M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: TheArchitect on July 09, 2015, 03:05:05 PM
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Hello All,
I have a laguna metallic green e30, that's a 318i convertible with a m42 engine that's stock and rebuilt. Id like to turbo this car. I'm not looking to race it, just cruse and a daily driver. I want around 200+ hp and run around 6-8 psi.
I've looked around and seen the ebay kits and I kinda don't want to risk putting junk in it. So I'm going to build as much as i can or recycle as much as I can. keep in mind i am looking for quality and I don't care for name brands. I just want good quality for a great price.
I found mishimoto for most of my items this intercooler
http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-universal-intercooler-small.html
need a rad so I thought this
http://www.mishimoto.com/bmw-e36-aluminum-performance-radiator-92-99.html
and I'll need a fan
http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-accessories-16-inch-fan.html
Im not sure how this all works or how to size things.
I know I want a oil cooled turbo, and I like what i hear about garret but they seem overly expensive.
Thoughts and experiences will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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Welcome to the 'club! I have almost the same car you do, just in M20 guise.
Unfortunately I have little info about turbo kits, but I'm in for the build when you get to it!
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Hi
Id use oem parts as much as possible, 6 cylinder radiator and fan from a air con equiped e30, as you know they will fit.
Also when choosing a inter cooler go as large as possible, better for engine and power.
Regards Rohan
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Darky do you have any more info on the 6 to 4 cyl rad swap? I was going to attempt this conversion next weekend, When i called mishi and told them i planed to convert it they said it shouldnt be a prob just figure a mounting spot for the expansion tank and the rest should be pretty much the same besides the top hose will go directly to the rad instead of the expansion tank which is what i was thinking.
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Hi tgoode
Yes I've done the swap myself, it all bolted up no problems except radiator overflow bottle.
You have to get a little creative there as there are no mounts in our cars.
I had to do it as I have done some driving in 45 deg c, and these cars don't like that much so I up sized plus dropped 10 deg with the fans in front of condenser coil. By changing the thermostat on the side of the radiator as well. Have not had a problem since.
Cheers Rohan
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Hello all and thank you for commenting. I was busy all week.
I thought the m42 rad was larger or more volume then the m20?
Also makes sense on the inter cooler makes it harder to get a decent priced inter cooler.
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Hi
The m42/m40 radiator is the same size but not the same cooling capacity as it has the radiator bottle included in it.
The m20 radiator requires a external overflow bottle.
Cheers
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Darky where did you mount your expansion tank? Were you able to use the stock length hoses or did you need longer ones? Also the top hose from the engine (right side of thermostat housing) that's connected to the neck of the expansion tank (m42) did you just connect that directly to the 6 cyl rad?
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Darky where did you mount your expansion tank? Were you able to use the stock length hoses or did you need longer ones? Also the top hose from the engine (right side of thermostat housing) that's connected to the neck of the expansion tank (m42) did you just connect that directly to the 6 cyl rad?
I see what you mean now. The only problem I have is your rad is for euro spec cars mines north american. also the hosing would have to be re worked to fit. I guess Id need to get a custom one then and solves my problem, big rad and big expansion tank.
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shot sorry about that I just noticed the picture was upside down. so yeah it would fit perfect just need to change how its mounted. but thats easy. thank you.
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Hi guys
The 2 inch (roughly) hose from the thermostat goes to the radiator, but you will need a new one due to it being required to attach to the radiator 3 inches across to the left.
The over flow goes to the expansion tank.
I used a e36 overflow bottle. Looks like a dozen clear tennis balls together mounted it to left hand guard.
The m20 oval overflow bottle cracks due to its shape.
The hose from the engine (1 inch) goes to the overflow as well.
Also there's a overflow from expansion tank out of engine bay 1/4 inch.
Cheers Rohan
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In regards to the original question, there is a guy Jake, who has developed a m42 kit. He posts as JakeB on r3v and his website is http://www.classicdaily.net/ here is his thread, he has some dyno results etc. seems like it's well built and well reviewed, it would probably meet your goals.
Here is the R3v thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=259174
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Thanks darky pretty much exactly what i was thinking !! Awesome.
