170-180 bhp possible with out boost?

[D. Clay]

On a track an m42 can outperform an e30m3 and a 325iS given mismatched drivers or somewhat equal drivers. Hp and Tq don't make the car fast, it's the driver.

Only with mis-matched drivers. Otherwise, an E30M3 will smoke a 318is. Horsepower and torque do matter. A driver can maximize the potential of a car but they cannot overcome it.
I am aware of the differences in drivers - I've spent time with Formula Fords and stock cars which are basically spec series and know that lap times vary considerably with identical equipment. But it's also true that some cars are just faster than others because they have more HP, torque, bigger brakes, better suspensions, etc. It's why we're having this thread.

[b318isp]

On track I have yet to be passed by an E30 325i as I seem to have better braking, stability and cornering abilities. I cannot keep up with one in a straight line however. One slight advantage I have is better exit speed, where I can have maybe a 5mph advantage (more of the driver is not as experienced) coming onto a straight.

This can be a problem when stuck behind a slower driver as I maybe partly off throttle (or at least not at the higher speed) coming out of a corner. In a basic foot-to-the-floor drag, I cannot pass due to the better bhp-drag ratio of the bigger car.

Main point is that the 318is gets serious respect on track from lots of different cars even though it is ~17 years old and with a 1.8L engine...

[b318isp]

Oh, and on the last but one track day I did, I ran one session in Group 2 (here in Ireland that is the ~200bhp+ cars). And I wasn't passed once! There was a couple of E46 M3s in there, an E36 M3, two or three E30 M3s, E36 328i, 540i, etc. Of course, I picked my moment to join the track ;-)

[nickmpower]

I expect to have more then 180. Maybe 190 idk but i spent quite a bit. But the engine should also last another couple 100 thousand. I cant wait to see how it does against m3s

[e9nine]

On track I have yet to be passed by an E30 325i as I seem to have better braking, stability and cornering abilities. I cannot keep up with one in a straight line however. One slight advantage I have is better exit speed, where I can have maybe a 5mph advantage (more of the driver is not as experienced) coming onto a straight.

I have experienced the same. My question is; what would happen if you switched cars with the said person? If you have a good friend or someone brave enough to switch cars with, please please please try switch cars and let's see the outcome. I almost have the chance to do this in July if things go well.

Only with mis-matched drivers. Otherwise, an E30M3 will smoke a 318is. Horsepower and torque do matter. A driver can maximize the potential of a car but they cannot overcome it.
I am aware of the differences in drivers - I've spent time with Formula Fords and stock cars which are basically spec series and know that lap times vary considerably with identical equipment. But it's also true that some cars are just faster than others because they have more HP, torque, bigger brakes, better suspensions, etc. It's why we're having this thread.

I'd say it comes down to the track and the drivers. Not outright disagreeing and not agreeing with you totally.

I expect to have more then 180. Maybe 190 idk but i spent quite a bit. But the engine should also last another couple 100 thousand. I cant wait to see how it does against m3s

Don't compare your car alone to others...compare your driving skills as well to the other person. All-in-all the best driver always wins ALMOST regardless of what car they're driving within certain boundaries. A fair comparison is when you have a similar car with an almost equivalent driver to you.

For example: A friend of mine with a Lotus Elise cannot pass me @ Road ATL in my m42. If he did pass me in the straights, he would hold me up and end up having point me by again almost immediately after the straights. We had an "agreement" that he would stay behind me and we all just had fun this way last year and for a tad bit this year.

When I switched to my 325i - I had to point him by as the 325i isn't as dialed in as the 318iS suspension wise :mad:

I love discussions like this. For those of you who have never been to a track, skip some fancy mod, and pay for an HPDE session which costs between $250-400 and see where your car and your skills get you. Bring all the dyno sheets you want and talk about all the mods in the world, if you can't drive your car with it's setup, you're not maximizing your "investment" and the fruits of your labor.

[kwblah]

No doubt about it. I have 200,000 miles on my motor and will be looking at doing something about it soon. There's so much info in different places that it definitely warrants a separate thread. With 160 HP this would be such a great car.

