The mess under the intake

[tjts1]

This is a continuation of my renovation thread for my 318i
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2676
At this point I'm in the process of eliminating the Medusa of hoses under the intake.

Here it is in all its ugly glory.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/205/493177227_4d3a9ece47_o.jpg

138k miles and 17 years.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/493177133_60e5b2dbe3_o.jpg

Lets count the leaks.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/493158600_02a6653204.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/493158584_d7c5a17ad7.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/493158566_530a270e3d.jpg

Virtually every hose is split at both ends.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/493177161_d467e8aee6.jpg

None of this stuff is going back into the car.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/493158496_c1212245fb.jpg

I'm sure this is a familiar sight to many of you.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/493158356_ca0a97f370.jpg

This is the #1 port after cleaning out about 1/4" thick layer of sludge all around the port.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/493158474_48dc090e42.jpg

For contrast: 2 clean ports in the foreground and 2 dirty in the background. The picture doesn't do it justice. That stuff is nasty, thick sticky and smelly. I will add a catch can to the new vent hose in order to separate the oil oil before it hits the intake.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/222/493180683_6b681ac4b2_o.jpg

Freshy fresh parts from FCPgroton and Pelican. The first one to name all the parts correctly gets a special prize.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/493160060_39f037cba2_o.jpg

[john318isau]

Control arm x 2, control arm bushes x 2, radiator hose x 2, heater hose, engine mount, auxillary belts x 2, inlet manifold gaskets x 2, throttle body gasket, cardboard box?

[tjts1]

Congratulations. You win milk and cookies. Enjoy :D
http://www.onlyinhouston.org/attachments/wysiwyg/50/Image/food_cookies&milk.jpg

[gearheadE30]

Holy crap that's a lot of sludge! Where does all that oil come from?

I should probly take off my manifold, hasn't been done in 200k miles ;). How difficult is it do remove?

[FL318is]

That is scary! :eek:

[kowalski]

mine was no where near that bad. however the catch can is a good idea, thats one of the things i'm gona do when i get home.

[tjts1]

Holy crap that's a lot of sludge! Where does all that oil come from?

I should probly take off my manifold, hasn't been done in 200k miles ;). How difficult is it do remove?

Its sort of a frustrating process because you don't have access to the hoses holdind the TB plates and fuel lines for example. But if you are willing to cut hoses with reckless abandon, you should have it all out in about 1 hours. This includes time to ponder "WTF is that?"

[chris325ix]

I know it's crazy but I can't wait to get a 318is so I can take apart the upper portion of the motor and replace all the worn out stuff like that... lol!

[Alpine003]

That kind of sludge is normal if you use regular dino oil, use poor fuel, drive the car hard all the time, have vacuum issues, and high mileage in general.

[tjts1]

Now that all the hoses are out, you can see where the long coolant run begins on the side of the head between cyl 2 and 3, and ends at the coolant return pipe on the side of the block.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/495150433_e5fae4f1df_o.jpg

The coolant bypass is made out of a 1 foot long piece of 5/8" heater hose.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg

And finally the lower intake reinstalled.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/495115032_9489d7e1d8_o.jpg

[christophbmw]

replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)

[tjts1]

Hmmm, does that part fail often? It looked solid to me but who knows. I already have lower intake in so I think i'll keep it for a while. Thanks for the tip.

The whole cooling system on this car is insane. I've counted at least 20 hoses on the side of the engine. WTF were these people thinking? A normal cooling system needs 4 hoses. 2 for the radiator and 2 for the heater. Thats it. I guess K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) doesn't translate well into German.

[oldtimer]

You are lucky that you got all the parts you need to replace some aging parts. When I got my 1991 318is I noticed the same things so I ordered them through Pelican, one out o seven tubes was correct and wrong intake manifold gasket. Had to rely on the dealer to finish the job. Going to the dealer I had two legs it was hard to drive the Boxster S with one leg. Parts at the delear were on the high side.

I am sure most of you knows this. But to clean something like that, use "white Gas". The same gas used on camping stove and lamps. I take photos of my engine bay to show result from doing the same thing you are doing.

Ben

[kowalski]

post up some pics. i want to see how clean this stuff gets things.

[romkasponka]

http://bp2.blogger.com/_MjQwpLOTuIM/Rkdbri1_SrI/AAAAAAAAAA0/SSQJGjBhcqk/s1600-h/IMG_0278.jpg

[kowalski]

interesting catch can. did you just plug the hose on the rubber elbow and make the crank vent go straight into the cup?

