Messages (Become)

Hey lambertius,

I would talk to Mark D'Sylva in Toronto, Canada! He was willing to work with me to tune my stroker with Dbilas ITB's on the stock E30 ECU. Not sure what he'll say about the E36 and reflashing but it's worth a shot.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/products.htm

I would also talk to a new member apexspeedtech.com here on the forum and a master at tuning. He's in California, USA

Here is Neel's link
http://apexspeedtech.com

I've done all the above you mentioned 

 Going on info from an old timer in the mechanic field, I advanced the intake cam timing on a stock M42 motor and stock cams 3-5 degrees with a Jim C chip and I thought that it wasn't as good as the stock cam setting. So my suggestion would be to go with a stock manufacturer setting at first and then play around from there. When I built the stroker I had a friend design a custom cam profile that would give lots of torque across the rev range. The torque band was flat which is great for the street. The E30M3 S14 Evo2 came with a special exhaust cam gear to scavenge for more torque. When you changed cams it just wasn't worth it anymore so it may only have been good for stock cam purposes. You'd really have to play around with cam gears and cams to find the optimal tuning for your application.

 I've also done a lot of cam work with the E30M3 S14 with a 2.3L and 2.5L. I've had stock and Schrick's and regrinds that mimic Dbilas or BMP cams(which were Dbilas cams). Schrick cams are like having an on/off switch, more raw; the power comes on hard. One sec it's not there and then you just take off. LOL

I now have a shim under bucket set up on my 2.5L S14 with 304*/296* regrind Dbilas cam set up. The motor makes 330+HP at the crank. These cams are so much more refined and progressive than the Schrick's. The power is so much more linear and it's very deceiving! I've heard Cat Cam could be another option but I have no experience with their cams. If I were to do cams for a M42 motor I would go Dbilas. They have great customer service as well!

That S14 motor also has a stand alone ViPec ECU on it. So much more control with a stand alone. My M42 stroker had MSII running Alpha N and MAP making 212HP at the crank with mild street cams. I would find out what your local tuner likes to use and go with that option. It will save you time, which is money, so they don't have to learn a new system. Remote tuning is also an option and requires buying a few toys to log your runs.

So you have lots of options to choose from and they're all great ones!  bmwman91 is setting up a custom stand alone and then there is Neel who is a new member but known to some of us in the stand alone and BMW world as well for his masterful tuning expertise!

Here is the link that bmwman91 is working on with the stand alone project.
http://www.m42club.com/forum/index.php?topic=20113.0

Hope this helps!

Cheers mate,
~Ralph

Thanks Dave!!

Happy New Year to everyone!!

There is a new owner.....Xmas was good to them from me! Not only did they get the motor but the whole car which had the Metric Mechanic Sport tranny and E30M3 4.10 diff and complete exhaust with a bunch more.

I'm not going anywhere just yet. I'm gonna hang around for awhile if that's ok with everyone....I may even build another one. Not sure. I have to put these S42 Slide Throttles on something ya know!!!   I do have a bunch of other parts that need to go as well so I'll be posting some stuff for sale soon.

Wishing everyone an amazing 2021!!

Cheers,
~Ralph

Well then go for it!! But again, more duration and lift will move your power band as well. It may move 500-1000 rpm if not too aggressive. Also remember the state of your piston reliefs. Are they pocketed enough to handle the lift?

Not sure there is a big deal with not having enough cam other than running out of umpf at the top end.

I know my engine can definitely handle more cam because I top out at like 6900-7000rpm but can rev to 7,500. So I've made all my 212HP by then so no need to run it higher unless you're holding that gear to make a specific corner without shifting on the track.

Dyno sheets help tremendously too. They show you where your engine is running at. New cams will shift those graphs hopefully for the better!

Cheers,
~Ralph

Sion,

On my MSII settings it says .... Tooth 1 Angle (deg BTDC) 114*

Darky,

Yes advancing the intake cam only will give you more HP at the top end without any loss on the bottom end. No need to retard the exhaust side when doing this.

Cheers,
~Ralph

bez-tech is correct. The M20 FW will need to be machined in order to accept the M42 ring gear. It's not a direct swap no matter how cold you get the FW. The ring gear will still need to be heated if done correctly. It's not a difficult task but the FW is a very hard material and will eat expensive bits, hence the reason for the cost of them being so high as compared to the JB aluminum ones.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Sion,
I run the beehive springs with my motor. I have 33mm buckets and 10.4mm lift on my cams and there is no issue.

