solid lifters

[kowalski]

where would i get solid lifters from for the m42?

[1991318is]

where would i get solid lifters from for the m42?
no idea but those can fail easily and take a tole on the motor internals from experience.

[kowalski]

no idea but those can fail easily and take a tole on the motor internals from experience.

oh? that doesn't sound like much fun... i'v thrown a rod before and that kinda sucked... id hate to have that kind of issue with an 8,000 engine... what happend to you?

[bmwman91]

Euro S50. The parts are a direct swap. Now as far as plugging the oil feeds, beats me. I guess you will need to do some custom work there.

Pros:
Higher revving valvetrain (well, it is allowed to revv higher if the rest of the motor can)

Cons:
Can be noisy
Require shimming every 15k miles or so for peak performance

I guess once the crank damper shattering at 7200RPM thing has been cleared up we will know if converting is even worth the effort. And if it can survuve, I guess someone has to be a guinea pig & see how high the internals can go before shattering.

[kowalski]

so how would the solid lifters get oil if you plug the feeds? wouldn't you need an oil distribution point somwhere in there to provide lubrication? or how do they work? i'll be getting a custom dampener made so that wont be a problem. i just want some more information on the lifters, i dont want to drop somthing that i know nothing about in, and then bump the redline to 8,000+ and have a lifter explode.

[asubimmer]

dang I would love to hear a m42 at 8k. 7k sounds pretty mean w/ a cone filter

[kowalski]

dang I would love to hear a m42 at 8k. 7k sounds pretty mean w/ a cone filter

i know how ya feel:) which is part of the reason i want it to go over 8! but i don't want to risk somthing like that happening...

[2002maniac]

What would you do for a camshaft? Solid lifter motors have much different cam profiles than engines with hydraulic lifters.

[bmwman91]

so how would the solid lifters get oil if you plug the feeds? wouldn't you need an oil distribution point somwhere in there to provide lubrication? or how do they work? i'll be getting a custom dampener made so that wont be a problem. i just want some more information on the lifters, i dont want to drop somthing that i know nothing about in, and then bump the redline to 8,000+ and have a lifter explode.

You would leave the oil outlets that get the cams/lifter tops. You would have to plug the passages that feed the hydraulic lifters to keep them pumped.

[kowalski]

What would you do for a camshaft? Solid lifter motors have much different cam profiles than engines with hydraulic lifters.

i have a friend who grinds cams for a living, thats where i got the set im running right now. i also have 2 extra sets of cams in my room ready for regrinding, so it shouldn't be a problem.

[kowalski]

You would leave the oil outlets that get the cams/lifter tops. You would have to plug the passages that feed the hydraulic lifters to keep them pumped.

ohh ok, that makes sense then. i thought you meant to clog all of the passages and that kinda made me worried:D

[Febi Guibo]

try beehive valve springs before fitting the solid lifters...

and let me know if they work!! :)

[tim_s]

Euro S50. The parts are a direct swap.
this is what i've been thinking of trying. Which euro S50 ones are a direct fit bmwman?

[bmwman91]

this is what i've been thinking of trying. Which euro S50 ones are a direct fit bmwman?

Well, from what I remember, it was from the 1995 S50. I am not sure what years they produced it from over there though (you lucky guys, got the REAL S50, the US just got a souped-up M50).

[rwinter]

Dave Rebello is building me a 8200 RPM engine with solid lifters. I was worried about the crank damper exploding so I designed my own crank pulley. It weighs about 2.4lbs- pretty light although its solid steel. I designed it to underdrive by approx. 20% which will free up some power and also keep the waterpump impeller from cavitating at high rpm. It should be on the dyno above 8000 in a week or so. What do you guys think?

[bmwman91]

Sweet man. So, the crank pulley you made is prettymuch there to drive the water pump and provide an engine speed signal? Does not look like it'll provide any damping, so did you have the crank balanced?

You stuck with the 60-2 setup, which is a good thing. What engine management system are you going with?

[kowalski]

i'v got a question, is there any rollerized lifters available?
how much did that pulley cost to make/?

[tim_s]

Well, from what I remember, it was from the 1995 S50. I am not sure what years they produced it from over there though (you lucky guys, got the REAL S50, the US just got a souped-up M50).

lol, did you deliberately pick the crossover year!? :p
you're not wrong though, the euro s50 is one hell of an engine.

[2002maniac]

lol, did you deliberately pick the crossover year!? :p
you're not wrong though, the euro s50 is one hell of an engine.

as far as I know it is the S50B30 lifters that will work. 92-95

Cams? kowalski's friend grinds cams. What profile would you use? I think the only way to do it would be to use the S50B30 cams as a master.

[2002maniac]

i'v got a question, is there any rollerized lifters available?
how much did that pulley cost to make/?
roller lifters wouldnt really work in an M42.