[romkasponka]

interesting catch can. did you just plug the hose on the rubber elbow and make the crank vent go straight into the cup?

yes,

there is no oil in the SPRITE cup, just some water in cold season ;)

[thebigbadyeti]

While your cleaning everything up...clean up that motor as well :).... lol...

[kowalski]

yes,

there is no oil in the SPRITE cup, just some water in cold season ;)

gotch ya. I'll probably do this... does it not act up at all? usually with a crankcase leak it gets unhappy...?

[oldtimer]

Will do once I figure out how to attach photos to my reply.

[FL318is]

Will do once I figure out how to attach photos to my reply.

When you post a reply, scroll down below until you see Manage Attachments and there you have it.

[romkasponka]

gotch ya. I'll probably do this... does it not act up at all? usually with a crankcase leak it gets unhappy...?

no any leaks, the engine is after complete rebuild..

[tjts1]

Quick and dirty catch can (read fuel filter) until I find something more appropriate and I relocated the ICV (zip ties FTW!) because BMW's placement was stupid. More importantly, vacuum hoses are within easy reach without having to remove the whole intake.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/497586486_33da7d22bf_o.jpg

[romkasponka]

where other end of filter is connected??

[kowalski]

no any leaks, the engine is after complete rebuild..


but doesn't that catch can with the hose in it basically act the same as a crank case leak, as its the valve cover vent.

[romkasponka]

but doesn't that catch can with the hose in it basically act the same as a crank case leak, as its the valve cover vent.

yes, but I cant understand your mind :)

[tjts1]

where other end of filter is connected??
Under the rubber elbow between the air meter to the throttle body where the crankcase ventilation normally ends.

[D. Clay]

Most in line catch cans are sealed and not usually part of the PCV system. To work they would need to be similar to a water trap in a diesel fuel line. They must be periodically drained.
Where does air enter the crankcase on an M42? It exits from the valve cover to the throttle body?

[tjts1]

Where does air enter the crankcase on an M42? It exits from the valve cover to the throttle body?
Its a sealed system. As far as I can tell it doesn't take in fresh air anywhere. It just has an outlet for the blow by gases that get around the piston rings. If there was fresh air coming in, it would act like a vacuum lean and mess with the engine management. The blow by gases have already been burned in the combustion chamber and therefore contain no oxygen. Its a very toxic inert gas.

This is the catch can I use on my volvo. Its a high pressure air filter for pneumatic industrial machinery. Its very effective. Eventually I'll get another one for the BMW.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/498425195_19bdcfbb4f.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/498383198_a131c6b2f1.jpg

[Alpine003]

http://bp2.blogger.com/_MjQwpLOTuIM/Rkdbri1_SrI/AAAAAAAAAA0/SSQJGjBhcqk/s1600-h/IMG_0278.jpg

Lol, that's almost as bad as this:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/8/web/452000-452999/452640_24_full.jpg

No need to substitute all sorts of non car gizmos for this as Jegs or Summit carries catch cans for cheap.

Or if you wanna go for the bling: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-Reservoir-Catch-Can-Tank-Mustang-GT-Probe-ZX2-SILVR_W0QQitemZ280113147994QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6778 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

IMO, catch cans are really only needed if you do a lot of track events or drive fast on the highway for extended periods of time on a daily basis. Obviously if you have some sort of forced induction, then it's a must.

[D. Clay]

Or if you wanna go for the bling: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-Reservoir-Catch-Can-Tank-Mustang-GT-Probe-ZX2-SILVR_W0QQitemZ280113147994QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6778 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Gotta have the bling-bling!
I've had Hondas that took in air and had a metering jet into the intake. I also had Volvo 240 with a "Spark Arrester" instead of a PCV valve. It clogged up and blew out all the seals. It looks like in tjts1's pics that there may some serious blow by going on. Hope I'm wrong.

[tjts1]

The 240 actually has very little blow by or oil burn off. It consumes about 1 quart in 7k miles. The flame trap mechanism is pathetic on those cars. But everything that gets by the flame trap tends to stick to the TB and intake. After 100k miles it turns into a horrible mess and starts to restrict air flow. Thats the last thing you want on the low power B230.

[1991 E30 M42]

Holy crap that's a lot of sludge! Where does all that oil come from?


Maybe the the crank case vent that goes into the bottom of the throttle body.

[kowalski]

yes, but I cant understand your mind :)

hahaha, k ill explain myself. If you start your engine, and take off the oil cap it runs rough because its venting air. If you vent the valve cover into the open air it would have the same effect would it not? or is it because that vacume line is linked to the intake that having the oil cap off causes it to run rough simulating a vacume leak? Basically what i'm getting at is does this oil catch can that you'v got there simulate a crank case leak due to an open line?