I run my rev limit at 7500rpm's.

Cheers,
~Ralph

Thanks Dave.... I had fun designing and building that motor.

So here's the quick down and dirty!

Internal bottom end components are all easy to find. M47 diesel crank with GSR 138mm rods and your choice of piston. I went with S50 because they were available to me. I used the M44 HG which supports the S50 piston but I'm not sure about the S52 piston. My rods are aftermarket GSR hence lighter but the proper measurements on the big end. You can re bush the small end.
That's really it for the lower other than replacing your oil squirters in the block and checking your oil anti-drain back valve between cylinders 2-3.

The top end is a completely different animal and has tons of possibilities. I did some of the no-no's that some say aren't possible but as a unit my motor supports them very well.
45mm ITB's, dual exhaust and porting the head. I have them all. Lol. Then I lightened the valve train with 6mm valve stems, 33mm buckets with cam trays. No more AFM. Then comes the pricey stuff.... Custom headers, E30M3 complete exhaust with SuperSprint muffler. This needed a custom down pipe from header to exhaust. The ITB's too. Lol. Custom cams but the these give an incredibly flat torque band from 4100-6900! Custom tuning that can snag you 212hp and 174ft/lbs at the crank on 10.9 compression.

There's probably much more I'm forgetting but that is the meat of it for my build.

Anything can be done. My limiting factor for HP are my cams. But I wanted a solid street car not a track car so my cams are great at 4100 and not starting at like 5500 and the compression supports them. Lots
Of things to think about. Lol

Cheers,
~Ralph

I have all my inj's done by Rich. Awesome service.

Rich Jensen
(231) 796-5705
http://cruzinperformance.com/fuelinj.html

Cheers,
~Ralph

Ok...choose whatever head you like but you're not going to swap any valve guides over! LOL  If you meant switching from 7mm to 6mm then that's ok but you always put new guides in no matter what. Just making sure that's what you were saying:-)  The guides are measured from the inside diameter not the outside. So you would need new 6mm valve guides with 6mm stock valves if you wanted them without any other change.

You don't have to change any seats if you don't want to. All depends on what you're doing to the head and how much $$$ you want to spend. All out race motor with no expense skipped then you could go 34mm on the intake and 31.5mm on the exhaust or bump up to whatever the S42 had which I think was 35mm/32mm.

Internet myth about the front hub blowing up at above 7K. I have yet to hear of one actual case of this. I've told the story about the SC M42 at the track at WGI running 7.5K all day long for years!! It's still running! LOL  And now MM running 7.7K? Don't you think they would have a warranty issue unless of course they redesigned it and put a new one on??  Anyone with a MM 2.1L want to chime in?

Sion, You should have a screaming motor when it's all put together... Good Luck!!

Cheers,
~Ralph

Ronan,

The small end on the rod is easily handled. You just have it re-bushed and honed to 22mm with the new bushing to fit the S50 pin. Done!

If you don't change the crank then I see no need to use the GSR rods but they could run you in  $300-$400 range. Shaving the piston, cutting reliefs and re-bushing the small end on the rod is minimal. Just talk to your machine shop that will do the work. If you're not going with the M47 crank then just change your pistons with minimal modifications and call it a day.

You definitely have to do your math!!

Here is an old post of mine I found with the math done for you. Just double check it and make sure I did it right!

M3 pistons are all S50 in the Mahle catalog. But you need to refer to them as US or Euro.
 
Euro wrist pins are 21mm. US are 22mm.

86.0mm S50B30 US compression height 32.8mm
86.4mm S52B32 US compression height 31.0mm
S52 is based off the M52

86.0mm S50B30 Euro compression height 31.6mm
86.4mm S50B32 Euro compression height 32.3mm

No matter what, all need to be decked and pocketed for the valves as well as dished for desired compression.

I think the M44 head gasket will allow for the 86.4mm piston.

Desired Compression Height = Block height - (Stroke/2) - rod length -piston protrusion out of block
Using stock rods and M44 crank:
DCH= 212-(83.5/2) - 140 -.15
DCH= 212-(41.75)-140-.15
DCH=30.1mm

So you can use any piston of your choice as long as you make the CH 30.1mm So if you go with the US 3.2L 31mm/CH 86.4mm piston you only need to shave off .9mm, then dish it and cut the pockets for the valves. Simple!

