Timing cover gaskets - new gasket(s) seeping oil - questions within >>

[Cobra Jet]

My M42 was entirely rebuilt by bmwpower (I purchased the car from him) and he did a 100% thorough job when rebuilding & reinstalling all of the engine parts.  He went by the available manuals (both online & physical books) and all parts used were brand new.  All engine bolts were also torqued to factory specifications too.

Now here comes the question(s)....

The front timing cover gasket(s) are seeping oil.  All of the bolts around this area are and were torqued to factory specs.  None of the manuals mentioned any use of gasket sealer when installing these new gaskets.  The gaskets are brand new gaskets!!  All of the surfaces on the engine & timing covers were thoroughly and 100% cleaned before being reassembled and before any gaskets were put into place.

(ALSO NOTE: The rest of the engine is dry and free of any oil seepage or leaks, as the seepage/leak is definitely coming from the front timing cover gaskets.)

I have included a pic of the area/gaskets in question below:


Reference gaskets # 15 (lower timing cover gasket) & 16 (L & R upper timing cover gaskets) which are seated behind #1 (upper timing cover) and #2 (lower timing cover).

Should these gaskets have had gasket sealer used on them (or the cover surfaces) prior to being installed?

Why would brand new gaskets seep oil?  The oil being used is regular non-synthetic 10w40...  Since the engine was reassembled and the car was put back on the road, I've since put over 1,000 miles on it.  

After reading some other threads, I came across this one where another member ALSO had front timing cover oil seepage after installing brand new gaskets:

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5117

His remedy after installing the 2nd set of gaskets (after the 2nd brand new set leaked), he removed the gaskets entirely and used Permatex's "The Right Stuff" and has not had any oil seepage since...

Can someone offer up some opinions as to why brand new gaskets would seep or leak oil?  Is there possibly a manufacturing defect with these new gaskets or maybe they are not being made of the correct material to prevent seepage?  Should gasket sealer be used in these areas even though the manuals make no mention of it?

[bmwman91]

Using synthetic oil usually leads to a little more seepage, if that is what you run.  Where exactly is it leaking?  Both sides of the upper & lower timing cover?  If you are really bothered by it then go for the Permatex sealer & new gaskets.  Unless you are missing like 2 quarts of oil every 5000 miles I would not worry (outside of making a mess in my driveway).

[Cobra Jet]

Using synthetic oil usually leads to a little more seepage, if that is what you run.  Where exactly is it leaking?  Both sides of the upper & lower timing cover?  If you are really bothered by it then go for the Permatex sealer & new gaskets.  Unless you are missing like 2 quarts of oil every 5000 miles I would not worry (outside of making a mess in my driveway).

No, no synthetic is being used, just standard "dino" 10w40.

It's seeping on both sides of the timing cover.  The seepage is definitely contained to the gaskets that seal the front cover(s) to the engine.  There is no seepage at all from the valve cover, crank sensor, cam sensor, or oil can.  I can visibly see oil seepage where the gaskets are sandwhiched between the front cover & engine block.

This seepage is leaving oil spots in the driveway too, as the oil seeps down the sides of the timing cover and eventually will "drip" onto the street or driveway surface... and I have been checking the oil level every other day, just to keep a close eye and monitor the situation.

Is there a possibility these gaskets are not sealing properly due to a manufacturing defect - either in material used or thickness of gasket?

Is a gasket sealer supposed to be used in this area, even though none of the manuals refer to using a sealer inconjunction with the gaskets?

It's not just me having the issue, as the other member in the above linked thread also had the same experience.

?

[nomad]

I used a thin coat of permatex, like paper thin to help the gasket "stick" to the cover and then a paper thin coat just for good measure on the block surface. No leaks.

[tim_s]

I'll add myself to this list. I've rebuilt my lower front timing housing twice with new gaskets and no sealant and it has leaked. I ensured all surfaces were perfect before assembling, fitted a new crank seal etc, even retorqued to check all was well. I eventually rebuilt with hylomer blue, no leaks. I'm not sure why they seem to leak even with new gaskets, but I'd def recommend using a non-silicone based jointing compound on them.

[Frank Gallegos]

The repair manual that is posted here in the FAQ/REFERENCE section under M42 Reference area does state that the butt joints of the timing cover need to be "filled with a blackpermanently elastic sealing compound, 3 Bond 1207B"

http://ee1394.com/bmw/docs/factory/repair/en/index1.htm

start by clicking "MainGroup" than "11 Engine" than "Model 318is - M42" than "11 14 115 Timing case, lower - remove and install/seal or replace"
Check that section out and look into the rest of the procedure, as to reinstalling the upper timing case cover.

