M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: E30J on November 20, 2013, 05:10:07 PM
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Hey guys,
New to the forum. Just bought an E30 318is and its currently not starting.. Seems to be getting spark but not sure about fuel.. I unplugged right before the fuel filter and turned the key but no fuel comes out, should it when i first turn the key?
Any other things to suggest checking?
The plug that plugs to the air filter is currently disconnected as the filter is not on.. guessing thats just an O2 sensor though and wouldn't stop the engine from starting.
Appreciate any and all help,
Thanks
J
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If you d/c'd the fuel line at the fuel filter, put a container under it and spin the crank. You should most likely have fuel. If not...could be fuel pump, fuel pump relay, or fuse. O2 sensor is on the passenger side and has nothing to do with the air filter. I am assuming when you say a plug in to the air filter is unplugged you are referring to the connector to the AFM. Hook it up. I am sure people more knowledgeable about this things will ring in shortly.
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If you d/c'd the fuel line at the fuel filter, put a container under it and spin the crank. You should most likely have fuel. If not...could be fuel pump, fuel pump relay, or fuse. O2 sensor is on the passenger side and has nothing to do with the air filter. I am assuming when you say a plug in to the air filter is unplugged you are referring to the connector to the AFM. Hook it up. I am sure people more knowledgeable about this things will ring in shortly.
yep did that and no fuel came out. will check the relay and fuse first. then if those are fine guess ill have to swap out the pump. Thanks
oh i would hook up the afm but its not there lol.. hope it will still run w/out it.. my guess is it will just might be a little rough.. My goal is to get the car running and if i cant.. time for a swap
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Jump the fuel pump relay terminals 30 & 87. Test the crank position sensor..should see about 680 ohms on pins 1 & 2. Report back to us.
The car will idle without the AFM, but it won't rev.
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Jump the fuel pump relay terminals 30 & 87. Test the crank position sensor..should see about 680 ohms on pins 1 & 2. Report back to us.
The car will idle without the AFM, but it won't rev.
fuel pump relay is under the black cover where there are 3 relays, correct?
Also i did the 'turn key to on, press gas pedal 5 times in 5 sec' and i keep getting just 1111, 1111, 1111, 1111 it keeps flashing that code and won't stop. tried disconnecting the battery doing it again and same thing.
How do i test the crank position sensor?
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Yep, FPR is under the firewall cover. The main relay and O2 heater relay are there too.
Test the resistance of the crank sensor in ohms with a normal multimeter. Even the cheapest $4 Harbor Freight multimeter will do.
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Jump the fuel pump relay terminals 30 & 87. Test the crank position sensor..should see about 680 ohms on pins 1 & 2. Report back to us.
The car will idle without the AFM, but it won't rev.
fuel pump relay is under the black cover where there are 3 relays, correct?
Also i did the 'turn key to on, press gas pedal 5 times in 5 sec' and i keep getting just 1111, 1111, 1111, 1111 it keeps flashing that code and won't stop. tried disconnecting the battery doing it again and same thing.
How do i test the crank position sensor?
There is no 1111 code. But you could be seeing 1444 which means no code. After doing the gas pedal thing, the light stays on steady and will then flash. After that it will start the code, with a pause in between.
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It blinks for 2.5 seconds then off for a short period then blinks again then the code starts but its just 'flash off flash off flash off flash off' then a short break then same code over and over. Also every light on the dash appears to be on also. Is there a way to reset all of this and possibly get a correct code reading?
P.s thanks for all the input guys. much appreciated. just want to try get her running
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Well...one thing I would tell you to do is to get a correct AFM hooked up before trying to get "stomp" codes. I am not saying that the "1111" is related but it would strike me that w/o the AFM in line that the DME is going to know something "ain't quite right". When I get home tomorrow, I will dc the AFM and try the stomp code test. Regardless, I am having trouble thinking that you will get this running without the AFM in place. I will also fire up my car and dc the AFM. Curious to see what it does. I thought I had done before and when it is disconnected it died. Could be wrong but won't know until tomorrow.