When i saw almost no one makes an upgraded m42 rad i figured why not use a 6 cyl rad which is basically the same design. Its great to know some one else had this idea and has done it already with success!
Thanks again. To OP how is your swap coming along?
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In regards to the original question, there is a guy Jake, who has developed a m42 kit. He posts as JakeB on r3v and his website is http://www.classicdaily.net/ here is his thread, he has some dyno results etc. seems like it's well built and well reviewed, it would probably meet your goals.
Here is the R3v thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=259174
Thank you Nick I will have to look and read up more on it.
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Ok, I hope I make this clear enough so that people get the idea what I'm trying to do. hear goes.
So I have My m42 finally pulled out from the other car. I'd like to start building a turbo system for my car. Keep in mind its getting a tuck and shave. Everything around the fenders are moving to other places. Timing has been replaced on this engine, and i'm going to get new larger fuel injectors, ideally I was thinking i'd want 100-200 hp. is this possible with a stock clean engine.
I was wondering can I use the existing brake duct as my fresh air in, then have it merge with my return inter cooler line then through my air filter to my intake?
I am also wondering does anyone know of a decent air filter that is compact enough that would fit this 2" diameter piping that id be assembling. stock is to large and bulky. I also want it to connect to my maf sensor i think it is.
Also is there any rad inter cooler combos that have been built? or does everyone just fits each component on?
Another thing id like is the air intake for my turbo to get its air from the rain screen. which between the screen and the turbo will be this nice, compact and clean air filter. Has anyone done this?
Also what is a good turbo that's reliable low maintenance and least amount of moving parts. This is where i think i will be spending the bulk of the money but I don't want to buy brand new garret for $3000
Budget is about 1000 give or take based on how much a good turbo will cost.
I was thinking Mishimoto for rad inter cooler and fan. Anyone used these before?
Any thoughts pointers and wisdom is in need.
Thank you.
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Hi
First question where are you from? Europe?
So we can figure out what's locally available.
Secondly that turbo kit nick suggested is good won't break the bank and all the hassles are already sorted for you!
Because you don't need to turbo the engine to get in that power range in fact I'd say it's already there.
Was it running poorly?
Regards
Rohan
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Im in Toronto, Canada.
That be great kit for a dd, but I'm making a dd/ show car and its not exactly what I was thinking of. Im looking to make it clean compact and keep everything original.
No my engine is feisty, id say its almost the original 130hp. I want to be around 230 to 300 hp total.
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Hello,
Ive been reading around and see some people upgrade the internals and others do not. I was wondering if I was to upgrade the internals what would I need to do to secure 250-300hp on a stock m42 engine? Now the timing has been re done and a new head gasket was put in but I'm not sure of the specs and if it was paper. Now I'm not racing this car and this will be a dd car / show car.
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Hi
250 - 300 hp is possible, but certainly not as a daily driver. That's race with massive compression and high revs!
Unless you go forced induction.
200 hp is a far more realistic normally aspirated goal and that still takes abit of doing.
Cheers
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Hey Darky.
Why is 250hp not dd worth? is it just to much power at one time, drive ability?
And 200 hp is only 60 more hp, is it worth spending money to get that?
If that's the case why not get the 700$ ebay kit and then slowly swap out for quality parts. I understand with the ebay you pay for what you get and the quality and reliability will be awful.
I'm asking out of curiosity and sheer knowledge.
Thank you
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Ok for 250 hp or more normally aspirated
Lightened crank and flywheel, therefore idle will suck. No momentum and no air con while stationary it will stall when the compressor kicks in.
Oversized valves and head work probably make your idle worse.
Then there's 12:1 ratio that will be required, which puts a lot of strain on piston rings valve seals etc
Then there's itbs and camshafts! Worse again.
Not really a daily driver worth a dam.
My 2c anyway
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Ok for 250 hp or more normally aspirated
Lightened crank and flywheel, therefore idle will suck. No momentum and no air con while stationary it will stall when the compressor kicks in.
Oversized valves and head work probably make your idle worse.
Then there's 12:1 ratio that will be required, which puts a lot of strain on piston rings valve seals etc
Then there's itbs and camshafts! Worse again.
