ITB's info/projects

[asubimmer]

There seems to be a lot of talk on here about ITB's and what will work etc. If you have any info or plans share up.

[///Motorsport]

there's my ITBs, but they've been done to death on here really by now? Can post pics again if reqd?

maybe a pic to get 'em interested. This is somehting I would love to do very badly. Can i do it when I go turbo? I say that like I actually have plans to.... I need extra money!!!

[BrandC]

I want to hear about ITB projects, ESPECIALLY what engine management is being used and fuel/ignition maps to boot.

[Variance]

Links shoudl be sufficent, maybe a pic to get 'em ionterested. This is somehting I would love to do very badly. Can i do it when I go turbo? I say that like I actually have plans to.... I need extra money!!!
You can run ITB's with a turbo, but it's pretty much pointless. Once the intake tract is put under pressure, any gains from ITB's would be negated.

[2002maniac]

You can run ITB's with a turbo, but it's pretty much pointless. Once the intake tract is put under pressure, any gains from ITB's would be negated.

That's not entirely true. A motor that flows better will make more power period with the same amount of boost.

[Alpine003]

That's not entirely true. A motor that flows better will make more power period with the same amount of boost.

The reason why the Nissan Skylines uses ITB's stock on their turbo cars.;)

Obviously, the gains can be minimal or negligable depending on the design/specs of the entire system. It also adds additional cost and r&d so you don't see it on many cars.

[tim_s]

OK, my setup used modded 50mm bodies, new fuel rail and a custom vacuum rail, fibreglass plenum (this was the bulk of the work and a real pita), 3" MAF, 24lb injectors, M3 IAT sensor, 76mm K+N, S14 throttle clip, veedub aux air valve controlled by MS , and prob a load more stuff I've forgotten.
For management I used Msns-e with wasted spark on the factory coilpack, and MAF, not Alpha-N or MAP unlike most with MS. Many reasons for this, not worth getting into here. Mapping with a wideband took the best part of 6 months, and still in traffic (esp coming off throttle), warmup and idle my MS setup is not proving as good as the factory motronic; i do run a performance inlet cam which doesn't help I guess.
I used m44 timing map for reference and as the basemap for timing. Fuel economy on motorway runs and in traffic is about the same as with motronic/standard inlet, contrary to what some people will tell you regarding big throttle bodies and driving in traffic. I cruise at 17:1 and on WOT use 13:1, hasn't been optimised on the rollers yet. I'm actually back on the standard inlet and motronic (with budget mods to make it work with the 2.1!) for the moment, weighing up whether to keep the ITBs or not.
When I built them the car was mainly a toy and MS was great, whereas now i'm doing a lot of miles in traffic and on the motorway where the factory injection and throttle are actually better than the ITBs (quieter at 85mph+ and smoother in traffic/better idle). Most of my problems lie with me not being as happy with MS as with motronic for daily use, not with the ITBs themselves, which worked great. throttle pedal feel was a bit vague compared to the standard setup, but the throttle reponse, noise, and the power delivery esp at higher rpms was brilliant.
Will find some more recent pics when I get a moment, here are some old ones.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ts295/DSCN3009.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ts295/bmw/DSCN3000.jpg

[cecotto]

Tim.

Very nice looking setup, cant wait for the extra images.

Your setup looks cool with the airbox. I have been thinking about fabricating one for my setup... But i need to finish the engine before taking on any tasks...

Do you know how long your setup is from tract entrance to valveseat ? And how is your low end torque ?

My Dbilas setup is 27cm as i remember, measured crudely with a carpenters steel measuring band. I'm a bit concerned with the length so i might have tofigure something out about this..

[tim_s]

hi steffen,
I'm going to have to re-measure my inlet for you. I did know its length but I've forgotten. I just got a tape measure on the bodies and the trumpets the total length there is (very approximately) 25cm, so yes it's much longer than the dbilas setup. The trumpets are probably wider though, of course.
low end torque is very similar to factory, but it feels better because of the throttle response and the noise!

[dino245]

I am sure may people have heard of using the Hayabusa throttle bodies and wondered what they would look like spaced to the BMW bore centers of 91mm and not the Suzuki factory 80mm.

Well I have purchased a set that I will be using with my new engine and Haltech E8. Here are some picture of just the throttle bodies. I still a long road ahead and much to fab. I am using 26.85lb/hr @3bar injectors from a VW 1.8t At the 4 bar I will be using thay flow 31lb/hr enough for 200hp

[mike85-325e]

definetly a n00b question but what are the advantages for using ITB's?

[dino245]

More air capacity and better throttle responce.

[silverblades181]

definetly a n00b question but what are the advantages for using ITB's?

What Dino said. At higher rpms it permits more air to go into the engine and therefore fill the cylinders more efficiently.

[1991 E30 M42]

http://www.gttechnic.com/catalog.html
about 2/3 of the way down

[steve321]

well it all started about 18 months ago, when i brought a set of E36 M3 evo ITB's off ebay, but had a nightmare when it came to trying to fit them, what did'nt help is that i worked everything out using gaskets and not actually matching the ITBs to the head, (becuase i did'nt want to take my inlet manifold all off in case it all went tits up and did'nt work, lol) so i machined my self an aluminium adapter plate to match the S50 itbs with the M42 head, and that went fairly well, but i was never happy with having the adapter plate, one reason among other was that the ITBs and plenum sat quite high in the engine bay and stoped me from using my strut brace,

heres how i was first going to have the itbs
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/throttlebodies10small.jpg

and heres the aluminium adapter plate
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/throttlebodiessmall.jpg

time went by and i had the itbs fitted for about 8-months, then just recently i was browsing through ebay for a cylinder head, and found one for ?30, so i brought it with the intention of practicing headwork on it, and making the itbs fit properly,

heres the main problem with the itbs, the ports are the same size, just dont quite match
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/Photo-0029.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/Photo-0028.jpg

so i started to grind out the head and itbs so that they matched each other, that was only about an hours work, with a drill and tungsten carbide bit.

now its a case of bolting them to the head when the bolts do not all line up, you can see in this pic that there very very close, and i did even have to file a small ammount from either end so that the itbs sqeeze in around the studs,
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/ITBsonhead4.jpg

so with most of the obsticles out of the way i got on with making some little brackets up, and very luckily i happened to have some 2" aluminium angle thats about 3-4mm thick so i used that for some little right angle brackets.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/18small.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/17small.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/Photo-0037-1.jpg

and thats about it really, then got them bolted to the car
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/PICT0005small.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/PICT0009small.jpg
its still abit of a mess and needs some more tiding, but slowly getting there, i am working now on the spare cylinder head, the porting is going very well indeed, i am fitting bigger 34mm inlet valves and the inlet and exhaust valve seat/throats are being machined out to the maximum they can be,

heres some of the head work
before
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/M42small.jpg
after
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/port11small.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/portbeforeandafter.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/port10small-1.jpg

once all this is done then i will start on the bottom end, making it 2 or 2.1 liter, and a silly high RPM :D

steve
________
Ecig forum (http://www.ecigarettes123.com/)

[romkasponka]

looks very good!

