Author Topic: Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp  (Read 84855 times)

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2007, 04:57:38 PM »
Received the 1995 season E36 Supertouring documentation few days ago, a real treasure trove!

It has everything that is different from roadgoing E36, I mean everything. All parts are shown on assembly diagrams, sometimes even three sided engineering drawings. Complete parts lists with descriptions. Tightening torques and even temperatures to which you should heat up the cylinderhead when fitting valve guides and valve seats! All clearances between parts. How much pistons can vary in weight (2 grams). Intake port dimensions. Btw there is no vibration damper fitted :)

I think I will find out how much it would cost to get hydro -> mehcanical conversion parts made for stock tappets, need to open one tappet first.

Also ordered one set of E30 M42 dual valve springs and lower and upper valve plates to see if they fit E36 M42 and how much stiffer that setup is.

ispierrot

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2007, 03:53:39 PM »
Received the 1995 season E36 Supertouring documentation few days ago, a real treasure trove!

Hello

You will share this treasure? Or what can we obtain it?

Thanks

bmwman91

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2007, 05:51:50 PM »
Sooo...where might we be able to get copies of this documentation?

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
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EdCrab!

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2007, 11:01:03 PM »
Yes, information for all! Google gives me no relevant results:confused:

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2007, 03:29:33 AM »
I am not sure what is the status of the documents in copyright wise. I think they are owned by BMW Motorsport International, not sure. But I think I can take photos of some interesting pages and share them here without consequences.

Most interesting stuff for E30 folks must be the engine so I will concentrate on that. When I have time I will take photos of the pages and set up a new thread somewhere on this forum :)

Mister V

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2007, 08:00:33 AM »
possible intake?

http://www.dbilas-dynamic.de/dbilas_eng/index.htm

german tuner mainly specified to air intakes

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2007, 03:40:16 PM »
I think I will build airbox from glassfiber when the time comes...

In the meantime, just got 3.45 LSD from ebay to replace my open diff :cool:

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2007, 11:43:28 AM »
Some news at last!

Got E30 M42 double springs and spring plates to see if they fit E36 M42. I would say they will fit :)

This seems to be workable combination:

Outer spring lower plate - E30 M42
Inner spring lower plate - E30 M42
Upper spring plate - E36 M42
Inner spring - E30 M42
Outer spring  - E36 M42 (or E30, read on...)

I will try to measure valve spring rates for all springs I hve right now. Then I can calculate valve open and seat pressures with different combinations.

I thought E30 outer spring and E36 spring would be identical but not so... E30 spring is slightly taller and softer. So E36 spring and E30 inner spring should provide quite much stiffer setup that also resist spring surge better.

Catcams site listed M42 (no idea which version) to have seat pressure of around 40 kg and open pressure of 90 kg. Let's see if my spring rate measurements tomorrow agree with that.

I also sacrificed one hydraulic lifter (sorry buddy...) from my spare head to see what is the structure of the lifter and how easily it could be converted to solid operation.

First of all, it was quite impossible to remove the hydraulic core from the lifter by using pliers. Next we (me + my brother) tried compressed air fed trough the oil hole but no joy. Then we tried drilling a hole to hydraulic core but it is hardened tool steel ie. very very hard.

As last resort we put the poor little lifter to a vice... It took only few turns to hear sound of steel breaking up, it was almost like glass. Then we could see what was inside the lifter.

There is a small locking ring holding the hydraulic core in lifter. It seems possible to force the core out of lifter by using lots of hydraulic pressure fed trough the oil feed hole. Weight saving from replacing hydraulic core with solid seems almost useless in itself but I soon realized that the true weight saving comes from not having oil inside the lifter :eek:

I will have to measure (or calculate) the volume and hence mass oil causes to be added to the lifter but I can quite safely say it is significant. If empty lifter is around 70 grams, oil could add another 20-30 grams. But as soon as I know, I will let you know.

And when I know the mass reduction made possible by solid lifter conversion, I can calculate what kind of valve spring rates I need to be able to rev as high as I want :)

Hopefully more lifter and spring stuff tomorrow with few photos and measurement results :o

JiXer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2007, 06:33:10 PM »
updates?

gearheadE30

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2007, 09:04:01 PM »
....and pics of that S42 stuff ? ;)

1991 318is Turbo
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Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2007, 04:06:49 AM »
Well, lots of reading an planning going on regarding the engine mods. Also received the 3.45 LSD which I opened yesterday to verify that it is really LSD, which it was. Too bad one of the two support arms of diff back cover was damaged during shipping and I need to find a replacement. I hope to install the LSD around christmas to see if it makes any difference in ice and snow.

