Author Topic: Tips for Improving Mileage, Most of Which Simple  (Read 36220 times)

Alpine003

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Tips for Improving Mileage, Most of Which Simple
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2007, 12:14:10 PM »

shutter

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« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2007, 12:50:38 PM »
Do those actually work? :p

Sounds like the magnet craze a few years back, where wearing magnets would supposedly better ground you to the earth's magnetic field and cure everything wrong with you or some shit!
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bmwman91

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Tips for Improving Mileage, Most of Which Simple
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2007, 01:14:19 PM »
LOL!  e m b e d e d ion valve stem caps.  That's pretty good.

By low I mean shifting below 3000RPM, or maybe 3500 in first gear.

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D. Clay

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Aero and mechanical drag.
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2007, 05:18:09 PM »
I've heard that at 55 MPH a car is at the point of 50% aero drag and 50% inertia. Above that the aero part increases to where you need another 100 HP to go from 190 to 195 MPH. The importance of aero is why all of the world's sedans have basically the same shape these days. Sloping nose and high deck lid. (that's the deal with the deck lid on an E30 M3) The shape of things like mirrors, headlights, glass to metal transitions, and the underside of the car gets more significant. The E30 is at the end of an era and the E36 at the start of another.
When we had a maroon Accord, my wife was all the time trying to put her key in the door of Camry's and Mazda's in the supermarket lot.  A 318is is a truly unique car these days. Sometimes I see late model 3 series owners looking at it and I wonder are they asking themselves, "Why does mine look like a Mitsubishi Galant?"
The fuel economy comes with the territory. There is one area that makes me curious though. The energy to generate electricity versus the energy of directly driving pumps to move oil, coolant, etc. Electrical pumps can be controlled based on a lot more parameters than just RPM.

bmwman91

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« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2007, 09:12:47 PM »
I too have thought about potential mileage gains from switching to electric pumps.

In the end, I think that directly driven pumps are still the best.  As engine speed increases, oil pressure and coolant flow rate must increase.  This requires more work by a pump.  By being belt-driven, you only have the friction from the belt itself, the bearings on the input shafts and the fluid resistances.  With an electric motor, you have the losses from the mechanical work/electricity conversion in the alternator, the electricity/mechanical work losses in the drive motor, input shaft bearings and the same fluid resistance.  These accessory motors would be DC motors most likely, and those are pretty low in the electric motor efficiency pecking order.

Now I could always be wrong.  I have no numbers ot back anything up, and technology has changed a lot in these regards.  It might very well be possible to "underdrive" the fluid pumps based upon throttle position AND engine speed.  Coolant could flow a lot more slowly at 35% throttle and 4000RPM than 100% throttle and 4000RPM.  In that regard I think I DO see a potential benefit in cruising conditions.

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Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

oldtimer

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« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2007, 07:10:59 AM »
This is an added reason why I kept my 1984/85 318i and now my 1991 318is.  The 84 and 85 gets 35 mpg on the highway and 30 mpg around town while still averaging 75-80mph on the highway.  Of course I've had the 84 since new and I religiously make sure the fuel system is clean by cleaning them through rail every 5-7k.  The sythetic lubricant in every system: tranny and diff. helps and shooting some "Seafoam" the same time I clean the injectors is a major benefit.

Ben

b318isp

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Tips for Improving Mileage, Most of Which Simple
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2007, 07:47:02 AM »
Quote from: D. Clay;25362
I've heard that at 55 MPH a car is at the point of 50% aero drag and 50% inertia.


Inertia is only a factor when you accelerate. At 55mph the engine is overcoming drag, internal friction (e.g. transmission losses) and external friction (e.g. tyres on the road). It would be better to say that inertia plays more of role as you are accelerating at low speeds and drag is more of a factor in accelerating at higher speeds.

Interesting, a 200bhp/2ton car and a 100bhp/1ton car (e.g. both 100bhp per ton power to weight ratio) will accelerate differently. The lighter car will accelerate better from a stop (less inertia), but the bigger car will accelerate better at high speed (due to its better power to drag ratio).
 
Quote
The fuel economy comes with the territory. There is one area that makes me curious though. The energy to generate electricity versus the energy of directly driving pumps to move oil, coolant, etc. Electrical pumps can be controlled based on a lot more parameters than just RPM.


