Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine

[epabillo]

Mustang Injectors in an M42 engine

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I remember seeing a post regarding replacing the stock M42 e30 from 1991 318i injectors with bigger ones from a Mustang.... Has any one done it here? Please let me know...and if you have the part number as well.... How easy is the install?

[dino245]

The stock injectors and the mustang injectors are physicly identicle. They both flow the same amount of fuel at 20.5lbs/hr although the mustange injectors are rated at 19lbs but this is at 33psi and not the 43psi of stock bmw, but the mustang injectors have 4 pintles or holes so the fuel is better atomized which produces a better burn and more power which is what we all want.

you can find the mustang injectors all day long on ebay just becareful of which one you buy the early mustang injectors are single pintle ask the seller to make sure that they are the right ones.

[bmwman91]

So was it confirmed that the M42 injectors are 20.5#/hr? The PN is still the same as the M30 injectors, and I am really sure those are 17#/hr. I put in the S50 ones at 17.5#/hr, and it is running just fine, even a little smoother than before. It would be running really lean if I went from 20.5 to 17.5.

[dino245]

I have used this site to determine the correct flow for the folowing injectors.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

The ford injector is part number 0280150556 210.0 cc/min at 43.7psi (3 bar)
M42 injector is 0280150714 213.9 cc/min at 43.7psi (3 bar)
M50 injector is 0280150415 190.2 cc/min at 50.75psi

so the Mustang injector is just a little small but not enough to worry about.
The M50 injectors are rated at around 180 cc/min at 3 bar.

[kowalski]

finaly this issue has been cleared up!

[bmwman91]

Yikes! I better put some higher flow ones in, STAT! I cannot be running around with the MAF conversion & these things!

[bmwman91]

Oh, and what yeat Mustang can I find these injectors on? There is a Pick-N-Pull nearby with lots of them. I know only some have the 4-pintle injectors...was that year-specific?

[tim_s]

finaly this issue has been cleared up!
lol, why did no one listen to me?! I've said the m42 714s are 20.35lbs/hr for ages, even verified the part number with you mike to make sure the US part was the same! ;)

[kowalski]

lol, why did no one listen to me?! I've said the m42 714s are 20.35lbs/hr for ages, even verified the part number with you mike to make sure the US part was the same! ;)

haha i know, but yours is a crazy european car:) and i didn't have my Pn's to verify the same injectors. i was always told they were 17.5lb/hr. but thats ok cause i have the 4 pintle stang injectors.

[dino245]

Tim s some times we need to learn the hard way. I tied the M50 injectors because of false info on another bmw forum. After I installed them and recalibrated the SMT6 I am using on the MAF conversion I did notice a positive change so I though nothing of it and then I did some research on them and was shocked to find they were smaller. I then settled on finding injectors with the same flow rate as stock with 4 pintle since I did not think I needed extra fuel since the M42 runs rich any way. I installed the ford injectors recalibrated the injectors and was plesently surprised at the results. There was a significant increase in the torque curve and the car pulled much better at the top end.

I dont know what year mustang these came out of but there are plently of them on ebay as 19lbs injectors since the ford fuel pressure is less than 3 bar.

[kowalski]

the m42 doesn't run rich...

[dino245]

I have to disagree with you Kowalski, I use an A/F guage and it runs rich at WOT not by much but it is definatly not lean

[tim_s]

sorry, no offence meant chaps! as for the running rich at WOT - barely any cars run stoich at WOT, most run 12s/13s AFRs, the m42 is pretty lean for performance really

[kowalski]

I have to disagree with you Kowalski, I use an A/F guage and it runs rich at WOT not by much but it is definatly not lean

do you have a wide band 02 sensor? or is it just the stock on?

[asubimmer]

well guys I have some ford 24#ers I bought for my turbo setup. Would it be a bad idea to go ahead and put them on now? Would I be WAY to rich?

[bmwman91]

When I dyno'ed my car a while back the numbers were REALLY lean down low, and barely rich at higher RPM's. Here is a plot of the AFR. This was with stock injectors as well.

http://www.e30tuner.com/other/afr.gif

[2002maniac]

When I dyno'd my car stock the A/F was in the low 13's across the board. The dyno operator said that is about what they aim for when tuning for power.

[bmwman91]

When you say stock, you talking M10 or swapped M42?

[tim_s]

bmwman, i'm not sure yours was running right on that dyno run, that at WOT? that seems way too lean at 3k and too lean throughout, even for a standard m42. all your motronic sensors etc on form, o2 ok and fault codes clear etc?

