COP Brackets: Your Preferences?

[bmwman91]

8/10/07 Update
I am presently in process of making 8 more brackets. Thus far, 7 are claimed. Anyone want #8?

I also updated the technical drawing for the plate, cutting it down to 1 page with more clean dimensions. It is here:
http://www.e30tuner.com/coilonplug/M42_COP_BRACKET_A1.PDF
End 8/10/07 Update

[mikesjo]

What does that do exactly?

[bmwman91]

The bracket allows you to move the ignition coils directly over the spark plugs. This eliminates the plug wires which are costly to replace, and increase the chance of cross-arcing which can cause misfires.

I guess I should also mention, this bracket is NOT for the stock M42 coils. It is for this type:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=2310

If you are referring to the arm thingy, that is for you to secure the harness to so that engine vibrations do not cause the wire to undergo a fatigue failure at the connectors.

[FL318is]

I have got alot to learn. I won't even tell you what I thought they were for!

[haledj]

I have got alot to learn. I won't even tell you what I thought they were for!
I want to know... I didn't know what they were for either:)

[bmwman91]

Yeah I kinda wan to know too. Embarassing n00b thoughts or BAN! Lol, I hope I don't turn this into Bimmerforums OT.

[D. Clay]

$25 for those coils is an incredible price. Is that the regular price from Turner?

[nickmpower]

thats for one used coil i think

[bmwman91]

It is $25 for one. They are used ones from cars that got upgraded coil packs I believe. Seeing as how our coils are 15 years old and generally still work fine, I have no qualms about buying these newer used ones.

[sheepdog]

Does this require wire changes or anything?

[bmwman91]

Well, you COULD leave the harness untrimmed, but I think it would look shabby, and possibly be a hazard. Though a little bit of a pain, the writeup I posted in the first post covers the process.

Repeated:
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/articles_condis1.php

[tim_s]

bmwman, these still available? been abroad for a month and not checked on here! can the plastic BMW cover go over these? can you send me a bracket to the uk? im in no rush as have a million and one things to do before this but wouldnt want to miss out!

[twinpop171]

Nice!!!
BMWMan, I wish you had these available before I dropped $85 on new plug wires!
BTW will the BavAuto HP coils bolt to the bracket too? That's what I 've got.
Dan.

[e9nine]

Awesome write up man! Please correct me if I am wrong but is this an accurate summary of this process?

-- Buy 4 used coil packs from TMS
-- Buy your adapter plate
-- Disassemble the stock harness at connectors
-- Lengthen the harness
-- Reassemble the connectors
-- Trim harness
-- Wrap finalized harness in heat shrink & Secure harness @ cylinder 4.

[bmwman91]

Awesome write up man! Please correct me if I am wrong but is this an accurate summary of this process?

-- Buy 4 used coil packs from TMS
-- Buy your adapter plate
-- Install bracket & Coils
-- Cut outer sheathing on harnesses as needed to reach coils
-- Disassemble the stock harness at connectors (1 at a time)
-- Place wire along intended path, leaving enough that the wire can reach past the coil's connector port
-- Shorten the harness
-- Reassemble the connector
-- Wrap finalized harness in heat shrink* & Secure harness @ cylinder 4

*Heat shrink tubing could work, but tends to get very stiff and brittle. I opted for some 3M Super 88 electrical tape (or any other rated to 210C+).

Corrected :p

[D. Clay]

On the wiring, I had a thought along the lines of:
1) taking the harness apart farther away from the motor
2) attaching the connectors to the coils and securing at the rear of coil bracket
3) taking slack out of wires by looping farther away from the motor - hopefully out of sight
4) recovering wiring harness.
You wouldn't have to mess with the pins in the connector plugs. Not for sure if this will work, but it sounds good.
If not too late, make mine with the tab and bracket as one piece - the bottom one in the first picture of both types. If not, that's OK too.

[bmwman91]

I really did not want to hack up my harness, but the problem with just looping stuff is that the harness's 4 sub harnesses are in pairs, each the same length. The lengths are not staggered as would be nice in this case, and since the main part of it goes into a HIGE sheath with other stuff right before the firewall, cutting that up is not a great idea. I guess with a bunch of work you could reroute stuff and maybe run the wires up along the top of the valve cover or something. Heck, I encourage alternate ideas!

[D. Clay]

I'm just lazy!

[bmwman91]

bmwman, these still available? been abroad for a month and not checked on here! can the plastic BMW cover go over these? can you send me a bracket to the uk? im in no rush as have a million and one things to do before this but wouldnt want to miss out!
As of now, the plastic cover will not fit on like it originally did...the coils are too high. Something COULD be done to fasten them on top of the threaded studs if they were lengthened, but I have not begn working on that yet.

Nice!!!
BMWMan, I wish you had these available before I dropped $85 on new plug wires!
BTW will the BavAuto HP coils bolt to the bracket too? That's what I 've got.
Dan.
If they were M42 stock replacements, then no, probably not. If they look like the round ones in the link I posted above, then yes, they are good to go. The link is THIS (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=2310).

[Euro Nation]

Prior to wire sorting:

http://www.euronationmotorsport.com/misc/cop.jpg

[bmwman91]

Haha stealing my thunder, eh?

[asubimmer]

crap I thought the bmw plastic thing still would fit...ohh well

no biggy

[BrandC]

I've got spare E36 M50 coilpacks, need another guinea pig William?

I was just about to order new wires too! Good timing? If E36 coils work, I'll take the test-fit one...just let me know how much shipped to 94403.

[Euro Nation]

Haha stealing my thunder, eh?

Shhhh... people are supposed to think I got the bracket from you.

http://www.euronationmotorsport.com/misc/cop2.jpg

[cutncheese]

I would love one of these, personally I wouldn't have a preference between the detachable or normal one. I say whatever ones going to be cheaper to make.