Very true but also remember that the coolant system flow rate is also regulated by the thermostat - the more closed it is, the less power is drawn by the pump. Similar for the power steering and ABS pumps (but parasitic drag is more an issue). Ditto an alternator - its resistance is dictated by the current demanded by the car.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 07:49:51 AM by b318isp »

D. Clay

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« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2007, 02:33:20 PM »
Inertia may have been the wrong term. There is a component in maintaining a constant speed, as opposed to acceleration, that is not aerodynamic: http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/06-Speed.html One of my goals in life is to fully comprehend that stuff Isaac Newton laid down around 1700.
Some cars have a rack with a bypass that eliminates the power assist after a certain speed. The pump continues to recirculate the PS fluid. You could put an A/C compressor type clutch on the pulley as maybe one saving. Carbon fiber driveshafts and CV joints? How much does gas have to cost to make these worthwhile. One example of the movement in that direction is that this thread would not have existed in a BMW forum in the past.

sheepdog

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« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2007, 12:06:46 AM »
Quote from: bmwman91;25358
LOL!  e m b e d e d ion valve stem caps.  That's pretty good.

By low I mean shifting below 3000RPM, or maybe 3500 in first gear.


You do know the manual does not recommend that right?

For X number of minutes below 3000 or 3500 rpm, you need to spend X number of minutes at highways speeds (sorry manual is out in the car, check for specifics).
"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy." --Dave Berry

b318isp

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« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2007, 07:43:32 AM »
Quote from: D. Clay;25401
Inertia may have been the wrong term. There is a component in maintaining a constant speed, as opposed to acceleration, that is not aerodynamic: http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/06-Speed.html .


That article references resistance, which is the forces I mentioned above. In physics there is also the equation P = mv, or power = mass muliplied by velocity which you might be thinking of.

Quote from: D. Clay;25401
One of my goals in life is to fully comprehend that stuff Isaac Newton laid down around 1700.


Most of it is straight forward, but some of it can be complex. I find it interesting!

christophbmw

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« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2007, 11:29:57 AM »
Quote from: D. Clay;25362
I've heard that at 55 MPH a car is at the point of 50% aero drag and 50% inertia. Above that the aero part increases to where you need another 100 HP to go from 190 to 195 MPH.


very true, kindof like how the new bugatti veyron uses 270hp of its 1001hp engine to get to 170mph, but from 170mph to 250mph it requires the other 731hp.

Anyways here are my latest observations: when i drove to bimmerfest last week i filled up in my home town right off the freeway, i then drove 211 miles  (70-80mph) being very conservative and i didnt hit any traffic. when i filled up i had to put in 7.06 gallons of fuel......you do the math that is approx 29.9 mpg, this is the best fuel milage i have ever calculated. however from salinas to santa barbera i only got about 27.....which is still good. i usaully average 25mpg daily driving. my question is: how do you guys get over 30 mpg? my car is just a baby (185K) i rebuilt the motor 30K ago, i use 91 octane, im running a 4.10 diffrential, heck, the owners manual along with many other publication state that the car only gets 28 mpg. are you guys driving only 55mph? how do you do it?!
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Alpine003

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« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2007, 12:24:36 PM »
Quote from: christophbmw;25469
how do you guys get over 30 mpg? my car is just a baby (185K) i rebuilt the motor 30K ago, i use 91 octane, im running a 4.10 diffrential, heck, the owners manual along with many other publication state that the car only gets 28 mpg. are you guys driving only 55mph? how do you do it?!


Yeah, I wonder about this too sometimes. I think it could be some or all of these factors: Factory wheels/tires(either stock or taller and skinnier), lack of f/r "IS" spoilers, synthetic fluids, great condition ignition system(coils,wires,plugs), great condition charging system(alt, batt, wiring), new air filter, good condition rear diff/axles/hubs, properly mounted rear muffler, good condition cat converter.

Some of these items can be very miniscule in effect but nontheless, still valid. While other items can be hard to diagnose because they don't necessarily break right off the bat but merely just wear down gradually, like coils or a cat converter.

I seemed to notice guys in non-snow states seem to be fairing better in mileage. This leads me to believe that possibly some grounding points can be partially corroded not giving maximum electrical contact, thereby possibly offsetting any values sent back to the ecu or not making the charging system as efficient.

