Author Topic: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS) (Read 6791 times)

faon e30 · « **on:** May 01, 2014, 04:58:08 AM »

Hi guys,

im trying to build a group n race car and as i understund the only homologation for our car is 5401.
in my country (greece) you maust follow a homologation, if you want to participate a race.

so i need a copy of A/N 5401 papers to find out, if its posibole for me (Financially) to build a race car.....
if any body has please pass me...

also any posible help for (fia aprooved) modifications and tune up is wellcome

greedings from greece

p.s. sorry my english
p.s. I allredy have start with body restoration when i have some progres I will open a new project with my work!!!!

ispierrot · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2014, 02:45:18 PM »

Right on page # 9

http://e30-talk.com/motorsport/t-n-5401-homologationsblatt-e30-318is-106450.html

faon e30 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2014, 04:08:04 AM »

I need your experience�

As you understand for my previous post, I am trying to build a (low budget) race car; my base is a 2 door 1987 E30. I want to join in the hill climb championship.
The most important regulations are:

N/A engine up to 2.0 l
FIA safety Regulations (both car safety and driver equipment)

So, I have to use the M42 as core. (Cause of Homologation)
My plan is to use m47b20 crank to reach the 2 litters but I don�t have a cheap solution for pistons and rods. 88mm (s) x 85 mm b x 4 = 1997 cc!!!!
And this is my first question, what pistons and rods I must find (85mm) ? (1)
Of course I am speaking for used parts�.

My next step is to upgrade to ITB, one solution is dbilas but is expensive and the other is from s50b30, is that correct or I have more options? (2) I have seen same projects with ITB from bikes but I think it is better if it is directly fit.

At this time of project, and trying to be low budget, I will make as more as possible improvements for the less money�.
1) Lighter flywheel
2) No cat
3) Free air filter
4) Grid cams (duration?) (3)
5) Chip (or ochric because I will use 100ron fuels, any suggestions? (4))
6) Exhaust (size?(5), I will build it my own)
7) Electric fun

Remove steering pump
9) Electric water pump (is it possible? (6)I will try it�.)
10) oil cooler (any suggestions? (7))

Any other value for money mod??( 8 )

About breaks, what is your opinion? (9) I am on to UUC�. Any cheaper upgrad?

Thanks for your time,

I (hope�) will come with more�.

Ps: I enumerated my questions�

Darky · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2014, 07:30:40 PM »

Hello from oz
I'd go m44 crank and s50b32 pistons be lighter bottom end with lighter flywheel again and rev higher and harder. Or ignore regs and and go 2.1 they won't check.
S50 itb would work
Which engine e36 or e30?
Cams 260-250 range and if your using standard valve springs lift has to be 10.6 or less
Exhaust would depend on compression 4-1 for less than 11-1 and 4-2-1 for higher compression
1.5 from cylinders to 2.5 main
Electric fan grab one from a e30 with ac 2 speed front mount. Thermostat controlled
Electric water pump would be a good idea if the engine is going to live at high revs. It's been done on this forum, the mani advantage is that at high revs the normal water can be known to cavitate and not work properly.
Oil cooler don't think it's required, but some are available from certain m20's
Brakes e34 rotors and rx7 calipers is a cheap workable upgrade.

That's my 2c
Cheers Rohan

faon e30 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2014, 08:32:10 AM »

Thank you my friend for your immediately response from the other side of the earth�

Now I am considering two offers for almost the same money (700�) an E30 and a E36 engine. Both M42.I am not sure if it is possible the E36 engine suits cause of the oil panel but I believe it its possible with M40 one(?). The space for the exhaust manifold I think is enough.

On the other hand, if I follow your advice to use M44 crank why not to find a M44 engine (?) or M44 doesn�t fit, or M42 is better (if yes what is its advantages?).

How it sound to you if I use M44 pistons (85mm), Μ42 rods and M47 crank (88mm)? 85x88x4=1997. Does this work or there is problem with the valves or somewhere else (too high or low CR e.c.t.)?

In my first steps to races I think a 2l m42 engine with a reliable chip (?) for 100 ron, free air filter, more aggressive cams, a (2.15-2.5�) main exhaust, free muffler and decat, delete power steering and a light weight fly wheel is more than enough� of course with balanced (polished and saved also crank) internals possible to run over 7.500 rpm the limit for the hydraulic lifter (I supposed)�. How many hp I should expect with this?

At my second step, I will fit custom manifold exhaust, bigger throttle body with single butterfly (I haven�t seen it before) and bigger injectors. Is it possible to work with standard ecu and maf? Maybe using tunepro? (looks like a nice experiment�..

) 180+ are possible or have to fit ITB and standalone ecu?