[bmwman91]

I've got spare E36 M50 coilpacks, need another guinea pig William?

I was just about to order new wires too! Good timing? If E36 coils work, I'll take the test-fit one...just let me know how much shipped to 94403.

The E36 m50 ones are the same as the m42 stockers, and I tried those first. They CAN be fit in there, but I was not satisfied with the connector fitment. The connectors must be put on the coils BEFORE they are installed in there as there is not enough room to slip the connectors on, for one. Second, the wires coming out of the connectors are jammed at a very tight exit-angle/small radius against the next coil pack.

I do not know it is because of my engineering schooling, or just because I have had my car break down at very inopportune times due to me half-assing things back when I was a teenager (saying that makes me feel old...I guess it WAS quite a while ago!), but reliability is my #1 concern, performance second. My other complaint with using stockers is that all four of the original mounting holes in the ferrous core have to be lopped off, and unless you have access to a welder (lucky for me I do), the iron slats can get 'frayed.' That may have an impact on the energy transfer to the secondary windings inside the coil if it gets bad enough. Cutting all of the mounting holes off is a pain anyway.

I am not saying they cannot work. I only experimented with them for a little while, and when I was turned on to the smaller Bremi units I decided to go the easier route. With proper reinforcement/support for the coil harness wires, the stockers are probably OK to use. I know that a lot more folks would be interested in this if the stockers could be used. Perhaps in the coming weeks I will come up with a bracket for those, but the buyer better be comfortable enough with a hack-saw to chop up the OE coils!

Initially, I had not planned to sell any brackets for this...just do the conversion, hack-saw brackets and make the plans public. Well, it turns out that doing a GOOD job required me to use the Bridgeport mill in my garage...something most folks do not have. So, after seeing that a lot of folks wanted this stuff I decided to make some kits & sell them for the cost of material + a little $ for the ~2 hours it takes me to make a nice bracket. I have PDF files of the brackets' dimensions, and all are welcome to have a look. I have a feeling that I will probably be making almost all of them for people though...unless you have a Bridgeport, or know how to write some simple G-code & have access to a CNC machine. "Real" machinists' time usually goes for a good $80+ per hour if you want to have one made by a shop.

Anyway, if and when I have a kit made up for the stockers I will be sure to let everyone know. The hardware is going to cost more than the round-coil one FYI (not TOO much more, but it will be more). It is going to be more pieces and more of my time (which I have little enough of!). I still hold that the smaller round-coil setup is a better one.

Bracket Dwawing:
http://www.e30tuner.com/coilonplug/M42_COP_BRACKET_A1.PDF

EDITED:
New and improved drawing.

[D. Clay]

I have an old boring mill (part owner and it still sits 98% of the time) and would have to do that manually. More than 2 hours for sure.
Checked out your site and noticed the timing chain "grunch" Did you have any sign things were going south before the front cover was broken? I'd rather catch it before then as it's an expensive part. $75 at local salvage yard and about $300 new.

[bmwman91]

I have an old boring mill (part owner and it still sits 98% of the time) and would have to do that manually. More than 2 hours for sure.
Checked out your site and noticed the timing chain "grunch" Did you have any sign things were going south before the front cover was broken? I'd rather catch it before then as it's an expensive part. $75 at local salvage yard and about $300 new.

Well, my mistake was NOT checking the lower pan for metal bits. Bolts probably won't get in there, but shattered bearing shells can and WILL. Check this out for some details.
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/my318is_pic_oilfailure.php
I guess this is probably what you were looking at though. There was no indication of something being sucked in until the engine died & the oil pressure light came on on an expressway near my house. If there is any timing case noise, I would just rebuild it all. I have done it a few times on 2 cars now, and it is not too bad of a job. Pulling the timing case & reinstalling it with the profile gasket is hard, but doable without removing the head. 1000 miles later all is good...no leaks anywhere.

If anyone wants to borrow a crank-locking tool lemme know. Shipping there & back is your dime though, and prolly at least $10 each way! Still, cheaper than renting the 'real' tool!

[sheepdog]

I am dealing with the same situation right now (shelled pump).

I did an oil change less than 5000 miles previously, and the oil was clean. In fact I had just replaced the steering rack, tie rod ends and had an alignment, the car was running tip top when it went. Came around a corner full throttle, and was coming back down, as soon as the motor slowed to 4k the engine sound changed as the oil light came on. I had the engine killed within 1/4 of a second. Only reason I got it that fast was I was planning on checking my pan for bolts that weekend after having seen Febi's engine, so I was half expecting a problem. Just not this.


I suspect the only way you will probably know something is going wrong is by pulling the valve cover and inspecting the chain and cam sprockets. They will show wear. Look for cracks in the chain rollers and very sharp cam sprockets. My sprockets were so worn the tips had curled back a touch (like a hook).

If your chain is/was really noisey before doing the tensioner, check your chain.

[bmwman91]

Sheepster, you get your pump/timing case rebuilt yet?

[sheepdog]

Sheepster, you get your pump/timing case rebuilt yet? Ahh, well... no.

I have been busy, plus the bolts holding the trans to the oil pan are frozen in place. I have almost ripped the head off one, and have been contemplating options as well as soaking it with RB rustbuster to loosen it up. I think in the end, at least one, is going to have to be removed with a grinder and vice grips once the pan is loose. Pretty much sure I can do this without lifting the engine. I am just goig to drop the upper pan a 1/2in and slde in the new gasket.

Everything is ready go back in place once I get those last 3 bolts. Just finding time is the problem. Oh and order the oil pickup, I missed that on the parts order I made.

