M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: bbarnumboy on December 05, 2010, 04:31:43 PM
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I am currently doing an itb setup, with cams and the lighter 325 flywheel.
Thinking of fabricating up a twinscrew supercharger or possibly a roots. The system will be intercooled with a A2W core. Either way with this kind of setup, what should my limit be for Whp?
the engine is a 1992 production E36 M42. Obviously it is going to breathe alot better than a stock m42 since i have gone ITB and cammed. I know some people say approximately 10psi max and or 200WHP? Is This about correct?
I just dont want to push this motor too close to the limits and i am not as familiar with its maximum capabilities. There are so many mixed feelings on it. I hear the m44 can handle more? someone clear these rumors up for me please?
Thanks in advance
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Some more info on my engine.
My engine has a brand new head with now 8k miles on it. Multi layer steel head gasket by cometic, ARP head studs, The whole timing chain system has been replaced with brand new OEM components. AC has been deleted and i am running a 6puck Spec clutch. Engine compression is perfect with little to no oil burning on the stock bottom end.
just some info to show my engine is healthy and the head gasket is capable of handling the boost and the head studs so head lifting will not be an issue.
I think i will be going with the Warchip and dyno tuning the engine. I know theres tons of debate on the whole non standalone thing and the warchip and piggybacks lacking the ability for timming adjustments. Bare with me though. Tons of people run blowers with piggybacks successfully. I mean there are tons of downing atlanta supercharger systems in use out there running on the stock tuning system and chip, successfully. Not wishing to turn this into a debate of tuning by any means. I always see where that ends up going lol.
Just looking for some helpful input oh my engines HP capabilities.
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I hope this goes well for you...I have the DASC on my 95 M42, and would eventually like more from it and would probably go the WAR Chip route for ease and the ability to retain the stock system.
Even with your new head and gasket and whatnot, I'd still stick to around 10psi and seeing how it runs there for awhile. Remember, the CR on M42's is 10:1 which isn't exactly ideal for boost.
What I would do if my motor popped would be to lower the CR, crank the boost to about 14-15psi, shoot W/I into the system AFTER the charger, tune it, and have a blast.
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I am currently doing an itb setup, with cams and the lighter 325 flywheel.
Thinking of fabricating up a twinscrew supercharger or possibly a roots. The system will be intercooled with a A2W core. Either way with this kind of setup, what should my limit be for Whp?
the engine is a 1992 production E36 M42. Obviously it is going to breathe alot better than a stock m42 since i have gone ITB and cammed. I know some people say approximately 10psi max and or 200WHP? Is This about correct?
I just dont want to push this motor too close to the limits and i am not as familiar with its maximum capabilities. There are so many mixed feelings on it. I hear the m44 can handle more? someone clear these rumors up for me please?
Thanks in advance
i thought the m42 was the better engine for boost and 10psi with throttle bodies i would think you would get a little more than 200whp more 220/230 with that spec,sounds good what your doing
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(superpotter80) i just keep seeing things and hearing things and was wanting clarification. so i dont even know exactly.
(Hodge)
I really am starting to wish i did a head gasket spacer when i did the head. I did not plan on going boosted at the time. I actually was going to increase the Compression, but feared interference with the valves and pistons by going with a thinner gasket and detonation on top of that too.
- What WHP are you hitting currently with that DASC? Was it worth every penny? What is the current boost level it produces for you?
I think 200+whp would be plenty. i am looking for some sort of reliability out of this as well so not looking to over do it. I need to open up the exhaust as well.
Definately want a twin screw because they produce alot less heat as well as More stable boost. your car is sex by the way :-)
After the tune i will take it back to the dyno i originally had this engine dyno'd on 2 years ago. I had a cracked head and it ran 117whp. So right where it should be. Now with the new head and mods, will be great to see the increase.
(Hodge)
Have you ever had any problems with your setup currently? any detonating issues etc? care to show some pictures of the install?
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I don't know my whp right now...I have to guess around 170-180 or so with the way it feels. It was worth it for sure, to have everything already there.
I have had a few issues, but small stupid things that were fairly easily corrected. For instance, the L bracket supplied to mount the RRFPR to the head was fine, but the tiny bolt used to hold the RRFPR itself broke 2 or 3 times. I finally said forget it, and relocated the RRFPR right under the AFM/air filter, and made my own steel bracket to hold it down. It's been much better and fine ever since. That's about it though to be honest. I had a crap idle issue, and I narrowed it down to the ICV. I didn't want to spend the money for another one of those stupid things, so I got a slightly longer bolt to hold the throttle open and see idle at around 900rpm. Actually, this car has always had an occasional crap idle, and more recently it had started to either nearly die or just die when I didn't have any pressure on the throttle.
This really helps with the A/C on, since I also have a UUC 11.5# aluminum flywheel and e34M5 clutch, and it tends to make all kinds of fun rattling noises at idle, that are now nearly gone with the higher idle. Overall, it really has never run better than it has recently. Though with track events coming up next year, I think it's time to replace some things, and just get done with basic maintenance things (fluids, etc) that I need to do anyway.
