Engine failure due to pan gasket shift/bolt loss

[sheepdog]

Recently one of our own members had an engine failure in an nexpected way. It has often been said that when opening an M42, expect to find a bolt laying inside. When we opened up this member's engine (Febi Guibo) what we found scared not only us, but also a well known engine builder. The motor had 160k miles on it.

As many of you know, our pans hang awfully low. They tend to get bashed a bit, not to mention our high strung motors and similar owners high strung driving style leads to lots of vibration. All leading to lots of loose bolts, especially since Germans it seems do not know how to torque a bolt, they are about 10-20% below torque compared to other manufacturers using similar size bolts.

My thanks to Metric Mechanic (http://www.metricmechanic.com/) for letting Febi and I pull his pan to get this information.

Basic rundown of what happens.
When BMW designed the M42, they made the oil pickup bolt to the oil pan,
which bolts to the block. This is sealed by an ear of the pan gasket. When the bolts come loose and fall out, the front edge of the pan, can slide forward, allowing the pump to suck air from the oil pan. When this happens there is no way to prime the pump, or get any oil to flow. Run too long like this and the engine will grind to a halt. Also, there was no oil leaking from this engine, so do not use this as a gauge to see if yours has the problem.

Every M42 owner should consider doing this!
I will make it as simple as I can. It is possible to do with simple hand tools.
Sorry for the cheesy Photoshop graphics, but they get the point across.
Note* All pictures can be clicked for a higher resolution version. As always you do this at your own risk.

How to diagnose and prevent.
First thing to do is drain your oil. (17mm)
Jack up the car, be sure to block the tires, use stands or ramps, not just a
jack.
With a 10mm wrench remove the lower oil pan. If you are lucky you will not be missing any bolts. I will be adding part numbers and specs for the
bolts later for those missing them.

With a flashlight, look up into your pan. Laying on your back, you should see something like this:
http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/pan-nomark_alt_sm.jpg (http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/pan-nomark_alt.jpg)


Inside there should be 6 bolts.
The thee bolts closest to the dipstick along the front are the 3 most important ones we are looking for, however you obviously want all of them. Blue designates a pan bolt.
Pink designates the hole for the dipstick.
http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/panmark_alt_sm.jpg (http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/panmark_alt.jpg)



If you were to remove the upper pan, this is what you would see with an
overlay of the gasket.
Here you can see the little extra piece that goes around the oil pump pickup. As you can see, there is really nothing to hold it in place other than those front bolts (terrible design in my opinion).
http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/block_marked_sm.jpg (http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/block_marked.jpg)


Here is what happens when those bolts fall out.
The pan gasket shifts forward, allowing the pump to suck air from the oil pan.
On this engine, you could actually see a small tab of the gasket hanging out in front of the block.
This is what the gasket looked like when the pan was removed.
http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/airsuck_sm.jpg (http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/airsuck.jpg)



When we removed the lower pan, all of the bolts were tight.
The upper pan however, was extremely loose. Some bolts came out with our fingers! When we got inside, 4 bolts were missing, one was finger tight. If you look real close in the pictures with the pump pickup, you can actually see threads pounded into the pickup. The pan would drop down, a bolt would get just underneath, and then the pan would get hit, imprinting the pickup with its threads.


Repair
My advice is to tighten as many upper pan bolts as you can reach, which is not many. You may even want to consider pulling them one by one, and adding Locktite (blue). Then remove the lower pan, and find all of your bolts (odds are at least one will be sitting in the pan) and add some Locktite to all of them before re-installing the lower pan. I will try to acquire the pan bolt torque specs, I reccomend 10-20% increase on that number, which is what I was recomended to do.

If you think your motor is not like this, I did a quick check today on the
outer upper pan bolts I could see from outside and I have at least one upper pan bolt missing. My lower comes off this week for a complete check, and I am contemplating jacking up the engine to re-torque/replace all of the upper pan bolts. my motor only has 140k miles.

Note* There are 2 bolts at the very rear of the upper pan, they are not accessible without removing the trans, nice one BMW! (dumbasses). The good news is that both were as tight as the day they left BMW. Which is another reason why I suspect bumping the pan, (along with engine vibration, particulaarly from teh timing chain and oil pump) is the cause of all of this.

Update: apparently there is 2 access holes to allow you to access these bolts through the bellhousing.


Bolt torque specs:
Bolt torque depends on quality of the bolts.

Stock bolts the proper torque is: 10 nm (89 in-lb)
Better high end bolts (higher grade) can go 12nm (9ft-lb) *Note the change to foot pounds.

Jim at Metric Mechanic recommends adding about 10-20%, but that is your call.
Thank Eurospec for finding those.







