intro, new car, new mods, new problem

[tophertii]

Back ground:
I'm new to the world of e30's, had a 2002tii a few years back. I just picked up an IS, a week ago last Tuesday. I was originally looking for 325is but this forum covinced me to consider a 318is. I found one in CA that was represented as very clean and mechanically sound. The pics looked good as did the description. After a few conversations with the owner I bought it. I live in Utah and flew to CA to pick it up. The car has high milage 240,00 but the car is clean for its age. The interior is almost perfect. I rather replace an engine than chase rust or a bad interior.

The drive home was uneventful, always a bit sketchy driving a car for any distance that you don't know. The first thing I learned was the suspension was shot. Coming down Donnor's pass I hit some rough pavement in a corner and bounced two feet side ways, shocks were gone. I only had springs. I would know not how bad the suspension was until I got home and got the car up in the air. The car ran well but there was a noise or buzz at around 3500 rpm. I was guessing that it might a the timing chain tensioner. Still may be the case but I later learned the guibo was going, the center bearing was completely toast, and a cv boot was ripped.

The Mods
Fast forward a week and a half:
The car now has HR sports, new control arms, new sway bar end links, Bilstein sports, new guibo, new center bearing, new cv boots - damn that grease is nasty - and a rebuilt shift linkage.

The problem:
The car was running fine well a pulled it into the garage a week and a half ago but it will now will not start. The engine turns over and makes one or two attempts to start but not much more. I can't tell you how bumbed I am after spending all weekend and ever week night rebuilding the suspension and not be able to drive my new car. I can't wait to see what the new suspension feels like!

I looked at the plugs when I first got it home. They looked good for a car with a tired engine, mostly white with some minor carbon build up. I pulled them again after I tried to start the car they were dark, wet and smelled of gas. I'm confused why the car ran for 800 miles and some around town driving will no issues and now will not start. I know the exhaust got hung up on the o2 sensor, but I can't think of anything that I might have done while doing the work that would cause this problem. I replaced to plugs this morning. No luck. I pulled them and the tips are covered with fuel. Seems as though I not getting much if any spark. BTW plug wires look fine.

Sorry for the long post, any insight is appreciated, Chris.

[FL318is]

Second, the guys here will be able to troubleshoot for you. I am new to the 318is and turning a wrench. So from experience I say hang tight and these gear heads will get you running.

[Ramblin MAn]

Sounds like you knocked somthing loose. Check the crank sensor and wiring. You have a timing light? Check the pulse to each plug by looking at the light while you crank and move the pick up to each wire. Vacuum lines, vacuum lines, vacuum lines.

[ak96ss]

Welcome to the club!

First thing I would do is check for spark - sounds like it is not getting any. When you say it "makes one or two attempts to start," does that mean it is in fact cranking or that it not only cranks, it almost fires up then doesn't?

[Febi Guibo]

check the fuel pump, fuel pump relay also...

[tophertii]

guys, thanks for the advice! I can't wait to drive this car, especially now that the whole suspension has been rebuilt. My current daily driver is a 85 Mr2 that I brought back to life. It was to be my autox car. After two years it is still my daily driver, I"m eating up Azenis 615's just commuting. I haven't had the time to compete with it. I feel kinda bad loading two kids in the same front seat with the seat belt going across their necks. I needed a car that I could feel safe in with my kids and still have fun.

I rebuilt a 74 2002tii and fell in love with BWM's. Until then I had always associated BMW's with a sort of elitetist car culture, the kind that wear their cars. Ya know the difference between a BMW and a porcupine? With a BMW the prics are on the inside. After rebuilding the engine on the 02 - not knowining anything more than changing the plugs and oil - I began to really appreciate the engineering behind the cars. I lurked on various forums and began to investigate 318is's. They seemed very much the spirit of my 02. Maybe not as much power as a 325 but a great driving experience, to me the whole point.

I can't wait to get this car on the road. I'm a complete dork and just sit inside the car wondering what it will be like to drive it. It just feels right. The story behind it is more detailed that what I have said. I have taken days off work just to get it safe and running only to have the wrong parts delivered - Saturday delivery - and other problems. I need to sell the Mr2 just to fund this project. I want to do it right and eventually rebuild the engine and super charge it, I love sleepers.

To the point of the responses:
The car at times seems to want to start but I know it is not going to. Not enough right to make that happen. Even when I'm optimistic I know it wont start. I haven't thought about the fuel pump because the plugs are wet with fuel. I could be wrong but if I'm getting fuel the fuel pump is doing it's job. I don't know what systems effect spark. My butterflies are spotless as is the rest of the engine. I have found some tubes that are old and cracked but they are those that go to the valve cover and would guess are a part of the PCV system. I taped then all up and still no luck. In the research that I have done I came across the idea that that the crank position sensor may be the problem.

Anyway keep the info coming, Chris.

[dino245]

Welcome
I live in Murray and 2002maniac is in happy valley, perhaps either one of use can help.

I work at steve harris imports in down town, stop by some time. As for the problem and cars milage the car is just broken in, mine has 272000 and still pulls strong.

If your car is firing once and a while I dont think it is the crank sensor bot then again I am not looking at the car. You are correct in that if the plugs are wet with fuel it has a good fuel pump, you could hear it in the tank if you tap the starter and then listen quietly. Have you pulled a spark plug wire to see if you are getting spark? It is also not imposible to have a bad DME/ECU. If you have a bad ground connection or you have recently jumped your car you may have damaged it, not a happy thought but a posibility. Good luck

[tophertii]

dino245, I will definately stop by your work. A good reason to check out an Elise:)! Have you had any seat time and Larry's new track? Isn't 2002maniac doing some soloII in his car?