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One other thought...if you don't have the AFM/airbox in line, you are most likely to have open lines to the mess under the intake. This would equate to a massive vacuum leak. Which is not going to help your cause as far as trying to get it started. Try this...open the throttle body; squirt some either in there; try starting the engine. It should at least kick over. But I am still of the opinion that you are not going to have success without correct AFM in line.
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can you post video of the lights? Or maybe there is a video of the process on youtube. When you have the key in, position 2, all lights are suppose to be on. When you do the stomp, the CEL will flash but then will go dark for a few seconds, then the the code starts, with a small pause in between the 4 digits and a large pause between the next code and then back to start which is the CEL light on for few seconds to denote the start of the cycle.
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Roger that monty, will try get a video asap.
bigskyis i will also try find the arm/airbox but think the car would still start w/out it. and it would show that code plus others not just the same code over and over.. i could be wrong never done this before
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Jump the fuel pump relay terminals 30 & 87. Test the crank position sensor..should see about 680 ohms on pins 1 & 2. Report back to us.
The car will idle without the AFM, but it won't rev.
Tested both orange relays (heater and fuel I believe) and got nothing. Tested the white relay and I'm getting 1.600-1.799
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Actually I tested te white relay again and I'm getting 8.0+/- but stil nothin on the orange relays
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I meant to test the pigtails from the crank sensor. It comes up from the sensor to a plug near the intake manifold. You should see 680 ohms or so between pins 1 & 2. Don't test the cable going back to the computer/ECU/DME - you can severely damage it with the multimeter doing resistance or continuity tests. Only test for voltage on wires from the DME.
You can also make a couple of small jumper wires for testing. I leave them in the toolkit after I'm done, along with a tested spare main & fuel pump relay. I usually crimp two male spade connectors onto about 4" of 14 gauge wire to eliminate the fuel pump relay. For testing the main relay, crimp two wires into one spade so it makes a "Y" jumper.
To test the fuel pump and wiring, plug one spade into terminal #30 and the other end into term #87. When you turn on the key, you should hear the fuel pump running. If you don't hear the pump, pull the rear seat & the fuel pump access hatch and check the pump connector. They can loosen up over time, or even fall into the connector plug.
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Okay I jumped 87&30 from the relay and disconnected right before the fuel filter and I get no gas.. Checked the pump under the seat and everything seems fine.. Can I test the pump w/ it jn the tank by touching the battery terminals to the 2 nuts on the pump itself? Guessing one is hot and one is cold
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You had the key turned on, right? Also make sure you're testing the correct relay. It'll have a thick red wire to feed the pump, then a green/violet wire heading off to fuse 11. That powers the pump.
You can test the pump directly. IIRC it is polarized, be sure you put positive to the terminal where the green/violet wire plugs in. Might have a brown grounding wire off the other pump terminal.
The four nuts that are there are for the fuel level sender. The pump housing twists out as one unit - has no bolts.
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Okay got some video and a few pics. Tried jumping the fuel relay, with the key on, and got nothing.. then hard wired directly from the battery to the violet connector and got nothing then tried the green and also nothing.
Tested both relays and they don't seem to be getting any feed through them.. looks like everything is shot
will post some pics when i figure it out
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(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/photo_zps418d87cc.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/candyjunkie518/media/photo_zps418d87cc.jpg.html)
Heres a picture of how i wired the fuel pump directly to the battery
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Heres a video of what happens when i do the press gas 5 times in 5 sec
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/th_Video-2_zps8a38c2f4.jpg) (http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/Video-2_zps8a38c2f4.mp4)
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Heres part 2. same vid just wouldn't let me email myself the whole thing
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/th_Video_zpsd3268607.jpg) (http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/Video_zpsd3268607.mp4)
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(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/photo_zps418d87cc.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/candyjunkie518/media/photo_zps418d87cc.jpg.html)
Heres a picture of how i wired the fuel pump directly to the battery
That's your fuel level sensor. Pull the other connector and with the key turned to "On" check for power: pin 2 (green/violet) is hot, pin 1 (brown) is ground.