Those stupid grounding kits you see sold for all the cars might actually be the most beneficial on our cars. I'm going to be designing my own and see if it makes any difference in mileage.

christophbmw

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« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2007, 03:20:21 PM »
Quote from: Alpine003;25477
Yeah, I wonder about this too sometimes. I think it could be some or all of these factors: Factory wheels/tires(either stock or taller and skinnier), lack of f/r "IS" spoilers, synthetic fluids, great condition ignition system(coils,wires,plugs), great condition charging system(alt, batt, wiring), new air filter, good condition rear diff/axles/hubs, properly mounted rear muffler, good condition cat converter.

Some of these items can be very miniscule in effect but nontheless, still valid. While other items can be hard to diagnose because they don't necessarily break right off the bat but merely just wear down gradually, like coils or a cat converter.

I seemed to notice guys in non-snow states seem to be fairing better in mileage. This leads me to believe that possibly some grounding points can be partially corroded not giving maximum electrical contact, thereby possibly offsetting any values sent back to the ecu or not making the charging system as efficient.

Those stupid grounding kits you see sold for all the cars might actually be the most beneficial on our cars. I'm going to be designing my own and see if it makes any difference in mileage.


My car IS in great condition, rebuilt motor, new rear muffler everthing works excellent, new filters, plugs .....and all the other stuff you said. but i still cant get over 30mpg, im not boasting or anything here but i am an aeronatical engineering major and i know a thing or to about inertia, aerodynamics, heat transfer etc....i havent really done the math but just by think about what i know, it is not feasible to get 35+mpg in our cars with the factory wheels and diff. by the way im also running 15" wheels with 205/55-15 tires which "should" help freeway gas milage, im running a tire that is also 1 pound lighter than the stock tires assuming most of you are running 195/65-14's in a decent tire.

also, on your not to the snow state guys, cold air will make your motor run slightly better, its more dense. but it also creates more drag....unless, you live at a higher altitude, then you will have air that is very "aerodynamic". with all this said you will actually see better gas milage at sea level, even though the air is more dense and harder to push a object through. i can explain it better if you guys dont understand, im not to good with words, when explaining this stuff.

one more thing: those magnets and thicker ground cables will not do anything to improve gas milage, if magnets are so good for the car they would have done this at the factory, and if the cable on our car is not "big enough" (as the ebay scammers say) then BMW would have put a bigger cable on there at the factory also. in all these years BMW's have gotten more and more gadgets and, believe me, the ground cables are still the same size. Save yourself some money and dont buy that ebay crap, a big ground cable will only help if you have a larger stereo.:)
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bmwman91

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« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2007, 05:52:54 PM »
The condition of the O2 sensor is a HUGE factor.  It fully determines the short- and long-term fuel trim settings.

I always get crappier mileage on my drives to Santa Barbara because of the mountains i have to pass through.  They really kill it.  I take 101, and it is a LOT better than 5, for sure.

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Alpine003

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« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2007, 11:36:00 PM »
Quote from: christophbmw;25494

one more thing: those magnets and thicker ground cables will not do anything to improve gas milage, if magnets are so good for the car they would have done this at the factory, and if the cable on our car is not "big enough" (as the ebay scammers say) then BMW would have put a bigger cable on there at the factory also. in all these years BMW's have gotten more and more gadgets and, believe me, the ground cables are still the same size. Save yourself some money and dont buy that ebay crap, a big ground cable will only help if you have a larger stereo.:)


I'm not talking about the gauge of the wires but the actual efficiency of the ground connections as they tend to corrode or not conduct as well over time. Rather than tracing every single factory ground back to it's attachment point, new grounding cables can be run to strategic points to maximize efficient transfer.

As for BMW doing things, car companies are out there to make money so they won't do what's necessarily the best but will do just enough to get away with it imo. I believe there are very few cars where short cuts aren't taken, one of them being the Mclaren F1 where the profit margins are reported to be practically non existent based on the volume of cars sold vs. the amt of R&D work and materials.

If you look at all the oxygen free multistranded cabling these days, they are a lot more advanced than wiring from the 80's. Both might conduct the same but given time and corrosion, the newer stuff is able to withstand those conditions better and give a better conductivity.

Just take a high quality Fluke Multimeter or equivalent and measure some old corroded vs. new. You'll see what I mean.