I found this few days ago http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/itb/

[Alpine003]

looks very good!

I found this few days ago http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/itb/

This is what I did with my Acura 4 years ago. I recently acquired another set of GSX-R ITB's but they are going on the 2002.

IMO, ITB's are only good for track cars that have upgraded cams/headwork and constantly sees above 4000 rpms.

The itb's on the 2002 will more or less be for curiosity sakes and experimental with no intentions of leaving them on in the long run.

It seems that Carbon Fiber and ITB's are so overrated these days and it's usually the wrong people that adds to the hype. :rolleyes:

As for the above poster, definitely an "A" for effort. Curious to know the outcome on whether it was really worth it or not.

[tim_s]

i kinda disagree with the above (ITBs just for track cars). ITBs on my M42 made it have fantastic throttle reponse throughout the rev range, and (ok particularly at high rpms) it really went very well. It was pretty driveable in all conditions, it was the aftermarket ECU that let it down. I could not map megasquirt so that it would drive as well as factory.

My concerns with Steve's setup are how he's going to get MS to run well enough, although Steve's car is mainly a toy, whereas I had to use mine to drive around cities etc.
I will resume hostilities with my setup later in the year if I can pluck up the energy

[Alpine003]

It was pretty driveable in all conditions, it was the aftermarket ECU that let it down. I could not map megasquirt so that it would drive as well as factory.

Your sentence seems confusing saying it was driveable in all conditions but the ecu let it down. :confused:

The term "driveable" imo is a relative term for everyone. The issue that I have with ITB's is that most of the diy itb's looked niced and performed nice within a certain rev range but as for daily driveability, it was far from optimized.

I'm sure if someone spent enough time on tuning, they could get the driveability and refinement close to a factory tuned M car but I've only seen 5% of ITB cars that exhibited this trait. There is just too much r&d and tuning time involved to get the kind of refined ride that factory cars have for daily street use.

Of course if you're riding around on 800lb/in springs on the streets then ITB's will probably suit you and offer you that good "driveability". ;)

[tim_s]

i said it was 'pretty' driveable, which is probably a term that's used more in the UK. Lots of people have been in my car, and more or less everyone said that i was being really fussy over how it drove, but i didn't really want to accept any compromises. I have to spend quite a lot of time in slow-moving traffic and I could never get megasquirt to respond to IAT properly with MAF, and also i wasn't using the new hi res code and was never happy with the idle. Having said this, when I wasn't living in london, the car drove great, so well the girlfriend could drive it; it was only when I moved to london and had to spend loads of time in traffic that I found the ITBs tiring.
It all depends on definitions I guess. I'd say my car with MS and ITBs drove as nice if not better than factory in most conditions, apart from slow moving traffic and idle, especially when the inlet temps hiked up.
With MS improving all the time, especially the hi res code, and with some more improvements to the ITBs, I may be back with ITBs later on in the year.

[Alpine003]

I'd say my car with MS and ITBs drove as nice if not better than factory in most conditions, apart from slow moving traffic and idle, especially when the inlet temps hiked up.

I would say this is a definition of a street car as most people that live anywhere near a major city will most likely experience some amount of slow moving traffic and idle. Hence, I stand by my original statement that itb's are great for the track.

In my experience, I've noticed diy itb's are easier to tune for steady state cruising or higher rpm operation. Not necessarily the case with lower rpm and rock steady idle.

Are you using a Vacuum canister? If not, I found using one can help with the idle situation of ITB's. Really easy to construct out of PVC pipe, end caps, and some fittings from the hardware store.

As for the lower RPM driveability, I might try to utilize the secondary butterflies of my ITB's on my next project to see if those would make any differences.

[tim_s]

The idle and traffic issues have absolutely nothing to do with the ITBs. I would still have these issues if i were running MS with a single TB.
The idle seems to be due to the (lack of) resolution of msns with the normal code and fairly large injectors, and the traffic temperature problem is due to not fully understanding the relationship of inlet air temperature to the output of my MAF. You simply cannot blame the ITBs for both of these megasquirt issues. Megasquirt is a big undertaking, and is improving all the time; bottom line i've just not been good enough or had the time to get it perfect, especially as I'm running it in an unusual configuration. When I took on megasquirt, I was aware that this was likely to be a big project and that i'd have some small issues. Had I paid a lot more money and had the car properly set up and mapped on a more expensive standalone, I daresay I wouldn't have had those problems. Theoretically traffic and idle were not a problem with ITBs; it was my implementation of MS that caused the issues.


In my experience, I've noticed diy itb's are easier to tune for steady state cruising or higher rpm operation. Not necessarily the case with lower rpm and rock steady idle.

Are you using a Vacuum canister? If not, I found using one can help with the idle situation of ITB's. Really easy to construct out of PVC pipe, end caps, and some fittings from the hardware store

When I was running MAP i experimented with small plenums and with restrictors. I found MAP had more fundamental issues with ITBs than getting a stable vacuum reading. This is why I ran MAF. I've not found ITBs any harder or easier than a single TB to tune for steady cruising or high rpms. In fact especially when using MAP ITBs are really easy to tune at light load and low rpms.

I just don't really see many issues with running ITBs on a daily driver car; the difficult bit imo is getting the management right. Which in a roundabout way i think is similar to what you're saying, but i think its an important distinction.

[Alpine003]

I just don't really see many issues with running ITBs on a daily driver car; the difficult bit imo is getting the management right. Which in a roundabout way i think is similar to what you're saying, but i think its an important distinction.

Yes this is what I'm saying and tuning is obviously the key in making ITB's suitable for the streets if done right. It's just that I haven't seen many able to achieve or put the time into tuning a really refined map on ITB's that can rival the refinement and driveability of factory itb cars. Most usually lack either time or proper knowledge to fully achieve this. Hence why I say that itb's generally belong on the tracks.

That is not to say that no one should be using these on the streets. I would say do what works for them and their situation.