For the curious, here is a shot of the block as you see it without the upper
pan and gasket installed.
http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/block_sm.jpg (http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/block_sm.jpg)

[silverblades181]

I recently replaced my lower oil pan gasket because I thought it was leaking (appears to be the upper gasket...) and I did find a bolt loose and all the others were finger tight....kinda scared me and my friend. We tighten them all but I think I'll check the upper pan now. I guess it must be the case on many M42s

[sheepdog]

Updated:
Added the following near the bottom.



Note* There are 2 bolts at the very rear of the upper pan, they are not accessible without removing the trans, nice one BMW! (dumbasses). The good news is that both were as tight as the day they left BMW. Which is another reason why I suspect bumping the pan, (along with engine vibration, particulaarly from teh timing chain and oil pump) is the cause of all of this.

[romkasponka]

check my sump ;)

[thumper3ld]

My mechanic did this recently and according to him, lifting the motor off the mounts makes this a bit easier, which means, if you havent done it yet, changing the motor mounts at this time also would be a good idea.

[Zoso]

Great writeup - thanks!

[sheepdog]

check my sump ;)
Yikes!

[kowalski]

holy, next thing on my list is checking that. my pan doesn't look like its been hit too many times, and i put on a skid plate so i think i should be ok "crosses fingers"

[sheepdog]

Umm, well.
I guess I can skip the check...

1/8 mile from home, I coasted to within 500 feet of my driveway, and pushed it the rest. While I have not pulled the pan, I know this is what it was, I did catch it as soon as it happenned though.

No, I am not joking.

The good news is that I caught it just as the light came on and killed the engine, so with any luck, there will be no damage.

Seriously guys, do not wait. I was days away from checking it.

[mikesjo]

Which light comes on to warn you?

[romkasponka]

low oil pressure lamp will be illuminated if that occur on you engine



my next mod will be oil pressure gauge..

Do you know where to screw oil pressure sensor?

[Zoso]

Just as an FYI:

Upper oil pan gasket part number:
11131739592

Lower oil pan gasket part number:
11131709815


Are there any issues or gotchas when installing the new gaskets?

[sheepdog]

Are there any issues or gotchas when installing the new gaskets?

The crossmember is in the way. Necessitating a lifting of the engine.
The 2 rear-most pan bolts are covered by the transmission bell housing. Necessitating slding the transmission back a few inches or the engine forward a few. 2in. should do it.

[gazellebeigem3]

Just changed the lower pan gasket today and found two bolts. this seems like its worth checking out for you guys that havent

[D. Clay]

BMW continues a tradition:
http://terrysaytherauto.com/M60OilPumpBoltProb.htm
What's with these guys? If it's not the pan it's the pump!

[sheepdog]

I just fired off an email, to them regarding what we are finding.

[ak96ss]

Did mine today - everything was about as tight as when it was put together... :)

[romkasponka]

I think 1 hour in race track will solve your problems ;)

[Eurospec]

Anyone recall the size of the bolts?

[sheepdog]

M6x18 according to realoem.com

[sheepdog]

Bolt torque depends on quality of the bolts.

Stock bolts the proper torque is: 10 nm (89 in-lb)
Better high end bolts (higher grade) can go 12nm (9ft-lb) *Note the change to foot pounds.

Jim at Metric Mechanic recommends adding about 10-20%, but that is your call.
Thank Eurospec for finding those.


I also added a note regarding the 2 rearmost bolts, apparently there is access ports in the bellhousing.

[Eurospec]

I've removed all the lower pan bolts yet the pan won't come loose, any suggestions? A rubber mallet would seem useful howver, I don't have one.

edit: figured it out

[kowalski]

just pulled mine off today, had a bolt lying in the pan, i was lucky i think i ended up better off cause of my skid plate protecting the pan...

[dhirsch]

I changed my lower oil pan back in October when I got my car. Found 3 bolts laying in the pan and a few others that were loose. Nice to know it's not just my 220,000 mile car that did this.

A friend of mine just destroyed his M42 by driving it after the oil light warning went on.....i wonder if this is what happened

[sheepdog]

I changed my lower oil pan back in October when I got my car. Found 3 bolts laying in the pan and a few others that were loose. Nice to know it's not just my 220,000 mile car that did this.

A friend of mine just destroyed his M42 by driving it after the oil light warning went on.....i wonder if this is what happened From what I have seen there are 2 common oil failures on 318's.

The first is the pan gasket shifting as describved above.


The second is the timing chain (and/or rollers) self destructing and damaging the oil pump housing, which is what happenned to BMWman91 and myself. I suspect it has to do with putting a new tensioner in with a severly worn chain. When i get more info I will post a guide to this issue as well.

[///Motorsport]

^^^ how much does a lower oil pan cost? i'm getting scared of all of these stories, i better change my oil soon.

[sheepdog]

^^^ how much does a lower oil pan cost? i'm getting scared of all of these stories, i better change my oil soon.

The pan itself is not a problem, unless yours is damaged. At most you need a lower pan gasket in order to check this.

[achtungE30]

From what I have seen there are 2 common oil failures on 318's.

The first is the pan gasket shifting as describved above.