[bmwman91]

That was on the previous car. I am pretty sure everything was running A-OK. I heard somewhere that the Conforti chip is tuned a little lean, but I could be wrong. Anyone else have a plot to compare it to? Stu McHenery, YEARS ago, said that the M42's problem is its injectors not flowing enough, and it does lean out a little up top...it was something BMW did for emissions.

[tim_s]

That was on the previous car. I am pretty sure everything was running A-OK. I heard somewhere that the Conforti chip is tuned a little lean, but I could be wrong. Anyone else have a plot to compare it to? Stu McHenery, YEARS ago, said that the M42's problem is its injectors not flowing enough, and it does lean out a little up top...it was something BMW did for emissions.

i'm not sure if it leans out at high rpms, but 20lbs injectors sound ok to me for a car with 140bhp. i know the standard chip is configured towards stoich for economy, but still imo that AFR graph you've got really seems way too lean at 3k, a bit up and down and generally a bit lean really. 16.5 at WOT at 3k is nasty. 15 or so would be ok, but 16.5 is surprising. you'd expect it to at or below stoich all the way on WOT, mb a bit higher at low rpms. even if on the graph yours wasnt at WOT until about 3.5k, 16.5 is lean anyway.
what power did it put down like that?

[tim_s]

i wonder if all m42s are like that, would be good to have a comparison...

[jfdublyu]

hey guys, what type of injector would yield best performance on a stock m42 w/ a Jim Conforti Chip?

[kowalski]

just go to the 19lb ford 4 pintle ones, since they're the same flow, but better atomization.

[shellback]

Maybe I missed it but did we ever get a recommended year Mustang to pull these injectors from?
Thanks,
Chris

[jfdublyu]

so i bought some of the mustang injectors, but i have never pulled injectors from an M42. does anyone have a DIY or pics? how long does it take? do you have to remove the valve cover gasket or anything else?

[2002maniac]

When you say stock, you talking M10 or swapped M42?
huh? My car is a '91 318is. This is m42club right? :p

[bmwman91]

Lol, for some reason I thought you were driving an M10 318 with the M42 swapped in. Silly me.

[shellback]

"The ford injector is part number 0280150556 210.0 cc/min at 43.7psi (3 bar)"

"just go to the 19lb ford 4 pintle ones, since they're the same flow, but better atomization"

Folks, please, what year Mustang?

[asubimmer]

I have some 0 280 155 715 Fords.

[M42boy]

I don't know about all this Ford injector stuff. If you guys want to get real technical you can get the RC custom or software programable ones, but they are real pricey.

Only Ford part going on my car is the Ox sensor. I think I used a Mustang or a Probe one on my last car as it was the cheapest Bosch on I could find. I think it was exactly $21. It's exactly the same one as the one for the BMW, minus the harness plug. Splice three wires and you're back in business.

[2002maniac]

Cheap bosch>expensive bosch

[jfdublyu]

so... anyone want to tell me how to get good access to the fuel rail so i can install these bad boys?

[M42boy]

so... anyone want to tell me how to get good access to the fuel rail so i can install these bad boys?

I believe it's under the intake manifold. How long does it take to remove the IM for those that have done it? It looks pretty straightforward though.

[kowalski]

its easy, all you gotta do is take off the throttle boddie, disconect the thottle cable and the vacume hoses and the FPR hose, then pull off the heated spacer, and then take the manifold off and your there. the only part thats a pain in the ass is putting the FPR hose back on... while your doing this i recomend replacing most if not all the rubber hoses.

[jfdublyu]

i bought all the vaccuum hoses from bavauto a while ago but haven't got around to replacing them yet. this will give me the motivation. The throttle body looks like a pain to get off though, is it not? it looks like 4 bolts (maybe 11mm or so), 1 on each corner, and it looks impossible to reach the bottom two w/ a wrench or socket. any tips?

[bmwman91]

It is a bit of a pain reconnecting the coolant lines below the TB, actually it is a real PITA. Other than that it is not too bad. Just be careful yanking the injectors out. They can be a real pain to remove.

[M42boy]

It is a bit of a pain reconnecting the coolant lines below the TB, actually it is a real PITA. Other than that it is not too bad. Just be careful yanking the injectors out. They can be a real pain to remove.
Why do you have to remove any coolant lines? I mean, might be a good time to replace these, but I don't see why you have to remove coolant lines to get at the intake manifold.