Once that is done, I get to look forward to doing an auto-to-manual conversion on the Miata.. yay! Too many projects too little time and money.

[bmwman91]

Haha, yes time & money are waay too scarce. Yeah, pulling the upper pan was not necessary to get the job DONE, but I am the sort that likes to blast every last nut & bolt with degreaser & have everything nice & clean like new. I was also paranoid about more metal tidbits hiding in there, although it would be highly unlikely to find them all the way up there. Good luck man! Take pics of the Miata project, too. My neighbor had one and it was fun to work on/drive.

[mcfir7]

is there gainin usisng bremi agaisnt bosch coil?

i m using a e36 m42,comes wit a coil pack 4 coil in one pack.

can i mod to this?is there any gain from mine to this?

[mcfir7]

mmm

[m42 fan]

OK, I know I'm late to the party on this one (along with the MAF conversion), but you can count me IN as well.

Any updates on how this is going? just wondering

Brian

[tim_s]

quick question, whats wrong with the n42 style cops? look like they'd fit better...

[D. Clay]

quick question, whats wrong with the n42 style cops? look like they'd fit better...
Is that a typo - n42 instead of M42.
If not, what is an N42?

[tim_s]

nope! do you not get it in the states? 318ci valvetronic engine... google it dude! the COPs have a really small head so look like they would fit our valve cover much better...

[D. Clay]

realoem.com shows it to be a Euro model. BMAParts.com shows the 318 ending in '99 in the US. Maybe some of the Bimmophiles know the scoop on this, knows a source for this part, and has tried it. The N42 is a nice little motor with balance shafts etc. and won some awards for BMW.

[2002maniac]

quick question, whats wrong with the n42 style cops? look like they'd fit better...

The connectors are different IIRC. You would have to put new connectors on the harness.

[tim_s]

The connectors are different IIRC. You would have to put new connectors on the harness.
yup, is no major drama though! im more interested in the fundamental fitment, boot length, coil dwell etc, just seems like it may potentially be better than chopping up the later M5x coils as its smaller and should fit the valve cover better. I don't yet know if they're 3 or 2 wire coils though, which may be of concern if you're running motronic - it doesn't really matter to me (running MS)

[bmwman91]

Are these the coils that have threaded bodies and are secured by that rather than by a set of small bolts? Fitment would be interesting as they might be facing the wrong way, making it really hard to get a connector on there.

I think they would have to be 3-pin connectors. The primary couil needs a + & -, and the secondary has 1 pin for output and is "grounded" through the spark plug.

[D. Clay]

I finally got around to putting my bmwman91 bracket on. It was a piece of cake - went right on. Still looking at wiring and cover stuff.

[MustPayDaddy]

hey bmwman, do you got any more of these left? looking into doin this mod sometime soon.

[nickmpower]

yeah i need one too

[D. Clay]

I bought a roll of .25" PVC electrical tubing. It's similar to the stuff on the first 3-4" of the connectors at the coils. It makes for a neater installation as it eliminates all of that electrical tape.
Anyway, I had to buy 100' roll. Way more than I need.It takes about 6 feet to do a COP upgrade. You do have to do the plug ends per the following to get the wires inside the tubing.
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/articles_condis1.php
So, if anyone would like some, I'll send 6' to you for the mailing cost.
This what it looks like - 1/4 inch diameter:
494

[bmwman91]

Sweet man, glad it worked out well. That tubing is a good idea...the tape is not the neatest looking.

I will get around to making more soon. Work has been owning me the past couple months.

[MustPayDaddy]

lookin forward to it.. D. Clay youll be hearing from me as well once bmwman starts fabin again

[asubimmer]

my coils are on the way :) But I bought them in a set of 6, so I have two extras lol

[AL GReeNeRy]

why a set of 6? did you get them from TMS? at least you got 2 extra in case one blows out or somethin... :crosses fingers:

[asubimmer]

lol yeah its good to have spares I guess. The guy I bought them from would only sell as a set of 6 :(

I still haven't decided if I should keep them or try to sell them. I guess it boils down to if someone needs 2....

[bmwman91]

Use the last 2 to make a uuhhhhhh taser?

:D

[asubimmer]

hahaha I do have some extra wire, maybe some sort of security system?!?! shock the heck outta someone lolz

[AL GReeNeRy]

hook it up to your alarm and door handles :eek:

ultimate anti theft!!!

[asubimmer]

my coils should be here today...

is it a bad idea to put them on w/out the bracket? It wouldn't be long term but I really want to get them on and I need to make sure they work.

[D. Clay]

Wouldn't hurt just for a minute to make sure it will run. I wouldn't drive it that way. The weight and alignment of the coils would all be on the spark plug sockets.

[D. Clay]

Here's a pic of the completed COP. I am in the process of trying to clean up 16 years of neglect in the engine compartment. I tried to do the Bosch connectors per bmwman91's write up and realized I was going to screw it up. I cut the wires and reconnected them where they come out from the firewall. It was easier to slip the PVC tube on and I didn't have to mess with the coil connectors. I did find out the hard way that the shielding on the big black wire will ground the black wire inside the smaller sheath causing a dead miss. Next painting the intake and winning the cosmoline wars.
533

[nickmpower]

could i get one of these by the 8th? also, would anyone like to split a v8 set of bavautos high performance coils with me?

[AL GReeNeRy]

Here's a pic of the completed COP. I am in the process of trying to clean up 16 years of neglect in the engine compartment. I tried to do the Bosch connectors per bmwman91's write up and realized I was going to screw it up. I cut the wires and reconnected them where they come out from the firewall. It was easier to slip the PVC tube on and I didn't have to mess with the coil connectors. I did find out the hard way that the shielding on the big black wire will ground the black wire inside the smaller sheath causing a dead miss. Next painting the intake and winning the cosmoline wars.
533

when you say you cut the wires from the firewall, did you just solder/crimp/heatshrink them back together or what did you do?