I would easily recommend itb's to a "street car" if by definition, you are riding around in a stripped out interior, 800+ lb/in springs, no a/c, race seat, straight pipe as a street car and are perfectly fine for using it as a daily driver. ;)

[nobrakese36]

So you eliminated the spacer?

[steve321]

yep, dont have it anymore, i did in the end actually need two spacers, there was another 10mm one in between the head and the adapter plate.
________
Water Bongs (http://glassbongs.org/)

[bmwman91]

Has anyone looked into slide throttles for this instead of butterfly valves? Although the way they open could lead to odd air flow vortices, and subsequently odd air-fuel mixing, they seem like a pretty neat concept. I have a lower M42 intake manifold on its way to me, and I hope to make some real design ideas for a sweet new manifold...then I just neet to get my Megasquirt working again!

[dino245]

I put my Hayabusa throttle body adapter up for sale in the clasified section. Check it out.

[Boyracer]

I am not quite sure how essential ITB's are for making big power on M42 :confused:

Honda S2000 makes 120 hp/l and first Integra Type R around 110 hp/l without ITB's, also Ferrari seems to be content running their current engines with one TB per cylinder bank (2 for F420 for example).

So clearly big power (for our cars atleast) can be achieved without ITB's. It is different matter for race cars that need to utilize every advantage they have. But we cannot go that far because of emission regulations anyway.

Why ITB's on BMW M cars then?

I think the reason might be in number of cylinders and driveability. 4 cyl inline engine fires once at 180 degrees of crank rotation and 6 cyl inline once at 120 degrees. So power (and induction) pulses come more often in 6 cyl engine.

Both 4 cyl and 6 cyl engines have common intake system for all cylinders but but with 6 cyl engine the induction pulses are closer together in time and they might overlap meaning there is less air going to cylinders. To avert this you could increase size of STB the cylinders share but that is not good for low speed running.

When you have ITB for each cylinder on 6 cyl engine there is no pulse overlapping between cylinders if the plenum and it's intake are large enough.

At low revs the overlapping intake pulses are not a problem because amount of air is not that great and time between pulses are quite long. But when you start revving the engine higher it is different. 6 cyl inline running at high revs (yes, M3 S5x...) have pulses close to eachother and they can affect eachother if you use STB. Solution is to have ITB's.

4 cyl inline running at *same* revs will have intake pulses further away to eachother and ITB's might not be needed because there is less pulse overlap.

So that's why 4 cyl Honda can run well on high revs without ITB's. And Ferrari V-8 plenum is split in two so it is basically two 4 cyl inlines, one TB per cylinder bank.

Does that make any sense or did I talk utter bollocks? :o

[kowalski]

the s14 has ITB's. and while the s2000 might now have itb's it just have a better designed intake system. rather then redesigning a full intake system to utilize just one throttle body why not use 4? Better flow, better throttle response. Everyone pics the mods that they feel like doing, whether its building a stroker motor or a forced induction motor, some people want to build ITB's some go other ways for the power. However i see no downside in making your engine more efficient, Plus, the m42 needs all the help it can get for power.

[Boyracer]

the s14 has ITB's. and while the s2000 might now have itb's it just have a better designed intake system. rather then redesigning a full intake system to utilize just one throttle body why not use 4? Better flow, better throttle response. Everyone pics the mods that they feel like doing, whether its building a stroker motor or a forced induction motor, some people want to build ITB's some go other ways for the power. However i see no downside in making your engine more efficient, Plus, the m42 needs all the help it can get for power.

Yes S14 does indeed have ITB's BUT:

1. It has 0,5 (0,7 in EVO sport) liter larger capacity than bog standard M42
2. It has rev limiter set (over?) 7200 RPM
3. It was designed to go racing from the factory -> even higher revs were in plans so ITB's made sense.

I am not saying anyone should not put ITB's to M42 if they want to, far from it! Throttle response will likely be better... I just think the effort and money could be put on better use elsewhere on street car. ITB's will help with radical cams producing strong intake pulses on high revs, something that is not present on many M42's.

But I think people should atleast consider custom made intake runners (perhaps lower part of E30 M42 intake?) and plenum with single throttle body perhaps from 2.5 liter M50 engine which flows nicely up to 192 hp from factory :)

I think it would be quite bit cheaper than ITB setup (german ebay: 300€ for S50 ITB's vs 10€ for M50 TB, same amount of money for plenum for both) and if you design TB system correctly is should flow ok up to 190 - 200 hp, just as in Integra Type R or S2000. That is if you can get the M42 to rev up to 8000-9000 RPM :D

[m44power]

hey guys do a little search about brandnew yamaha R1 ITB's they have a solinoid to make the Tubes longer for low end torque and high rpm power AWESOME!!!!

[Boyracer]

You must mean this :)

http://r-world.yme.com/images/YZF-R1/preview/spec02.jpg

It is a neat system! Problem is that those bike engines rev about double M42 does. Also they do not have to have any low rev torque...

I calculated optimal runner lenghts for M42 that revs upto 8000 RPM and has two positions. Lengts were 30 cm and 60 cm, those will give good top end power and low end torque. So basically at high revs you would have 30 cm runners but on low revs another 30 cm of runner would be stacked on top of that so it's then 30 + 30 = 60 cm.

That is quite difficult lenght to fit to a engine bay sensibly on DIY tech. But if you look at E36 M42 it has been done for you by BMW :) Ok, there is only two "extension" pipes for four short pipes but only one cylinder is sucking the air at the time.

If you are willing to sacrifice low end torque then shorter pipes bit like that R1 pic could work well on high revs :o

[Alpine003]

hey guys do a little search about brandnew yamaha R1 ITB's they have a solinoid to make the Tubes longer for low end torque and high rpm power AWESOME!!!!

Suzuki does something a bit different by offering two butterflies sequentially in each intake runner opening at different times.

Alot of people recently seems to be addressing intake and exhaust enhancements but I think a lot of them often overlook the headwork and/or more agressive cams needed to really make any intake/exhaust mods worthwhile.

It doesn't make sense to me on why someone would spend the money/time/effort/frustrations on an ITB setup if they don't even have headwork or cams to end up with minimal gains.

[Boyracer]

Alot of people recently seems to be addressing intake and exhaust enhancements but I think a lot of them often overlook the headwork and/or more agressive cams needed to really make any intake/exhaust mods worthwhile.

It doesn't make sense to me on why someone would spend the money/time/effort/frustrations on an ITB setup if they don't even have headwork or cams to end up with minimal gains.

I completely agree!

What ultimately defines engines capability to produce power is intake path on cylinder head (intake port, valve seat and valves). It is the largest restriction. You can improve every other area (ITB's, exhaust manifold etc.) but because they really are not the restriction, gains are small.