[tjts1]

Both ends of the oil catch can are are connected to a closed system. One end of the catch can is connected to the valve cover, the other is connected to the intake tube. The gases coming out of the valve cover to the catch are inert. There is no oxygen. If there are no vacuum leaks, the gases coming out of the valve cover are a combination of oil fumes, inert blow by gases that got around the piston rings and a little bit of moisture.
or is it because that vacume line is linked to the intake that having the oil cap off causes it to run rough simulating a vacume leak?
Yes!

[romkasponka]

hahaha, k ill explain myself. If you start your engine, and take off the oil cap it runs rough because its venting air. If you vent the valve cover into the open air it would have the same effect would it not? or is it because that vacume line is linked to the intake that having the oil cap off causes it to run rough simulating a vacume leak? Basically what i'm getting at is does this oil catch can that you'v got there simulate a crank case leak due to an open line?

I instaled plug where it is connected to the intake and there is no leak.

[kowalski]

perfect, i understand now:)

so technically there should be some sort of performance gain by removing these non usable gases out of the system... however small they may be.

[tjts1]

I suppose on an all out track car I would allow the crankcase to vent directly to the atmosphere but on a street car you will get a whiff of some very nasty carcinogenic odors every time you are sitting at a light. Some motorcycles and track cars actually vent the crankcase into the exhaust through a one way valve. The gases rushing through the exhaust can create a bit of a vacuum in the crankcase which can free up a few HP. Venting the crankcase at the mouth of the TB does the same thing to a lesser extent. I personally wouldn't vent the crankcase to the atmosphere but thats just me. The performance gain is simple too small. Keep in mind that this is also very illegal. Connecting the crankcase to the intake was one of the first emissions devices conceived back in the 50s.

[kowalski]

the exhaust idea is good so it vents into the cat.

[dlmrun2002]

I feel your pain. I just did a new engine install and replaced every coolant hose. Plus heater hoses and some vac lines. 200 miles later I see a very small anti freeze leak running down the passenger side of tranny. Just a few drops. Oil cap is not cloudy. Hopefully I"ll find a loose hose-- pleeeeeze
DLM

[zav3n]

replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)

all i can say is wow i should have listened to you!!!!.... plus BMA and the dealship were closed by the time i found out and i need my car tomorrow LMAO..

http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42482.jpg

http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42502.jpg

[oldtimer]

Sorry this photos are late. I said I will take some photos to show you just how clean the "white gas" can get the engine bay clean. Remember oil acts like a bounding solution when dirty like sand and dust clings to it. The white gas defuses pertrolium base substance hence when you spray white in that area it will dis-bond the dirt then all you have to do is spray it with air blow off any sand or dirt that use to be glued together by the oil.


By the way all this new way to catch the extra moisture from the crankcase, isn't that the same when you use the water seperator for your air compressor. If so once in awhile you'll need to drain the water that was collected. For a daily drive that's a lot of work without any major power gain, much like the COP mod a lot of machining and fabricating but no performance gain.

[dude8383]

all i can say is wow i should have listened to you!!!!.... plus BMA and the dealship were closed by the time i found out and i need my car tomorrow LMAO..

http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42482.jpg

http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42502.jpg

What is the part number for this piece?!

I've been trying to figure it out, but the diagram on realoem doesn't give it a number!

[zav3n]

omg i had the hardest time trying to figure this out... pacific BMW acually quoted me 297 dollars and then when i ask for the part number they hung up on me then i ask bma and they got the part right away. and while i was trying to figure it out christophbmw sent me a pm w/ the pn but i checked it to late lol...

hope this helps.!

water pipe : 11 53 1 714 738
o-ring : 11 53 1 709 157



here are some pics of my new set up without the mess.

[tjts1]

Looks like you mounted the ICV above the vac hose to the brakes booster. I have it below. I think I'll re route mine to look more like urs but I was afraid the wiring to the ICV was too short. I put about 100 miles on mine since dropping all that garbage and so far so good. I have my fingers crossed that that plastic pipe doesn't leave me on the side of the road before I replace it. My engine also needs a big dose of cleaning.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/506865750_6961ea3ae2_o.jpg

[zav3n]

ya i was looking for a way to mount the icv and i tried to put it under but i didnt think it would withstand my driving lol.. anyway so far so good ima put a electric fan in soon soo ill have more room too work on the engine..

ps what kind of filter should i use for the catch can i dont want anything fancy just something that works good..

