Author Topic: mech lifters, where to buy (Read 5412 times)

tim_s · « **on:** May 02, 2008, 05:40:28 AM »

Chaps, where can I get cheapish easy-adjust mech lifters? Catcams (who have made my cams) do shim-under-bucket ones which I will use if I must, but I'd prefer something easier to adjust! Not looking forward to having to have the cam carriers out whenever I need to shim them.
Looks like I'm going mech tappets after nurburgring + rpm = busted veedub lifters. Got some new pattern ones going in today (they were cheap!), but thinking of ditching them for a mech setup.

rob_e30 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2008, 08:14:10 AM »

My machine shop recommended shim-under lifters because he considers them more reilable.

Boyracer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2008, 08:20:40 AM »

What happened to VW lifters? :confused:

Shim over buckets are easier to adjust but no idea where you could buy them for m42... S50 lifters apparently have different diameter and they are meant for about 1,5 cm longer valves, not sure how much that affects the fit. And it seems this type of lifters are suspectible for losing a shim with agressive cams and higher revs.

I'm going for hydro -> solid conversion of stock lifters but they are going to be pain to adjust and they are not the lightest possible option (altought they most certainly are cheapest)

tim_s · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2008, 09:25:31 AM »

no idea what happened to the veedub lifters really, but after a few laps with some full chat high rpm action I came back in with loud tapping. Oil pressure etc is still all good, just the tappets are a bit nailed. noise didn't go away driving all the way back across europe, dropped some hydraulic lifter bodging treatment in there when i got back to london and it's shut up quite a bit. Changed the oil too now, it's not so bad, but I certainly don't intend to live with it! Gonna swap the lifters this eve if the weather cheers up, but I want mech lifters now I've decided. My engine has never really liked hydraulic lifters, and I figure I probably need new cam carriers for it to work properly (newish tappets and cams in there, good oil pressure), and that's more money than a solid lifter conversion. Catcams owe me a cam anyway which I can use for the inlet, and I have a mech exhaust cam I can use.
I think both the s14 and s50 use shim over lifters don't they? The other issue with the catcam shim under buckets is that iirc a guy on here needed to machine down the collets otherwise the shims fouled on them, and if that's the case it's really no good for me as i don't want to have the head off again!

P Zero · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2008, 11:14:09 AM »

I'll be keeping a close eye on this one. I'm just about to start building my engine and I was going to go for veedub lifters.

tim_s · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2008, 01:30:58 PM »

just swapped out the inlet lifters, still tapping a tad on cyl 4 (well, I'm 99% it's cyl 4). not driven far on it, but still all the others have shut up. good news is everything important looks good, the cam journals haven't run dry or anything nasty, everything looks absolutely brand new - literally. The cyl head has only done 15k or so, and the cams only a few thousand, but still. Cam carrier is next on the list, it looks quite worn. They're such an expensive part though! If that fixes it, I'll stay with hyds. If not, mechs it is - there's nothing else I can think of that will fix it. It's only a little bit of noise, but is quite annoying.
I don't think there's an easy way to run mech lifters, looking at the carrier, even top shimmed ones will need the carrier out to shim it as there's stuff in the way to prevent you getting the shim in.

P Zero · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2008, 02:30:23 PM »

What RPM are you running Tim?

RouteZeroDesign · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2008, 06:20:04 PM »

Are you sure you didnt get any coil bind after high rpm use?
What rpm are/were you running?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the rocker type assembly used in the m44?

colin86325 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2008, 10:44:05 PM »

The hydraulic lifters weren't made to sustain high rpms. They were intended to be a citation on a factory "maintenance-free" list of features with which to sell a car.

That's one good thing about the S14--it uses shims to provide the lift, even at high rpms. Depending on the cam selection, you can switch over to shim-under buckets for more aggressive cams.

Boyracer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2008, 04:01:19 AM »

Contemporary hydraulic lifters are quite good. Current M3 engine S65 has hydraulic lifters that weight only 30 grams and they are good up to 8400 rpm stock

Just noticed that this engine also uses almost 36 mm intake valves and the vale stems are 5 mm, cracy stuff :eek:

I wonder what is the lenght of those valves, if I just could source some 5 mm valve guides that fit M42...

Boyracer · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2008, 04:17:16 AM »

ZOMG!

Just calculated how high you could rev M42 with valvetrain built with lighter S65 parts if same valve spring rate is maintained or you use S65 springs...

8525

There would be about 35% weight reduction. And intake valve area is significantly larger.

Those intake valves seem cheap (15� but will be more in finland after VAT etc), maybe I order one of them for measurements.

Even if the spring and valve leghts are ok, I think cam carrier would require some serious modifications to accept totally different S65 lifters.

tim_s · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2008, 07:01:03 AM »

Quote from: RouteZeroDesign;48952

Are you sure you didnt get any coil bind after high rpm use?
What rpm are/were you running?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the rocker type assembly used in the m44?

yeah i wondered at first, but I'm as sure as one can be! i'm pretty certain it's tappet noise listening to it. plus it goes away occasionally = tappet, plus wynns hydraulic bodging fluid quietened her down which wouldn't have happened with coil bind! No signs of anything amiss when the carrier was out either. I soft limit at a true 7150, hard 7200. Not sure exactly where peak power lies on the cams I have in there at the mo, used to be 6650 rpm (and only fade just a tad even at 7k), but I'm running wilder cams now so I let her rev up to 7,150.
m44 rocker assembly is quieter and less friction, and m44 heads in general are really nice (I did consider using one for a while, had a spare sat in my garage!), but the m44 uses the m40 hyd followers which were notoriously rubbish in the m40. The m44 doesn't seem to suffer in the same way though. I've never really seen any grinds with awesome valve lift on an m44, so it prob requires more work to get there.

Quote from: colin86325;48962

The hydraulic lifters weren't made to sustain high rpms. They were intended to be a citation on a factory "maintenance-free" list of features with which to sell a car.

That's one good thing about the S14--it uses shims to provide the lift, even at high rpms. Depending on the cam selection, you can switch over to shim-under buckets for more aggressive cams.

thanks, but hyd lifters should be fine for most m42 applications rpm-wise and lifter overpumping doesn't fit my symptoms. i reckon i prob need a new cam carrier, not in any great rush though. I'm tempted to renew the lower timing case and entire oil pump assembly (I changed the rotors and check valve with the rebuild), but reckon that would be a waste of time, I have good oil pressure. I'm just anal like that.
ultimately i prefer to run hyds - less maintenence, I'm really happy with my cam grinds, they ramp off the valve seat pretty aggressively and give the duration and lift I want, no noise from clearance etc. If they'd work, they're probably the better choice for me (which is why I didn't go solid lifter in the first place)! If I can't get them to work I'll have to go mechanical. Need to pull my finger out really, car taps, has a rear wheel bearing gone, and just generally needs some tlc. she was perfect before the ring trip, oops.