Not really a daily driver worth a dam.
My 2c anyway
Ok i get some of what your saying and Thank you.
So at max 100 hp increase. what Kind of turbo would be good for this? I like garret but there $$$$. Oh are a 100 hp turbos to small?
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I'd seriously go for the kit that has previously been mentioned, takes out all the hard work and is a nice dd car.
Have a look at the build thread anyway at least.
Unless your doing it to learn?
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I looked at the kit and I'm not a fan of some of the things on it. I want to build my own to building it the way I want it and look the way I want it to look also to take out the cost of there labour and markup.
I have recently took a turbo out of a 1988 ford thunder bird and the air filter. I'm looking to use it, but I'm concerned it might have to much boost around 12psi apparently online. Anyone use it? or know anything else about it. If I can use this turbo it will make my build very easy and if not maybe get one from a 1.9t vw.
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Hi
What's the engine capacity of the thunderbird?
Regards
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I had an '88 Turbo Coupe back in the day. That fracker was FAST!!
I embarrassed more than a few hot rodders with that little 2.3L.
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I had an '88 Turbo Coupe back in the day. That fracker was FAST!!
I embarrassed more than a few hot rodders with that little 2.3L.
Totally off-topic here...but...
I dated a gal who drove a Cougar XR7...that car was an eye-opener. Despite the pokey automatic it was devilishly fast. It even had acceptable handling. She routinely humiliated my poor little VW Golf. We'd go hunting for 5.0 Mustangs and Trans Ams in that car.
We now return to your previously-scheduled programming...
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Hi
12 psi is probably a bit much for standard engine 8 psi would be the most you could safely do in a daily driver.
But that has nothing to do with the turbo. That's the blow offs problem.
2.3 litre engine turbo will do but it might take a bit to spoil up. But in saying that if you only go to 8 psi or less that will be fine.
My 2c
Rohan
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apparently is 2300 cm2 its only 190 hp so that's why I'm wondering is psi related to the size of the turbo. like if your turbo is smaller and runs more boost does a bigger turbo have a lower boost? boost is the amount of air being forced into the air intake. Or am I wrong. http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ford_usa/thunderbird_9gen/thunderbird_9gen_turbo_coupe/1988.html
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Hi
Somethings off
S14 2.3 l 210 hp normally aspirated 1 atm 2.3 l capacity
Thunderbird 2.3l 190 hp forced induction 12 psi or 1.8 atm giving 4.1 l effective.
That's a quick and dirty way of doing this. But you should get the idea!
Regards Rohan
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I'm not sure this Is all new to me. But If the turbo is 12 psi and I've seen up to 15 on some sites, that's just to high for my engine. The T Bird is also a heavy car. I was thinking maybe a t3 from the mk 4 golfs might be a better fit. Anyone have any thoughts? I might be able to do the job better. Remember I only want to get up to 200hp On the car. The more I read the more I get confused.
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That would also work. But remember smaller turbos spin up quicker but don't through out air as fast.
Probably a better choice.
Is that kit looking good yet?
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That would also work. But remember smaller turbos spin up quicker but don't through out air as fast.
Probably a better choice.
Is that kit looking good yet?
I'll have to re look at it, I found The MK4 turbo used, to be about 250 From a scrap yard. I'm going to make the manifold my self out of stainless. I need to buy a rad anyways for my car so I will get the rad fan and intercooler from I think mishimoto and see if I can get a discount on a bundle.
I have the Intercooler turbo, and air intake from the t bird just wish I could use the tbird turbo. Then i just need to buy piping and the gages.
I will know more once I get the engine cleaned and painted. I will then see where and how the turbo will fit.
Thank you for your help and thoughts.
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Blow off valve, ecu, oil supply to turbo and possibly cooler?
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Yeah I have the oil supply just need to get a new pipe and tap into the oil pan. inter cooler I might get another one that longer and not as fat. Blow of valve is on the turbo. but theirs no control other then cutting or extending the arm.
Lets say i did use the t-bird turbo and say its at 12-15 psi, can I not just increase my intercooler volume to reduce the temperature. Or is it the pure pressure that i'm inducing into the engine and the increased fuel that will be the problem?