-Zaven

[dude8383]

omg i had the hardest time trying to figure this out... pacific BMW acually quoted me 297 dollars and then when i ask for the part number they hung up on me then i ask bma and they got the part right away. and while i was trying to figure it out christophbmw sent me a pm w/ the pn but i checked it to late lol...

hope this helps.!

water pipe : 11 53 1 714 738
o-ring : 11 53 1 709 157



here are some pics of my new set up without the mess.

Dude...THANK YOU!

I can't tell you how long I've been trying to get those numbers.

[n2motorsports]

The coolant bypass is made out of a 1 foot long piece of 5/8" heater hose.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/495150455_524b5fb898_o.jpg



Based on the above picture, was that the only modification you made under the intake manifold?

btw great write-up and great idea, anything to eliminate clutter while reducing the risk of unexpected leaks is a must do mod for me.

[D. Clay]

http://hohan.cjb.net/itbs/IMG_42502.jpg
What is the part number for this tube. I cannot find it in realoem or bmwfans.info.

[Wise Old Dog]

11531714738 It's listed under the engine housing section.

[tjts1]

Based on the above picture, was that the only modification you made under the intake manifold?

btw great write-up and great idea, anything to eliminate clutter while reducing the risk of unexpected leaks is a must do mod for me.
Basically yes. I just gave the coolant a much shorter route from the head to the return pipe.

[gearheadE30]

I'm going to be removing my intake very soon as well. Is it worth it to take the plate out? Have there been any nagative consequences such as bad cold idle or fuel mileage? My dad thinks I should put it all back as the factory had it, but I'm not sure its worth the troble. Being that we get weather down to about 0 degrees sometimes in the winter, would I have any major problems if I remove it?

Thanks for the advice and the great pics

[tjts1]

I'm going to be removing my intake very soon as well. Is it worth it to take the plate out? Have there been any nagative consequences such as bad cold idle or fuel mileage? My dad thinks I should put it all back as the factory had it, but I'm not sure its worth the troble. Being that we get weather down to about 0 degrees sometimes in the winter, would I have any major problems if I remove it?

Thanks for the advice and the great pics

The plate was a bandaid BMW added after designing the whole engine in order to pass start up emissions in the US. Take a close look at this BMW publicity shots from when the engine was first intruduced. No plate.
http://www.mwerks.com/gallery/albums//BMW/3-Series/3%20Series%20(E30)/3er%20Coupe%20and%20Sedan/002.jpg

I have put about 500 miles on the car without the plate and I'm getting 27mpg.

[e9nine]

I have eliminated the plate twice on m42s with no harmful after effect

[gearheadE30]

Good to know, I think I'll toss it

[christophbmw]

Its a sealed system. As far as I can tell it doesn't take in fresh air anywhere. It just has an outlet for the blow by gases that get around the piston rings. If there was fresh air coming in, it would act like a vacuum lean and mess with the engine management. The blow by gases have already been burned in the combustion chamber and therefore contain no oxygen. Its a very toxic inert gas.

im pretty sure our PCV system goesg throught the timing case up to the valve cover hose wich goes to the TB. and if that line from the valve cover to TB is not tightened with a clamp or if it is cracked and leaking our M42's are usaully prone to rear main failure due to the crank case pressure (or at least thats what ive discovered in my experience). correct me if im wrong.

[Frankie]

replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)

What plastic coolant junction?

[tjts1]

This piece with the green coolant inside.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/495150433_e5fae4f1df_o.jpg

[bmuser]

sorry but what plate are you guys talking about?

[gearheadE30]

It is a plate that is mounted between the throttle body and the upper intake manifold. It looks like an aluminum spacer from the top. I recently learned that it was put there to keep the throttle body from freezing at low temps. Apparently chinks of ice were foring in cold weather testing and blocking the TB so it wouldn't close. I havn't heard of this actually happening to anyone who has removed it, but I guess it was only recorded as occuring below 0 degrees. The plate is also a bit of a restriction in the intake and has 4 or 5 hoses running to 2 different plates that get cracked and leak.

[D. Clay]

What is result of the catch cans mentioned above. Has anyone found them to trap some oil in liquid form or is the "sludge" in the intake condensed vapors?

[FL318i]

where are the 2 rubber hoses coming from the head cover going to, the ones with the filter .....1607

[Wise Old Dog]

The one with the filter goes to the throttle body, the other one goes to the intake boot (elbow).

[FL318i]

well i just deleted the heater plate and did everything just like it said here and now i got a very bad idle, sometimes it even dies on me any idea what could be causing this.?????

[e9nine]

well i just deleted the heater plate and did everything just like it said here and now i got a very bad idle, sometimes it even dies on me any idea what could be causing this.?????

Check to make sure you connected everything the right way.