[2002maniac]

Dave Rebello is building me a 8200 RPM engine with solid lifters. I was worried about the crank damper exploding so I designed my own crank pulley. It weighs about 2.4lbs- pretty light although its solid steel. I designed it to underdrive by approx. 20% which will free up some power and also keep the waterpump impeller from cavitating at high rpm. It should be on the dyno above 8000 in a week or so. What do you guys think?

i like the pulley a lot. did you have the teeth cut with laser/water or were they done on an indexing mill?

Have the step file? ;)

[kowalski]

as far as I know it is the S50B30 lifters that will work. 92-95

Cams? kowalski's friend grinds cams. What profile would you use? I think the only way to do it would be to use the S50B30 cams as a master.

yeah he does, he's got a few profiles for the m42 so i'm gona go talk to him and see what hes got. its a 1 hour drive so i probably wont get arround to it after i'm back from europe, which i leave for in 7 days...

[tim_s]

as far as I know it is the S50B30 lifters that will work. 92-95

Cams? kowalski's friend grinds cams. What profile would you use? I think the only way to do it would be to use the S50B30 cams as a master.

i don't know. why are the cams different?

[rwinter]

Thanks very much for all the nice comments!!

Thats right, this is not a damper. Dave did balance the engine. However from what I have read the crank damper's purpose is to damp harmonic vibrations that are excited by the flexing of the crankshaft which occurs when the piston delivers its power stroke. From talking to Dave and to a guy at VAC motorsports, on the 4 cylinder BMW engines you can get by without a damper because the cranks are short in length and very strong. I have also read not to try to go without a damper on a 6 cylinder! The extra length of the 6 cylinder crank adds up to increased flexing from the flywheel to the front pulley. Things get worse as you get farther from the flywheel. I would eventually like to design a damper that doesn't explode for the M42 engine but that's a bigger project and this pulley should allow the engine to rev well above 7200. I will let you know!

I had a friend machine this pulley. It was turned and then the teeth were milled. He gave me a cheaper price than you could probably find elsewhere, a friendship thing. Dave Rebello showed some interest for his other customers- so I am having the pulley quoted at a CNC machine shop. Before I get too far, I want to make sure its solid and problem free. After that I may ask how many people would want one on this list and then come up with a price based on my estimated quantity.

Oh yeah, I am going with electromotive management system but designed the pulley to work with stock system if desired. I have two versions... its a long story. Does anyone have electromotive, and are you happy with it? Is it easy to make adjustments?

[kowalski]

i'm currious if you have the program for the CNC on hand, if so would you be willing to email it to me?

[rwinter]

Sorry, I don't have the cnc program.

[tim_s]

2002maniac, you any ideas about the difference between cams? whats the deal with the stuff you were saying earlier? just trying to work it through, if we keep same valve length and the solid lifters are the same size as the hyds, don't see what the issue is?

[2002maniac]

Well I'm no engineer, but in my experience with 8v vw's I know that you run a much more aggressive cam with solid lifters than hydaulic. I would assume this to be the case with our motors but take everything I say with a grain of salt ;)

[2002maniac]

If the vehicle is intended for normal street use. i.e. with a stable engine idle and the ability to pass an emissions test (idle to lower rpm range), it is important to consider a small valve lift at TDC.

This table gives a guideline for valve lift at TDC.

2 Valve engines with solid lifters 2.3mm

4 Valve engines with solid lifters 1.5mm

2 Valve engines with hydraulic lifters 1.9mm

4 Valve engines with hydraulic lifters 1.1mm

When these values are exceeded, the engine idle will become increasingly unstable and the torque delivery in the lower rpm range be noticeably weaker.

Camshafts with larger valve duration's, and a resulting higher valve lift at TDC, should only be considered for racing applications, or when each cylinder has it's own butterfly valve i.e. 2 twin-choke carburettors on a 4 cylinder engine.

Schrick camshafts for S50B30US 264/256 (hydro lifters)
Schrick camshafts for S50B30 284/284 (solid lifters)

I dont have any science to back this up but it seems that solid lifters allow for more lift and duration.

[kowalski]

mhmm, sounds like i already have cams for this... i'v got a muscle car idle right now.

[tim_s]

haha i come from VW circles too! the reason for the different hyd and mech veedub camshafts was different valve lengths in relation to the cam IIRC so they were a completely different profile on the cams - it isn't an issue of lift and duration, they simply aren't interchangeable as the valves won't lift properly. that shouldn't be an issue on ours though as long as the lifters are the same dimensions.
as for the euro S50B30 the reason for the aggressive cams on the euro model are it has ITBs so you don't have the idle pressure problems associated with a single throttle and wild cams. there really is no comparison between the US and euro motors, they are completely different, and the hyd. lifters aren't the issue.
solid lifters will allow for more lift from factory than hyds though

[2002maniac]

Thanks for clearing that up Tim.

[jbuttenshaw]

Why do you need to block the oil feed? wouldn;t the oil just be blocked by the solid lifter thus be the same as with a hydro lifter?

[rob_e30]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but has someone here actually built a solid lifter M42 head?