I guess boost is around 7.5-8psi, and actually have a vac/boost gauge on order and gauge pod as well. I will also be getting a wideband o2 and gauge to monitor that.
Oh another issue that is unrelated to the DASC itself was that my IE polyurethane motor mounts outright failed on the car, so I went with OEM Lemfoerder parts, so I don't have to worry about it anymore :D
PS: Here are a few older shots...beofre I did a few other things (like relocate the RRFPR for instance). Sorry they are terrible cell phone pics. I desperately need to clean the engine bay up when I get a chance.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/042909_16412.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/042909_16411.jpg)
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Does that supercharger support enough flow to pull all the way to redline without choking? what the hell is an rrfpr?
so which flywheels actually will fit this motor that are way lighter? that will compliment my spec clutch very well.
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I just googled it. is that even necessary since i will be going with a custom tune on this engine?
do you know where to buy the #40 injectors i always hear everyone talking about as an upgrade for flow?
how has your fuel pump stood up to the task?
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I doubt you need any tune if you stay low boost (10psi and under).
RRFPR is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator that adjusts (further adjusts) fuel pressure so that the motor doesn't run lean. If anything, I think I run a little rich. Will find out soon enough anyway.
My car has never backfired since the DASC install. It runs wonderfully. It sings all the way to 6300rpm.
Oh I found a more recent pic...relocated RRFPR, TMS camber plates, etc.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/Mobile%20Uploads/0717001925-1.jpg)
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nice work. well i am running individual throttle bodies and cams too, deff gonna need a tune.
any videos with pulls?
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I'd get a WAR chip for tune then.
I have this video from an auto-x awhile back...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/th_MOV01437.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/?action=view¤t=MOV01437.mp4)
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so are there no numbers out there that rein true? max capability numbers? how about some numbers out there that people are running all the time on stock internals, boosted.
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On stock internals, people with M44's used to use NickG tuning and run up to 15psi on stock internals, tune, injectors, water injection, etc..but there never was such a thing for us M42'ers. I think that would yield about 240-250whp..but I really don't know for sure.
With a built F/I M42 you could run 15 easy and then some. But that would cost alot of money.
You might be looking in the wrong place for alot of power man. Getting alot of power from M42's is extremely costly..moreso than it would be to swap in an S52 and do an OBDI swap on that and already have 250whp for much less. Take the 318 for what it is; alot of fun, lighter, very tossable chassis with a tiny motor. That being said, my brother can still keep up with E36M3's in our chapter's auto-x's, and he is right there with a 318ti with an MM 2.1L M44. And ti's are a good 200lbs lighter.
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yeah, i will not cross to the dark side. I like my m42 dont want huge numbers, just wanna make sure i dont go too far
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Just dont go past 10psi and you should be fine.
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I got 170 whp on my 1994 m42 DASC last year. (first dyno ever)
On the track I found it slotted in behind the M's but ahead of the rest of the e36's.
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I don't know my whp right now...I have to guess around 170-180 or so with the way it feels. It was worth it for sure, to have everything already there.
I have had a few issues, but small stupid things that were fairly easily corrected. For instance, the L bracket supplied to mount the RRFPR to the head was fine, but the tiny bolt used to hold the RRFPR itself broke 2 or 3 times. I finally said forget it, and relocated the RRFPR right under the AFM/air filter, and made my own steel bracket to hold it down. It's been much better and fine ever since. That's about it though to be honest. I had a crap idle issue, and I narrowed it down to the ICV. I didn't want to spend the money for another one of those stupid things, so I got a slightly longer bolt to hold the throttle open and see idle at around 900rpm. Actually, this car has always had an occasional crap idle, and more recently it had started to either nearly die or just die when I didn't have any pressure on the throttle.
This really helps with the A/C on, since I also have a UUC 11.5# aluminum flywheel and e34M5 clutch, and it tends to make all kinds of fun rattling noises at idle, that are now nearly gone with the higher idle. Overall, it really has never run better than it has recently. Though with track events coming up next year, I think it's time to replace some things, and just get done with basic maintenance things (fluids, etc) that I need to do anyway.
I guess boost is around 7.5-8psi, and actually have a vac/boost gauge on order and gauge pod as well. I will also be getting a wideband o2 and gauge to monitor that.
Oh another issue that is unrelated to the DASC itself was that my IE polyurethane motor mounts outright failed on the car, so I went with OEM Lemfoerder parts, so I don't have to worry about it anymore :D
PS: Here are a few older shots...beofre I did a few other things (like relocate the RRFPR for instance). Sorry they are terrible cell phone pics. I desperately need to clean the engine bay up when I get a chance.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/042909_16412.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/042909_16411.jpg)
Are there any significant differences between the DASC install on an M42 vs. an M44? I'm going to be installing a DASC from an M44 onto my M42 and would like to find out as much information on this as possible.
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There was a great article from Grassroots Motorsports awhile back. They did the install. I know the fuel rail is changed among other things.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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Man, I remember salivating over the DASC kit. I bet it is a lot of fun!