Author Topic: Warsteiner, Wazzu70 and bmwman91 convince Norm he can build a smoking M42  (Read 26236 times)

Darky

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Re: Metric Mechanic M42
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2014, 07:30:39 PM »
Keith and Norm I prefer my cars on wheels thanks guys!

Norm congratulations on the house mate! Did you serious bye it just for the bigger garage?

Warsteiner have you modified s50 cam trays for m42. I've herd you could do it for the lighter lifters but never seen it done! Pity those manifolds are for lhd!

Cheers rohan

Warsteiner

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Re: Metric Mechanic M42
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2014, 09:19:44 PM »
Yes,  those are the modified S52 cam trays.

Cheers,
~Ralph

bmwman91

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Re: Metric Mechanic M42
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2014, 12:32:43 AM »
Man, I forget to check in here for a few days and BOOM this thread fills up with all sorts of good crazy ideas.

For reference, the cams in my engine are 272/258 and the power feels very linear. Multiple friends have commented that "it just keeps pulling!" and it pulls smooth from 3500RPM onward. Below that it has torque too which is nice to have around town. Personally I think that the bump in displacement to 2.1L is a big part of that (as they say, there's no replacement for displacement!). As Ralph mentioned, cam selection can almost feel like a crapshoot and it looks like hot cams will make for a more balanced powerband in some applications than more conservative ones.

Ralph, when you start looking into slide throttles make sure to post about it. I have been thinking about using some for YEARS because I feel like they have some advantages over butterflies, but I keep reading that they are notorious for sticking open which has dampened my enthusiasm. lol I know, I am a sissy.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

bmwman91

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Re: Metric Mechanic M42
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2014, 12:38:43 AM »
Let's see, addressing other stuff mentioned above...

I am still running the stock AFM. MM is of the opinion that it is not really hurting anything and that swapping in a MAF might gain me a few ponies at the top end. As long as I am running the stock ECU I am not going to worry about it too much because the stock ECU can't even fully take advantage of the improvement in throttle response that a MAF can give.

Injectors...MM said that the stockers can reliably work up to about 185bhp if I remember correctly. They have me running 24# 4-pintle ones now (0 280 150 461) and if anything I think I run a little rich. That's more due to the tune that MM sent me, and Ralph reminded me at least once that any custom built engine really needs tuning on a dyno to get properly dialed in so it is probably because I haven't gotten around to that. Additional thanks are due to Ralph for advising me against the 155 series Bosch injectors that apparently have an issue where they stick open/leak!

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

Warsteiner

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I'm wondering if we should change this topic to something more searchable on the web and archives like Building a M42 Stroker? What do you guys think?

Cheers,
~Ralph

bmwman91

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I dunno, I think I like the new title for this thread.

But yeah, at the rate things are going this thread is going to need a perma-link in the reference section. The thread where you tabulated all the lifter weights also needs a link.

06/05/2011 - 212,354 miles
Visit HERE for a plethora of 318iS stuff and some other randomness.  Would you say I have a, plethora, of pinatas?

normboudreault

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Note:
Title changed to reflect the bad influence of certain members on this site...   :P

Once the build begins, I will really try to document it so that others can benefit from my many mistakes. I will also start a new thread at that point. God help us.

Darky: yes I bought the house for the build. Duh! Oh, that and 3 kids who keep insisting I'm their father...  ???

Keflaman: Dude, you're strong.....what you doing this weekend??? hahaha

As you all can imagine, moving is gonna keep me busy over the next 2 months, Im aiming for May 25th in the new place but I will try to get the 318 there within a week... Pics to follow at some point...

Oh and Warsteiner said he sell me his M3, cheap too....  ;)

Warsteiner

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Now I see a different topic but before it was MM M42 which is totally off topic now since he'll be doing it on his own. So in that case...

Here's my take on camming an engine. I'm not an engineer or a crazy car guy...just trial and error and talking to people who actually do design cams for specific parameters for engines.