The part that makes me nervous is that my throttle cable is all taped up with electrical tape up by the pivot point. I'm nervous to see what's broken up there. :eek:

[bmwman91]

I am referring to the little coolant feed hoses that feed the TB's de-icer. They are really short, and connect to the TB underneath it, but it has to already be in place for them to reach their fittings.

The easiest way I found to het this done was to unbolt the TB, unclamp the hoses, and remove the TB first. The manifold is cake after that. Installation is the reverse.

Check the FPR vacuum line for cracks. I got a new hose (rubber, braided on the outside with a nylon sheath) for like $.68/foot at Kragen. It is not a good thing to have a leaky one.

Also, check to see if the lower manifold is all gunked up with clack goop inside. If it is bad enough that you can see the goop in the injector bungs, consider removing the manifold & cleaning it. All you have to do is loosen some more bolts (MAYBE replace the gasket, if it rips, or you do not have any high temp silicone RTV), pull the vacuum line out of the brake booster, and disconnect the 2 little segments of fuel line going to the rail. Just be careful doing this as gas will likely come draining out. You may as well replace these fuel lines too, a 1' segment will more than cover the job for these 2 little bits.

[Eurospec]

Removed the upper manifold on my car yesterday to access a water line that was leaking. I thought it was straightforward, mind you this was the first time I've ever taken it apart.

In reference to the FPR vacuum lines that have been discussed, what do those look like and where are they located as I've removed a few hoses and want to ensure these get replaced.

[kowalski]

the FPR line is located on the throttle body, it attatches to the small valve on the side of it.

how come you removed the coolant lines on the by the TB, you can just shimmy that thing off without removing the lines if you want... thats what i do.

[shellback]

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63406&page=2

Thoughts?

[e9nine]

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63406&page=2

Thoughts?
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=538&page=4&highlight=pintle

Post # 86. I'd not rush to upgrade fuel on your car just yet. What mods have you done?

[shellback]

Señor,
I guess I'm stocking up on parts first :D

Not sure what I'll be doing in the near future:
2.1
turbo
DASC

If I choose one of the above, will I still need the injectors?

Mahalo,
Chris

[asubimmer]

^^yep you will need larger injectors for the that stuff. Stock m20ers even use bigger ones w/ the m30 AFM

[Awgy]

I would like to upgrade my injectors as well and ran across 19# injectors on ebay.

The info below is copied from the ebay page I found.

Ford Bosch Design III 19 lb 19lb/hr MPI (multi-port injectors) injectors, p/n's F4SE-A1B, 0280155700. 204cc @ 3 bar. Quantity 8. These injectors have a disc-type four-hole fuel delivery system in comparison to the single pintle of the Design II's for a more efficient fuel-atomization. This results in a more efficient power delivery and better mileage.
Also a great upgrade for BMW's; fits the BMW M20 fuel rail. These were pulled from a running engine and have been electrically tested. You get the exact ones in the picture.
MODIFICATION APPLICATIONS ARE :

FORD /LINCOLN/MAZDA
* 1986 -1995 5.0 V8 MUSTANGS
* 1996 -2001 4.6 MUSTANGS
* F-Series 5.0/5.8L EFI-MPI
* Lightning Truck 5.8
* 1993-96 4.0 Explorer
* 1990-95 4.0 Aerostar
* 1990-92 4.0 Expl/Ranger
* 1993-94 4.0 Ranger
* 1996 4.0 Aero/Ranger
* Mazda Navajo 4.0
* 1997-98 3.8 Mustang
* 1990-1992 5.8 E/F SERIES P/U BRONCO
* 1997-2000 5.4 EXPEDITION
* 1992-1998 4.6 CROWN VICTORIA
* 1986-1990 5.0 LINCOLN TOWNCAR
* 1991-1996 4.6 LINCOLN TOWNCAR


GM:
* 1990 deville 4.5 V-8
* 1991-95 deVille 4.9 V-8
* 1985-88 Firebird TPI 305
* 1985-88 Camaro TPI 305
* 1994-96 Caprice 4.3 V-8


DODGE:
* 90-93 Trk/Van 5.2 5.9 V8
* 87-95 Dakota 3.9 V-6


BMW Applications: 4.0, 4.4 V-8:
* 1996-98 840ci
* 1994-95 530i-3.0 V-8
* 1991-94 318i, 318is
* 1985 318i 1766cc L-Jet
* 1988 325e
* 1988 528e
* 1985-87 635CSi
* 1985-93 535i
* 1985-92 735i
* 1988-92 735iL
* 1987 L6, L7
* 1992-98 740i, 740iL
* 1992-98 540i


Hope this info is correct and helps those wanting years to look for.