The second is the timing chain (and/or rollers) self destructing and damaging the oil pump housing, which is what happenned to BMWman91 and myself. I suspect it has to do with putting a new tensioner in with a severly worn chain. When i get more info I will post a guide to this issue as well.

So should I hold off on a new tensioner till you can confirm this???

[M42boy]

The pan itself is not a problem, unless yours is damaged. At most you need a lower pan gasket in order to check this.
Bull$hit! I think these things warp (and some crack) with age, making the problem even worse. I considered replacing mine, but I just had it electrostatically cleaned and inspected it carefully.

A new lower pan is only $100. Check Bavarian Autosport at http://www.bavauto.com

I also replaced all the bolts with new ones and put loctite on the ones on the inside. I found three lying in my pan when I dropped it. :eek:

[sheepdog]

Bull$hit! I think these things warp (and some crack) with age, making the problem even worse. I considered replacing mine, but I just had it electrostatically cleaned and inspected it carefully.

A new lower pan is only $100. Check Bavarian Autosport at http://www.bavauto.com

I also replaced all the bolts with new ones and put loctite on the ones on the inside. I found three lying in my pan when I dropped it. :eek:

I responded based on the fact that it sounded like he thought the pan itself was responsible for this. It is not. It is merely bolts falling out and the gasket slipping out of possition.

If you pan is not damaged, then there is no need to replace it.

Can the pan warp? Possibly, however there should not be enough heat there to do that and even then, it is not likely to be a problem re-installing even if it is warped a bit. Cracks and damage from impacts can definately occur, and you should inspect it while you have it off, but again, unless there is something wrong with it, then you should not need to replace it.

It is a non-wearing item, same as a valve cover.

[sheepdog]

So should I hold off on a new tensioner till you can confirm this???

How bad is your chain?
Mine could be clearly heard from 3400-4500 rpm, not sure how well of an estimate of wear that is, but it is all I have to go on other than saying it was pretty loud.

If it is real bad, I am not sure what to do other than replace it and the tensioner together.

If it is not very bad, a new tensioner may be good for it.


I will report once I get it apart and find out how bad things are. I have no idea if I will be able to find the ultimate cause of the problem though.

[///Motorsport]

when i go in and remove the lower oil pan, i don't need anything other than standard tools, torque wrench and jack stands right? My question is whether i will need to order a new gasket ahead of time, and if anyone has a part no.?

[Eurospec]

Standard tools will be fine. I would replace the gasket. The p/n is 11131709815

[///Motorsport]

thanks. i forgot to read the thread after my last post. i didnt think the lower oil pan was the actual problem, good clarification by m42boy and sheepdog. i was being retarded. well my car gets insured tommorrow! finally get to drive legally!

[D. Clay]

Mine went bad at 135,000 miles- sounded like a diesel at low revs. I put one in and made no other changes. I now have just shy of 200,000 miles on it with no problems so far.

[sheepdog]

Pulled the front end apart today, 2in crack in the oil pump housing, and one chain guide is pretty much destroyed. All sprockets are worn to shit as well.

Several factors I think led to this, at least some could be atributed to the new timing chain tensioner.

Pics in a few hours of the pump at least.

[sheepdog]

Put in a new writeup. (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840)

Heres what I found.
I think I brokeded it.

http://www.m42club.com/images/doug/IMG_3883.jpg

[bmuser]

ok wait let me get this straight. If when you take off the lower oil pan you find some bolts, do you just screw in the new ones you bought in the places where they should be? can you re use the ones that fell out?

Or do you absolutely have to take the upper oil pan part?

[sheepdog]

ok wait let me get this straight. If when you take off the lower oil pan you find some bolts, do you just screw in the new ones you bought in the places where they should be? can you re use the ones that fell out?

Or do you absolutely have to take the upper oil pan part?

You do not need to buy new bolts.


Pull the lower pan.
Look up. You will see a handful of bolts inside that hold the upper pan in place.
Some may be laying in the lower pan.
Check for loose ones, if they are loose, tighten them, you may also want to consider adding Locktite.
Reinstall the original ones that fell out using Locktite.


All there is to it.
Only thing you may need to buy is a lower pan gasket if you do this during an oil change.
Ask anyone who has had this stuff happen, it is worth every second and penny to do.

[91318isguy]

I'm so SORRY for you sheepdog. You've helped us out so much in the past and now this happens to you. So sorry man. By the way, would I be correct in stating to M42 boy that the part being aluminum does give a bit, so any warpage wouldn't most likely be much of a problem. I agree sheepdog, that would be an extreme amount of heat to warp the pan.

One other question about noise. How do I know it's not the fan or fan bearing that I'm hearing and it's the chain? When changing the chain is there anything really special you have to do (other than remove the parts in front of the housing). Would you recommend replacing the sprocket, chain and tensioner?