[D. Clay]

when you say you cut the wires from the firewall, did you just solder/crimp/heatshrink them back together or what did you do?
I cut them in groups of three - for one coil at a time so I wouldn't cross them. I put numbered labels on the original coils on the fender apron, the wires and connectors to them, and the plug wires so I could keep track of everything.
I removed the plastic cover on the right side of the firewall so the splices would be covered:
534
I used plain old butt connectors but it would have been better to solder them.
535

[Alpine003]

I used plain old butt connectors but it would have been better to solder them.


Nice job but good thing you live in Tx since butt connectors don't last very long around where I live.

I have an extra set of factory coils from my previous '98 M3 if anyone is interested. Make offer.

[rob_e30]

Okay, I need one of these plates.

[AL GReeNeRy]

lol get in line...

[nickmpower]

has anyone bought one they dont need? if so i do!

[asubimmer]

has anyone bought one they dont need? if so i do!
you do need one, they are great :cool:

[bmwman91]

Hey guys, I really do not think I will have a chance to make more for a loong time. Between working a fulltime job, and spending most nights up late working on the MAF converter, there is no time for these. If you look in post #26 I provided technical drawings for these. You can feel free to print them and go to a local machinist with them. Sorry, life has been busy!

[Gunni]

how much time are you spending on this maf conversion?
how many mafs have you tried out?
Some work without need for ecu chip adjustments

[bmwman91]

Too much.
Thus far, 2 successfully, 2 not successfully.
This one is plug-n-play. Which other ones are? I looked around and did not find any others for the M42?

[D. Clay]

If you look in post #26 I provided technical drawings for these. You can feel free to print them and go to a local machinist with them. Sorry, life has been busy!
There you go! It's probably as easy to make six as one. Each time you get setup for an operation just start swapping pieces.
I am now becoming motivated to solder the connections where I shortened the wires and to take the intake off and paint it too. Then the coolant - vacuum hose simplification.
What is it with these cars anyway. My wife calls it an obsession and says that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I tell her that it's better than a number of other bad habits and "obsessions" that I could have.

[bmwman91]

Well, I HATE moving the piece once I start working on it. I zero everythign to one corner then do all the op's in relative coordinates from there. Swapping between ops would be a pain. I thought about trying to stack like 3 or 4 at a time, but was worried about stuff flying around when using the hole saw.

[2002maniac]

getting these things cut with a laser or waterjet would be the best solution.

emachineshop.com can be cheap if you have more than 10 parts made.

[bmwman91]

Wow, laser or water cutting...fancy stuff! I was just using a mill with a Sony digital redout and usually maintained +/- 10 microns!

[m42 fan]

I sense a group buy comming on! count me in, provided the price is reasonable

Brian

[2002maniac]

Wow, laser or water cutting...fancy stuff! I was just using a mill with a Sony digital redout and usually maintained +/- 10 microns!

yes, but milling sheetmetal is time consuming to setup and would be expensive to have done professionally.

Laser or water can be quite cheap.

[bmwman91]

Aaah, I suppose I could see that. The stuff I use is 3"x3/16" (4.8mm) thick...it is more flat bar than sheet.

[rob_e30]

Can you please confirm the thickness of the Gen II bracket? I've seen you quote both 4mm and 4.8mm and I want to be sure I get the correct stuff!

[bmwman91]

Well, 4.8mm is the conversion. All I can get around here is stuff in English units. So, the exact stuff is 3/16" but if you live in the rest of the world, 4mm or 5mm is OK. No thinner than 4mm though or it will be too flexible.

[D. Clay]

Is anyone going to to run with this? I will check into having some made up if no one else is going to do it. I have access to a mill and I'm sure there's someone here would like to pick up a little cash. I would prefer some one else do it. I already have the conversion on my own car. How many firm commitments are there for these.

[m42 fan]

Mark me down for one. I want to get this done, as I think it's time for new plug wires, and this is going to be about the same price. What I don't have is any access to the equipment, or knowledge of how to use it, so I'm at your mercy, unfortunatly :(

[rob_e30]

How quickly can they be done? I'll take one if I can have it by the end of the month. One more question for bmwman91, what size is the hole for the bolts that hold it to the valve cover? That detail seems to be missing from your drawing.

[bmwman91]

Hmmm....

Those were ~6mm, or like a .238 drill I believe.

[gunsmoke]

Is anyone going to to run with this? I will check into having some made up if no one else is going to do it. I have access to a mill and I'm sure there's someone here would like to pick up a little cash. I would prefer some one else do it. I already have the conversion on my own car. How many firm commitments are there for these.

i too am intrested, but lack the knowledge to make these. if you're thinking about making these plates, i'll take one for sure.

[nickmpower]

id be interested too if we could get it going

[AL GReeNeRy]

ive been discussing a group buy with bmwman. since hes busy with that MAF conversion (and life too), i will take over the COP conversion. once we get the ball rollin here, ill get some prices quotes asap.

[rob_e30]

I have already been in touch with machine shops and it looks like I could sell these for about $50 plus shipping (figure $55 total?) unless someone is farther along in the process.

[AL GReeNeRy]

check the group buy section to sign up for this!!!

[rob_e30]

So it looks like Al and I got our wires crossed. I already have a machine shop working on these plates and expect to have 7 available for sale perhaps by the end of the year depending on their schedule.

[kowalski]

Out of curiosity would it not have been better to angle the coils the other direction so that the plugs flow with the wires more, rather then having the huge bend? I'm just parranoid after having so many broken wire incidences... unless this would not work due to lack from room between plug/wire/and valve cover...?