[FL318i]

i did just like the pictures, but i forgot to mention that this was done at the same time i replace the cxylinder head , since i dont have the tools for cam timing i marked the sprockets and stuff and i put everything back where it was, could this be the problem, maybe the timing is not set right?? or maybe something that had to be done that the pictures are not showing???

[gearheadE30]

I just did the same thing, but my idle got better. Chances are that the timing is off.

[FL318i]

anyone has e tool for that or an idea how much will it cost??

[bmuser]

It is a plate that is mounted between the throttle body and the upper intake manifold. It looks like an aluminum spacer from the top. I recently learned that it was put there to keep the throttle body from freezing at low temps. Apparently chinks of ice were foring in cold weather testing and blocking the TB so it wouldn't close. I havn't heard of this actually happening to anyone who has removed it, but I guess it was only recorded as occuring below 0 degrees. The plate is also a bit of a restriction in the intake and has 4 or 5 hoses running to 2 different plates that get cracked and leak.

So wait, youre saying that if i remove this plate i wont have to replace all of those vacuum hoses? What the OP posted in the first post, the first set of pictures iwth the cracked hoses, I have to replace all of those as well. Pretty much teh same story for me. So are those the 4 to 5 hoses runnig to 2 different plates you are talking about? I dont mean all of them.

Basically why i am confused is that the OP posed the pics of all the cracked hoses, and then a box with new parts and had only 2 hoses in there. And now ure saying that this restrictor plate eliminates some of those vacuum hoses?

[Wise Old Dog]

Removing the heater plate allows you to do a custom re-plumb and eliminate the clutter underneath. But not entirely. You still need 3 hoses, one from the ICV to the intake boot, one from the valve cover to the throttle body, and one that connects the plastic water outlet to the nipple on the head. It does not mean that you get to eliminate everything. The 2 4-way hoses are everyones nightmare, and the first hoses to start falling apart. This allows you to eliminate those 2 hoses. The debate here is weather or not you have to run a hose from the plastic outlet to the nipple on the head. Some don't do it, some do. I will do it next time I have a problem under there. And I will run the hose. I'm not going to chance it. If anyone needs hoses, I have a complete set about 1 1/2 years old that I will sell. Still in excellent condition.

[tjts1]

Wow I didn't realize this old thread was still around. Heres pics from my original project on pages 1 and 2 if it helps anyone.
http://flickr.com/photos/22313969@N00
Keep in mind that we now know that its completely safe to cap off the coolant hose at both ends instead or running a hose between the two ports.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3621
where are the 2 rubber hoses coming from the head cover going to, the ones with the filter .....1607
I no longer have the fuel filter in hose on the lower left corner. Just a piece of hose.
well i just deleted the heater plate and did everything just like it said here and now i got a very bad idle, sometimes it even dies on me any idea what could be causing this.?????
I had a problem for a while after the conversion where the hose between the idle control valve and the intake was collapsing under vacuum at idle which would cause the engine to stall some times. You can see it happy as the hose squishes down. The solution is to use a length of very strong vacuum hose that won't collapse.
good luck

[gearheadE30]

Also, be careful with that plastic joint that comes out of the front of the block. In the pic on this page, it is the pipe with coolant visible. Mine cracked off at 3 of the 4 joints, and I wanted to reuse the reletively new pipes and the plastic broken parts were a pain to remove. The plastic gets brittle over time, so it might be a good idea to pick one up before you get started anyway. Ebay has them for $15, and my dealer had them in stock for $35 without the CCA discount.

[E30nate]

man this thread has been super helpful. one question though. will taking off the coolant plate from the tb make the car not pass smog? i mean the visual part. some smog techs are pretty picky about stuff like that.

[strad]

Find one who isn't. Guaranteed it will fail if the tech is smart enough to know what an M42 is "supposed" to look like.

My father in law was smogging a 454 chevy in CA last summer, and the tech failed it on visual because a small nearly hidden part that has no effect on emissions was not present. That part is NLA from anyone, and we spent the whole day at junkyards finding another 454 that had one that wasn't busted. So yeah, if you get the wrong tech, you're screwed. Keep your old parts lol!

[E30nate]

Find one who isn't. Guaranteed it will fail if the tech is smart enough to know what an M42 is "supposed" to look like.

My father in law was smogging a 454 chevy in CA last summer, and the tech failed it on visual because a small nearly hidden part that has no effect on emissions was not present. That part is NLA from anyone, and we spent the whole day at junkyards finding another 454 that had one that wasn't busted. So yeah, if you get the wrong tech, you're screwed. Keep your old parts lol!


thats what i figured. even though its not really an emissions device, unless you live like an eskimo, most smog techs are stupid like that. il still try it though, if it doesnt pass, il put it back together.