[sheepdog]

I'm so SORRY for you sheepdog. You've helped us out so much in the past and now this happens to you. So sorry man. This was right at the beginning of this site actually, and not all of this happened to me (though I have certainly paid my dues for this site). The first indicator of a major problem was was Febi Guibo's car as he was driving to Metric Mechanic for his stroker engine. He did not get half way before pan gasket shift happened. We dissected his motor at Metric Mechanic and documented it.

After seeing his, and knowing BMWman91 had his motor die from pump explosion a bit earlier (at the time we all thought it was a fluke), we started putting things together. I had planned on pulling my pan over the weekend when mine did the same as Bmwman91's car did 3 days before I dropped it.

2 different problems, same cause.

All of us who had this stuff happen are responsible for you getting this info, I just happened to be the one who documented it and you could say wrong (or right) place, right time I guess. Until we had a home for this engine, all information of other people having this issue was pretty much lost on other forums due to the mass of 325 owners and issues. Same with most of the other M42 specific info.

By the way, the M42 is not the only BMW engine with this problem. At least one 5 series engine has this issue big time however only one or 2 places will discuss it.


By the way, would I be correct in stating to M42 boy that the part being aluminum does give a bit, so any warpage wouldn't most likely be much of a problem. I agree sheepdog, that would be an extreme amount of heat to warp the pan. Which part warping? The pan? The pan can give some, the timing chain housing can definitely warp as well. How much of a problem either is, could be debated. I would think pan warpage is not an issue, but the timing chain housing, that could be an issue. It has pressurized oil flowing through it and a spinning oil pump.



One other question about noise. How do I know it's not the fan or fan bearing that I'm hearing and it's the chain? When changing the chain is there anything really special you have to do (other than remove the parts in front of the housing). Would you recommend replacing the sprocket, chain and tensioner?
Take a long screwdriver, and place the point against the timing chain section the other against your ear, may want to try the tensioner. Then repeat on the valve cover. You should be able to tell where it is coming from that way.

[bmwman91]

It still blows my mind that this is such an issue. The M42 seems so well designed in other respects...this is such a big oversight! I have a couple of stripped upper pan bolt holes, and I REALLY need to helicoil them. Happens to be the 2 adjacent to the pickup, too. I do nto want ANOTHER pooped oiling system, I am not sure if the motor can take another one!

[91318isguy]

Sheep, have you gotten any information back from BMW dealing with this issue being so wide spread? I had to pick up some rotor locator bolts and decided to talk to the maintenance manager. He mentioned that since it is showing itself as a wider issue than one or two owners we should start with BMW NA and they would (at least in my case) send it on to Atlanta and they would take a look at it. The number he gave me is 800-831-1117.

I also talked to one of the maintenance techs there who has been there for a long time. He mentioned that the place where the head gasket leaks is where the gasket goes from the head through the timing chain cover area. He said that it's worth a try giving BMW NA this information as well. Toyota's V6 from the 90's have head gasket issues and come to find out, Toyota put out a bulletin covering the first blown head gasket to be replaced free of cost. Maybe with a little persuation we can get together and see if corporate will make this a bulletin as well.

BMWman - as far as durability, I was talking to the same maintenance guy at the dealership and he told me about a guy bringing his M42 in for engine failure after 6 months. Come to find out he pissed someone off and they poured gravel into the engine through the oil filler cap. He said after looking at it, the only thing that made the engine fail was that for 6 months the engine ground the gravel into a fine powder and when the powder got into the oil pump, that's when it failed. It's pretty obvious we have a very durable engine.

I'll be checking back later.

[sheepdog]

Sheep, have you gotten any information back from BMW dealing with this issue being so wide spread? I had to pick up some rotor locator bolts and decided to talk to the maintenance manager. He mentioned that since it is showing itself as a wider issue than one or two owners we should start with BMW NA and they would (at least in my case) send it on to Atlanta and they would take a look at it. The number he gave me is 800-831-1117.

I also talked to one of the maintenance techs there who has been there for a long time. He mentioned that the place where the head gasket leaks is where the gasket goes from the head through the timing chain cover area. He said that it's worth a try giving BMW NA this information as well. Toyota's V6 from the 90's have head gasket issues and come to find out, Toyota put out a bulletin covering the first blown head gasket to be replaced free of cost. Maybe with a little persuation we can get together and see if corporate will make this a bulletin as well.

BMWman - as far as durability, I was talking to the same maintenance guy at the dealership and he told me about a guy bringing his M42 in for engine failure after 6 months. Come to find out he pissed someone off and they poured gravel into the engine through the oil filler cap. He said after looking at it, the only thing that made the engine fail was that for 6 months the engine ground the gravel into a fine powder and when the powder got into the oil pump, that's when it failed. It's pretty obvious we have a very durable engine.

I'll be checking back later.
BMWNA is not likely to care about a 15+ year old car. It served its expected lifespan and then some. They may put out a bulletin saying to check it when they come in for servicing, but that is likely all. Not saying they will do nothing but if the 5 series guys have had no luck, I doubt we will.