[bmwman91]

I looked into that initially, but the clearance between the coil body and valve cover was too close. Aside from causing an even smaller bend radius in the wires, there would not really have been room for the harness with 3+ sets of wires between the connectors and cover.

[kowalski]

yeah, thats what i figured.

[shellback]

can I use these for the COP project?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=660086

Thanks,

HNY! :)

[bmwman91]

Hmmm....they do not look like they will fit. The bodies are different, and it almost looks like they have 4 holes instead of 2.

[zerofreez]

Those are the bosch ones that I used for my setup. They are more powerful but require them to be mounted differently. The COP Bracket that is discused in this thread is not compatible with those coils.

[rob_e30]

The initial run of brackets is complete and the hardware kit has been finalized. Check out the group buy section or PM me for details.

[m44power]

bmwman91 You The Man!!! i working in same project too but it looks like with your first attemt im gone do like your new one Thanks! im looking for new coils

[bmwman91]

Well, I FINALLY spent the time to put the development process for this onto my website. Check out the epic tale of the M42 COP development lol. Many thanks again to everyone who helped out!

http://bmw.e30tuner.com/my318is_pic_copcon.php

[AL GReeNeRy]

Does anyone have a spare coil from turner? i tried purchasing a couple more today and the link no longer works. would the m52/s52 coils work? if not i would like to purchase two of the ones that do fit the conversion.. PM ME PLEASEEE!!

[D. Clay]

Some of the coils are the same except the extension isn't long enough. Just swap extensions. Sometimes a salvage yard will sell all six off a core head or even a good motor.

[D. Clay]

http://fap99.com/epcvsoapimc.epc?cookieID=21W1D6XWE2210XS3S2&drillid=8&subcatid=801079@@Ignition+System&clientid=fap99

[nomad]

So has anyone looked into getting these brackets produced again?

Nobody has mentioned a heat resistant plastic or ABS as opposed to metal bar stock. I bet it would end up cheaper than metal. Plastic is always used on engine covers now, you just need to pick the right one.

I may look around and see what plastic would work. May be router CNC cut to size easily.

[D. Clay]

Nobody has mentioned a heat resistant plastic or ABS as opposed to metal bar stock. I bet it would end up cheaper than metal. Plastic is always used on engine covers now, you just need to pick the right one.
Only problem would be the need for inserts for securing the screws that hold down the coils and reinforcing around the bolts that hold the plates in place. Some hard, heat resistent plastic or FRP.

[Donkeyshins]

I'd love to get a bracket for a winter project. I'm assuming no differences between an E30/M42 and E36/M42 COP setup. Let me know if you have any available and what the price would be.

-D

[bmwman91]

Anyone need a bracket still? I was thinking of doing a run of 3 or 4 for some spare climbing-gear cash. Looking at $65 shipped, payment over paypal. If I can get at least 2 people interested, it can happen in the next 2 weeks.

[bmwman91]

Oh and this includes mounting hardware and instructions.

[n2motorsports]

i'll take one.

[e30s4evr]

me 2.

[rfritz]

I'll take one too.

[gearheadE30]

Me too.

[bmwman91]

Well shit, looks like I have some work to do! I will not be able to do anything this week as I am taking time off work to climb in SoCal, but the week after I might be able to work some magic. Thanks guys!

[jpod999]

Can someone remind me of the advantages of a COP system?

[gearheadE30]

Can someone remind me of the advantages of a COP system?

Do I smell sarcasm? ;) When you are running an 4 original coils and they need to be replaced anyway plus it is a little smoother and maybe a bit better throttle response. True, it isn't much, but it is cheaper than buying four new M42 coils. If you know of any place to get them on the cheap with less than 50k, let me know :).

[D. Clay]

Can someone remind me of the advantages of a COP system?
and they look so cool....
and there's more room for a turbo...
and they look so cool...
and they're cheaper than a set of wires and coils for M42 with 150,000 plus miles that is still making it on the original tired stuff.

[Donkeyshins]

Oh and this includes mounting hardware and instructions.

Lemmie check w/ the wife. We just got audited and cash is a bit tight...

-D

[bmwman91]

Lemmie check w/ the wife. We just got audited and cash is a bit tight...

-D

As in this being a $130 purchase? You get the COP plate and she gets new shoes? jk

[jpod999]

Do I smell sarcasm? ;) When you are running an 4 original coils and they need to be replaced anyway plus it is a little smoother and maybe a bit better throttle response. True, it isn't much, but it is cheaper than buying four new M42 coils. If you know of any place to get them on the cheap with less than 50k, let me know :).


Lol no sarcasm. bmwman...put me down for one too.

[bmwman91]

Good grief, I will have my work cut out for me after my vacation!

So, thus far I have:

[See post 127]

[nomad]

Would a sheet of delrin be cheaper than aluminum? How about a heat resistant ABS plastic? Small washers and nuts can fix the bolting issue. May be much cheaper to produce. I came across a material called "diebond" that is two peices of aluminum bonded to PVC core. Total thickness is 3/16" or so. Pretty light stuff. I'm going to see if I can get some of it and put it in the engine bay to test heat resistance.

[bmwman91]

Delrin would probably be a lot more expensive than plain old aluminum bar. ABS is relatively pricey as well. It might seem counterintuitive, but polymer products like that are much more costly in a low-volume application like this. They can be more challenging to machine too...harder to clamp straight and cut.

[ScreamerBeemer]

If you can swing 7, im in. I still have the original coils and wires after I saw how much the wires were.

[bmwman91]

OK, so the list in post 116 is now final. I will hit the metal dealer either this afternoon at lunch or tomorrow morning. Unless the world is consumed in flames or something big like that, I will be making the plates on Sunday/Monday. From there we can work out payment and shipping. Everyone is in the US right? If you are in another country, it will be more than $65 shipped. Thanks.