[gearheadE30]

I don't know if these are easier to come by or if its even true, but I read somewhere on bf.c that S50 injectors fit the M42...

Found this (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsBMW.asp) site though, and says they don't.

Any thoughts?

[RED IS 91]

I would like to upgrade my injectors as well and ran across 19# injectors on ebay.

The info below is copied from the ebay page I found.

Ford Bosch Design III 19 lb 19lb/hr MPI (multi-port injectors) injectors, p/n's F4SE-A1B, 0280155700. 204cc @ 3 bar. Quantity 8. These injectors have a disc-type four-hole fuel delivery system in comparison to the single pintle of the Design II's for a more efficient fuel-atomization. This results in a more efficient power delivery and better mileage.
Also a great upgrade for BMW's; fits the BMW M20 fuel rail. These were pulled from a running engine and have been electrically tested. You get the exact ones in the picture.
MODIFICATION APPLICATIONS ARE :

FORD /LINCOLN/MAZDA
* 1986 -1995 5.0 V8 MUSTANGS
* 1996 -2001 4.6 MUSTANGS
* F-Series 5.0/5.8L EFI-MPI
* Lightning Truck 5.8
* 1993-96 4.0 Explorer
* 1990-95 4.0 Aerostar
* 1990-92 4.0 Expl/Ranger
* 1993-94 4.0 Ranger
* 1996 4.0 Aero/Ranger
* Mazda Navajo 4.0
* 1997-98 3.8 Mustang
* 1990-1992 5.8 E/F SERIES P/U BRONCO
* 1997-2000 5.4 EXPEDITION
* 1992-1998 4.6 CROWN VICTORIA
* 1986-1990 5.0 LINCOLN TOWNCAR
* 1991-1996 4.6 LINCOLN TOWNCAR


GM:
* 1990 deville 4.5 V-8
* 1991-95 deVille 4.9 V-8
* 1985-88 Firebird TPI 305
* 1985-88 Camaro TPI 305
* 1994-96 Caprice 4.3 V-8


DODGE:
* 90-93 Trk/Van 5.2 5.9 V8
* 87-95 Dakota 3.9 V-6


BMW Applications: 4.0, 4.4 V-8:
* 1996-98 840ci
* 1994-95 530i-3.0 V-8
* 1991-94 318i, 318is
* 1985 318i 1766cc L-Jet
* 1988 325e
* 1988 528e
* 1985-87 635CSi
* 1985-93 535i
* 1985-92 735i
* 1988-92 735iL
* 1987 L6, L7
* 1992-98 740i, 740iL
* 1992-98 540i


Hope this info is correct and helps those wanting years to look for.

Are you bidding on these???? Is anyone ????
I will bid on them if no one here is .

[tjts1]

I just converted my volvo 960 from the original pintle injectors(0-280-150-762) to a set of 4 hole injectors from a 96 Saab 900 V6 (0-280-155-712). Both the old and new injectors are around 20# so I didn't go up or down in size but the difference from behind the wheel was very noticeable. More torque at every rpm, smoother idle and easier to start.
Now I've turned my attention to the bmw. Searching through yards this weekend I found 2 sets of Ford injectors for cheap ;)
0-280-155-700 (F4SE-A1B) from a 96 V8 Thunderbird.
0-280-155-715 (F5DE-B5A) from a 97 V6 Taurus.
Which ones should I install?. I'm leaning toward the Thunderbird injectors. Different sources quote different specs for these injectors. A couple of people responding to this thread last year said they were using both of these types. How is it working out? Any feedback?
For anyone that hasn't seen the difference between single pintle vs 4 hole injectors:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2194/2063195153_8e465e4bd9_o.jpg

The old 150-762 EV1 pintle injector on the left vs EV6 injector on the right.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2319/2063987628_3b79b3f801_o.jpg

Bosch old style EV1 injectors have 150 in the PN. EV6 injectors have 155 in the PN.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2055128589_31ab4630d6_o.jpg

Bosch first introduced these injectors to the market in 1996 and then slowly phased out the pintle injector over the next 5 years.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2230/2063400461_4e368ebab0_o.jpg

Injector flow lists.
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php4
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

[kowalski]

working great, 3 years going strong.