As on discussion on other thread, stock TB is good for atleast 210 hp (Metric Mechanics use it as it is). They use around 260-270 degree cams so apparently there is no problem yet with intake pulses. It might be different when you have 300 degree cams but I think there is no way in hell that would be road legal from point of emissions...

I think I will start thread about my project plans :)

[steve321]

what i have always been told tho, (by kent cams and piper cams) that with the standard TB and a really wild cam the car would be terrible, really rough ect, but they said with ITB;s you can run virtualy a race cam and still be ok for road use.

steve
________
LUPUS ADVICE (http://www.health-forums.org/lupus/)

[ose30]

Yes S14 does indeed have ITB's BUT:

1. It has 0,5 (0,7 in EVO sport) liter larger capacity than bog standard M42


320IS S14 is just under 2.0L and has ITB's. It produces 193hp. I suppose S14 block is more or less M10 block, so only the head is "special" stuff.

[dino245]

Here are the ITB,s that I will be using for my set up. I was going to use the Hayabusa set up but after much thought I chose to get some Euro E36 M3 ITB,s like the ones Tim_s has and make them work on my engine. It was a good decision I think.

[nickmpower]

MAF or MAP?

[Alpine003]

I was going to use the Hayabusa set up but after much thought I chose to get some Euro E36 M3 ITB,s like the ones Tim_s has and make them work on my engine. It was a good decision I think.

Care to expand your reasoning?

[dino245]

Although I have been preaching the use of MAF's I think I will be switching over to MAP. I have realized that the Haltech system was designed as a MAP based system so the load grid and fuel grids are designed around this.

I chose not to use the Hayabusa stuff because it looked less than stock. I am all about form following function but when you open the hood of a modified car and it looks stock, that is a big deal to me. Its more ego than anything. Ironicly if I had not gotten the adapter made and just went for the Euro stuff it would have been cheaper for me. I paid 775 for the adapter and 100 for the throttle bodies and 150 for the trumpets. I then paid 550 for the throttle bodies shipped form Germany and 150 for the plenum shipped from Germany and 75 for the factory ceramic spacers that go under the trottle bodies. All in US currency. So I live and learn.

The next step is the carbon fiber plenum. I will keep yall up to date as I make progress.

[Boyracer]

Cool photos and plan Dino! I think that is the way to do the ITB setup :)

General problem with bike ITB's is the throttle plate angle which is larger than in M3 ITB's. This means small throttle opening on bike ITB's will increase air going to cylinders very fast, not ideal.

[Boyracer]

Dino, can you measure the intake runner dimensions of those ITB's? It would be very interesting to know how closely they match M42 intake port size and shape and if there is need for adapter :eek:

[tim_s]

nice one! Guess what's fallen into my lap recently? Bagged myself another free set of TBs :)
Don't know when I'll get around to using them again, been there done that with ITBs and happy with a single TB for what I'm using the car for at the moment. Tempted to build some as a trackday special though! what kind of plenum are you going to make?

[steve321]

will it work with the trumpets cos there the the as i had to start with,
(on an E30 it may be different) but the trumpets where usless on my with M3 evo ITB's cos they just hit the alternator

its quite close see, cos the angle of the inlet ports on the head is different to the M3 heads, http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/PICT0010b.jpg

idealy i would of thort an easy plenum design would be this

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/enginein3.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/stevemitchell321/enginein2.jpg

steve
________
Kitchen Measures (http://kitchenmeasures.com/)

[steve321]

you can see in the pics that the itbs on the m3 are pointing up in the up (so the curved trumpets fit ok) but on my M42 the itb point (almost perfectly) sideway,

steve
________
Lovely Wendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[tim_s]

steve, i think the zoom motorsport plenum is rubbish - unequal length runners, and the 'plenum' bit isn't really acting as one. must lose loads of power. yours is much better, as was my old one!
the trumpets don't work on the e30 either. the e30 has less room to play with than yours mate.

[dino245]

As for the plenum, I want to duplicate the the stock e36m3 set. I had wanted to reposition the alternator so that I can install an oil cooler, but that is a project in its self. I will be making the plenum from carbon composite and use the stock trumpets. The length of the runner through the trumpets and through the throttle body is about 12 inches, which is long but this is the correct leght acording to the pipemax software I am using to design the header and the old Hayabusa set up lenght.

By using the stock stuff it will look clean and be more reliable. The added benifit with moving the alternator to the location of the old A/C compressor is a lower CG, HA HA.

[Alpine003]

I applaud your efforts on the ITB's. I hope you can find the proper tune to make these work good.

[dino245]

Haltech standalone.

[AL GReeNeRy]

how about incorporating this with a maf upgrade or possibly reusing the stock afm.

http://store.666fabrication.com/m42-short-runner-intake-manifo.html

[luigginator]

hey boy im new here and i have a e36 318is stock but i dont know what to do with it i want to run fastttt!!!! waht i shut do????????

[haledj]

hey boy im new here and i have a e36 318is stock but i dont know what to do with it i want to run fastttt!!!! waht i shut do????????

Start by making your own thread in the member profiles section; tell us about yourself, your car, and what you want from your car.

Also, please use real words.

Welcome!

[Febi Guibo]

actually, can we get an update etc where everybody is at with this?

over at bf.c, gizmo318i has a pic of his euro S5x based itb setup... and there's a rumor of a dbilas kit for sale somewhere near me, I think...

anyway, any ITB updates please post! thx!!

[haledj]

I am trying to get a ITB project started. I want to run 2 banks of injectors, one right at the ports and one right after the throttle bodies. I need to figure out what sportbikes use throttle bodies that are not one piece, but come apart like these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=160193394255&rd=1).
Original equipment EFI systems are configured to meet very stringent emission regulations and to provide "soft" driveability characteristics. Positioning the injector as close to the inlet valve is beneficial in this respect. Maximum power however, is usually obtained by moving the injector away from the inlet valve, some racing engine manufacturers going as far as to mount the injector high in the velocity stack and others installing two injectors, designed to operate at different RPM. When TWM designed the throttle bodies our engineers were not in favor of having high pressure fuel on the atmosphere side of the throttle plate, although this could have resulted in some power increase. We compromised by mounting the injector as far from the cylinder head as possible while still maintaining the safety afforded by keeping the fuel downstream of the butterfly.