[gearheadE30]

What coils are compatible with this plate? The Turner link is not working.

[bmwman91]

They are the round-body ones from E46 6 cylinders. Call local BMW shops and look around online for used ones.

[bmwman91]

Alrighty, I picked up the material at lunch today. Since I hate paying extra cutting fees, I ended up with enough for 8 plates. Who wants to be #8?

And BTW future ones will run a little more than 65 shipped. Maybe $70 + shipping. Material costs for aluminum are up from a year ago when I last did these...damn you China!

[e30s4evr]

Correction. It's damn you shrink US Dollar!!!

[gearheadE30]

Sorry BMWman, but I got in an accident with a landrover the other day and didn't realize how f*king expensive those things are to repair (insurance is saying I'm at fault). I'm gonna have to back out. :( stupid paper-thin landrover sheetmetal...

[bmwman91]

Alrighty, those sort of circumstances are worthy of not getting a plate. Normally I would beat you with a sock full of quarters, buuut this time...... :p

[bmwman91]

OK Here is the new list for this batch then:
1) n2motorsports [DONE]
2) e30s4evr [DONE]
3) ScreamerBeemer [Waiting]
4) jpod999 [DONE]
5) donkeyshins [TBD]
6) rfritz [TBD]
7) 91318isfoundation [TBD]
8) SmartBomb [TBD]

[91318isfoundation]

OK Here is the new list for this batch then:
1) n2motorsports
2) e30s4evr
3) rfritz
4) donkeyshins (maybe)
5) jpod999
6) ScreamerBeemer
7) 91318isfoundation
8) ???
__________________

[bmwman91]

Also making news....

I re-did the drawing for the COP plate. It is not on one page using ordinate dimensions...a little cluttered perhaps, but simpler than before. Here it is in Adobe PDF format.

http://www.e30tuner.com/coilonplug/M42_COP_BRACKET_A1.PDF

[ScreamerBeemer]

Hey bmwman91, lemme know when the plates are done so I can pay you.:cool:

[jpod999]

Also making news....

I re-did the drawing for the COP plate. It is not on one page using ordinate dimensions...a little cluttered perhaps, but simpler than before. Here it is in Adobe PDF format.

http://www.e30tuner.com/coilonplug/M42_COP_BRACKET_A1.PDF

Dang, that's a technical drawing. You must have been bored as hell. ;)

[P. Kennedy]

If so, I'm in.

[bmwman91]

For the moment it looks like all 8 slots are filled. Based upon the "new" way I have been making these, I will do batches of 4 at a time. MAYBE 3. Once these are done, I will post up a new thread and see if i can get some multiples of 3/4 interested.

I have the last of the parts I ordered in and I will ship some tonight. I still need to make the 2nd set of 4 plates, but am horribly busy with life. They will be machined ASAP. Thanks all.

[sumyungguy]

Is gearheadE30's spoken for already, Id like one. Come to the PINO meet on this Thursday and deliver to me and jpod :p. Trade for some shirts + cash?

LMK

[sumyungguy]

http://www.e30tuner.com/coilonplug/M42_COP_BRACKET_A1.PDF

Boy that brings me back to my drafting days..

Nice stuff..

[bmwman91]

Well so far the list is still full in post 127. PINO meet? Unfortunately, I will be in Walnut Creek drinking in a buddy's pool at a little welcome-back party after work. It seems that there will probably be enough interest in these to do another round of 4 in the future. Don't hold your breath though.

[shutter]

I'll probably be interested next time. Been buying too many parts the last month and I am running short on cash... :(

[jpod999]

Well so far the list is still full in post 127. PINO meet? Unfortunately, I will be in Walnut Creek drinking in a buddy's pool at a little welcome-back party after work. It seems that there will probably be enough interest in these to do another round of 4 in the future. Don't hold your breath though.

PINO meet is the weekly Thursday night meets at the In 'N Out in Pleasonton. BTW, live in Walnut Creek, when you gonna be here?

[BrandC]

I'm in for a COP bracket, just let me know when I'm "eligible" to pay and what not.

[bmwman91]

PINO meet is the weekly Thursday night meets at the In 'N Out in Pleasonton. BTW, live in Walnut Creek, when you gonna be here?

I plan on bailing out of the office a little early, maybe 230ish. So I should be in the dubCee from 330 till whenever.

[jpod999]

Great quality work! Now I can't wait to get some coils for this install.

[enildeR]

Is the buy still open or what?

[sports.racer]

Still a little confused.

I think I understand that if the BMW 1 748 017/Bremi 11860 coil pack is used then no milling of the rocker cover is required?

What about the spark plug connector/boot? What length is required?



Parts required:

4 coil packs - BMW 1 748 017/Bremi 11860
4 spark plug connectors - Part number/length ???
1 COP bracket

Is this list right??

[oldtimer]

Does the plate have a means to retain the "Rubber cup" over the lip from where the original plug wire covers? From I showned in the tech picture they were machined off. what prevents any fluid making it's way down into the splug hole?

[bmwman91]

The plug boot should come with the coils. Check realoem.com for the PN.

There is no overhanging boot on the new ones. So far I have had no issues with water leakage, and that is with my machined valve cover. You do not need to modify it like I did...that was from version 1 of the conversion. The boots fit snugly in the holes anyway, so I would not worry much.