[tjts1]

working great, 3 years going strong.

Sweet! Do you remember the part number of the injectors you are using? Did fuel economy or power change?

[tjts1]

I swapped in the the ford injectors (0280155700) on Monday. My god this fuel rail is such a pain in the ass. Anyway, the EV6 injectors are not a direct swap into our cars. Funny how everyone failed to mention this. I needed to put a 1/2" washer around the bottom of the injector to keep it in contact with the fuel rail. The little clips are not strong enough to keep the injector planted in the fuel rail when the system is under pressure. The injectors need to be squeezed between the intake and the fuel rail. I reinstalled the upper intake without a gasket because I didn't have one on hand. instead i used a some RTV to get a good seal between the two intakes.
As soon as I started up the engine, the first thing I noticed is damn smooth idle. This swap is worthwhile just for that. These injectors seem to react much more quickly compared to the factory EV1 injectors. I thought I had a worn out ICV because every time I turned on the headlights or switch on the AC, idle would almost die, and come back. Sometimes I would get some idle oscillations too. Now its perfectly even during load changes. Throttle response has improved noticeably and the engine is smoother as you go up through the revs. So far I put about 160 miles on these injectors, mostly short trips. The fuel gauge is about half way between 1/2 and 3/4 marks. We'll see how fuel economy does in the long term.
After more research I realize that in the saab injectors I put in the volvo were 21# vs the original 19# injectors. The 6cyl volvo engine has an AMM and knock sensor (Motronic 1.8) so it can adapt to the larger injectors. I'm not sure if the M42 has the same ability, but if I find another set of 21# saab injectors, I'll try those out on the M42 along with some intake work. When I find my camera I'll take some pics.

[tjts1]

The picture is a bit blurry but you can see the 1/2" washer at the bottom of the injector. Oh and 190 miles at 1/2 tank so far.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/tjts3/pics194.jpg

[kowalski]

hmm, those are the injectors i used. I used some out of an e36 2.5 liter, which are supposed to be the same injector and part number.

[tjts1]

The stock M42 injector flows 18.28#
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150714.jpg

92-95 E36 325i uses EV1 pintle type injectors which looks externally identical to the M42 injector except for color. It flows 15.8#, smaller than even the stock M42 injector.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=1580+9713+4294967010+9294
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150415.jpg

The ford Injector I installed flows 19.4#
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg
After a little intake work I will switch to some 21 or 22# injectors.

[kowalski]

The one i used was 4 pintles not 1. and it flows at about 19.4lb/hr.

[tjts1]

The one i used was 4 pintles not 1. and it flows at about 19.4lb/hr.

Excellent! Its definitely not the E36 325i injector but it seems like the perfect size for this car. Did you run into the same problem with mounting the injector? If you get a chance to read the part number off of it would be helpful. I'm compiling a list of compatible injectors for a future write up. If its a bosch injector, I'm interested in the last 3 digits. 0280 155 XXX
thanks

[tjts1]

A nice comparison of different injectors and the spray pattern they produce.
http://z-r-c.com/images/topics/injectors/SprayPatterns.jpg
http://z-r-c.com/News/article/sid=32.html

[kowalski]

280150909

oh, and no i didn't have the washer problem that you did.

[Wise Old Dog]

0280155710

[tjts1]

Thanks for posting the Bosch part numbers. After 2 weeks of driving, I filled up this morning. 385 miles on 12.4 gallons. You do the math. This included about 20 cold starts, some highway, some city, a little stop and go traffic and a couple of canyon romps. The car also manual steering, electric fan and 3.64 gears. Its a hell of a lot more fun to drive than when I got my hands on it 8 months ago.

[mkodama]

A nice comparison of different injectors and the spray pattern they produce.
http://z-r-c.com/images/topics/injectors/SprayPatterns.jpg
http://z-r-c.com/News/article/sid=32.html

Makes me want to know what the two on the far right are...

[izzzo]

what about the late M42 on E36- from 95, do they still use one hole injectors( will this Mustang-mod work for me?)

[Cobra Jet]

The picture is a bit blurry but you can see the 1/2" washer at the bottom of the injector. Oh and 190 miles at 1/2 tank so far.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/tjts3/pics194.jpg

Justin,

Just curious... is it really "safe" to run the vehicle w/ your "washer mod" on the injectors? I would be concerned about a fuel leak if the injector were to shift or not be 100% sealed properly due to having to use a metal washer.