Just curious.. is that 200k miles stock and daily driven without any major problems along the way.  Im just wondering how long these motors are able to last.

[D. Clay]

Just curious.. is that 200k miles stock and daily driven without any major problems along the way.  Im just wondering how long these motors are able to last.

The only modification is the COP conversion. The car has 200,000 miles on it and the engine has had the valve cover off twice. Once for a gasket and once for painting.  It has never had any work done on it internally. Last fall I pulled the lower pan after several members here had bolts and pieces of timing chain guides in the sump . There was nothing in the pan at all. It's had a timing chain tensioner and a water pump/thermostat at 150,000 miles and that's it.
The local independent shop here in Austin says they go 250,000 with regular oil changes. The M42 has good stuff inside it. Stainless valve guides and seats and sodium filled exhaust valves.

[DutchM42]

This is what you can expect with tuning the 318is engine by Dbilas.de

Performance kits for BMW M42B18 Engines


Step I : Upgrade to 114kW / 156HP
includes:
• A throttle body injector system 1453,--
• Complete software update 355,--

• Fitting of the throttle body injector system 261,--
at dbilas dynamic

Completeprice including fitting at dbilas dynamic 1995,--
You save 74,--


Step II : Upgrade to 124kW / 169HP
includes:
• A throttle body injector system 1453,--
• A set of sport camshafts 587,--
• Complete software update 355,--

• Fitting of the throttle body injector system 261,--
• Fitting of the sport camshafts 294,--
at dbilas dynamic

Completeprice including fitting at dbilas dynamic 2850,--
You save 100,--


Step III : Upgrade to 132kW / 180HP
includes:
• A throttle body injector system 1453,--
• A set of sport camshafts 587,--
• Cylinderhead and Valve modification 845,--
• Complete software update 355,--

• Fitting of the throttle body injector system 261,--
• Fitting of the cylinderhead 717,--
and the sport camshafts
at dbilas dynamic

Completeprice including fitting at dbilas dynamic 4090,--
You save 128,--


Step IV : Upgrade to 140kW / 190HP
includes:
• A throttle body injector system 1453,--
• A set of sport camshafts 587,--
• Cylinderhead and Valve modification 845,--
• Complete software update 355,--
• a/N 2000 control unit to replace the 889,--
air flow meter

• Fitting of the throttle body injector system 261,--
• Fitting of the cylinderhead 717,--
and the sport camshafts
at dbilas dynamic

Completeprice including fitting at dbilas dynamic 4900,--
You save 207,--

All prices are in EURO and include 16 % VAT.

[sheepdog]

could htis explain valve tick that came about exactly the same time as new cams?

Could.
No way to say for sure though.

so with an engine bore do you need new pistons too? what all is needed and whats the cost estimate? i'm not very educated on this stuff

You need new pistons anytime you do more than honing pretty much.

In order to keep costs at a minimum and achieving some numbers like that, do we need to go FI?
Thoughts?
Chris

Do you think it is wise adding 30% more power to an engine with 200k miles on it?
Can it be done, yes, but your cheap mod, may come to bite you in the ass if 6 months later you need a rebuild.

While these motors can go a long time, the very least I would do, is go through and replace gaskets, and make sure all of the bolts are in place and threadlocked.

[sheepdog]

On a track an m42 can outperform an e30m3 and a 325iS given mismatched drivers or somewhat equal drivers. Hp and Tq don't make the car fast, it's the driver.

If you're talking of pure drag racing from 0-60 a STOCK m42 is NOT that far off from a 325iS with the basic chip and fresh ignition components as we have seen proven several times. Add cams and a lighter flywheel and you're going to be ahead of an m20b25.

Performance is relative. For what the m42 offers, it delivers a nice "omg he's passing me" expression on the face of m20b25 owners.

If a 318IS was and felt faster than a 325 or M3, how much trouble do you think BMW would have had convincing people to buy the 325?

You would have been a fool to spend more than double on an M3 if that were the case.

[sheepdog]

What exactly could they have done differently?  Off the top of my head, I am guessing:
- MAF
- More agressive cam
- Better software

What else could they have done for no more $?