[oldtimer]

Thanks bmwman91. I was just wondering because my and I's version did allow for the "boot" in this case "cup" to go over the existing lip that the original plug wire covered, then again I am using a much larger coil than what your bracket is meant to use. If it wasn't for my son's idea to go this route I would have gone another route. He is 16 and getting into modifying cars with so I elected to leave his version on my car. It is similar with the bracket that goes over the coil and push them down again the spark plug cavity. How we managed to have the "cup" over the existing lip, we cut out the boot from the old spark plug wires and fitted them to the coil extension in turn they fit over the lip and act a bushing for the coil as they are being pushed againts the lip.

do you know if there is a voltages outfut difference between the coil from a 6cylinder and the one's from a v-8 in this case a 740. The reason I am wondering is ever since we converted my car to the COP the car idles much smoother than before.

[bmwman91]

I do not know, actually. The number of coilings in the secondary windings might differ. I DO know that the original plug wires, and the new plug boots have resistors in them to limit current.

The idle improvement might just be because the ignition wires were shot. Mine ran better as well.

[brandon11130]

are these the right coils? the link on the first page is broken. http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=7286
e46 6cyl coils. when are you going to do another batch of the brackets?

[Jak318]

are these the right coils? the link on the first page is broken. http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=7286
e46 6cyl coils. when are you going to do another batch of the brackets?

That doesn't look like the right coil. I didn't cross ref the part number listed for that one but here is a close-up shot of the ones you should be using.

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/39972/2593218920101994166S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2593218920101994166ddXDtW)

[haledj]

are these the right coils? the link on the first page is broken. http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=7286
e46 6cyl coils. when are you going to do another batch of the brackets?

see sig :)

[TheNeek]

bmwman91 and others:
I made an english print version of the COP plate, for us folks that don't have spiffy digital read outs on our mills that work in the metric system. I'm the machine shop manager at work and all I get are dials that read in thous. If anyone is interested in what the measurements are in english units, I have it on PDF. It's in Pro-E wildfire 3.0 if people can open the file, I'll send it. Also I can convert to .dwg or .dxf for those that are interested. Here's a Jpg:

[haledj]

bmwman91 and others:
I made an english print version of the COP plate, for us folks that don't have spiffy digital read outs on our mills that work in the metric system. I'm the machine shop manager at work and all I get are dials that read in thous. If anyone is interested in what the measurements are in english units, I have it on PDF. It's in Pro-E wildfire 3.0 if people can open the file, I'll send it. Also I can convert to .dwg or .dxf for those that are interested. Here's a Jpg:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z45/m42power/m42-cop-bracket.jpg


A few of the holes there are in different places than I use most notably, the one in the upper right corner, and the mounting holes and the big holes are not inline.

[TheNeek]

A few of the holes there are in different places than I use most notably, the one in the upper right corner, and the mounting holes and the big holes are not inline.

Agreed... Why is that one hole on cylinder one all out of place? I was toggling back and forth between the Metric PDF print and my model, guess I Goofed.

Better?
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z45/m42power/m42-cop-bracket.jpg

[haledj]

Agreed... Why is that one hole on cylinder one all out of place? I was toggling back and forth between the Metric PDF print and my model, guess I Goofed.

Better?
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z45/m42power/m42-cop-bracket.jpg

It would hit the valve cover on the end.

Is this file different? I should have said that the mounting holes and the should not be inline.

[TheNeek]

It would hit the valve cover on the end.

Is this file different? I should have said that the mounting holes and the should not be inline.

I changed the file on photobucket... so your qouted picture three posts up is actually referring to the new file as well. Tricky :D

Is the cylinder one coil pack different? I'm looking at the metric print (which is correct) and the other hole for that coil pack, is in the same relative location as the other 3 in that row (in relation to the spark plug holes). How can this be?

Just looked at the pics in the GB thread. So there are two sets of holes for each coil... and you lop off the ear in that particular corner. Interesting.

[haledj]

yep that is the way we do it. It works really well. :)

[TheNeek]

yep that is the way we do it. It works really well. :)

Is there a coil that doesn't have the two holes? Instead has just the one that is closest to the center axis. I think having one coil be different would bug me.

[haledj]

No, you have to cut/grind off the outer part

[Jak318]

Is there a coil that doesn't have the two holes? Instead has just the one that is closest to the center axis. I think having one coil be different would bug me.

Its crammed in the corner anyway. You won't even notice.

[pwforprez]

coils are on the way. this looks like it should be a fun project

[TheNeek]

coils are on the way. this looks like it should be a fun project

who was your coil source?

[pwforprez]

ebay. they should be here in a couple days

[pwforprez]

coils are in my possession

[250k318is]

i just made one of thease brackes and go the coils from flea bay i work in a shop so accsess to the machines to make them a easy:o

[n2motorsports]

Okay, still a bit confused on the ignition coils.

in the pdf instruction it says to use: 12-13-1-748-018
pictures above are clearly: 12-13-1-748-017

can either one be used?

[Jak318]

I would say that it needs to be the one shown in the pic. Correct me if i'm wrong but the ones ending in the 18 are the square coils with four mount holes and those will not work.

[n2motorsports]

I would say that it needs to be the one shown in the pic. Correct me if i'm wrong but the ones ending in the 18 are the square coils with four mount holes and those will not work.

Did you successfully use them for your cop conversion? anyone else?

[agreen]

are there any of the full kits avalable left plates , nuts , bolts etc

will you ship to uk can pay straight away .

thanks arron

[Wise Old Dog]

There are COP brackets available on US ebay. I just bought 2 of them this week. $79 shipped including hardware. Fast shipping. Got coils also for $52 shipped for 4.

[agreen]

yes but does he ship to the uk and if so how much is it mate ?

[Wise Old Dog]

Check it out. Send an e-mail.

[agreen]

have done on here and on ebay waiting for reply

[pwforprez]

damn how hard is shortening the wires ive had this sitting here forever but dont trust my wiring. could i keep them long then just wiretie the out of the way till i learn?