[D. Clay]

http://www.m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1515&d=1189131683
Make it look OEM. Shorten the studs and use hoses with appropriate fittings and connectors. Most likely they will never notice. They will if it looks like "homemade sin".

[tjts1]

Make it look OEM. Shorten the studs and use hoses with appropriate fittings and connectors. Most likely they will never notice. They will if it looks like "homemade sin".
The problem is the smog techs here in California have a book right there in the shop showing them exactly how things are supposed to look including part numbers. Sometimes they pay attention, sometimes they don't. I'm holding on to the heater plate just in case.

[E30nate]

The problem is the smog techs here in California have a book right there in the shop showing them exactly how things are supposed to look including part numbers. Sometimes they pay attention, sometimes they don't. I'm holding on to the heater plate just in case.

thats what i was thinking. i will keep the parts just in case, but i live in a small town with one smog shop. if he says anything i can probably buy him a 12 pack and call it good. but if not, i will have to put it back to stock.

[DaveM-sport]

Removed the heater plates over the weekend. Simple 15min job:)

I like the idea of venting the crankcase gases into the exhaust for an added vacuum.

Just wondering, whats the small pipe that goes in at an angle to the throttle body just underneath the sensor plug.

Just have a blank on both of my cars. Is this something to do with the CAT that ye need to have:confused:

[teamgtnfx01]

i wish i would have seen this thread early because i just took my manifold off today got it beed blasted and clear coated it and replace all those dumb annoying hoses and lines .... wut a bitch it was to do and it was like a puzzle that wa unsolvable wut a pain and now i see this that u don't even realy need all those hoses, im so mad right now but i must say if i was to do it again it wouldn't take as long because that dam throttle plate is getting thrown in the bottle of my tool box and it would be so easy to put everything together with out those dam four way hoses...

[jakeb]

Quick question. Is the coolant that is coming out of the head that then goes into the plate the same temp (or close to it) of the temp of the coolant at the gauge temp sensor? I am planning a 2002 swap and I would bypass all these hoses as well. Most of them on my swap engine look bad, but it would be nice to put a temp sensor in the bypass hose to run my coolant gauge. It will be a autometer gauge.

[n2motorsports]

I want to eliminate all these hoses tonight, will I need any TORX bits to get to those hoses?

Thanks.

[HaNasich]

I want to eliminate all these hoses tonight, will I need any TORX bits to get to those hoses?

Thanks.

No torx in the game.
i just took apart the inlet intake today from my M42, only 10,11,12 and 13 were used, all metrics.
no torx.


Ron.

[Asserti]

So, any updates on this?

Capping the nipple at the cilinder head off or not? Anyone with troubles this winter or not? Adding the oil pickup or not?

Seems very interesting to do, but I'm a bit sceptic for doing things not the OEM way.

[n2motorsports]

I capped it without any issues, but we have very mild winters here in southern california.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/n2motorsports/cap.jpg

[ClodKing]

Any more updates on this??

The heater plates are what I am most curious about... Since I live in Canada these might be usefull to me...

You guys were saying they were meant for temperatures below 0 degrees. Was that Celcious, or Farenheit???

Because it's dropped down to -20C with the windchill, so I might want to keep those plates...

[nomad]

You can bypass it without really removing the heater plate. Just bypass it with the hoses and reassemble everything the way it was. If you are really worried though, just buy some new OEM hoses and leave it as is.

I bypassed mine and removed all that stuff. I used a new OEM hose that goes to the center coolant nipple but wrapped it in vulcanizing tape and bent it to fit. I'll be checking on it periodically. But I'm interested in capping it off as seen above.

So what did you use to cap it off? They sell those at the auto part store or the hardware store?

[bmwpower]

I would not use a cap unless is was reinforced.

[txleadfoot]

I second that. I've pulled two and both have been cracked.

replace that plastic coolant junction piece now while you can! they are really chea from the dealer.....and dont forget the o-ring that goes with it.;)

[batsbats]

OK, so I decided to go this route instead of just changing all the cracked lines like I was originally planning. Looks sooo much cleaner with just the plastic tube and the one coolant line from the block to the the plastic tube.

Man, so much gunk in the ports and lower manifold! What's good to clean them out? Brake cleaner + brush?

Also I live in NJ, so I guess I'll guinea and let you guys know if I run into problems down the line in the winter. I'll be keeping the heater stuff in case one bitter morning the throttle ices up.