[swiss318is]

why you dont use something like that?? direct bolt on for the 318is e30/e36! they also have the enginemanagement and the maps.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/db10010005.jpg

[hoevesruperd]

actually, can we get an update etc where everybody is at with this?


i had posted a thread a few weeks ago about a set of M3 itbs i had found. i'm still in the research and development phase. i decided to take my time with this. i'll prep the car this summer (complete new paint, suspension overhaul and other maintenance and mods) then by december 2008 i will be ready to start working on an M42B21 ITB that hopefully will be dropped in by summer 2009.

the goal is to have a reliable 100hp/liter stroker by the time i finish university
this thread will be very helpful. as Febi said, any updates on your projects will be appreciated

[hoevesruperd]

why you dont use something like that?? direct bolt on for the 318is e30/e36! they also have the enginemanagement and the maps.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/db10010005.jpg

for those interested
http://www.dbilas.de/dbilas_eng/index.htm
1453 euros seems a bit pricey tho.
throttle bodies from GSXR can be found on ebay under 300$, then the adapter has to be machined. i'm sure someone you know knows someone that works in a machine shop so it should be too pricey, or get it machined at your university's faculty of engineering. then the airbox can be made out of fiberglass insted of carbon fiber i guess by building a mold and laying down the fiber. (which IMO is one of the interesting parts, to make different prototypes and see how to tune the plenum and runners)
then the engine management being megasquirt
the total is probably under 1500
what are you guys thinking?

[swiss318is]

go and have a look!!
http://www.autoscout24.it/Details.aspx?id=135899799
its a m42 engine with ITB from a 320is... how did he do that!!??

btw..! let me know if one needs a complete dbilas set.. perhaps i can do sth with the price!

[ajatya2]

I realy wish ITB's were cheap and eazy lol

[cameroid]

I have fitted a set of Toyota 4age 20V ITB's to my M40 motor, fitted a Custom Exhaust branch and s/s system, used a M20 325i flywheel and clutch, and used a aftermarket EMU, the motor now pushes out 181 BHP.
I will post some pics if anyone is interested in the ITB setup? it is a cheap option as a set cost me £100 and you use the standard injectors!!
cheers

[swiss318is]

I have fitted a set of Toyota 4age 20V ITB's to my M40 motor, fitted a Custom Exhaust branch and s/s system, used a M20 325i flywheel and clutch, and used a aftermarket EMU, the motor now pushes out 181 BHP.
I will post some pics if anyone is interested in the ITB setup? it is a cheap option as a set cost me £100 and you use the standard injectors!!
cheers

thank you but i dont think that anyones is interested in a cheap, working ITB setup on his m42.... :D :D :D :D :D

post pics and more infos... p l e a s e :eek:

[m44power]

a question for ITBs guys where did you put crankcase ventilation ? and where to connect the canster hose ? and if you have problems with the brake vacum ?

[OKTAY]

To cameroid and swiss318is,
Cameroid says m40 not m42. Or is it just a misprint? Also what aftermarket EMU? I assume it is ECU and probably something haltech(ish)...
My request is not just pictures also a complete working kit to sale to m42club members :)
I will be the first in line to buy...

[xwill112x]

the real queation is...


how much $$$ for the itb setup?

[dsm2002]

I have fitted a set of Toyota 4age 20V ITB's to my M40 motor, fitted a Custom Exhaust branch and s/s system, used a M20 325i flywheel and clutch, and used a aftermarket EMU, the motor now pushes out 181 BHP.
I will post some pics if anyone is interested in the ITB setup? it is a cheap option as a set cost me £100 and you use the standard injectors!!
cheers

Interested ...

[ojingoh]

definitely interested in your 4-A GE ITB setup :)

[fiftytakedowns]

Im also interested in the Toyota setup.

what about GSX-r ITB's Definitley a cheaper alternative...

[littleboyblues]

I know this kinda goes against the point of this thread but what advantages does ITB have over just one HUGE one. I'm sure a Huge throttle body and huge plenum will flow just as good as ITBs. Shoot me down:D

[tim_s]

I know this kinda goes against the point of this thread but what advantages does ITB have over just one HUGE one. I'm sure a Huge throttle body and huge plenum will flow just as good as ITBs. Shoot me down:D

There's much more to it than simply the area of the throttles. In brief, one of the most obvious is that the throttles are much closer to the inlet valves, so less 'dead' area and faster throttle response. Also simlarly reduces pulsing on idle, plus cylinders aren't competing for air in a shared plenum - whole idea is independent supply of same amount of air at same velocity and temp - ITBs are potentially better than most single throttle + manifold designs at delivering this. Port length/dia/taper etc can also be tweaked with TBs to suit modified engines.
In reality on the m42 the standard inlet is pretty well designed and on a standardish engine I don't think there's much to be gained from TBs. Having said that, my engine appears to more or less flat line from circa 5,7k rpm to it's 7,3k redline (it makes between 190-200bhp in this range)- I think altering the inlet would help with this. On a standard m42 you don't see this, though - the inlet seems to be very well designed for the displacement/output. I'd be surprised if there was much in terms of power to be gained by doing this on a near-standard car unless running totally loopy cams. I've actually run TBs both on my old 2.1 and on a 1.8/1.9 with reground cams. On the latter two engines (same car) although I didn't have enough time to properly map them and I think it needed longer trumpets , and there wasn't an adequate cold air supply imo (was running trumpets with socks without any additional cold air feed), the car felt no faster on ITBs (and needed no extra fuel on the map either suggesting minimal gains), plus didn't pull quite as well lower down (again think due to poor choice of trumpet length). Bottom line is that there's not a lot wrong with the standard inlet.

[littleboyblues]

Wow, thanks for the info:) really clears stuff up.

Theres the phenomonum of pulses in the intake runners. Dont know the name so i'm just going to call it pulses. It makes sence that the as the rpm's increase the number of pulses increase, over a given period of time. As you said these pulses interfere with each other at high rpm's and cause some.....badness.....(low pressure areas:S). Is this why you don't want a shared plenum for a sceamer. Just conferming this.
Going by what i've read, longer runners means the intake is tuned for a lower rpm while shorter is for higher. ITB's vertually have no runners so i'm assuming they do not utalize these pulses - there just going for max flow. Also, the stock intake has pritty long runners. Do you know what rpm range BMW was tuning the intake for.

Thanks

[Boyracer]

Going by what i've read, longer runners means the intake is tuned for a lower rpm while shorter is for higher. ITB's vertually have no runners so i'm assuming they do not utalize these pulses - there just going for max flow. Also, the stock intake has pritty long runners. Do you know what rpm range BMW was tuning the intake for.