That solid orange, skinny Mustang injector is the newer style "mod-motor" injector as used on the 96+ SOHC & DOHC Mustangs (and other Fords).
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280155700.jpg


The other Mustang injector, which has the silver body & yellow top is the 5.0 19lb injector that was used on nearly all 1986-1995 Mustang 5.0's (and other 5.0 Ford products, including the Crown Vics, Lincolns, Broncos, F-Series trucks, etc).



You cannot safely use the newer style solid yellow injector in place of the older style injector due to the differences in height and sealing characteristics of the O-rings & fuel rail assemblies - mainly because of possible fuel leaks. Granted we are talking using these parts in BMW's so some of the above is null & void as it applies to Fords, but if it were me, I would surely use the same type of injector as a replacement (exterior characteristics/dimensions - height/o-rings, etc) rather than trying to make a different type "fit". Again, I'm not saying what you did is 100% incorrect, as it does seem to work, however, IMO it's not the best solution and just does not seem as safe w/ using a washer to hold the injector into the fuel rail & intake.

[tjts1]

You cannot safely use the newer style solid yellow injector in place of the older style injector due to the differences in height and sealing characteristics of the O-rings & fuel rail assemblies - mainly because of possible fuel leaks. Granted we are talking using these parts in BMW's so some of the above is null & void as it applies to Fords, but if it were me, I would surely use the same type of injector as a replacement (exterior characteristics/dimensions - height/o-rings, etc) rather than trying to make a different type "fit". Again, I'm not saying what you did is 100% incorrect, as it does seem to work, however, IMO it's not the best solution and just does not seem as safe w/ using a washer to hold the injector into the fuel rail & intake.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and im certainly not trying to push this modification as the end all be all in fuel injectors. I disagree on a couple of points. The ford injector is exactly the same height as the bmw injector, using the same size injector seals and the same electric connector at the same height. The only critical differrence is the shape of the body. Most manufacturers use the pintle cap as a mouting point of the bottom of the injector. BMW used the metal body, hence the need for a 1/2" washers. Both injectors were manufactured by Bosch. Yes, the washer is my own bodged invention in place of the weird bmw pintle cap but in 6 months and 6k miles it has never leaked. I've checked them frequently under pressure with the engine both hot and cold.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2088/2450385979_11527abe28_o.jpg

[ShinnickSP]

The FIVEOMOTORSPOR.COM site shows the 19# mustang injectors as Bosch #0-280-155-710 and #0-280-155-700. The picture for the #700 injector does not look like the stock injector (0-280-150-714 for the M42/M30) though. While i haven't found a definitive picture of the #710 Mustang injector, from the bellow link it looks closer to stock than the #700. It is also not clear from the below link if the #710 is four hole or one hole? I say closer to stock because of the clip that slides into the groove of the injector and around the fuel rail port to assist with holding it in place.

It appears the benefit of the #700 injector may be that is has four holes (vice a one-hole pintle for stock or a one-hole disc-type for the #710) but you may need a washer at the manifold end in order to help hold the injector in place because the clip can't be used?

(http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsBMW.asp

[Wise Old Dog]

I have the 710's. They are the 4 hole type.

[colin86325]

I have the 710's. They are the 4 hole type.

You didn't have any mounting problems, did you? I mean, did you have to use metal washers?
What type of mileage are you getting?

[Wise Old Dog]

No mounting issues. 25-27 around town.

[futron.sim]

Any type of injectors you could use is the M3 pink top injectors. They are rated at 210CC which isn't far from the stock ones. The M3 injectors has 4 holes as well.

[tjts1]

Last night I replaced the 19# yellow ford bosch injectors (0280155700) with 21.9# dark blue volvo bosch 960 injectors (0280155702). This swap goes hand in hand with my TB fix and CAI.

I took a few pics so people have a better idea of how the 1/2" washer works.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2508535993_210af551d8_o.jpg

Before installation I cleaned and back flushed the injectors myself, hence the missing filters. I hope the fuel line filter does its job... LOL
http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=82
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2509364486_5981738f08_o.jpg

[nomad]

Your car is becoming a 318is Volvo!

So why the switch? How is 22# going to help at the same fuel pressure and fuel delivery time? Were they cheaper? Did you buy new or junkyard?

[tjts1]

Your car is becoming a 318is Volvo!