[nomad]

I suppose instead of a rubber cap you could put a nice big stainless steel bolt in the hose and hoseclamp them on there... I checked my wrapped hose and it looks fine still.

[batsbats]

OK, so I decided to go this route instead of just changing all the cracked lines like I was originally planning. Looks sooo much cleaner with just the plastic tube and the one coolant line from the block to the the plastic tube.

Man, so much gunk in the ports and lower manifold! What's good to clean them out? Brake cleaner + brush?

Also I live in NJ, so I guess I'll guinea and let you guys know if I run into problems down the line in the winter. I'll be keeping the heater stuff in case one bitter morning the throttle ices up.

Also did you guys just use a lot of rubber fuel lines? I went to pep boys and the guy said there were ok for running coolant. Can they withstand the vacuum? I estimate about 4' for the vacuum lines and 1' for the coolant bypass. The 4' would be for the

1) Crankcase to bottom of TB ~2'
2) TB Boot to ICV & ICV to Upper Intake Manifold ~2'

[Wise Old Dog]

3 foot left me with about 4" extra. Fuel line should work just fine.

[nomad]

they will collapse a bit when hot and under vacuum. Use the plastic connectors from the stock mess and insert them in the lines so that no one hose is longer than say 8". The longer the hose the more it collapses in the middle.

[tjts1]

Its very important to use vacuum hose when dealing with vacuum, and fuel line when dealing with fuel. Fuel line will collapse under vacuum and vac hose will expand when under positive pressure. The crankcase hose coming from the valve cover is not exposed to vacuum so you can use generic hose. The hose between the ICV and manifold is under deep vacuum so you have to use reinforced vac hose. Same for the charcoal canister to TB and FPR to TB hose
cheers
Justin

[batsbats]

Its very important to use vacuum hose when dealing with vacuum, and fuel line when dealing with fuel. Fuel line will collapse under vacuum and vac hose will expand when under positive pressure. The crankcase hose coming from the valve cover is not exposed to vacuum so you can use generic hose. The hose between the ICV and manifold is under deep vacuum so you have to use reinforced vac hose. Same for the charcoal canister to TB and FPR to TB hose
cheers
Justin

I managed to use the heater hose left over to connect the ICV. Very hard to manipulate/squeeze, duno if that's a good or bad thing. Just need to make a catch can and I should be good to go :)

[adam12hicks]

Hey guys, quick question. I have my intake torn down and have removed the throttle body heaters. Right now I've just built a 'u turn' out of two brass air compressor fittings and red loc-tite. Hard to explain, but each piece has a graduated nozzle on one end and one has a male threaded and the other a female threaded section at 90 degrees. Put them both together and I ended up with a loc-tite fit 180 degree turn to plug into the two coolant lines beneath the throttle body.

Anyways, I digress... HERE'S my question. I'd rather pull the whole mess and run the new vacuum lines, but I'm not experienced at pulling the fuel injectors and fuel rail, and don't have the fuel injector o-rings, so I've chosen not to remove the lower intake manifold section. Can the two coolant ports be accessed without removing the lower manifold? If I could loop them as shown by the OP then I could go ahead and just pull all that vacuum crap from under the manifold without removing it.

Anyone tried this? If not I'm just going to cut back the vacuum lines until they're mostly out of the way and keep the coolant line as is.

Thanks guys,
Adam

[vonkamp]

Yes, I did mine without removing the lower intake manifold. It's a tight squeeze but it can be done.

[adam12hicks]

Ok thanks... and then one more and I think I'm SET. I noticed that the vacuum connection on the ICV and the connection on the intake are two different sizes. Also, the connection on the Throttle Body and the Valve Cover are also two different sizes. What did you guys do? Did you use two different sized hoses and connect them in the middle with a coupler or did you use the larger diameter hose and hope the clamp would get it tight on the smaller connection?

Thanks in advance!

[batsbats]

Ok thanks... and then one more and I think I'm SET. I noticed that the vacuum connection on the ICV and the connection on the intake are two different sizes. Also, the connection on the Throttle Body and the Valve Cover are also two different sizes. What did you guys do? Did you use two different sized hoses and connect them in the middle with a coupler or did you use the larger diameter hose and hope the clamp would get it tight on the smaller connection?

Thanks in advance!

I squeezed with a lot of force and liquid detergent to get 5/8" heater hose for the ICV connections. Also used 5/8" heater hose for the valve cover to the tb, more plug and play here.

[batsbats]

Oh and, where did you guys mount your catch cans? It's freaking 100F outside, and couldn't really think of somewhere to neatly mount it.

I pulled my intake manifolds to see how the reroute was doing, and replace the plastic junction. I cleaned them well last time, but now the lower intake is dirty again :(.

