Author Topic: So who bought a Miller MAF kit?  (Read 22187 times)

viper3812

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2007, 08:44:12 PM »
I just asked for my refund, oh well. The money will now be going towards my 329ti project.

r0ckrat

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2007, 01:07:21 PM »
Just got an email from Brody - they are in CA testing and tidying the software up... Here's the bulk:

Quote
We are In California right now finishing the software. We have been working all weekend on it and will continue to do so this week. When we return home Sunday we will be ready to start shipping out the kits that week.

I'm looking forward to placing an order for the finished product. Missed the presale by a couple days. :(
« Last Edit: May 28, 2007, 01:08:17 PM by r0ckrat »

1991 318iS Brilliantrot w Schwartz Vinyl & Sheepskins

kowalski

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2007, 03:13:49 PM »
Quote from: Alpine003;25905
I find it ironic that people have put money down already on this and it's over a month late while the pm is going to be going on vacation. :rolleyes:


yeah i thought that was interesting too, however it worked out he ended up going on vacation with a 318is, and installing the system on it. they worked out the bugs on his trip and now its supposedly ready for sale.
Sale:
EBC Green stuff pads = $60 shipped front and rear set available


Send $ to: kroeker.michael @ gmail.com

Fore Sale Thread

viper3812

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2007, 07:00:38 PM »
Just got an e-mail from Miller. The M42 MAF Project has come to an end.

Miller Performance Ltd.
2001 Abbotsford Way
Abbotsford, BC
V2S 6Y5
Release May 29, 2007:

Dear Valued Customers,

Due to unforeseen complications with the M42 Mass air flow (MAF) conversion, Miller
Performance is deeply sorry to announce that M42 MAF Development will come to an
end. It is no longer profitable to pursue this MAF system. Unlike Miller Performance’s
other MAF system, the M42 will not be able to use the components that are normally
used in the generation of these systems. As well, the Air Flow Meter (AFM) is very
different from any other AFM Miller Performance has studied. The complications that
have risen from the M42 System make it impossible at this point in time to release a
product that holds to Miller Performance’s high standards. There were drivability issues
that surfaced over time as the ECU adapted. With over $6000 invested into the
development, Miller Performance has stated that it is too costly to continue. It will
however, in the future, reopen the research as there is a solution. But, because this
solution will take more time to develop, we can no longer keep our pre-release customers
waiting. We will be issuing FULL refunds to all who pre-purchased their M42 MAF
system.
Again, Miller Performance apologizes for any disappointment and we hope you
understand.

Miller Performance Staff – Public Relations
CC: Daniel J. Miller – President
CC: R. Brody Saari – Vice President

viper3812

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bmwman91

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2007, 07:43:57 PM »
Quote from: Jtuner;25977
Its really a big deal to do this,, like I said, it's taking a potentiometer reading and converting it in to a thermister reading..
AFMs measure air intake flow basically (and this is a very basic statement) but basically on a 1-100 type scale (i'm sure the actual numbers are very different..) A thermister measures temperature, and depending on the car and whichever other inputs there are, it reads the amount of airflow depending on temperature..
Now, in order to accomplish this, one must make a program (more specifically a series of algorithms) that will tell the computer "IF",,, "THEN".... I'm sure they have the programming done, or i would hope they do,, but working out the bugs on this type of system i would imagine could take years.. There was another m42 member that was looking in to this at one point and I believe he must have given up on it.. There's no real gains,,, maybe better throttle response, but that's about it.......
All in all, I really wouldn't expect this project to be done anytime soon.. they certainly shouldn't have taken pre-orders yet.. Good luck to all who have ordered it!! I hope you preordered for reasons that you've done research on, and not just because it's "cool", so someone TOLD you you'd get a shit ton of horsepower and torque... I think if you haven't done your homework, you're gonna be seriously dissappointed with the results... that's my .02 anyway......
While the differences between the sensors are great, the conversion is not all that difficult.  If you have access to a flow-bench, accurate temperature meter, and a digital multimeter, you can get all the data you need to deal with the 2.  Don't forget the all-important ideal gas law either.

I built my own MAF converter from scratch using a PIC microcontroller, a DAC and some other basic passive components to filter the signal.  So far, I have about 10 months and 6000 miles on it, with no "hiccups."  They took a different route, reprogramming the ECU.  That is a LOT more work, but also necesary if you want to claim power gains.  I will say it again...converting toa MAF will not give the M42 ANY more power.  What their kit was was a MAF, combined with a performance chip.  You would see the same dyno gains with JUST a Conforti chip.

MAF's DO improve throttle response and idle behavior.  They also eliminate some odd transient effects saving marginal amounts of gas upon acceleration.  I feel that these things were worth the trouble, but I am also a big nerd that loves this stuff.  If I had to guess about the "driveability" issues thay were mentioning, I would venture to guess that they involve intake resonance.  With the M42 having no intake overlap, and the MAF being extremely fast and sensitive, each intake pulse can be resolved.  Between 2500-3000RPM, the intake system resonates badly, and without some digital and analog compensation, you get fuel cut.  See the link below for why that is.  For those in the know, it has to do with aliasing issues and the Motronic sampling below the required Nyquist frequency of the air flow/measurement system.
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/articles_mafcon.php

For a rough primer on sampling signals and whatnot, check this out:
http://www.e30tuner.com/projects/aliasing.pdf


Quote from: viper3812;26802
Just got an e-mail from Miller. The M42 MAF Project has come to an end.