[haledj]

I still have plates for sale and am about to make more.

[agreen]

so like i said then how much to ship a kit to the uk

[Wizard]

There are COP brackets available on US ebay. I just bought 2 of them this week. $79 shipped including hardware. Fast shipping. Got coils also for $52 shipped for 4.

Did the same seller have the coils? He doesn't have any listed at the moment.

[Wise Old Dog]

140141034629 Check this item number. There are 5 left. He accepted my offer of $10. I don't know if they come with the spark plug boots. They might be something you want to replace anyway. I found those for $4.95 new.

[hoevesruperd]

what is the difference between performance (bavauto) and regular M54 COP ?

[D. Clay]

damn how hard is shortening the wires ive had this sitting here forever but dont trust my wiring. could i keep them long then just wiretie the out of the way till i learn?
Just fold them over themselves under the plastic cover on the firewall. I did that for about a month until I shortened mine. I never had any luck with the clips so I just cut a piece out of the wires and rejoined them at the right length. It actually isn't necessary to shorten them at all.

[n2motorsports]

140141034629 Check this item number. There are 5 left.

Not any more he dosen't....muah ha ha!!!

btw, where did you find the boots for $4.95/each?

[agreen]

do you keep the orginal spark plugs and everything when this is fitted jut stick the s50 coils on and plug them in jobs a goodum ?

[haledj]

do you keep the orginal spark plugs and everything when this is fitted jut stick the s50 coils on and plug them in jobs a goodum ?
yeah you keep the stock plugs, or whatever you want to run really, and it uses the m54 colis.

Yes, it is that simple

[agreen]

i prosume you could contact someone and buy performace coil packs and fit them with performance is plugs ?

[Wise Old Dog]

Not any more he dosen't....muah ha ha!!!

btw, where did you find the boots for $4.95/each?

No need to worry, I just received my coils and they came with the boots. For whatever reason, he shipped me 5 coils. Nice to have a spare.

[D. Clay]

This is a repost.
Search on ebay for BMW coils and look one up that is from ebay store "FCP Groton". They have a ton of parts including a kit with 2 control arms, 2 complete tie rods, and polyeurethane control arm bushings for $200. They sell the coils in groups of 6, 8, and 12. Two peple could buy 8 or three buy twelve and split them up. Price is $25 each. There are also assorted sellers of used coils for cheap!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Ignition-Coils-E46-E39-323i-323is-325i-328ci-328i_W0QQitemZ250229507801QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 250229507801

[agreen]

sorry in that case

[hoevesruperd]

This is a repost.
Search on ebay for BMW coils and look one up that is from ebay store "FCP Groton". They have a ton of parts including a kit with 2 control arms, 2 complete tie rods, and polyeurethane control arm bushings for $200. They sell the coils in groups of 6, 8, and 12. Two peple could buy 8 or three buy twelve and split them up. Price is $25 each. There are also assorted sellers of used coils for cheap!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Ignition-Coils-E46-E39-323i-323is-325i-328ci-328i_W0QQitemZ250229507801QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 250229507801

i just bought a pack of 6 from these guys and might have 2 for sale soon enough

[pwforprez]

Just fold them over themselves under the plastic cover on the firewall. I did that for about a month until I shortened mine. I never had any luck with the clips so I just cut a piece out of the wires and rejoined them
at the right length. It actually isn't necessary to shorten them at all.

sweet thanks man i want to have this on for the weekend.. i want to see a base dyno.. the losal club is having a dyno day

[nc_bboy]

Will the COP bracket and the M54 coils work for the E36 M42? I didn't see anyone with an E36 saying anything yet (unless i missed it) Because I've been trying to find some cheap coils because the car hasn't moved for a year just because the coils died lol (and now I'm ready to drive her again) If they do will because I'll be sure to get them this Thursday.
Edit: Also if they do fit you'll just have to drill where the holes are at to be able to screw in the hardware that comes with the bracket? (just making sure)

[ApocolypseAutoEngineering]

What do you guys think about using the plasma coils that should work as well.

[bmw318is1994]

wow this is really good. I just got a couple questions for you guys about this. Ok, that plate just fits around the spark plug holes correct? you attach the coils to that plate but how to hold the plate down or will the coil/plugs hold that down? Oh and that link is no longer good. Are they just the M54 coils that are used? Sorry for the newbbbbbb questions but I need to see if this will work on my E36.

[haledj]

wow this is really good. I just got a couple questions for you guys about this.


Are they just the M54 coils that are used?

yes

you attach the coils to that plate but how to hold the plate down or will the coil/plugs hold that down?

The coils are attached to the engine with studs in the stock valve cover mounting holes.

Ok, that plate just fits around the spark plug holes correct?

yea

[tony92ic]

I finally got my COP conversion done today with Haledj's bracket. I used the hardware he sent along and it took me less than a couple of hours and that was taking my time and playing fetch with the dog while I was at it.

It really idles smooth now, but it had the original wires (130k miles) and really old plugs ( I put new NGKs in while I was at it), so I don't know how much I can credit the conversion. It sure looks sweet though.

I used the Bav Auto performance coils. You have to call and order 4 of the m50 coils, not the M42 coils (they won't fit). If I had it to do again though I'd probably go with a used set of Bremis. The Bav Auto coils are expensive.

[swiss318is]

can i use s54 coils? would i notice any difference to the m54? or are they the same coils??

[haledj]

I am pretty sure the s54 coils are different, if you look at the pictures you'll know what I mean. They mount differently.

[hoevesruperd]

this is my setup
haledj plate and mounting hardware
FCP groton (ebay) coils

it was a very very simple job. 20min max
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd79/hoevesruperd/DSC_0897.jpg