So why the switch? How is 22# going to help at the same fuel pressure and fuel delivery time? Were they cheaper? Did you buy new or junkyard?
Sad, but true. Volvo fan, plug wires, now injectors. Pretty soon I'll have to swap badges.

The stock injectors (0280150714) are 20#. I initially replaced them with 19# ford injectors and life was good. Then I fixed the hot air intake, picked up a bunch of throttle response and acceleration in the mid range but nothing at the top end. Its obviously getting enough air now so, maybe the solution is more fuel. So goes the theory anyway. The dyno will tell all.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2505220617_e08bb12e31_o.jpg

[nomad]

So the knife edging will help huh?
Seems like an easy little project to pass some time.

I like the way the high beam intake looks. It does blend in better with both sides.

I'm considering eliminating the high beams and getting some dual filament H4 if I can find good rewire info. I think two black intake areas would look nice and I could pipe some outside air into the intake and down the header side to help scavenge hot air from the engine bay.

I'll be hitting up the junkyard soon and looking for volvos to get wires, fan and now injectors too.

[tjts1]

So the knife edging will help huh?
Seems like an easy little project to pass some time.

I like the way the high beam intake looks. It does blend in better with both sides.

I'm considering eliminating the high beams and getting some dual filament H4 if I can find good rewire info. I think two black intake areas would look nice and I could pipe some outside air into the intake and down the header side to help scavenge hot air from the engine bay.

I'll be hitting up the junkyard soon and looking for volvos to get wires, fan and now injectors too.
I have no idea if knife edge helps but I feel better knowing its done. These are the H4 headlights I'm using.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-3-4-4000-H5006-H4-EURO-CONVERSION-HEADLIGHTS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q 2el1262QQcategoryZ33710QQihZ013QQitemZ230132376960 QQtcZphoto
Cheap made in india but the reflectors are just as good as my old hellas. Don't use/buy any of the Autopal bulbs though. Even the 100w version are total garbage and most have the base on crooked. Pick up H4/9003 bulbs at the store. Napa carries German made 80/100w bulbs.
If you have sealed beams the H4 headlight is a direct drop in. No rewiring required. Elipsoids are a different story.

The fan is volvo 940/960. 850 also works but the shroud is a harder to use.
Plug wires are volvo 850
Injectors are 95-98 volvo 960/S90/V90. In general yellow injectors are 18-20#, Dark blue is 20-22#.

Most yards are having a 1/2 off sale this weekend.
http://www.picknpull.com/events_and_specials.aspx?View=Detail&ID=475
http://www.pickapart.com/

cheers
Justin

[colin86325]

I had an extra set of injectors from a 1992 E36 318iS that were in good condition. It turns out that they are also 4-pintle injectors made by Lucas. They have the following Lucas number on them: D3761FA. The BMW part number is 136 4 1739 242

Anybody know how these compare to the Bosch 155-710 injectors as far as cc flow and atomization?

[AcSchnitzer318is]

I'm hoping one of you can help here... I can't find any of the bosch 710 injectors, but can find plenty of the 700's all over. Well, I want to get more fuel in than those provide... would like a 22.5 lb injector. My last dyno run showed I was lean throughout the run. I am running a set of Delta regrinds (shrick specs) that came with my new motor. Also might switch to a conical filter instead of the stock box.

Will either, or both, of these sets work? Thanks a bunch for your help guys...

Mustang 22.5lb Injectors (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170232923644&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007)

Volvo 22.5lb Injectors (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270248641777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017)

[tjts1]

Not sure about the injectors in the first link, but there is a person earlier in this thread using the injectors in the second link.

[mkodama]

I just felt like adding, it is best to use Bosch 150 style injectors if you want a direct fitment and no washers.

All Bosch injector part numbers start with a "0 280 XXX XXX". The first three X's are the injector style. Bosch has two commonly used styles, the 150 injector which is wider, and the slightly newer 155 style which is narrower. So a 150 style injector will have a part number like "0 280 150 947".

When it comes to the two injector styles, practically no dimensions are the same, other than the same O-rings. In some cars the 155 style don't work at all. I recently helped out with an efi conversion on a 1989 Mercedes 190E, and where the 150's were able be used, the 155's were a lot shorter and wouldn't have worked well.

As an additional note, most car manufacturers run slightly undersized injectors since smaller injectors provide more accurate fuel metering and better fuel economy. BUT in the case of the M42, these are perfectly sized(20.35lbs/hr) for the engine and should be able to support 138 hp with 43.5 psi/3 bar fuel pressure (BMW regulators run at 3 bar + or - 0.06). So if anyone is claiming their car is running either lean or rich, then likely they have a mechanical problem or less likely BMW didn't make a very good fuel table.