I haven't pulled a plug yet and really I can't say that it fires, closer to a back fire or nothing at all. I woke up at 4:00 am this morning going over what I could have done during the removal and install of the exhaust, drive line and suspension. They only two thoughts that I had were that I knocked/ pulled something loose when I raised the engine to get at the right side control arm ball joint nut. As I mentioned my previous post the 02 sensor did get hung up a bit.

I did not jump start the car before the problem occured. I did however jump it on my forth or fifth try. I remembered that there was a light in the trunk and that I had left the trunk open all night. I wanted to make sure I had enough power.

Any suggestion on where to look for bad grounds? I have noticed a few but is there any in particular that I should check out.

Rambin Man mentioned vacuum lines, again any where particular to begin the search.

Thanks,Chris

[bmwman91]

The most common problem with something like this is bad ignition coils. Now, being that it died pretty suddenly, something MIGHT have come loose or died (cam or crank spoition sensor). So, if you can find someone local and temporarily swap these items for their good ones one at a time you can try to figure out what the problem is. I would put $ on ignition coils myself.

Also, you may want to replace the plug wires. They go bad and rob power. You can also do a COP conversion that eliminates the wires completely and frees up some room under the hood.
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=965

Since you have all sorts of stuff planned, check through:
http://www.e30tuner.com/rebuild/
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/

Welcome to the club!

[bmwman91]

dino245, I will definately stop by your work. A good reason to check out an Elise:)! Have you had any seat time and Larry's new track? Isn't 2002maniac doing some soloII in his car?

I haven't pulled a plug yet and really I can't say that it fires, closer to a back fire or nothing at all. I woke up at 4:00 am this morning going over what I could have done during the removal and install of the exhaust, drive line and suspension. They only two thoughts that I had were that I knocked/ pulled something loose when I raised the engine to get at the right side control arm ball joint nut. As I mentioned my previous post the 02 sensor did get hung up a bit.

I did not jump start the car before the problem occured. I did however jump it on my forth or fifth try. I remembered that there was a light in the trunk and that I had left the trunk open all night. I wanted to make sure I had enough power.

Any suggestion on where to look for bad grounds? I have noticed a few but is there any in particular that I should check out.

Rambin Man mentioned vacuum lines, again any where particular to begin the search.

Thanks,Chris
The engine SHOULD start, even with a major vacuum leak. It will run reasonably well without the O2 sensor. Basically, the ONLY missing inputs that will stop it from running are the crank & cam sensors. It can go without any of the other input mechanisms...the computer just goes into "limp home" mode, running super rich and retarding the ignition timing. Now, if more than one of the other inputs are toasted (well throttle potentiometer and air flow meter both) you could have problem.

You can test the cam/crank sensors with a digital multimeter. You should see 450-650Ohm between the 2 ends of the wound inductor. There are 3 contacts...2 are the windings and one is the wire's shielding. I guess find the 2 that have continuity and make sure the resistance is in the range specified. Post up what you find. And if you are unable to find continuity between ANY contacts, then I guess you just found one of your problems.
They plug into the sub-harness below the intake manifold...the big black box thingy with all the wires going into it. They are the 2 connectors plugging into the front if it, and can be a pain to remove. Just squeeze the wire retainer HARD and pull HARD. Best of luck.

[tophertii]

Thanks bmwman91, good info. You answered a big question for me which was "what components control spark?" I can handle the mechanical side of things pretty well but I still have a steep learning curve ahead of me related to the electical side of things, it is the one area that still intimidates me, well that and rebuilding a transmission or a diff.

I did some research last night on the location of the cam and crank position units and were they plug into the harness. I will get my muti out and check them.

Thanks again guys

[tophertii]

So after some probing with a multimeter heres what I have:

Cam position sending unit 1320 ohms
Crank position sending unit 532

Coils
cylinder ohm voltage at connection
1 1.2 11.94
2 1.2 11.94
3 1.1 11.91
4 1.4 11.95

In my rearch yesterday I found that the resistence for the coils should be .4 to .8 ohms. With my numbers as high as they are should I consider my coils bad? Come to think of it and to help my general understanding. Do you expect higher or lower resistance numbers when a parts is bad or does it depend on the part?

I checked to see if I had spark at the plug wire last night, nope.

Any insight of what to do or look at next?

Thanks

[romkasponka]

1-3 pin 0,4-0,8Ohm. Wrong pin?

[tophertii]

romkassponka I'm not sure what you are saying or asking? Are you saying the 1 and 3 or rather 1 and 15 are the wrong pins. All the research I did yesterday, hours worth, said to check the resistance at 1 and 15. Both the female connector and the male plug are labeled this way. To get the voltage I used pin 4a and 15 on the harness plug.

[romkasponka]

You can measure directly on coil. There you can find numbers too..

Critical sensors are: crankshaft position and afm . Check these first, my engine started even with 3 working coils..

From autodata
Engine not start.
Check component sequence.

Imobilizer
Inertia fuel shut-off switch - if fitted.
Electrical connections - engine/battery.
Fuses/fuel pump relay/engine control relay.
Ignition system.
Crankshaft position sensor.
Condition of fuel filter.
And all connections..

[tophertii]

The resistance numbers are directly off of the coils. With the numbers that I posted would you say they are toast or still working.

Engine control relay is that the same as the main relay next to the fuel pump relay?

What about the ohm reading for the cam position sensor, would you say it's is bad?

[tophertii]

I can search this tonight at home but I would really like to sort as much as I can out today. How do you check the AFM?

thanks

[romkasponka]

get autodata 2005.
Check this out http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=964&highlight=manual

[tophertii]

thanks romkasponka