There are far more than 2 or 3 members here who have had the problem. I know of at least 4 engines that have failed from bolts falling out, and the number of members who have had bolts in their pans are probably into the dozens.

The gasket he was talking about is the Profile gasket, and it was fixed years ago.

The Profile gasket creates another issue though. Many of our cars had this replaced, and when they did it, the pan was pulled. BMW itself may not be entirely at fault for the bolts falling out as much as many of the dealers are.

I will try and put together some info for BMWNA though and see what they will say about it.


And I am sorry, but I cannot imagine that you could not tell something was wrong with an engine with a cup of gravel or sand in it. Should have made a hell of a racket, and where was this guys oil changes?

[91318isguy]

Good thought. He said the guy mentioned alot of noise (dumb@$$), but thought the car sounded like that. Idiot. Anyway. Hope something can happen. Did your engine suffer any damage?

[sheepdog]

Good thought. He said the guy mentioned alot of noise (dumb@$$), but thought the car sounded like that. Idiot. Anyway. Hope something can happen. Did your engine suffer any damage?

Nope.
Biggest concern would be a spun bearing, but it takes a bit for that.

I am sure if you took the bottom end apart and looked you would probably find some scarring, but nothing serious. I had good oil in it when it happened plus it was shut off fast.

[Asserti]

I am the founders of this board so thankfull for founding such a great place, giving information and warning fellow M42 owners!

I bought my first 318is with 223.000 km's (don't really know the conversion to miles) That engine failed due to not renewing the chain tensioner. Buying a second engine was cheaper than repairing. Because I doesn't want the same thing happen twice, I removed my lower oil pan yesterday and I found... 3 loose bolts.

Engine has only 137.000km's (so the odometer says :p)

I need to lift the engine to remove the upper low pan I guess?

[romkasponka]

I need to lift the engine to remove the upper low pan I guess?

there is no nead to do it if you do not want to replace gasket, just use thread locker.

[sheepdog]

I am the founders of this board so thankfull for founding such a great place, giving information and warning fellow M42 owners!

I bought my first 318is with 223.000 km's (don't really know the conversion to miles) That engine failed due to not renewing the chain tensioner. Buying a second engine was cheaper than repairing. Because I doesn't want the same thing happen twice, I removed my lower oil pan yesterday and I found... 3 loose bolts.

Engine has only 137.000km's (so the odometer says :p)

I need to lift the engine to remove the upper low pan I guess?

Lower pan can be done without lifting the engine.
This is all that is needed to do the check and repair.

[Asserti]

okay thanks, but I'm also going to check the gasket of the upper pan, just to be sure.

Can I lift the engine enough when I remove only the bolts of the engine mounts? Or do I also need to release the bolts from the tranny? How much does it needs to be lifted?

thx in advance!

[sheepdog]

okay thanks, but I'm also going to check the gasket of the upper pan, just to be sure.

Can I lift the engine enough when I remove only the bolts of the engine mounts? Or do I also need to release the bolts from the tranny? How much does it needs to be lifted?

thx in advance!

If you intend to do anything with the upper pan. Don't.

Unless it is leaking or showing signs that it moved, I would not mess with it as it is best left alone.

To get it in and out, you can unbolt the right side motor mount from the frame (passenger in the US) and lift the motor by using a jack against that. Problem is, this is dangerous as it could fall, and you will be spending time scraping out the old gasket. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Do all this, and then you still need to get the new one in there with some sealant. Not an easy job.



Just pull the lower pan, check for debris and make sure the upper pan bolts inside there are good, then close it back up.

[Asserti]

very good and usefull information, thank you very very much!

I was planning it because I had 3 lose bolts. I just want to check that the gasket hasn't moved. A friend told me into this, just in case.. But since you think that it isn't necessary, I think I won't be bothered eather.

For installing the lower half, just a new gasket will do, or do I need to apply some sealant? (what kind, brand?)

I am getting to know the M42 a bit, I removed the head from my first, and swapped my second :) I can use an engine jack (crane?) for the job.

Anyway, I felt very lucky when I didn't found any debris of the distribution.

[WARLOCKM42]

Hi guys i run to this old thread by accident and i only want to say one thing:There is an other reason that you have to remove the lower oil sump.I always remove lower oil sump once a year and clean it from the oil deposits so i have tightened those bolds from the very first time since i changed the upper sump gasket too.Therefore i never had this problem plus if it happens i will notice the bolds inside it.Put this procedure in your annual service day and you will never have to worry about it it is easy and fast to do.My car has 240000km and runs like a charm but im having the engine rebuild just for the fun of it.PRECAUTION the best way to keep your engine running whithout problems 1000s of miles.