Runner lenght with ITB's depend on how you design them and they definitely use pulse tuning :)

ITB's are only one component on intake path and they have fixed lenght, you cannot change it easily. But you can tune the total intake path by choosing suitable lenght intake trumpets (or velocity stacks).

Here's what I did:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3336/3276388422_e7e8963f15.jpg

I shortened stock S50B30 intake trumpet from 20 cm -> 12 cm. This moved tuned frequency up by 1000 RPM.

They should work well to over 8000 rpm but at the cost of power in 3000 - 5000 rpm range. The loss can easily be 15-20% compared to longer intake system...

One idea could be variable lenght intake. With short intake trumpets the intake paths is about 35 cm but if you put unmodified intake trumpets before shortened ones, the total lenght of intake path is 55 cm. That will tune the intake to work well in mid rpm area. Then just tell ECU to send signal to solenoid to move the longer intake trumpets away from intake path when revs rise beyond 5000 rpm so engine can breath through short runners :)

[littleboyblues]

Cool Thanks boyracer

[m44power]

i post some pictures of my ITB setup is not completed yet and am running with stock ECU and some PVC (plastic) tube (temporary of course) for plenum

here some video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfNB0dTQ3c

http://s670.photobucket.com/albums/vv68/s42performance/

[m44power]

I have some questions about ITB's to disscus with you guys here ....

shorter runners are good for high rpms and longer for low -mid rpms we all ready know why ....

so...

1. Why m3 e36 3.0 with 286hp use long runners and m3 3.0 GT's with 290hp and m3 3.2 with 321hp use sort runners? some 3.0litre people upgrade the runners with EVO ones.

2. e30 m3's have 8.5 litre intake plenum for 2.0-2.5 litre engines. We need big intake plenums?

3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?

4. dbillas desing use short runners and small plenum and far away the butterfly from the valve . what about this?

5. every m3 have the Maf in the center of the plenum (dbillas too) CSL;s and every other plenum i have see it have the maf boot in the front. which is better?

6. some engines uses metal runners and some others use plastic ones . which is better?

one more

7. how long it has to be the runner in to the plenum ? does it matter ? dbillas does not put the runner in the plenum why?

only this for the momment .

(sorry for my "inglish" )

[HaNasich]

i can only answer number 6 - of which i know from Peugeot engines - plastic runners are far better as they are smother and isolating from heat much better than metal.
in case the runners doesn't have to support weight (serious weight) than plastic is better.

as for number 5 - the location of MAF - i dont think its much of a performance perspective but ease of implementation.
if the case was about flap-door AFM than it should have been taking into consideration, as the door movement effects the chamber volume and air flow, but MAF effect is neglect able.



Ron.

[m44power]

I have one more point that im thinking today if i didnt use a plenum with my ITB's only with straght line runners with some stand alone ECU runner longer does it matter ?

[m44power]

no one?

[Boyracer]

Can you reword the question, I did not quite understand it :)

[m44power]

I have some questions about ITB's to disscus with you guys here ....

shorter runners are good for high rpms and longer for low -mid rpms we all ready know why ....

so...

1. Why m3 e36 3.0 with 286hp use long runners and m3 3.0 GT's with 290hp and m3 3.2 with 321hp use sort runners? some 3.0litre people upgrade the runners with EVO ones.

2. e30 m3's have 8.5 litre intake plenum for 2.0-2.5 litre engines. We need big intake plenums?

3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?

4. dbillas desing use short runners and small plenum and far away the butterfly from the valve . what about this?

5. every m3 have the Maf in the center of the plenum (dbillas too) CSL;s and every other plenum i have see it have the maf boot in the front. which is better?

6. some engines uses metal runners and some others use plastic ones . which is better?

one more

7. how long it has to be the runner in to the plenum ? does it matter ? dbillas does not put the runner in the plenum why?

only this for the momment .

(sorry for my "inglish" )

:cool:

[Boyracer]

Ah these... I thought I had answered earlier :)

1. Why m3 e36 3.0 with 286hp use long runners and m3 3.0 GT's with 290hp and m3 3.2 with 321hp use sort runners? some 3.0litre people upgrade the runners with EVO ones.

3.2 engine revs little bit higher so to tune intake for it, runners must be shorter. Also, 3.2 engine has double vanos (I think) which should give more power in low and middle range so intake system can be more optimized to give more power on high revs.

2. e30 m3's have 8.5 litre intake plenum for 2.0-2.5 litre engines. We need big intake plenums?

Intake plenum size has some effect on power curve but I have not seen too many ways to calculate it. Personally I would try to copy race car designs which usually are as large as possible permitted by the available space.

3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?

I think MM pulse intake is ordinary E30 itnake with one pulse chamber in each runner. It seems to work in a way that on certain rpm's pressure waves going away from intake valve up in the intake runner goes to chamber and is reflected by the dead end.

4. dbillas desing use short runners and small plenum and far away the butterfly from the valve . what about this?

Well I think they work ok but I suspect they are not 100% as optimized as for example BMW Motorsport intake designs. Dbilas uses same components in different models from different car manufacturers so there is going to be some compromises.

5. every m3 have the Maf in the center of the plenum (dbillas too) CSL;s and every other plenum i have see it have the maf boot in the front. which is better?

I think again is best to look at race cars, they have tried most things out to see what works. And usually the intake plenum opens towards front of the car to give shorter path to air and smaller angle for air to turn while entering plenum.

I would personally go for CSL design :)

6. some engines uses metal runners and some others use plastic ones . which is better?

I think plastic might be better. It conducts less heat so air entering engine is cooler and gives more power (thats why S50 engine has ceramic insulators between cylinder head and ITB's I guess). I think plastic is also lighter. But metal runners might be easier to make iuf you have tools.

7. how long it has to be the runner in to the plenum ? does it matter ? dbillas does not put the runner in the plenum why?

Usually race car runners end to the plenum wall, on road cars runners enter plenum maybe 50 - 100 mm. I would again go with the race car design :)

[m44power]

nice :)

[m44power]

3.2 engine revs little bit higher so to tune intake for it, runners must be shorter. Also, 3.2 engine has double vanos (I think) which should give more power in low and middle range so intake system can be more optimized to give more power on high revs.


good point but some 3.0 guys retrofit 3.2 runners for more power :confused:

and m3 GT's they have single vanos and short runners with same intake and more hp

[nuvolarossa]

modify the runner length is a way to change the power curve... longer runner usually means power/torque gains translated lower on rpm than before :)

now I don't know about those guys you mentioned but you don't specify where (at wich revs) they were searching for more power ;)

even the runner diameter/shape can have a huge role when searching for more power as the intake ports on the head... all need to be engineered as a whole system. A runner is not only a runner... it's diameter or it's optimal lenght depends from intake port size and from plenum shape and size. If then you change the plenum of if you heavily enlarge ports in the head maybe you'll need to change the runners... I had a lot of fun "playing" with pricey engine simulators of a friend's shop and there are a lot of variables in game.