I'm thinking about using an air compressor filter.

[tjts1]

I installed the catch can in line between the valve cover and intake tube, just sort of hanging mid air. I also used a compressor filter but it got clogged up pretty quick and caused the valve cover to leak from high pressure. I gave up on the catch can and simply use synthetic oil all the time. The intake manifold still gets oily but it the oil doesn't leave thick crusty deposits like dino juice does.

[batsbats]

I installed the catch can in line between the valve cover and intake tube, just sort of hanging mid air. I also used a compressor filter but it got clogged up pretty quick and caused the valve cover to leak from high pressure. I gave up on the catch can and simply use synthetic oil all the time. The intake manifold still gets oily but it the oil doesn't leave thick crusty deposits like dino juice does.

oic, yeah I run m1 15-50. the upper intake seemed fine, but the lower where it meets the head was lightly covered. I think running it 10 laps @ new road course did not help either.

[adam12hicks]

10 laps? What happened? Did you break or chicken out ;)

[AcSchnitzer318is]

Excellent thread. Performed this mod today in about 6 hours. A long time I know, but I was also cleaning, stripping, and painting my upper manifold and TB so there was a lot of wait time. Came out great and am much happier without the rat's nest of vacuum/coolant lines under the intake.:cool:

Thanks a bunch.

[adam12hicks]

AC Can you take a picture of what you ended up with? What size hose did you use to connect the ICV to the intake boot and manifold?

Thanks!

[batsbats]

10 laps? What happened? Did you break or chicken out ;)

New road course opened up, and they allowed session of five laps each. I made in time for the last two sessions and drove home. :) FREE lap time btw.

[AcSchnitzer318is]

AC Can you take a picture of what you ended up with? What size hose did you use to connect the ICV to the intake boot and manifold?

Thanks!

Sure, pics below. I used 1/2" heater hose for the ICV to boot run. Did it in 3 sections. First section is like 3" long with a 90 degree elbow. Second section is about 8" with a splicing insert in it which connects the third section to it. Third section of hose is about 8" long. I didn't want any chance of the hose collapsing. I mostly reused stock hoses (because of the bends) for the VC to TB run. I wanted to run it under the manifold like stock does. Looks damn near stock.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4539/img1092rb0.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/858/img1093js8.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9287/img1094tj9.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4308/img1095jt9.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8146/img1096ej0.jpg

[adam12hicks]

Looks great! Nice work! Where did you buy the elbows? Or did you just use ones you had? I've not found a lot of hose parts at AutoZone, Pep Boys or O'Reilly yet. They have hose, but not a lot of fittings. I'd love to just find some 1/2" to 1/2" connectors (for the same reason as you - to prevent collapsing) and a few elbows like that. Did the 1/2" fit snuggly? I know some of the other members have used 3/8" but it's apparently a very, very tight fit.

[AcSchnitzer318is]

I reused most of the stock stuff... but did find 90's at pep boys.

[colin86325]

A decent plumbing supply shop will have all manner of plastic hose barbs and 90 degree elbows.

[aceofsnett]

Alright, so let me see if I have this straight. The basic ideas are to connect the ICV directly to the throttle body, and connect the crankcase vent directly to the intake elbow, eliminating everything else, including the throttle body heater plate? My intake is apart right now to replace a heater hose, and I would love to do this. What do I need in terms of non standard supplies? Just 1/2" and 5/8" heater hose?

[AcSchnitzer318is]

Flip that around... ICV to intake elbow, and valve cover to the bottom of the TB.

[tjts1]

Flip that around... ICV to intake elbow, and valve cover to the bottom of the TB.

+1
This thread will live in infamy!

[aceofsnett]

Looks great! Nice work! Where did you buy the elbows? Or did you just use ones you had? I've not found a lot of hose parts at AutoZone, Pep Boys or O'Reilly yet. They have hose, but not a lot of fittings. I'd love to just find some 1/2" to 1/2" connectors (for the same reason as you - to prevent collapsing) and a few elbows like that. Did the 1/2" fit snuggly? I know some of the other members have used 3/8" but it's apparently a very, very tight fit.

I found awesome solid brass 1/2" to 1/2" connectors at home depot. The brass will last forever and look a hell of a lot better than plastic. I'm doing this mod this week, hopefully it will go smoothly.

[HMS_Tim]

HAHA! This is the first I saw of this thread. It's funny cause I just did it to my motor last week! I didn't know it was here.

[dbgrubbs]

Just removed all the mess last night. I used some of the original hoses and only had to buy some 5/8" hose and 1 reducing fitting.