[Crunk3]

SO i tried taking my oil pan off to check it, I undid all the bolts.
Pan never came off, Gave it a few wacks with a hammer, nothing. Hit it with a 2x4, still nothing, kicked it, still nothing. so i gave up and put the bolts back on. All the bolts i removed looked like they may have had loctite put on them, cause they were all orange looking and it appeared that the oilpan was sealed too cause i could see parts of black sealant. So i donno

[sheepdog]

SO i tried taking my oil pan off to check it, I undid all the bolts.
Pan never came off, Gave it a few wacks with a hammer, nothing. Hit it with a 2x4, still nothing, kicked it, still nothing. so i gave up and put the bolts back on. All the bolts i removed looked like they may have had loctite put on them, cause they were all orange looking and it appeared that the oilpan was sealed too cause i could see parts of black sealant. So i donno

You probably missed a bolt on the back side. Easy to do.

[kowalski]

you shouldn't have too much crap building up in your pan if you do regular oil changes; mine looked like new when i did the bolt check, and i had 3 bolts in the pan... I've got 330,000 km's on the engine, and i had it at 7,350 rpm the other day (stock other then cams, injectors, ferrarri MAF and the haltech management system). i'm building a new motor for it right now tho..

[Crunk3]

You probably missed a bolt on the back side. Easy to do.

I looked over it like 3 times and ran my finger around the edge and felt or saw no bolts

[jwbavalon]

Hi all, thanks for the post.

Pulled the sump to find 4 bolts rolling around and 2 finger tight. As a consulation, the oil pickup bolts were tight. Applied Loctite to all the bolts and torqued to 12nm.

I guess I was lucky.

[sheepdog]

Hi all, thanks for the post.

Pulled the sump to find 4 bolts rolling around and 2 finger tight. As a consulation, the oil pickup bolts were tight. Applied Loctite to all the bolts and torqued to 12nm.

I guess I was lucky.
Damn, you were lucky.

Good work.

[strad]

I did check mine yesterday. Second time I've been in there (first time didn't check the bolts haha). They were below specified torque, but not by much. The pan, though oem with a 90 date cast on it, does show signs of being scraped once. edit: would be helpful to know mileage. It's currently 198k miles.

[bmwpower]

Is there any way to safety wire these bolts together or to something else? Or is Loctite the only way to cure the problem?

[sheepdog]

Is there any way to safety wire these bolts together or to something else? Or is Loctite the only way to cure the problem?

You could call around machine shops or race shops and have the bolts drilled for safety wire. May even be able to find them pre-drilled someplace.

A bit of Locktite and check them every few years is probably more than enough though considering they stayed in there this long. It is not like it is expensive or difficult to check.

[Ruger]

Hi folks, i hate to mine threads but i think because of this thread the m42club has saved my engine from premature failure.

Aussie 1990 318is, 255,00 k's on the clock im going away for a trip tommorrow and wanted to make sure the car was as good as it could be.

I unbolt the lower pan and theres 4 bolts sitting there.... last time i did an oil change was at the mechanics, hes a mate of mine and i mentioned its a common thing and he said hes never heard of it and not to worry. so i sent him a pic of the bolts sitting in the pan lol he was surprised

a bit of loctite to all the bolts and all is well, like other people all the other bolts were only finger tight

thanks folks!!!! you saved me a premature engine rebuild...

but i did find 2 bits of timing chain in the pan aswell..... thats going to have to be assessed fairly quick, what are the chances of it falling apart? god knows how long its been like that for.

[sports.racer]

You could call around machine shops or race shops and have the bolts drilled for safety wire. May even be able to find them pre-drilled someplace.

A bit of Locktite and check them every few years is probably more than enough though considering they stayed in there this long. It is not like it is expensive or difficult to check.

Safety wire DIY:
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0002_hand/index.html

Drilling Jig:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/drillingjig.php

[sheepdog]

Hi folks, i hate to mine threads but i think because of this thread the m42club has saved my engine from premature failure.

Aussie 1990 318is, 255,00 k's on the clock im going away for a trip tommorrow and wanted to make sure the car was as good as it could be.

I unbolt the lower pan and theres 4 bolts sitting there.... last time i did an oil change was at the mechanics, hes a mate of mine and i mentioned its a common thing and he said hes never heard of it and not to worry. so i sent him a pic of the bolts sitting in the pan lol he was surprised

a bit of loctite to all the bolts and all is well, like other people all the other bolts were only finger tight

thanks folks!!!! you saved me a premature engine rebuild...

but i did find 2 bits of timing chain in the pan aswell..... thats going to have to be assessed fairly quick, what are the chances of it falling apart? god knows how long its been like that for.
Good thing you checked and glad we could help.

From what I and a few others have seen, the chain breaking up is not an urgent, must fix now problem. I had a ton in mine before I had a problem. The issue is if you have those bits, PLUS the loose bolts.

It is a chain of events that creates the big problem:
First bolts come loose and some minor chain bits break off. These events are not because of each other and you may have bits in there for years or bolts in there for year, you never know.

The bolts work their way against the pump pickup.