[m44power]

modify the runner length is a way to change the power curve... longer runner usually means power/torque gains translated lower on rpm than before :)

now I don't know about those guys you mentioned but you don't specify where (at wich revs) they were searching for more power ;)

even the runner diameter/shape can have a huge role when searching for more power as the intake ports on the head... all need to be engineered as a whole system. A runner is not only a runner... it's diameter or it's optimal lenght depends from intake port size and from plenum shape and size. If then you change the plenum of if you heavily enlarge ports in the head maybe you'll need to change the runners... I had a lot of fun "playing" with pricey engine simulators of a friend's shop and there are a lot of variables in game.

thats general rule... :confused:

[fiftytakedowns]

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewtopic/p,607332/#607332

Good source of ITB info... not sure if any could bolt onto the part of the plenum right after the injectors.

[fiftytakedowns]

Do itbs increase torque at all, or mostly just sustain it?

[steeldonkey]

the real queation is...


how much $$$ for the itb setup?

Its cost me about £130 to buy and fit my itb's and get them to a running model.

If your interested i have a thread on it here:
http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=165983

[fiftytakedowns]

cant access the thread?

[nuvolarossa]

link works fine, nice job! Can't wait to hear them screaming at full throttle :)

[dwtaylorpdx]

Typically a ITB setup will add throttle response and top end power. Given the same diameter air path a ITB and a Single TB are similar in the mid RPM range. Most I've driven add awesome initial throttle then it smooths out but with a good cam at about 4500 watch out ! :)

Dave

[El-Kanal]

Did anybody try using Slide Throttles, as they did on the S14s?

http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3performance/tech_articles/engine-tech/dtm_slides/index.htm

By todays CNC machines it shouldn't be to hard to have a set made, but is the thorttle response really that bad?

[dwtaylorpdx]

Couple things I have not seen mentioned, but thought I'd point out/see what others thought.

First, if you have variable valve timing, the intake runner length should become a much less important variable. Its why the S2000 just uses a honking big intake, and why Honda's in particular respond so well to exhaust and improved intake packages.

Second, back when we all ran side draft Webbers at the track, the manifolds had vacuum logs on them. It was a 1/2 to 3/4" dia pipe that connected the runners below the throttle plates. With the carbs it was to make them less balance sensitive, but we also tapped any needed vacuum off of them. I wonder is a log with check valves would help balance the vacuum signal off the throttle bodies so you could centralize a vacuum signal?

Thoughts?

Dave

[boldrix]

hi,somebody have good picture of s50b30 ITBs on m42

[4banger]

what about dual tb's? say 1 for cly 1&3 and 1 for 4&2 ?

[El-Kanal]

That's what I'm doing right now to my E36, I'm keeping the DISA flap, and fiting an Ford double throttle body, need to sort out the Vacuums...

[Redpolack]

would you have some videos if the car running?

[Longerr]

Hi, guys, am working on Lotus 7 project with m42 engine. Last year I was using engine from 318ti and it worked pretty well but than I have destoyed it, this year I'm using engine from 318is with Dbilas ITB and a lighter fly wheel, the problem I have with this engine is that it runs much worse than the stock engine from 318ti, above 5.800rpm it goes very good but untill that its worse than stock. My idea is that the desing of the "air box" of dbilas itb is not good. Otherwise I really dont know where can be the problem. Any suggestions? It would help me a lot, thx

http://picasaweb.google.com/Longerr82/Lotus7V20#5465121528593512146

[max123]

Out of curiosity has anyone dyno'd a dbilas ITB setup with no other mods. They don't state any increases and I just wanted to find out what the real world advantages are. Or, is it only a mod that becomes worthwhile once the engine internals have been modified and you are singing up at 8,000rpm

[Warsteiner]

10.010.005
318is E30
1,8 16V 100kW
M42B18
14/19 KW/HP
inkl. Chip
1453.09
Direct from their website. 19HP gain inclusive of chip.

You should always re-tune when optimizing your change and they did because they have a chip with the package.

Better throttle response and more power are great attributes to ITB's!

It's hard to say what the HP increase would be unless you dyno before and after the mod on a built motor because changing to higher compression can do wonders all by itself. Even with my built motor I won't be seeing 8K rpm but probably 7,500 rpm for longevity and saftey.

I won't be able to give dyno numbers with ITB's on a stock motor but maybe deekay:D can if he is willing to spend the money on a dyno? I will be dynoing my car that has the stroker with ITB's and MSII.

Cheers,
~Ralph

[deekay]

i'd like to get my wideband in before i do.

if i get a wild hair up my ass i MAY put stock manifold and stock chip back in for a baseline, but i'm not making any promises, and i have to head to another army training session in july. but we'll see if i can make it happen before then.

[Janne]

Here is my e36 m42 with Dbilas itb and chip: http://s303.photobucket.com/albums/nn158/Janne87/Itb/

Throttle response increased very much with itb. :cool:

[thedguy]

I have some questions about ITB's to disscus with you guys here ....

shorter runners are good for high rpms and longer for low -mid rpms we all ready know why ....

3. Why metric mechanic in camber pulse intake make tha tube so sort ?it wasnt better if the make them longer ? or make more distance from the intake valve ?



When I spoke to MM about these in person Jim was setting them up mostly for high rpm power. Back in his oval track days he said he put them on headers as well as the intake sides. They made it very hard to feel where the engine ran out of power and had a problem with drivers blowing up engines.

[xsjado]

saw this on r3v...m42 itb...anyone know details of this car?look really badass!!

http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=176182


scroll down.....

[deekay]

i finally got my wideband installed... and apparently between MarkD and i, we figured out a pretty optimal tune :)

setup:

-motronic 1.7 w/ MarkD 91-octane chip
-dbilas ITBs
-bosch design-3 24lb/hr injectors
-"power boost valve" adjustable fuel pressure regulator
-2.5" exhaust after cat

the new injectors went in at the same time because my recent smog check showed me being very lean (average HCs:~80, me:10, and CO2 was very low as well)- the old ones were 21lb/hr delphi 2-pintles.