Just to give you an idea....for my stroker I used 3.0L US pistons and 138mm rods. I spoke with TEP racing when I was considering going with JE pistons and they said that even a 28.15mm CH was ok. NOW that is with a custom piston and stock rods at 140mm on a M47 crank. It all depends on how much meat you have at the top of the piston.

Compression Height of Stock S50 Piston is 32.8mm with Honda 1.8L VTEC B18C (GSR) 138mm rod

Desired Compression Height = Block height - (Stroke/2) - rod length
Desired Compression Height =212mm - (88mm/2) - ((138mm[Honda rod] - .15mm{protruding out of block}))
Desired Compression Height =212mm - 44mm - 137.85mm
Desired Compression Height =*30.15mm
The DCH is a desirable height.
30.15mm = 212mm - (88mm/2) - 138mm -.15mm*
This tells you that your target compression height is 30.15mm and we have enough meat to shave off 2.65mm from the 32.8mm :-P
Rod needs small end bushing to be drilled to fit 22mm S50 pin.

Again.....do all your math first and then buy your parts. Or use what you have and make it work. BUT I would never deck the head to make up any kind of distance when you have so many other variables such as the HG and pistons and rods. Just my .02

Cheers,
~Ralph

Hello Gruppe,

Is there anyone looking for a parts car? It could be a restoration project as well. Many new parts on the car. I"m not looking to part it out myself hence the reason for the sale of the car.

Please PM me if interested...

Cheers,
~Ralph

I agree with what everyone is saying so I'll add a little more....

Norm, why don't you just buy mine? LOL

So here's my rundown....
Crank...definitely do the M47... no question
Pistons....go for the US S50 because they are cast not forged. Forged will be slapping around your cylinders until they are warm up in street motor. If your machine shop is good, then there is no issue with giving you the exact compression you want. By the way...What compression do you want?Also..going with S50 86mm pistons let you use the M44 1.9L HG. Not sure that the S52 86.4mm piston will fit without modifying the HG or going cometic HG in which case you will need to go ARP studs.
Connecting rods...GSR B18C 138mm rods...choose whatever aftermarket company you want
Cams...I can hook you up with my guy out in Cali that made mine with less duration 250* but more aggressive all around compared to MM and Schrick equivalent
Engine Management...you could go with a stand alone or... go see Barrie or Mark
LWF....M20..make it any weight you want and you'll never have any issues...mine is 11-12#'s , Clutch kit is a stock E30 325
I used stock bearings on my build.
Port the head. Add 6mm valves with some S50 33mm cam buckets and beehive springs.
Ditch the AFM and run MAP or A-N or a blend. You can ditch the ICV too.
Now you need a custom header thats slightly larger than stock with a custom transition piece to mate up with the E30M3 dual pipe exhaust!
The only thing I didn't mention was the ITB's which are a must to make this all work....LOL
When all is said and done, you'll have my engine and drive-train in your car

Don't forget about the E30M3 diff to handle all that new torque which will last you forever...

You could always go with slide throttles as well with the custom intake plenum to make the engine really scream...PS I have one of those too...ssshhhh

So when you're done building all that, you won't need the E30M3 anymore... You'll have that and some E36M3 in your motor as well! And if your good with resin and plastics you can make the E46 intake plenum fit as well.

That congfig should yield you 2045cc. If you can get 205HP then thats 100HP/L which is very respectable.

Heading out to tune my car right now....

Cheers,
~Ralph

Thanks Dave....

~Ralph

Barrie is a list member here and yes I have had correspondence with him in the past on tuning. I believe he is in Ottawa? That's even closer to you...just a hop, skip and a jump! LOL

Check out Mark D'Sylva too...he's in Toronto and is a list member as well.
 http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/

When I mentioned doing your own head that was to save you money. The performance head is not a problem with a stroker.  Even on a stock motor it's ok as long as you don't port it too heavily because then you'll lose the low end. Here's the secret.....shhh...The power is in the head!

I don't know of any kit out there for the M42 stroker motor.