You hit the pan on something. Speed bump, driveway, etc... Mine was a small ramp going over a fire hose when it did the damage I think. When hit, the pan flexes driving the bolt head through the pump screen. You may or may not see anything other than minor scratches on the pan. So do not count on a leak or crack.

Eventually the bolt falls out over time and chain bits get sucked through the hole into the pickup and the oil pump, which then shells (explodes). This usually will happen at a decent rpm, I was at 6k rpm.

At which point it takes about 1/2 second for the oil light to come on, and you will also hear something is wrong. You can probably get away with another 30-40 seconds before you will spin a bearing. I shut mine off immediately, like fraction of a second, but turned it back on for 10-20 seconds to make it up a hill so I could push my way home. Engine was fine. You figure the engine starts with no oil so... More than this though could mean an entire rebuild.

When this does happen and you do not spin a bearing, the parts to repair it can run into the thousands. The parts alone run nearly $1000, in fact the timing chain housing which holds the oil pump is around $300 by itself. Best thing to do is avoid losing the pump and if you do, buy a used engine to cannibalize parts or just swap the engine entirely. I found a used engine for $200, and Bmwman91 got his parts for less than that used. If you do the parts swap instead of the engine swap, be prepared, it is quite an undertaking. Probably easier to do the engine swap.



Basically as long as you do not have loose bolts in the pan, you can put off the timing chain for a bit. I would advise replacing the chain, ALL sprockets and the tensioner, regardless of its age. Be aware you may also need to replace some chain guides. These can double the cost of the job.

[sheepdog]

Thread stickied since this is important and common.

[pbgd3skier]

Interesting issue here.

Now since I do not remember using locktite on those during my engine build up, I'm going to have to do it in my drive way or get the 55 gmc out of there.

Brrr.

[318is93]

Why does realoem show that's my oil pan?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BE63&mospid=47480&btnr=11_1957&hg=11&fg=10

[Zilla]

hey everyone!! I have 188k on my m42 decided to drop the oil pan today and see if there were any loose bolts ( thanks to this sick forum) found 1 in the pan and the rest were finger tight. I just wanted to thank u for giving a priceless piece of information to other m42 entusiats. The internet is truly a great place... Most of the time!! Just wanted to give my thx to those who lost and allowed for us to gain!! -E

[Paul Strefling]

Three bolts in the pan here. All but two of the lower upper pan bolts were lose. The scavenge bolts were also loose.

[RED IS 91]

After reading the HORROR STORIES I decided to pull my lower oil pan this spring during an oil change .With 200,000 miles I was expecting disaster but I had no bolts in the pan .I had two bolts that were finger tight and the others were still factory tight (89 inch pounds). I pulled the two loose ones and used permatex blue upon re installation.
BUT ...................... I did find some chain roller pieces ( see pics ) so it looks like a timing chain job in the future . I'm sure it must be the original chain .
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/oilpan007.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/oilpan003.jpg

[Asserti]

wow, don't wait too long with that timing chain job.

My previous engine had 139k miles on it. No lose bolts in the oilpan, it was one of the first engines, November '89 built.

But! there were a lot of pieces from the timing components in the oilpan, the chain slipped a tooth and all of my intake valves were bent...

[nc_bboy]

Yeah just like Asserti said make sure you do that timing chain job, because I remember when my dad was driving his E36 318is it just suddenly shut off. It was weird because he said he didn't hear anything luckly he was pulling on our street right when it just died. He didn't know at the time what exactly happened but when they took the engine out and opened it up they found out that the timing chain slipped. Intake valves were bent and it was just a massacre lol. Anyways I have the 318is now but I wanted to see does this also apply to the E36 M42's? I just want to make sure because if it does I wanna get this done before I finally start her up after a long years wait.

[e30Andym42]

scarrrryyyyy, too bad i didn't see this weeks ago, when i did the oil change. mine has 99,600 miles on it and i've put about maybe 30 miles on the oil change....i hope this job can hold off until i drive it 3,000 miles so i dnt have to waste my new oil. but theres no use in hiding it, this topic has scared the $h1t out of me :eek:

[sheepdog]

scarrrryyyyy, too bad i didn't see this weeks ago, when i did the oil change. mine has 99,600 miles on it and i've put about maybe 30 miles on the oil change....i hope this job can hold off until i drive it 3,000 miles so i dnt have to waste my new oil. but theres no use in hiding it, this topic has scared the $h1t out of me :eek:

If your engine is quiet, then you will likely be okay, if it is noisy, I would open it up.

[Alexx]

Is there a torque sequence to follow if I replace the lower oil pan gasket ?

[swiss318is]

scarrrryyyyy, too bad i didn't see this weeks ago, when i did the oil change. mine has 99,600 miles on it and i've put about maybe 30 miles on the oil change....i hope this job can hold off until i drive it 3,000 miles so i dnt have to waste my new oil. but theres no use in hiding it, this topic has scared the $h1t out of me :eek:

hehehe.. you can drain your oil in a tank, have a look on this bolts and then refill the engine again...!!no waist..