Hopefully this helps.

Frank

[Cobra Jet]

The repair manual that is posted here in the FAQ/REFERENCE section under M42 Reference area does state that the butt joints of the timing cover need to be "filled with a blackpermanently elastic sealing compound, 3 Bond 1207B"

http://ee1394.com/bmw/docs/factory/repair/en/index1.htm

start by clicking "MainGroup" than "11 Engine" than "Model 318is - M42" than "11 14 115 Timing case, lower - remove and install/seal or replace"
Check that section out and look into the rest of the procedure, as to reinstalling the upper timing case cover.

Hopefully this helps.

Frank

I looked through that section of the manual after you posted.  It appears that the butt joints the manual is referring to are only those where the profile gasket from the front cover meets the profile gasket area on the face of the engine block.  I don't see any other reference at all to using any type of sealant on or around the front timing cover gaskets (or the face of the engine block).

M42 member bmwpower (who rebuilt my M42) did exercise the use of gasket sealer at the profile gasket butt joints, so that is a non-issue and I have no leaks in that area.

I don't know how to make it more understandable, but if looking at the sides of the front timing cover where it meets the block, for those of us who have new gaskets, you can see the very edge of the timing cover gasket sandwiched between the cover & face of engine block.  At this very edge is where oil is seeping out of, on both sides.  The oil seeps from here and then will run down the sides to the bottom of the engine, where most likely it will drip off and leave oil on a garage floor, driveway or street.

Now that a 3rd M42 member (Tim_S) above has also stated he experienced the same oil seepage at the same area with brand new gaskets - I'm beginning to wonder if the gaskets being used are defects in some way???

Has anyone else rebuilt an M42 and had this front timing cover oil seepage - if so, PLEASE speak up....

~~~

Tim_S - where did you purchase your timing cover gasket from and if you remember, who manufactured it (or what brand was it)?  

The reason I am asking is so that *maybe* we can narrow down this down to a supplier and/or manufacturer of a certain gasket that will or has failed...  M42 Member "pifane" from the link I included in my original post said he purchased his timing cover gasket set from BMA.  I'll have to ask bmwpower where he purchased the set used on my M42 rebuild and what brand those were...

[pifane]

This is the lower timing chain cover gasket who failed in my case. I have replaced it by a brand new "Victor Reinz" gasket for my car and after 100 KM he have failed too...so, ive removed it, removed the conditionned air support, shorten the bolt and fixed eveything in place with this stuff. http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_the_Right_Stuff_Gasket_Maker.htm

For the moment, it's seem to be great.No more leak, but my engine have 210 000 milles, next time it will leak, trust me, I will not put more money on this shit.... MY HOOD is always open!!! I have to check oil everytime ill go just because i cant trust this engine!

It's bad. I love my BMW, but I have to finish school and get a nice job to buy a 135I with the second best engine of the years of 2008, the N54B30...

[nomad]

Mine hasn't leaked because i used a thin coat of permatex. I'd suggest you do the same and you probably won't have an issue anymore. Sucks to have it happen but I think the new gaskets may not be the same type as the old or the gasket mounting surface was affected somehow.

[pifane]

Someone who had 3 audi and 7 BMW told me that these engine have problem with gasket because the engine made a high oil pressure after many years of use. He told me that the thing who control this pression it not working properly after years and years........Im not sure....

[RidingSimple]

Bump.
I have the same problem (have had it with all (4) of my E30/E36 M42's where I have removed the A/C compressor and bracket).  

In my case, the vertical gaskets on both sides of the upper and lower timing case covers are original.  The problem doesn't seem to be on the drivers (left) side, but the A/C compressor side, (passenger, right).  As mentioned a few posts above (Post , if you plan on removing your A/C compressor *bracket*, you WILL need to get new shorter bolts for the (2) front holes where the A/C compressor bracket mounts.  It is a fact that said bracket does indeed seal that area (although it still "seeps" with it on).  

Anyways, for now, I am going to get the (2) shorter bolts at Home Depot, and clean the area with brake cleaner, and put a sealant bead on the outside (I know this isn't ideal, but if it minimizes it, I will be happy).

Justin, who replaced the Timing case horizontal gasket, valver cover gasket, upper and lower oil pan gaskets, and oil filter housing gaskets and STILL has a leak....sigh.

[carl6405]

Just replaced the oil pump and replaced all of the gaskets in question here. No leaks. Yes, we did use permatex to help seal the gaskets. Those gaskets are just paper gaskets and need a little help with permatex gasket sealer.