[tjts1]

When it comes to the two injector styles, practically no dimensions are the same, other than the same O-rings. In some cars the 155 style don't work at all. I recently helped out with an efi conversion on a 1989 Mercedes 190E, and where the 150's were able be used, the 155's were a lot shorter and wouldn't have worked well.
There are 2 versions of the 155 injectors. Standard body and long body. The long body shares all exterior dimensions with the 150. There are a few versions of the 150 body injector with a 4 hole sprayer but mostly in the 17# range which is useless to us.

Short vs long version.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2615001538_2e0b6a54d6_o.jpg
Every part number we've discussed thus far in this thread has been the long version.

[mkodama]

There are 2 versions of the 155 injectors. Standard body and long body. The long body shares all exterior dimensions with the 150.

Short vs long version.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2615001538_2e0b6a54d6_o.jpg
Every part number we've discussed thus far in this thread has been the long version.

Ahh!!! well that would explain a lot. Didn't know there short and long 155 style injectors. Thanks!

Personally, I'm gonna experiment with the Bosch 0 280 150 947 injectors if I ever do my megasquirt install. 24.5 lbs/hr, 150 style so they fit without washers, pretty widely available, and with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator they can be used for a very wide range of power. Supposedly they use a disc instead of the normal pintle as well.

[tjts1]

Ahh!!! well that would explain a lot. Didn't know there short and long 155 style injectors. Thanks!

Personally, I'm gonna experiment with the Bosch 0 280 150 947 injectors if I ever do my megasquirt install. 24.5 lbs/hr, 150 style so they fit without washers, pretty widely available, and with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator they can be used for a very wide range of power. Supposedly they use a disc instead of the normal pintle as well.
Sounds like a solid plan. I know theres a bunch of 4 hole injectors out there with the 150 body style that I don't have the specific info on. Definitely add new info you find here. This thread will become a valuable resource.

So far I have about 500 miles on my 0280155702 22# Volvo injectors Fuel economy and power have been stellar. I averaged 31 mpg on my last tank over the span of 3 weeks doing short trips. With gas being where it is, I find myself riding my bike a lot more and driving a lot less.

[AcSchnitzer318is]

^Thank you both very much for those responses. That helps greatly. I will go for those mustang ones then. Hopefully switching to 22.5# is appropriate since I am running those cams. If not, I'll head to the local yard and pull some mustang 19#'ers.

[tjts1]

Those mustang injectors that always seem to come in batches of 6, are actually off a 96-98 Ford taurus 3.0 24 valve V6. Some sites quote them as 22.x# while others have them closer to 24#. The truth lies somewhere in between.
0280155715
;)

[mkodama]

Sounds like a solid plan. I know theres a bunch of 4 hole injectors out there with the 150 body style that I don't have the specific info on. Definitely add new info you find here. This thread will become a valuable resource.

So far I have about 500 miles on my 0280155702 22# Volvo injectors Fuel economy and power have been stellar. I averaged 31 mpg on my last tank over the span of 3 weeks doing short trips. With gas being where it is, I find myself riding my bike a lot more and driving a lot less.

:eek: Damn, are you serious? I guess I'm still used to my E46 330i, with a whopping 12mpg in the stop and go + hills traffic i do. I really can't wait to get delivery of my 318is, which has been at my neighbor's garage forever.

[tjts1]

I wasn't trying to say that bigger injectors improved fuel economy. My mileage didn't change at all when i switched from 20# 155 injectors to 22# 155 injectors. Keep in mind that I've done a lot of other things to make the car to make it more fuel efficient like manual steering, efan, 3.64 diff, ditch some weight etc. Most of my driving is around Marin on the 101 at non peak hours. It would be a lot worse in Berkeley traffic.

[AcSchnitzer318is]

Big thanks to the guys who contributed to this thread. I installed my 155 700 19# injectors from a mustang a couple of days ago... wow what a difference. Engine is smoother, and pulls harder. I got these for free and will work great for now, but I will switch to 22.5# 150's in the future. Not a fan of the washer, they aren't very tight on there, but there aren't any leaks either.:) Will update with mileage after I put a whole tank on these.

[tjts1]

Excellent! Keep an eye on it for leaks for the next few days.