I'm sure the M44 crank is probably way cheaper to get your hands on, but I'm not sure what is involved in making it work. The M47 crank is minimal work: cut the snout down to fit the crank gear, new crank bolt and spacer plus adding a second keyway. Pretty straight forward, just added labor. The difference is the stroke which I think is 83.5mm for the M44 and 88mm for the M47. You can also lighten the crank by having the counterweights cut, well.....that's what I did since the M47 is a few lbs heavier than the stock crank.

If you're getting bored just stop me....

No question is ever dumb if you can learn something from it The cams are really up to you.  In my opinion if it's a street motor I wouldn't go too radical because you want your power band to be spread out over the rev range. Big cams can make big power for the dyno sheet but it will be in the upper end of the rev range and minimal down low which is great for the track but "eh" for the street. The smaller but still aggressive cams can make great power but usually over the entire rev range. There is more to a cam then just duration. You also have to think about lift. The Schrick 256* set up is based for the stock motor. I'm sure it wakes that motor up quite well. I never had the chance to just do cams and see what it was like. I chose the 250/250 on the recommendation of a tuner that designed those cams for my stroker with 10.8 compression. Not over the top but more aggressive than the Schricks and great for all around street driving and power up to 7,500 rpm. But some little birdie told me that I could probably get 8,000 rpm out of my motor. 
Just an aside.... all cams are different in feel. I had a set of 284/276 Schricks for my E30M3. The power was great, it pulled hard, and you knew definitively when the cams kicked in. It was like having an on/off switch. My description of that would be "raw power" which was intense but great. I switched to a Dbilas 296 with the Schrick 284 and what a difference! The power was more linear and you couldn't feel the "on/off" cam feeling. Then I went to 302/296 and it's the same linear feeling. Very deceiving! LOL.  I only give these examples because I've learned a lot over the years with trial and error and what better way than with the S14   So....driving with my M42 stroker now and not even completely tuned, I have that same feeling of "sneaky" linear power. It's definitely very deceiving until you look at the speedometer. LOL Personally, for an every day driver, it's the way to go for me.

The diff....I know some on here run the 3.73 on a stock motor. Great for highway MPG, less revs on the motor but the acceleration takes a lil bit more umpf to get going. If you were to find a close ratio transmission, then that would probably be an intense ride but the better option at that point might be a 3.46  I personally have the MM trans with an E30M3 4.10 and hitting 60+mph in second is not a problem. It's really your choice again of how you'll be driving the car. Some also run the 4.27 with lots of grunt down low but your top end cruising might be like a '73 2002 M10 motor with a 4 speed and 3.45 diff wishing you had the 5 speed conversion...Hahaha  The diff really depends on your motor build and your transmission. It's the easiest to swap and see what you really like according to your driving habits.

Bored yet?......

Intake....Well......we all know what everyone wants with this topic! You can pretty much take any ITB set up and retro fit it on the car if you have time and money. My next motor will either have 45mm slide throttles or S54 ITB's on it. If MM can get 205HP out of the stock TB then....who knows what ITB's will do on a stroker. I know that Dbilas claims 19-20HP for their ITB's and tuning. I'm sure that's pretty accurate once you start adjusting fuel and timing. But that doesn't mean take all claimed HP gains from all your bolt ons and that's your new HP number...NOT! Chipping the car alone can net you 12-15HP on a stock motor. You need to really talk with Mark or Barrie and have a game plan because they will give you real world numbers.

Spend as much as you can but save a bunch for tuning since that is going to make the whole difference. There is nothing like having expert tuners like Mark or Barrie getting you as much power as possible and safely. Another aside....my tuner for my S14 found an additional 8HP at the wheels by adjusting the angle of my throttle plates! How cool is that.....

Having fun yet?!

Cheers,
~Ralph

Ok that sounds more like it. So now you should measure the piston itself and find that you are probably at 86mm which is a 3.0L piston which is correct for the 32.8mm CH. Glad you measured again to get it straight so you have peace of mind.

Just another thing to think about......This list is not only for sharing information with each other but it's also about helping each other out. If you needed a specific part and couldn't get it by you, any one of many people would have helped you get what you needed here in the US I'm sure. I will say that I would have helped you get whatever parts you needed and shipped them. That's what a community is about no matter what the distance or how many ponds we have to cross  

Let us know....It looks like its gonna be great!!

Cheers,
~Ralph