Alpha/N - control unit

[sjoerd]

Go megasquirt:

This guy builds PnP systems and you can get them setup how you want.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=204722

okey thanks
Dederic Motorsports Plug and Play Standalone Engine Management System for m42, m50nv, m50tu, s50 <- so this is the one i need? (perfect for street use and pragrammable) and nothing else is needed?
grtz

[MLM]

It doesn't compensate for temperature or altitude.

I would first research what your tuners like to use. Then make your decision as to what direction you will go.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Hi Ralph, I have to disagree here as this may not be true for all A/N systems. I have a link ecu a varient of your vipec. In A/N mode the MAP port acts as a barometric measurement and correction, and there is a inlet air temp sensor for temp correction. I daily my car in traffic, open road,summer,winter and I behaves very well with this setup.

[Warsteiner]

MLM,
I agree with you:-)  Sorry for the confusion. It may not be all the different units out there but there are definitely some. I should have said some. Then I should have said, the more control and options you want, the more expensive it gets...LOL Unless you stick with MS which is very reasonable.

He also wanted to use the Dbilas A-N control unit set up and you couldn't tune that without getting more equipment i.e.. an emulator.  It's still a chip based system. I had a chip based A-N on my M3 back in the day and it was rough. They now have A-N systems for tuning fuel but the spark is still chip based. Then you get into the full stand alone and that's where the knowledge and the $$$ comes into play with "some" units. Running "true" Alpha N and running MAP are two different worlds. I won't run A-N on a street car unless it's blended like you're saying and it's not on the stock ECU. It doesn't have the stability as MAP does. Any change in altitude and your tuner had better have made all of the necessary changes in multiple maps or Kaboom! This made all the maps run way richer than necessary because it was an extrapolation of what could be and not what actually was. That also meant loss of power being on the excessive rich side to be safe mentality. Also, any change you make to the engine, i.e. cams, air filter, exhaust etc... you have to retune the engine to compensate for that. That's not fun for a street car. MAP or a blend would be much better suited for the street.

If you are going MAP, with adding the ITB's that he wanted, this creates the issue of taking the sample from all 4 inlets instead of just 1 or each set of ITB's. So you need to build a balance bar to draw from for your sample for a stable signal.  It's all in how you want to tune the engine.

Cheers,
~Ralph

[sjoerd]

and do you roughly know how mucht a decent stand allone will cost me? it doesn't have to be one with a lot of options, if i can drive without my air flow meter and if it's tuneable/programmable and good for street use it's gooed for me.

[murky024]

Go megasquirt:

This guy builds PnP systems and you can get them setup how you want.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=204722

okey thanks
Dederic Motorsports Plug and Play Standalone Engine Management System for m42, m50nv, m50tu, s50 <- so this is the one i need? (perfect for street use and pragrammable) and nothing else is needed?
grtz

I think it is 99% PnP so you would need to a vacuum line for a MAP sensor and replace o2 sensor with wideband. I would email the maker at the email provided in the post to ask the exact items required for base MS2/3.

MS is a stand alone system that is open source and highly supported in the online community. Buying a PnP system will allow you go to MAP based tuning for the best price and most room for upgrade in the future. MS has functionality to help you tune the vehicle and is understood by most tuners so should be able to be tuned easily.

[sjoerd]

Interesting, not sure if its tuneable or if its just a pre set program. My assumption is it just simulates the AFM so the chip is still needed. For that cost, might as well install a standalone instead.

Alpha-N means using the throttle position for load instead of MAP/MAF/AFM.

a stand allone cost allot more, not? still nit wide band lambda sensor? al the cables and shit, the tune..
or am i wrong?

[wazzu70]

A standalone could probably be had for less cost, but there is work involved. There are people running M42 now based on many systems so you should be able to get the trigger settings easily enough.

You will need to tune/have it tuned.

The best thing to do is find someone who you want to tune the engine and see what they prefer. Results are always better using what your tuner recommends. If you are going to tune it then the options are more open.

[sjoerd]

A standalone could probably be had for less cost, but there is work involved. There are people running M42 now based on many systems so you should be able to get the trigger settings easily enough.

You will need to tune/have it tuned.

The best thing to do is find someone who you want to tune the engine and see what they prefer. Results are always better using what your tuner recommends. If you are going to tune it then the options are more open.

some guys i know told me a full functional stand allone+ tuned engine wil cost me easely 2500euro, are they right? cause non of tha ever had a stand alone..

[Warsteiner]

Sjoerd....
You need to talk to your tuner directly. They will tell you what your tune and unit will cost.

You can probably get a Megasquirt unit shipped to you and ready to go for about 700euro. Tuning is then whatever your tuner charges and how good they are. With a start up map already installed, you could be looking at 4-5hrs to tune and another 700euro. So I would say less than half of what your guys told you. All depends on the tuner and their comfort level of the unit. IF they don't know MS at all then there is a slight learning curve and that costs money so it's important to talk to them first. Some tuners won't touch certain units because they don't work with them and they don't know them.

Please make the phone call or email your tuner and see how they can help you first before you drive yourself crazy   .....lol


Cheers,
~Ralph

[sjoerd]

it's to late, my head is mest up by beemers :p
i found a good tuner (KMS) some of there cars -> https://www.youtube.com/user/kronenburgautosport/videos
he is making a NA 200hp+ rally e30 318is now and he is verry helpful. thanks a lot guys for al the info!
grtz

[Tgoode318]

Awesome, You Made the right decision to go Stand alone!

-TG

[sjoerd]

just one more question :p
is stand allone a stupid upgrade whan the engine will be pretty stock? i will only get itb's,cams, COP and maybe bigger injectors if this is possible without upgrading pistons ect... i won't rise te rpms higher than 7250 caus it's mainly a street car and i don't whant solid lifters.

[wazzu70]

No its not stupid. I have a standalone on my car and the only engine mod is bigger cams. I got rid of the AFM since its a MAP based system.

Throttle response is much improved, engine is tuned properly for my setup, I can datalog to see what the engine is doing for problem solving. When I make future upgrades I can adapt the tune to take full advantage of them.

With the mod list you said, its a good candidate for standalone!

[sjoerd]

No its not stupid. I have a standalone on my car and the only engine mod is bigger cams. I got rid of the AFM since its a MAP based system.

Throttle response is much improved, engine is tuned properly for my setup, I can datalog to see what the engine is doing for problem solving. When I make future upgrades I can adapt the tune to take full advantage of them.

With the mod list you said, its a good candidate for standalone!

okey thanks stand allone doesn't make the car more unreliable?

[MLM]

No a stand alone in itself dosnt make a car unreliable. A poor tune on the standalone or poor installation might. That and the fact you will probably drive the car much harder...