AFR @ WOT fluctuated between 11 and 13 for about half an hour of driving, and then settled in exactly at 12.8, which is what he's stated is optimal here. didn't have to touch fuel pressure at all. i'm amazed i wasn't pinging at WOT before. the car feels a little stronger at both part- and full-throttle with the bigger injectors.

end result- evidently since i'm using injectors basically 25% larger than stock, and still running the stock AFM and cat, apparently ITBs will help you flow a lot more than the stock 19lb/hr injectors will handle. anyone planning on an ITB project should not try to save money there.

[fiftytakedowns]

How much quicker does it feel compared to stock?

[E36-italia]

just spotted these two images on speedhunters (http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/02/15/event-gt-gt-omega-oil-tsukuba-soukoukai-pt3.aspx) ...

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/2011/FEB2011/OmegaO-PT3/IMG_0190.jpg
Does anybody has more info on those itb's?
with no filter...it will be noisy as hell i think.

It's missing also the heater and stuff (no need in a track car)
Any further info 'bout the car will be welcome too!

[fiftytakedowns]

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/JULY2009/TP09-P2/TP09-235.jpg

they are claiming 194 hp

[MLM]

Thought you guys may appreciate a link to my ITB build thread. Sorry it is on another forum. I may copy it across if there is loys of interest.

http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index.php?showtopic=28044

Includes CFD analysis of the dbilas plenum and an intended but not yet produced replacement.

[nuvolarossa]

Thought you guys may appreciate a link to my ITB build thread. Sorry it is on another forum. I may copy it across if there is loys of interest.

http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index.php?showtopic=28044

Includes CFD analysis of the dbilas plenum and an intended but not yet produced replacement.

nice one, waiting to see the new plenum and those angled trumpets :)
I'm following!

[Nivola]

Just thought I'd post my ITBs -- it's been a while.
My current set-up (2.1 stroker on the horizon)...

When I first bought her:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u71/Nivola368/IMG_2768-2.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u71/Nivola368/IMG_2767-1.jpg

And current (albeit she needs a light steam cleaning):
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u71/Nivola368/P1020309.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u71/Nivola368/P1020311.jpg

[fiftytakedowns]

post it up, I cant wait to see it.

[Nivola]

post it up, I cant wait to see it.

Updated above.

[fiftytakedowns]

holy shiet man, how does it feel? how does it compare to the Pulse chambers that you had before. (gas mileage change?)

[Nivola]

holy shiet man, how does it feel? how does it compare to the Pulse chambers that you had before. (gas mileage change?)

No comparison, more power and it revs like a banshee up to ~7500 with the associated s/w.

ITBs > any non FI intake system.

My mileage is surprisingly the same.

[fiftytakedowns]

No comparison, more power and it revs like a banshee up to ~7500 with the associated s/w.

ITBs > any non FI intake system.

My mileage is surprisingly the same.

thanks for the info, What coils are those?

[M42Technik]

More info on your setup? Insanely clean, looks like it came that way from the factory! Well done.

[-318is-]

so looking at some set ups and one listed on this page, says there running s50 tb's via an air box and running the stock maf/afm is this possible?
from what ive gathered you can run 19.5lb 204cc Bosch injectors which the o2 sensor will accomadate and then run higher lift cams with a remap. so can i also on top of this run itbs on stock ecu? i really dont want to get in depth with Ms as if i had to id just do a straight turbo setup as running ms just to have itbs seems pointless for what its worth.

[bmwman91]

Hey Nivola, that looks awesome. Do you ever come out to the Bay Area for meets or anything? I'd love to get a closer look and talk car stuff!

[MLM]

so looking at some set ups and one listed on this page, says there running s50 tb's via an air box and running the stock maf/afm is this possible?
from what ive gathered you can run 19.5lb 204cc Bosch injectors which the o2 sensor will accomadate and then run higher lift cams with a remap. so can i also on top of this run itbs on stock ecu? i really dont want to get in depth with Ms as if i had to id just do a straight turbo setup as running ms just to have itbs seems pointless for what its worth.

Yup itb's + stock ecu possible with appropriate retune. I have a local guy who will do a full dyno tune and burn the custom map on the chip. has done supercharger setups etc so the ecu is capable, just needs to maintain same sensor regime.

[Nivola]

Hey Nivola, that looks awesome. Do you ever come out to the Bay Area for meets or anything? I'd love to get a closer look and talk car stuff!

I live in the East Bay; haven't had much time for meets as of late -- albeit my M coupe was at Dorkfest (driven by friends of mine while I was working overseas).

The dbilas ITBs are currently out of the car (for registration) and the OEM intake is back on; I haven't had time to put them back in...

[dude8383]

It wouldn't pass with the ITB's? It looks completely factory!

[bwawuz02]

I was clearing out my inbox of old emails and thought I would add this here.
here's the link to their website: http://www.gttechnic.com/catalog.html

We make an adapter for the head that makes it possible to fit the S54 throttle bodies. Cost is $375. You have to get used TBs from a wrecked E46 M3 and then you keep the car all BMW. You can get them for about $750 with the linkages. This makes it more affordable and a cleaner installation.

In the picture I don't have the fuel rail installed, but get the injectors along with the TBs, fuel rail and air tube. You have to fab a few things, but these are all easy tasks.

Donald
GT Technic

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/bwawuz02/car%20stuff/Manifold009.jpg
http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/bwawuz02/car%20stuff/Manifold005.jpg

[craz azn]

I was clearing out my inbox of old emails and thought I would add this here.
here's the link to their website: http://www.gttechnic.com/catalog.html

We make an adapter for the head that makes it possible to fit the S54 throttle bodies. Cost is $375. You have to get used TBs from a wrecked E46 M3 and then you keep the car all BMW. You can get them for about $750 with the linkages. This makes it more affordable and a cleaner installation.

In the picture I don't have the fuel rail installed, but get the injectors along with the TBs, fuel rail and air tube. You have to fab a few things, but these are all easy tasks.

Donald
GT Technic


+1 for Donald, he is a great guy, and one heck of a source of knowledge when it comes to anything BMW related!

[bwawuz02]

^^WTF??? First post in 3.5 years!

[danlolasdad]

just spotted these two images on speedhunters (http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/02/15/event-gt-gt-omega-oil-tsukuba-soukoukai-pt3.aspx) ...

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/2011/FEB2011/OmegaO-PT3/IMG_0190.jpg
Does anybody has more info on those itb's?
with no filter...it will be noisy as hell i think.

It's missing also the heater and stuff (no need in a track car)
Any further info 'bout the car will be welcome too!

those are toyota 4age 20v itb's with homemade/custom inlet manifold/adapter/s

as are these

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/JULY2009/TP09-P2/TP09-235.jpg