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(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a502/candyjunkie518/photo_zps418d87cc.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/candyjunkie518/media/photo_zps418d87cc.jpg.html)
Heres a picture of how i wired the fuel pump directly to the battery
That's your fuel level sensor. Pull the other connector and with the key turned to "On" check for power: pin 2 (green/violet) is hot, pin 1 (brown) is ground.
whoops.. alright will check the other one thanks
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You're welcome. If it turns out to be a bad pump you'll have to pull the sensor out first in order to pull the rest of the assembly.
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You're welcome. If it turns out to be a bad pump you'll have to pull the sensor out first in order to pull the rest of the assembly.
Tested the correct pump lol and still not getting any fuel. Looks like i need a fuel pump and new relay. Will change those then hopefully crank her up! If not, ill be back lol.
Thanks all for the help!
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Just an observation...although I am having troubles with my e30 318is...it will start and idle. If I disconnect my AFM it shuts down immediately. Granted, you might have fuel pump issues...based on my observation I am willing to bet you won't get it started without the AFM in place. Just my .02 worth. Good luck.
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Just an observation...although I am having troubles with my e30 318is...it will start and idle. If I disconnect my AFM it shuts down immediately. Granted, you might have fuel pump issues...based on my observation I am willing to bet you won't get it started without the AFM in place. Just my .02 worth. Good luck.
Cool thanks. Guess i will find one and hook it up.
Cant seem to find the relay i need anywhere though. Will put the new fuel pump in then jump the relay and see if she fires up
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The fuel pump relay is just a normal 4-pin Bosch 30amp relay. You can find compatible relays at most auto stores. The orange Bosch relay is optimal (has some voltage protection resistors IIRC) but for a temporary fix you can use any 4-pin relay. If it has four terminals marked 30, 85, 86, and 87 it'll work.
The wiper or fog light relay in the fuse box is good for a roadside quick fix. The main relay has five pins, they're a bit harder to find.
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The fuel pump relay is just a normal 4-pin Bosch 30amp relay. You can find compatible relays at most auto stores. The orange Bosch relay is optimal (has some voltage protection resistors IIRC) but for a temporary fix you can use any 4-pin relay. If it has four terminals marked 30, 85, 86, and 87 it'll work.
The wiper or fog light relay in the fuse box is good for a roadside quick fix. The main relay has five pins, they're a bit harder to find.
Okay thanks. Unfortunately I live on an island and I've been to every auto store down here and can not find the 4 pin orange bosch one. No one even has an off brand to match it up.. I will take out the fog light one and give that a try thanks for that
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Okay thanks. Unfortunately I live on an island and I've been to every auto store down here and can not find the 4 pin orange bosch one. No one even has an off brand to match it up.. I will take out the fog light one and give that a try thanks for that
I can send you one for the price of postage. Let me know.
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Okay thanks. Unfortunately I live on an island and I've been to every auto store down here and can not find the 4 pin orange bosch one. No one even has an off brand to match it up.. I will take out the fog light one and give that a try thanks for that
I can send you one for the price of postage. Let me know.
Okay thanks man. Theres a small junk yard w/ 2 E30's here i will see if he has any i can grab.. HAve been busy lately haven't had time to put the pump in and test it but will take a wack at it today.
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Folks, we have lift off! ;D
Changed the pump, jumped the relay and boom! Fuel lines blew gas was every where! Lol changed those and tried again and cranked right up!!
Only let it run for a little while though due to old oil but it ran! No AFM either ;D :D
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Awesome!
Change that oil, button up the relay, and call it a day.