Miller Performance Ltd.
2001 Abbotsford Way
Abbotsford, BC
V2S 6Y5
Release May 29, 2007:

Dear Valued Customers,

Due to unforeseen complications with the M42 Mass air flow (MAF) conversion, Miller
Performance is deeply sorry to announce that M42 MAF Development will come to an
end. It is no longer profitable to pursue this MAF system. Unlike Miller Performance’s
other MAF system, the M42 will not be able to use the components that are normally
used in the generation of these systems. As well, the Air Flow Meter (AFM) is very
different from any other AFM Miller Performance has studied. The complications that
have risen from the M42 System make it impossible at this point in time to release a
product that holds to Miller Performance’s high standards. There were drivability issues
that surfaced over time as the ECU adapted. With over $6000 invested into the
development, Miller Performance has stated that it is too costly to continue. It will
however, in the future, reopen the research as there is a solution. But, because this
solution will take more time to develop, we can no longer keep our pre-release customers
waiting. We will be issuing FULL refunds to all who pre-purchased their M42 MAF
system.
Again, Miller Performance apologizes for any disappointment and we hope you
understand.

Miller Performance Staff – Public Relations
CC: Daniel J. Miller – President
CC: R. Brody Saari – Vice President
The AFM is not different than other ones.  The voltage-flow curve is different than a non-M42 sensor, but so were the M20B27 and M20B25 ones.  They all operated in the same manner.  The M42 sounds like it is the only 4-cylinder they have really dealt with as far as a MAF conversion.  As such, it has its own set of dynamic air flow issues.  Doing this conversion with only a reprogrammed ECU chip would be a real pain without modifying any circuitry.  I suppose they could have added some filters onto the sensor body, but I never saw any on there.  Most M42'ers already have chips anyway, so this would have done nothing for power, which is what 99% of people want.  Thus, they are quite right in saying it is unprofitable.  That's why I kinda called off a production version of my unit.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 07:47:26 PM by bmwman91 »

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

dude8383

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2007, 08:33:44 PM »
Well this sucks.

I'm going to have to build my own eventually then.

I better get my refund in a timely manner :)


Alpine003

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2007, 10:57:28 PM »
Quote from: dude8383;26808
Well this sucks.
I better get my refund in a timely manner :)


I hope you all get your refunds promptly as this money is something that could've been used for something more useful. :cool: ;)

dude8383

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2007, 11:34:17 PM »
Hehe, well I'm not too crazy about the mtech2 wing, BUT I can assure you it will be spent on something else for the car.


Jtuner

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #69 on: May 30, 2007, 11:11:39 AM »
Quote from: dude8383;26828
Hehe, well I'm not too crazy about the mtech2 wing, BUT I can assure you it will be spent on something else for the car.


since you have all this extra money now, you should help me buy a set of those LS rims like ya got there :) Where'd you find those anyways? They're the friggin hawtness!!

dude8383

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« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2007, 11:31:31 AM »
Quote from: Jtuner;26853
since you have all this extra money now, you should help me buy a set of those LS rims like ya got there :) Where'd you find those anyways? They're the friggin hawtness!!


I bought em over on R3V, this guy AC Nico usually finds nice and rare sets in Germany, and ships from there.

Very stand up guy and prices are relatively reasonable!


Eurospec

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2007, 03:56:56 PM »
I can vouch for Nico too. I've dealt with him numerous times and only have positive things to say about the transactions.

On another note, what a letdown after all the hype-preorders included. Did any of you notice Mark D'Sylva's post on bf.c about the M20 MAF kit. Maybe we could persuade him into developing a kit for our cars.... just a thought.

LINK
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 04:07:04 PM by Eurospec »

bmwman91

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2007, 04:36:55 PM »
Quote from: Eurospec;26869
I can vouch for Nico too. I've dealt with him numerous times and only have positive things to say about the transactions.

On another note, what a letdown after all the hype-preorders included. Did any of you notice Mark D'Sylva's post on bf.c about the M20 MAF kit. Maybe we could persuade him into developing a kit for our cars.... just a thought.

LINK


Not to be a party wrecker or anything, but what is the point?  Dropping more than $100 on a MAF kit would leave most people dissatisfied.  Now, as far as an OEM replacement, then we are talking a fair deal.  I actually think I might market the one I designed as just that since a rebuilt AFM is close to $200 anyway.  If I get enough interest from people for one, I would do it tomorrow lol.  But, like Miller said, it is just an unprofitable endeavour at this point.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

dude8383

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2007, 10:15:47 PM »
Quote from: Eurospec;26869
I can vouch for Nico too. I've dealt with him numerous times and only have positive things to say about the transactions.

On another note, what a letdown after all the hype-preorders included. Did any of you notice Mark D'Sylva's post on bf.c about the M20 MAF kit. Maybe we could persuade him into developing a kit for our cars.... just a thought.

LINK


Yup, I did see that.

In fact, I think Sam may have spoken to Mark, and made mention of making one for our cars.

But as bmwman said above, its not exactly very profitable to make these.

Having said that, I might just do megasquirt and hook it up on my own :)


Mike 91 318ic

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So who bought a Miller MAF kit?
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2007, 09:24:04 AM »
"told ya so"

:p