Not quite sure what I want to do first. I hope to compete in our BMW clubs sprint race in which we have 3 classes for road cars. My car is in lowest power/weight category right now and I can increase power to around 160 hp until I'm forced to upper class with E36 325i's etc. To be at the upper limit of that class I need around 190 hp.

So basically I should choose to do few easy mods like chip and ITB's to reach 160 hp or bite the bullet and do everything at the same time.

I tried to attach photos of spring rate measurements sometime ago to my post but it did not work for some reason (size and format should have been ok) so I haven't tried to attach photos of S42 stuff either. Maybe I will try again in hope that it was just a temporary glitch :)

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2008, 04:24:55 AM »
1st update for 2008!

Stock 3.45 LSD has been installed:



And ITB setup work has started:





And also the adapter:



By the way, tim_s was right about something :eek: those ITB's are indeed 50 mm in diameter, not 48 mm as I remembered. Good thing I did not bet with him!

Adapter is made from 2 x 10 mm aluminum plates bolted together. Intake port holes were done mostly by 8 mm drill, we tried smaller and larger but they were slower. Holes have now been filed smoother and once I can put the adapter to head and ITB's I will sand the ports to correct shape. Thin gasket made by gasket paper goes between the plates, I think I use original M42 gasket between adapter plate and cylinder head and original S50 O rings between adapter and ITB's.

Fuel rail and injector control rail come from M42, they seem to be perfect fit as they are. I however need to remove two supports from fuel rail, they block atleast one vacuum rail hole.

Vacuum/idle rail comes from S50. It needs to be cut from two places (to get rid of useless middle ITB for M42) and then welded together again. Also air feed pipe needs to be cut out from the discarded part and put back in shortened rail.

I think airbox will be made out of glassfiber, I got a book about competition car composites as christmas present and I'm studying it now. Then I need some intake runners with bellmouths too, possible made from glassfiber too.

I don't think I will use stock (or even the larger E36 M3) filter housing due space restrictions. One idea is to put a largest possible BMW OEM panel filter (I'm not too keen on cone filters...) in front part of airbox in similar manner it has been done on E46 M3 CSL. That solution provides large surface area filter for adequate airflow but might slightly affect airbox tuning. Also, air metering thingamajik (whatever it will be in the end) needs to be BEFORE filter, perhaps causing problems with dust etc.

M40 flywheel and spare set of M42 cams are ready to be sent for machining, hope to get them done soon :)

Much pondering going on what needs to be done before track season starts, there's 3,5 months to go in Finland. As said earlier, I need to think about the power I'm going to get due sprint class limits. It's either around 155 hp or 195 hp I need to be with current weight.

Almost 155 hp can be had with a good chip and 98 octane fuel alone, I'm sure ITB's alone on top of that would bumb me out of snail pace class... Then I would be in the same class as E36 325' and 328's!

Then the question is how much I could get with ITB's, solid lifter conversion, 260-270 degree and 10,5 mm lift regrind cams and a chip that is designed to work with 256 degree Shrick cams.

Shrick cams + chip is often quoted to give about 160-165 hp but that is well short from 195 hp goal. ITB's might give some help as would higher rev limit due solid lifters but I am not sure how much.

Interesting things to ponder :)

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2008, 04:40:29 AM »
And oh yes, I found the reason for sometimes quite violent shaking of engine/car when driving slowly and letting the clutch slip:



One of the two engine mounts had been completely broken up! Engine was lying some 3-4 cm to the right. No wonder 3rd gear sometimes popped out while braking or what caused the juddering noise while cornering hard to the left...

New mounting parts for engine and transmission have been ordered already :)

koyota

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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2008, 09:23:20 AM »
Hi Boyracer, are they any updates on your project. I am about to take a slightly different way with the M47 crank, but the headwork should be something like yours. Can you post pictures of the changes in the head(before, after pic if available) please!

Boyracer

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Buildup: My quest for NA 180 hp
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2008, 09:45:40 AM »
Well, some progress has been made... ITB's have been connected to the cylinderhead with adapter for the first time but bit more work is needed to fit new bolts. Then I will shape the ITB and cylinder head ports to match the adapter.

Also bought clutch and pressureplate, need those before I sent the flywheel to be lightened, the whole assembly needs to be balanced together to get best results.

I also bought some air powered grinding tools so in theory I could perform some of the porting work by myself, removing the casting imperfections and perhaps removing avlve guide bosses. Valve seasts still require professionals.

And finally, the engine mounting rubbers were swapped, both were completely ripped apart! Engine was only held in place with coolant etc pipes and two rubber mountings at the back of the gearbox. Car feels now much more quieter :)

I did also meet local guy who has two 318is Class II cars. One is daily transport and the another seems to be transformed to endurance racing car. There are plenty of work on the engine that is common for my project and his racing car so I might benefit from his knowledge of local machine shops etc which I don't have.