Author Topic: Yet Another stroker M42 (Read 67807 times)

AL GReeNeRy · « **Reply #30 on:** December 05, 2006, 04:08:37 AM »

that valvetrain setup i HOT! all from catcams eh? im guessing its all custom correct? do they have ready made kits for cam upgrades?

cecotto · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2006, 11:18:44 AM »

Quote from: AL GReeNeRy;15021

that valvetrain setup i HOT! all from catcams eh? im guessing its all custom correct? do they have ready made kits for cam upgrades?

Catcams: YES

They should be able to provide you with what you want!

They didn't have specific measurements for the cylinderhead when i first talked to them. So i sent them mine, and they were kind enough to measure everything out for me.

But be warned, allthough it's all measured out dosent mean it's just plug'n'play. You will have to check EVERYTHING, i found that i will have to grind ~0,5mm off the top of the valve collets. To provide the shim-collet clearance nessasary (0,4mm). The shim was sitting on the collet.

You could come up with other solutions to the problem, but i found this to be the easyist. And most straight forward. I've seen Schrick valves with only one groove, so i think i'll be okay with 2� groove.

Where dit all my money go.. :-(

BTW: I have plans on drawing up some valve lift curves on both standard cams and the rally cams. for comparison. I could post the curves in near future if theres interest

nickmpower · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2006, 01:06:33 PM »

hmmm. Im gunna wanna decide in the next couple weeks. maybe i:ll get some from MM if they have the right size

Lund8200 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:20:53 PM »

Looks good, Otto....

We have talked together some time ago about your projekt, I am on the way with a somehow similar one.

Have now found a used M47 crank and it is on its way to me now.
Have just ordered pistons for my set-up, am planning to use those from a Peugeot 406 with a 86 mm. bore.
Had an old M40 engine lying around in my backyard and are using the rods from this, these are 135 mm.

The cylinderhead is done, with new valvetrains and re-cut seats.
Havent decided on cams yet, yours look good, but also very expensive and my engine budget cant cut it.

Hope to see more of you projekt soon....

Thomas from Carl Christensen, if you remember me.....

cecotto · « **Reply #34 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:44:55 PM »

Hej Thomas

Rart at h�re fra dig uden det skal dreje sig om arbejde:-)

Jeg h�rer meget gerne om dit projekt. Ogs� selvom mit m�ske er dyrer, s� synes jeg at det er meget interasant at h�re andres meninger. Samt de veje de har t�nkt sig at g�.

Julen er dyr, og forsikringer samt v�gtafgift kommer i Januar.. S� jeg holder lidt lav profil med mine indk�b et lille stykke tid..

(In english: Nothing interesting just friendly talk :-))

cecotto · « **Reply #35 on:** December 10, 2006, 05:06:13 PM »

Update:

Did some weighting last friday:

-----------------------------------------
New setup:
-----------------------------------------
Mechanical lifter: 47g
Collets: 1*2= 2g
Springs: 51g
Adjusting shim: 3g
Spring retainer: 20g
Intake valve: 58g
Exhaust valve: 54g
Total weighted weight(not calculated) Intake: 182g
Total weighted weight(not calculated) Exhaust: 178g

Total weight intake side: 8 * 182g = 1456g
Total weight exhaust side: 8 * 178g = 1424g
Total intake + exhaust side: 1456 + 1424 = 2.880g

-----------------------------------------
Stock setup:
-----------------------------------------
Hydraulic lifter: 80g (pumped full of water)
Collets: 1*2= 2g
Springs: 62g
Spring retainer: 17g
Intake valve: 58g
Exhaust valve: 54g
Total weighted weight(not calculated) Intake: 219g
Total weighted weight(not calculated) Exhaust: 215g

Total weight intake side: 8 * 219g = 1752g
Total weight exhaust side: 8 * 215g = 1720g
Total intake + exhaust side: 1752 + 1720 = 3.472g

Total weight difference: 592g (~0.6kg) / Around 20% weight cut.

I chose to not just add all the weights together, as i think this would increase inaccuracy, as the cullumative inaccuracy on all the different parts would be greater than weighing allparts together.

nickmpower · « **Reply #36 on:** December 10, 2006, 06:38:40 PM »

are you using 6mm valves?