Lighter flywheel, higher compression, higher redline.

But again, they did not want it to perform better.

[cecotto]

You might squeak out 15-20hp at most.
BMW made damn sure it was not easy to make this car outperform the 325 because had they done a few things different, it would have. Done right, for no more money, this car could have outperformed the M3, which would have really screwed up BMW's lineup.

I dont think BMW went out of their way to keep the 318is in check, not to threathen the 325 or the M3.

The 318is have 136hp / 172nm
The M3 have 195hp / 230nm
Difference: 59hp / 58nm

The M3 have better suspension, brakes and aerodynamics, revs 1000rpm higher, got a close ratio gearbox. Engine design wise the S14 are also ahead of the game, especially the cooling system is of better design, it features a crossflow design where the cooling water is flowed into the head at a inlet at each cylinder. Keeping the combustion chamber cooler giving room for more ignition advance.

Lets not forget that the displacement factor on M42 is based on the block from the M40, so if the engine were to even match the M3 2.3l they would have had to engineer a completely new engine. not being able to utilize much of the same parts. At a considerably extra expense.

On the M42 the water flow is first into the block at the front, then to the back of the block, into the back of the head and to the font of the head. This gives a warmer cylinder 1 than cylinder 4.

On the S42 the crossflow desigh was implemented on the "M42 head", i'm sure this design is at a extra cost. As theres exterior piping to allow for this.

It's my opinion that BMW did a very good job on the M42 / 318is, if they didn't i dont think it would have been chosen to be the replacement of the S14B20...  But a lot was changed on it though.

The The engine management system on theM42 is superior to the M3 though.

I'm sure a good driver in a 318is could outdrive me in my M3 but then again he could probberly also outdrive me if i was driving a E46 M3 CSL.  What i'm saying is that i dont think the driver factor is a good metric for comparing cars... Give them both to The Stig.. And lets hear what he's got to say about them.. :-)

[D. Clay]

What else could they have done for no more$?

A lot of things cost no more due to the fact that a manufacturer has to do it anyway. It doesn't cost any more to make a 2.0 liter engine than a 1.8. These things are basically just choices. You could say a bigger piston costs more but it's a really small proportion of the cost. I doubt that it costs any more to configure a head one way versus another. It's easy to get into a mindset that these things cost more because we have to pay the parts cost and installation. A cam is also a good example. I doubt that a "hotter" profile cost more than a milder one when BMW was designing the M42. But we have to pay a $1000 for a pair of Shricks.
The 318is wasn't sold as a performance model power wise. Fuel economy, drivability, and maintenance costs were big factors. M3 owners were under a different mindset and as a result, they were "hot rods".
BMW could have made the 318is a 320is with a head that flowed and hot cams. Some of the other posters have a point in that it would be hard to sell an M3 or a 325 when a 320is had better balance, handling, 175 HP, and costs the same as a 318is. Then make everybody buy a six to get power windows,mirrors, locks, AT, etc. with an upscale leather interior.
I'm dreaming, time to wake up now.

[e9nine]

Cecotto pretty much hit the nail on the head. As to marketing methods...well, take a look at the 335i vs the e46m3 and soon to come, the e92 m3. There's never direct logic present with marketing.

A 318iS being driven on the track is a "unique" combination and BMW didn't ever campaign the 318iS to the best of my knowledge. It wasn't made with competition in mind. I think there was a Dutch or some other European racing series specific to the m42 or 318iS/i ??

The m42 318i was deliberately introduced the way it came. Notice NO options for leather, OBC, cruise control and premium sound system. We also had a bare bones car that had no LSD, trunk decklid spoiler etc. It was the only model were you could opt for no sunroof to even save a few more pfenings. It's almost as if it was made to replace the eta for the economical BMW customer and they also took advantage with sticking the m42 motor in there and followed through with the m50 later on as the offering for the e36s.

For the US market, we were the only ones to get it in a 4 door flavor

[sheepdog]

I dont think BMW went out of their way to keep the 318is in check, not to threathen the 325 or the M3.

Maybe not out of their way, but they certainly put no effort into chasing it down either.