After that, I will delete the MAF and use Megasquirt ( or something..), and maybe it�s time to transform the lifter to mechanical, and forge brand new custom rods and piston (lightweight) so it is possible to reach 8500 rpm which is and the limit for an amateur race car�..
This could be the third and almost final step (until change level�..) and hope to hit more than 220hp� (When I win the lottery�

)

Anyway, this week I hope I will finish with the bodywork, and hunt to respray inside the car and under the chassis. I also try to remember to take some photos to upload my progress�.
After that, have to grab an engine��

(I prefer m42 of E30�.)
Looking forward your Advises and ideas�.

E36-italia · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2014, 01:49:00 PM »

Quote from: faon e30 on June 23, 2014, 08:32:10 AM

and maybe it�s time to transform the lifter to mechanical, and forge brand new custom rods and piston (lightweight) so it is possible to reach 8500 rpm which is and the limit for an amateur race car�..

It's nice to see what they can do with modern technology.. the 8500rpm rev limit for amateur races..
lol 1995 it was the max RPM for the S42/E36 320i STW

in case you do win the lottery, buy a S42 engine.. or build a 'replica' with real parts

faon e30 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2014, 05:08:19 AM »

Quote

t's nice to see what they can do with modern technology.. the 8500rpm rev limit for amateur races..
lol 1995 it was the max RPM for the S42/E36 320i STW

8.500 rmp was restriction, they could easily reach 12.500 rpm and hit more than 370-380 hp

if i won the lottery i would bay this.......

and her younger sister...

but I will never forget this......

Darky · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2014, 05:28:11 AM »

Engines
M44 was designed for better economy so less friction and tappets instead of lifters which don't handle high revs as well.
M42 e36 has 6 mm valve steams
M42 e30 has 7 mm valve steams
So I would recommend the e36 as a base but it would depend on condition but keep that in mind.

Crankshafts (15 mm thereabouts sides)
M42 forged 81 mm heavy (8 counterweights)
M44 cast 83.5 mm light (4 counterweights. Balancing will be interesting but cheap as chips)(because this one is cast it's not as strong, but should be alright)

Hartge cranks
There's a 91 mm one and a 100 mm both are worth a bomb and very rare.

Diesel cranks (18 mm sides this is due to the 17:1 compression for a diesel)
M47d20 forged 88 mm vheavy (8 counterweights)
These next 2 are a pain because the snout has to be lengthened
M47tud20 forged 89.6-90 mm middleweight (3-4 counterweights and a wheel)
M47tu2d20 forged 89.6-90 mm vvheavy (7 counterweights and a wheel)

Pistons
S50 86-86.4 mm deep bowl can be decked well over 3 mm
M42,m44 quite flat in comparison to s50
Euro s50 piston have 21 mm piston pin
US s50 pistons have 22 mm piston pin (wrist pin whatever)

With putting a 88 mm stroke and m44 piston together you have to deck the piston more than 3 mm and then pocket it another 3 mm and I don't think there's enough meat for that. You could use honda b18c conrods which are 138 mm instead of 140 mm which might save you. But they are 21 mm wrist pin.

As for reving the engine up that high get a m44 timing cover installed. It had a timing chain guide rather than a wheel which was prone to stuffing up. With that m44 oil pump is different (bigger) to m42. Probably a dry sump too.
And massive head work s50 tray lifters. New bigger valves stronger lighter valve springs to name a few things.
Cheers

faon e30 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2014, 04:59:36 AM »

So first let's solve the engine problem
From what I understand, m42 E30 is better,
1) Bigger 1 mm valve steams (or is a disadvantage..?)
In addition:
2) Doesn’t need oil sump swap
3) Maybe exhaust manifold swap…..
Are these correct?

Anyway, I have about two-three weeks till I decide, because it's a weekend hobby, and this weekend I am moving to new house, I need about to days for the paintings – inside and under the cassis (the house
will be painted when my baby turns on….)

Second, what do you mean that I have to deck the piston? (my English maybe doesn’t help me enough….) about pockets (I understand) and I think you are right.
So what are my options for 2.0 l? ougfh@s........

Darky · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2014, 07:17:49 AM »

E36 m42 better smaller valve steams less restriction on air flow through head. You see the air has to pass the valve steams to get into cylinder so smaller the better.
But you want m44 lower timing case, better in almost all regards ie timing chain, pump and pressure relief valve.

If you really have to be below 2 l. Heaps of options stroke 81 and bore 86.4 or 83.5 and 86.4 but this would not be as strong, light and fast effectively doubling the light flywheel and 1980 cc thereabouts. 88 and 86 would be the best but a little over at 2040.

Decking the piston means cutting the top of it off so that it does not argue with the head, valves. No one wins that argument. Also required to get the desired compression ratio. Not many go above 11.5:1. But it Depends on the fuel to be used as well.

Author Topic: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS) (Read 6791 times)

faon e30

Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

ispierrot

Re: HOMOLOGATION PAPERS A/N 5401 (318 IS) ????

faon e30

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

Darky

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

faon e30

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

E36-italia

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

faon e30

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

Darky

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

faon e30

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)

Darky

Re: Race Car based on HOMOLOGATION A/N 5401 (318 IS)