I think i am going with eagle rods. they are $400 and weight 540g, as much as an m44 rod but are forged

dino245 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 11, 2006, 08:57:04 AM »

sorry nickmpower eagle doesnt make rods for the M42/M44. They advertise that they do but they are the 135mm M20 rods that they say will work on the M42/M44. I spoke with some dude and he said that the "euro" motor had 135 rods which is not correct which is why he has posted that advert for M42/M44 rods. I am surprised they are still on there sight. You need 140mm rods.

nickmpower · « **Reply #38 on:** December 11, 2006, 11:47:00 AM »

fuck are you kidding me. damnit

cecotto · « **Reply #39 on:** December 11, 2006, 12:44:53 PM »

Quote from: dino245;15393

sorry nickmpower eagle doesnt make rods for the M42/M44. They advertise that they do but they are the 135mm M20 rods that they say will work on the M42/M44.

This is what i found too. I tried to talk some sense into them, But they insisted that the US engine had 135mm rods. I gave up, i guess they will have to dissapoint a couple of customers before they realize we're right..

cecotto · « **Reply #40 on:** December 11, 2006, 12:52:24 PM »

Quote from: nickmpower;15354

are you using 6mm valves?

This is 7mm valves, it would be nice to have the 6mm ones.. But this is where i say stop...

I need Rods, ECU, machine work, bearings, etc..

But i have been thinking about prepping another head when i finally get the engine finished. I will just have to see the potential once it's trimmed. I'm not going to invest a whole lot more if it peaks at 180hp. :-p

nickmpower · « **Reply #41 on:** December 26, 2006, 01:19:34 AM »

yeah the 6mm are nice but when the timing guides break and the chain skips on one of the valves breaks off it make you wonder!

My pistons finally came. I kind of wish i would have gotten 86 or 85.5 but it should be fine. I might bite the bullet and have some VAC rods next dayed to me. My hopes is to get everything back from the machine shop by friday and the engine running by monday but i dont think the shop can work that fast

dino245 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 26, 2006, 09:42:03 AM »

Nickmpower who did you get your pistons from?

Cecotto, as a comparison the total weight for the mechanical valve set up is about 52 grams (lifter bucket, shim, lash cap). This is a definatly a high reving engine with a radicle cam. But for those that would like the benifit of a lighter valve trane with out the valve adjustment issues. Use M50 6mm valve parts and VW hydro lifters and you are at less valve mass.

M50 6mm intake valve :46.5 grams
M50 6mm exhaust valve:48 grams
Hydro VW lifter :49 grams w/out oil 53 w/oil
Valve spring retainer :7.5 grams
valve keeper : 1 gram for both halves

This is a cheap and available alternative and if you are not reving past 7500 rpm you should be fine. The newest Ferrari's are all hyro lifter and rev to 8500 rpm all day long.

nickmpower · « **Reply #43 on:** December 26, 2006, 12:05:51 PM »

umm top end performance, same place as cecotto

cecotto · « **Reply #44 on:** December 27, 2006, 03:28:41 PM »

Quote from: dino245;16213

Nickmpower who did you get your pistons from?

Cecotto, as a comparison the total weight for the mechanical valve set up is about 52 grams (lifter bucket, shim, lash cap). This is a definatly a high reving engine with a radicle cam. But for those that would like the benifit of a lighter valve trane with out the valve adjustment issues. Use M50 6mm valve parts and VW hydro lifters and you are at less valve mass.

M50 6mm intake valve :46.5 grams
M50 6mm exhaust valve:48 grams
Hydro VW lifter :49 grams w/out oil 53 w/oil
Valve spring retainer :7.5 grams
valve keeper : 1 gram for both halves

This is a cheap and available alternative and if you are not reving past 7500 rpm you should be fine. The newest Ferrari's are all hyro lifter and rev to 8500 rpm all day long.

Hi dino

I only recently became aware of the lightweight options on the hydro valvetrain, But i'm actually quite happy with the choice i ended up with. Specially as it's kind of a personal study project. I feel i'm not limited in searching out the rev limit. I might find that my goal of 8500rpm will be too high. I see no reason for reving that high if it runs out of breath at 7500 rpm. Then i might regret going with the solid lifters. Also i'm thinking about raising the oil pressure, how will the lifters respond to this. And i'll be running an oil restrictor to the head to keep the majority of oil in the bottom end. So i think the solid lifters will give me better reliabilite in light of my other modifications.

About the ferrari on hydros. Have you ever heard it idling? I havent but im curious to hear if it sounds like the V10 M5/6 engine when thats idling. It's got some very distinct noices that i personally think are the hydro lifters which are made for high rpm. I haven't really ever gotten any explanations on why the M5 engine is noisy at idle.. so this i purely my speculation