The profile that I chose should get me close to what I wanted without having to weld up the cam.  Basically, they cut what they call a 250/250 but for better comparisons, I would recommend looking at duration of lift above 0.050" or greater where flow starts to occur.  This cam registers 222 degrees of duration at 0.050" lift versus the Schrick 256's 215 degrees and the MM 258's 224 degrees. Running this 250/250 combo will get the most powerband out of the car without having to weld up and nitride the cam.  Usually when offsetting the cam timing greatly, you're going to lose somewhere if you find any gains depending on your build.  A cam that makes little power below 4500rpm could mean LOUSY gas mileage and that lots of people are gonna beat you off the line as you try to get past 5K.  Using a 250/250 combo will give you a very strong low and midrange powerband but yet let you pull strong to about 7500rpm.  You can get a cam that pulls to 8000rpm, but I wonder if the power is flat or whether it is still climbing.  Those types of cams seem to pull forever but the car never feels like it is pulling hard but just high, no grunt!  This 250/250 cam set will make it so you don't have to always drive like an a$$hole to feel fast, hahahaha! And I'm not saying that there aren't other combos that will work for other compressions or displacement, it's all about matching parts for the build from the top to the bottom and vice versa! This set was designed to optimize my set up at 10.8:1 for daily driving and will probably also work for an array of other engines as well.
 
So one should really look at lift and duration to be related.  If you have a lot of lift and no duration, you will have a lobe that looks like an arrowhead.  That lobe will beat the heck out of your valvetrain and eventually the cam itself.  This 250 cam is similar to what Schrick did. They use a 0.408" (10.36mm) and I used a 0.405" (10.29mm).  The 250 is a bit more radical though as there is more duration at 0.050", 222 versus 215. With a long duration and high lift cam, one would need 11.25:1 and above to extract a decent idle and power up top. I didn't want to have that high of a compression engine for my daily driver so, these cams end up being perfect for my 10.8:1 compression and for that fact, they don't have to be welded up which is a whole other ball game.
 
So who wants lots of compression? Who wants lots of Horsepower? Who wants lots of cam timing? Well... we all sorta want that all don't we? But there is a trade off. Big Peak numbers and lots of compression due to lots of cam can be misleading.  You don't want an engine that's very peaky.

As an example: So who votes for 220RWHP??  How about 240RWHP??  Or the Big Kahuna 280RWHP??? Look at the comparison of these S14 motors (Not mine).  You don't want the high power one. LOL  You will definitely be left in the dust......

Looks like I should build another one maybe with _ _ _ _ _ / _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!

Cheers,
~Ralph


« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 12:17:13 PM by Warsteiner »

Warsteiner

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Answer: S L I D E / T H R O T T L E S


Warsteiner

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OH WAIT.... THERE ARE MORE!


Warsteiner

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Bmwman91... Not sure if there was just a bad batch of 155's but they were definitely recalled because I had them in my hand ready to go on the motor and had to return them.  So everyone.....That doesn't mean you can't use 155's it was just a particular number inj. BUT.... please use the correct ones that actually have the proper clips and don't shimming or whatever to make them fit. Or carry a fire extinguisher with you at all times in that case... ::)

Cheers,
~Ralph

wazzu70

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Glad to be recognised as a bad influence, although my engine is very "budget."

I can't compete with Ralph!

You can find info on my engine by searching my username. For some reason I can't find it though??
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS

normboudreault

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Do you have those ready to go Warsteiner?? They look insane!!

DesktopDave

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I've been watching this thread grow, very inspirational. I can't wait to see how far this goes.
'08 Karmesinrot 128i 6MT
'86 Zinnoberrot 635CSi (M30B32/G265/3.46 torsen LSD)

Sold: '97 Montrealblau 318iS, '91 Brilliantrot 318i, '91 Brilliantrot 318iS

wazzu70

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The VAC 269/269 street cams seem like a good choice. Catcams has good cam profiles which are pretty aggressive at the higher lifts compared to a Schrick sport cam profile.
-Nick
91 E30 M42 with VEMS