[Vorpal]

I just did the job last night when I changed my oil for the first time (I just got the car a week ago). I was actually surprised to see ALL upper pan bolts still in place! Still, I removed the three bolts around the oil pickup tube and Loctite'ed them and retorqued them, then retorqued (without Loctite) the remaining bolts. I probably should have removed and Loctite'ed all of the bolts, but it was very late and I was bone tired and just wanted to finish. Plus I figured that if the bolts have stayed in for 166k+ miles, they would probably be fine :)

Is there a torque sequence to follow if I replace the lower oil pan gasket ?

If there is, it really makes no sense. The pan is under no particular stress and the bolts have very low torque on them, so I see no need. Just skip around on opposite sides of the pan when you re-torque, that's what I did.

-Winston

[peerless]

I know this thread is regarding the oil pan bolts being lose, but I have heard a few of you mention finding pieces of timing guide components in your oil pan.

Well not to scare you or anything but.......

I am rebuilding a engine for a chap who lost the chain guide, a chunk of it got into the crank gear, rolled over it, slipped the chain, bent all 8 intake valves and seized the motor.

See the square piece with the big teeth marks in it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/peerless/Ernest%20M42/DSCN0286.jpg

Final result, 8 bent intake valves.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/peerless/Ernest%20M42/DSCN0292.jpg

[Zilla]

ouch

[91_318i]

i pulled my lower pan last week and i didnt have any bolts in my pan. they were all tight but a little under spec.

but i found that my pan is cracked in 2 different spots:mad:

[Hondo]

Thank you sheepdog for this info, it really has been helpful. You are pretty good about these things. I apologize in advance for being a newbie. I'm 40-something, work part-time at a body shop, have been doing all my own mechanical repairs since high school.

I bought a 1991 318ic from craigslist. Paid $450 for the car knowing the top was bad and some accident damage (need a passenger side door+partial qtr, anyone?)
Was told it ran fine, but surprise, surprise, when the car was delivered from Cali to PA, there's the awful diesel clacking racket and the oil pressure light stays on. The car DOES run and idle, does not miss out the exhaust. Doesn't run too well under load though. No water in the oil, etc. There's a lot of oil around the oil pans, upper an lower, but the oil level on dipstick is fine. Perhaps someone knew there was a problem and kept driving it? Miles are about 120K.
OK, Say I pull the lower pan, and worst case, the upper pan shifted, the oil pump got fried. I'm pretty good at finding used parts, we have a few "pull ur parts" here, I can find a replacement lower chain cover (since the one in there is probably cracked like yours was) and replace all the timing chain parts with new. I can replace the oil pan gaskets because I suspect something shifted, thus all the oil over the pans.
Since the chain didn't break, can this engine be revived and give me good service? Or should I just scrap it and try to find a new one?
Any checks I can perform to tell before I rip into it?

[sheepdog]

You can rebuild the timing assembly and get it to last a very long time, possibly. The oil light is not a good thing (obviously).

The only way to know the condition is pull the valve cover and check the cam sprockets. Pull a main cap, and do a leakdown test.

You may be better off finding a used motor.

[Hondo]

Sounds like the odds are not in my favor. Well, at least the chain isn't broken.
I'll try compression and leak down tests and go from there. It could be worse, I suppose.

[adam12hicks]

FYI I have a 91 (duh) with 130k on it. I got a new gasket and went ahead and replaced the bolts around the oil pan as well as the drain plug. I opened mine up and everything felt great. No bolts or anything unusual in the pan, and the oil still looked nice and clear. I went ahead and torqued them a little bit on each bolt for good measure, but nothing loose. Whew!

[x5driver]

So I bought an m42 car this last Wednesday everything checked out okay except for an oil leak coming from the upper oil pan bolts, (no big deal) the top of the block was dry. On my way home from work Thursday night the oil pressure light came on so I checked the oil and it was only 1/8 from full, I topped it off just to be sure, the oil light was still on. So I did some reading an found this thread. So I pulled my lower pan to check the upper pan bolts, they were not to spec but seemed to be tight enough to hold the gasket in place.
So now here is my question... What is this in my lower pan. Obviously the dime is there for size reference although looking back at all the money I have dumped into my engines it would be nice to open them up and get it back out. :)
So what is it??
http://home.comcast.net/~harley261/100_2237.jpg

[Hondo]

pieces of your timing chain

[bin_jammin]

Looks like I'm a big winner here. 91 318i with 175,000mi or so on the clock. Had the timing cover profile gasket fail recently and finally got around to fixing it. Got it almost all back together but before I started it I ordered the pan gaskets after reading this thread. Loose bolts and one in the pan. Good looking out gang, looks like my arse is safe for now :D

[xwill112x]

scary....i need to check mine soon!