Motor has thrown in the towel

[dude8383]

SOO...

I'm going to be tearing it down today because the sprockets, guides, rails and chain need to be replaced!

There's one thing thats bothering me though. Once I complete this, I need to align both the block and the head to TDC...HOWEVER, I no longer have the stock flywheel (m20) on the car.

I'm afraid the alignment hole for TDC is not going to be in the same spot as it was before.

What do you guys recommend? Also, any other recommendations as to what I should take care of while I'm in there..

Thanks!!!

[sheepdog]

Run a dial indicator down into the #1 piston. When it tops out...

A rod works too, but is less accurate.

[dude8383]

Run a dial indicator down into the #1 piston. When it tops out...

A rod works too, but is less accurate.

Hmm I can see how the rod would work, but not sure what a dial indicator is...how would i use it?

[bmwman91]

No sweat man, I had the same issue.

Liek Sheepdog said, you can use either of those methods. With someone helping you, you can get the crank within a fraction of a degree of TDC...with patience you can get it positioned well enough that you will have nothing to worry about. Just don't rush it.

The dial indicator he refers to is not something a lot of people have alying around, and it is not a cheap tool. I say try the luck with a welding rod lol.

[Febi Guibo]

boy doesn't it suck when something just goes and quits on you!!?

[dude8383]

boy doesn't it suck when something just goes and quits on you!!?

you ass.

how's everything?

[dude8383]

Some pics of the tear down:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2328/1556534392_b2cf827820_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2318/1555661015_b3f975fa4d_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2066/1556534692_47f7ce5fee_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/1556534892_673573caa9_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/1555661517_36630e4965_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2156/1556535266_385809e259_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/1555661985_79ce4202f5_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2327/1556535710_12c25b1e9f_o.jpg

Is this TDC?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2337/1556536296_b63530275f_o.jpg

The yummy bits...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2161/1556536682_9f03382546_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/1556536884_98b79cf6c4_o.jpg

What I managed to take out..waiting to the crankshaft locking tool to come in

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/1556537046_6261973286_o.jpg

[sheepdog]

Those upper sprockets were toast. I am surprised you are not missing rollers from the chain.

Also, were you missing some guides? Seems odd that it wore into the timing chain housing so bad. Or was it driven for a bit after they broke?

But yeah, with those sprockets, only a matter of time.


Also, that mark (interesting) would make sense for TDC. I will check my e36 motor and see if it is. I take it that mark is on the oil filter piece? And if it is TDC, I may have to re-check timing on my motor, not sure it is correct.

[cenotaph]

are those dual sprockets really necessary? My vr6 only has single upper chain. I wonder if you can delete one.

[sheepdog]

Metric Mechanic I believe offers a single row.

[sports.racer]

The dial indicator he refers to is not something a lot of people have alying around, and it is not a cheap tool. I say try the luck with a welding rod lol.

Dial indicators don't cost that much.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93051
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=5646
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=623

[sheepdog]

I would not trust Harbor freight for anything precision, but in this case it should work fine.

[sports.racer]

Well everyone has an opinion but I rebuilt the engine on the Reynard mentioned in this article about three years ago using HF dials and indicators and the engine is still running fine.

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/images/2007/sizzler07/waiting_matt.jpg

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/sizzler_07.html

[dude8383]

Indeed, I replaced them with fresh ones.

I am missing the left guide, which I have replaced as well, I'll try to get some pics of the remaining pieces of the guide.

I was driving when this happened, so I kinda limped it home. I imagine this must have done the damage.

Those upper sprockets were toast. I am surprised you are not missing rollers from the chain.

Also, were you missing some guides? Seems odd that it wore into the timing chain housing so bad. Or was it driven for a bit after they broke?

But yeah, with those sprockets, only a matter of time.


Also, that mark (interesting) would make sense for TDC. I will check my e36 motor and see if it is. I take it that mark is on the oil filter piece? And if it is TDC, I may have to re-check timing on my motor, not sure it is correct.


How do I actually use the dial indicator?

I buttoned everything back up, and well...it doesn't good AT ALL.

Strange thing is, it holds idle nice and steady, but there's a metallic noise, kinda like the camshaft lobes hitting the lifters really hard.

I aligned the cams to TDC with the tool, and I did my best to get TDC on the block.

I'm obviously going to tear it down tomorrow again and take a look...

Do you guys have any suggestions?

Is it possible that when the guide shattered, the timing chain skipped a tooth and caused the valves to smack the pistons? I mean...it wouldn't hold idle, would it?

I'm pissed to say the least :)

[dude8383]

Alright, so I found out what it is...I missed TDC by a bit.

Hopefully I didn't do any damage, anyways, here's the pic.

[sports.racer]

http://www.rebuildingrotaryengines.com/videos/using_dial_indicators
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Measurement/Dial_indicators/Dial_indicators.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_indicator

[sheepdog]

Well everyone has an opinion but I rebuilt the engine on the Reynard mentioned in this article about three years ago using HF dials and indicators and the engine is still running fine.

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/images/2007/sizzler07/waiting_matt.jpg

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/sizzler_07.html

Actually, you can be off by quite a bit on an engine and not be a problem.

Looks like fun.

[dude8383]

FIXED!

Took about 2.5hrs to tear down and put back together :)

Runs smoooooth :D

Thanks for all the help fella's!

[sheepdog]

FIXED!

Took about 2.5hrs to tear down and put back together :)

Runs smoooooth :D

Thanks for all the help fella's!

2.5 hours?
What the hell?

[Vladi]

Beer and lunch breaks included. :D

[dude8383]

2.5 hours?
What the hell?

Well, it was at night, I was exhaust from the tear down earlier.

Whats the avg time to put it all back together?

[christophbmw]

Well, it was at night, I was exhaust from the tear down earlier.

Whats the avg time to put it all back together?
a 8-10 day (taking your time).

[sheepdog]

Well, it was at night, I was exhaust from the tear down earlier.

Whats the avg time to put it all back together?

A lot more than 2.5 hours.

[dude8383]

A lot more than 2.5 hours.

I didn't tear the whole thing apart...valve cover, upper timing case, t-stat housing, water pump and then obviously adjusted the timing and putting everything back together...

2.5 is just about right no?

OH and the gaskets..

[denious]

Sure you didn't forget the gaskets? :P

[2002maniac]

How do I actually use the dial indicator?

In this cased you would need an indicator with a rod long enough to reach the piston through the spark plug hole. What you do is stick it down the hole and turn the crank until the piston is at TDC according to the indicator.

HF indicators really do suck but should be fine for timing a motor. Just don't try to measure bearing clearances with HF micrometers :eek:

I work in a CNC shop and use these types of tools on a regular basis.

[dude8383]

Very funny! I made sure none were skipped! The car is running beautifully :)

[achtungE30]

Wow man, glad to hear you made a quick comeback on this one!

[dude8383]

Wow man, glad to hear you made a quick comeback on this one!

Thanks man!

Yeh I wanted thing to be done in one day because I had to pick up my pops from the airport!