Author Topic: Suspension critique? Billy sport, vogtland, cabby sway? (Read 10350 times)

nomad · « **on:** June 23, 2008, 12:30:03 PM »

I'm trying to make this car handle a little better for autocross use (occasional daily) and to make it more fun. I'd like to hear some suggestions on the direction I'm going. Small budget of course.

I have Billy sport front shock inserts and offset front CABs ready to go, and should be picking up some used vogtland springs soon. I plan on finding a front cabby sway and a rear M3 sway. I currently have stock basketweaves but plan on finding some 15x7 to use with 205/50/15 Azenis that I have in the garage.

This seems like an ok starting point as I can't seem to afford IE3 or H&R Race springs for a good price. I was wondering about cosmo coilovers but decided I'd like to be able to go back to stock if needed.

I'm also thinking of getting new balljoints pressed in locally and getting new upper shock mounts and rear trailing arm mounts. I'm sure I need new rear shocks so I was thinking of getting KYB till I find some billy sports.

Any suggestions? recommendations? Oil pan warnings?

nomad · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:33:34 AM »

Should I get the eccentric rear trailing arm bushings for a few $ more? Or is that a waste for what I'm doing?

nickmpower · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2008, 11:19:04 AM »

what ever bushings you are getting get them from akg. and eccentric would be very nice. Vogtland springs aver very low and i hear pretty soft. You might want to wait for some ie stage 3s. I have a set of vogtlands new in box if you need them.

glad to see you decided to keep your car

rhogg · « **Reply #3 on:** June 27, 2008, 09:33:56 AM »

I went the standard Billy/HR sport/ ST Sway route and am very happy. I refreshed with all new bushings and in hindsight should have used the eccentric RTA bushings. It was a bigger job than I expectied but this was due to doing the subframe bushings. Springs and shocks were easy. The sways pretty easy as the subframe was out.

The change in ride quality is excellent although I was coming from a stock 318i suspension.

nomad · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2008, 02:55:09 PM »

Just picked up some Bilein rear shocks from the JY today. Woohoo!
I think they are the HD ones but should work fine for a little while at least.

318kid · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2008, 06:39:48 PM »

I would go with IE3's or H&R Race. The Vogtlands are (F)225---(R)360 Stock is around (F)118---(R)265, where as IE3's are (F)315---(R)570 and they are about the same drop rate. If you do go with Vogtlands just be more careful with potholes and anything that can make you car "Dip" down. Overall that looks like a pretty good setup, although I've never been in anything other than stock. I'm sure you'll be happy with it if you go that route.

nomad · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2008, 07:47:43 PM »

I may install it all with all the spring pads in place and then judge where I want to go from there. I'd love to be able to test out a bunch of different options before settling, but we'll see how it goes.

1991318is · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2008, 03:46:35 AM »

Quote from: nomad;52210

I may install it all with all the spring pads in place and then judge where I want to go from there. I'd love to be able to test out a bunch of different options before settling, but we'll see how it goes.

I would seriously recommend Ireland Stage 3's. Their an awesome spring and aren't a progressive spring like the H&R Race's which means that their firm from the start and don't have the softness to begin with. Better for Autox applications. I would save up and go GC coilovers and avoid cosmo. I thought about it also but saw that their rates are soft but talked w/ someone who had them and they said they were really firm, therefore I don't trust their numbers and don't think that the springs are any quality. Good call on testing first w/ all spring pads in. Set a benchmark altho it won't have a difference really on anything except aesthetics to have the pads in or not.

nomad · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2008, 08:34:57 AM »

yeah, for spring pads i was referring to the "danger zone" of the oil pan. If I ever see a deal for IE3 I'll try to jump on it, right now they are too expensive for my little budget.
Once I sell the wheels from my other car maybe I'll have some $

nomad · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:39:44 AM »

I ended up getting the eccentric RTABs
So should I be able to install and align these myself or should a regular alignment shop do it better? I'm willing to give it a shot and want to set my front toe myself.

rhogg · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2008, 11:32:01 AM »

Alignment cost me $100 - not much to be sure of what you have but too much given the minimal adjustments they can make.

You need to realize that we are talking amount very fine measurements having a pretty big impact, so for $100 or less its worth it in my opinion.

gearheadE30 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2008, 09:03:48 PM »

Definitely get a professional alignment, and be sure to tell them what mods you've done. If you can find a BMW shop or a track-setup shop, that would be the way to go.

BTW IE3 and H&R races are exactly the same, but the IE3's tend to have a bit of positive rake. From a performace standpoint this is fine, but it looks funney to have the front of the car slightly higher than the rear. Races are a bit lower at the front.

What class do you autocross in? If you're in STS (that's what I'm in, so this is all STS-legal) I'd save some money up and get some GC coilovers. You can get the adusters and custom rate springs for $400 and get them welded on the front struts. The rears require no welding. This means you get adjustable spring rates (a pair of springs is around $50, they are availiable all over the place) for track or street, as well as adjustable ride height. Races, IE3s, and Vogtlands are all very low, and Vogtlands are too soft for their ride height. For some reason, the GC kit seems to ride smoother, is significantly more predictable, and almost negates the need for swaybars. The progressive rate springs are only as stiff as their rate in the last inch of travel, so they are still very soft for autocross use.

I'm also on a very tight budget, and this is the most cost-effective way to get a good, adjustable suspension that I have seen. Of course, this is all my personal preference

nickmpower · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2008, 10:26:23 PM »

dont install the bushings till you do all your other suspension work, that way you can get it all aligned at the same time

nomad · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:35:52 AM »

I think I may swap out the shocks now (so it rides better) and save for some adjustable height coilover parts.

I "know" that I need to do everything right the first time (learned this years ago) but I'm so tempted to cheap out just to get "anything". The adjustable height stiffer GC setup is where I truly want to be. It's always more cost effective to do it once!

I'm going to research some of the circle track swap meets for adjustable collars and hardware. I may be able to put together an adjustable setup for much cheaper than $400.

gearheadE30 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:52:31 AM »

Well, cosmo coilovers are only $200, but I really can't say too much about the quality. IE also has adjusters for 130 front and 120 rear iirc, but I don't know about the quality there, either.