M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine management => Topic started by: Avtovaz on October 19, 2009, 05:22:20 PM
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Has anyone on here done that yet?
Im interested, but i havnt a clue when it comes to real technical things.
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then dont do it. no need.
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so, whats the best way to get the best out of your motor?
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You're going to have a real PITA getting that Bosch IAC motor to work with MegaSquirt. I'd avoid it unless you're turbocharging the motor...if you're keeping it stock the Motronic is already tuned pretty well...get a tuner chip instead.
Check all the little stuff too. Make sure the sensors all work as they should. Invest in handling & brakes first, then some driving school time, THEN worry about more power.
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Turbo+MegaS = Good Power
Start reading the mega Squirt manual befor you purchase
good luck!
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Invest in handling & brakes first, then some driving school time, THEN worry about more power.
While I agree that most people don't realize just how amazingly the E30s handle with a nice suspension setup, some people just like to mod the hell out of their car; which most likely will never see a race track. If you're never going to track the car, there's really no point in going to a driving school.
ULTIMATELY, telling people what you think is the most logical thing to do with their car is a waste of your time.
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While I agree that most people don't realize just how amazingly the E30s handle with a nice suspension setup, some people just like to mod the hell out of their car; which most likely will never see a race track. If you're never going to track the car, there's really no point in going to a driving school.
ULTIMATELY, telling people what you think is the most logical thing to do with their car is a waste of your time.
Point taken, but I must disagree. Track time is fun, but the pleasure I find in everyday driving is definitely enhanced by a few techniques I picked up from racing amateurs.
Advice is free, leave it at that. Or perhaps you meant to say that helping out on the board so that other BMW owners may enjoy their cars is a waste of my time?
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I agree with Dave, if it weren't for some people "wasting" their time my car would be non-functional. One of the main factors in keeping this forum going, or any for that matter, is people sharing information and ideas, even if these ideas are not logical.
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While I agree that most people don't realize just how amazingly the E30s handle with a nice suspension setup, some people just like to mod the hell out of their car; which most likely will never see a race track. If you're never going to track the car, there's really no point in going to a driving school.
ULTIMATELY, telling people what you think is the most logical thing to do with their car is a waste of your time.
Thats because theres no fun roads in the 94535. Come out to the 94901 and I'll show you around.
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Point taken, but I must disagree. Track time is fun, but the pleasure I find in everyday driving is definitely enhanced by a few techniques I picked up from racing amateurs.
Advice is free, leave it at that. Or perhaps you meant to say that helping out on the board so that other BMW owners may enjoy their cars is a waste of my time?
sorry if i sounded hostile... just re-read my own post.
Might be my somewhat young age, but when i start driving like i'm on a race track i feel like i'm probably breaking the law.
as for 94901, I'm hoping to get my suspension setup soon and start seeing more of the west coast. Car will be paid for in december and all my checks after that will go towards suspension and my turbo motor (which is torn down, waiting for new pistons, bearings, etc.) E-3 paychecks are really small tho, gotta get some TDY money in my pocket ;)
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...but when i start driving like i'm on a race track i feel like i'm probably breaking the law.
Might be my somewhat middle age, but I drive like I'm on a race track all the time...I'm just very careful about the places I choose to drive quickly. Either that, or I THINK it's really fast...you know how hard it can be to keep a 318 really moving sometimes.
Come to think of it, taking a difficult corner really well even at pretty slow speeds is an art. I still rarely get them perfectly, but this car makes it so much fun just to keep trying.
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How about those that do know megasquort? Any benefits over a chip?
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Megasquirting an M42 which already has EFI would be so much easier. All the wiring is already in place. This is a 325 but you get the picture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pBSnEswoY8
You can assemble the MS board into a spare BMW computer case with the bmw plug. The DME pins are already mapped out.
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Check all the little stuff too. Make sure the sensors all work as they should. Invest in handling & brakes first, then some driving school time, THEN worry about more power.
Hmm, my last car was this
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20lada/4AGE/DSC00061%20(Small).JPG)
It had a c20xe motor in it at the end.
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20lada/Xe/Picture5%20479%20(Small).jpg)
Pic of the lada in action!
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20lada/Untitled-2.jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20lada/n599033131_383259_8186.jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20lada/n599033131_383260_8427.jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20lada/n599033131_383261_8611.jpg)
I was hoping to get the m42 running on megasquirt as later on i planned to get it up on throttle bodies of a m3...
(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/5400/image023smallyy4.jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20BMW/Compact%20(Custom).jpg)
car now looks like this
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20BMW/Image0022%20(Custom).jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20BMW/Image0027%20(Custom).jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20BMW/Image0060%20(Custom).jpg)
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20BMW/Image0207%20(Custom).jpg)
maybe not the best bmw in t he world, but its getting there! ;))))))))))))
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i rescued my vert from a similar state of affairs.
looking good so far, man, keep it up.
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Hmm, my last car was this
(http://www.avto.co.uk/My%20BMW/Image0207%20(Custom).jpg)
I like very much the strut-bar. Any ideea who's making it and if they have one available for E36 M42s?
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I always had a soft spot for the e36 compact. Nice little car...essentially an e30 with a few e36 goodies tossed in. Does anyone know how much heavier the e36/5 is than the facelift e30 318i?
**edit**
A '95 e36/5 is 77 pounds heavier than my e30 M42 sedan and only 132 more than a 318iS.
M42 e30 curb weights here (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-188490.html): 2657 lbs (318i) 2602 lbs (318is). This Motor Trend review (http://www.m42club.com/forums/this%20Motor%20Trend%20review) quotes the 318ti as having a 2734 pound curb weight. I wonder how much (removable) insulation those Compacts have? The only real issue I had looking for one was scarcity...and cost. They're a cult favorite, especially the Club Sports, and their prices are fairly high. Interior parts might be problematic too.
Anyone on the board have one? Just curious about driving impressions, etc.
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I passed up a ti, as we're trying to buy a house, but for 2k, and with the (mini) mighty m4x, I wish I hadn't. That car is an extension of the reason our engines are great. It's light, nimble, etc.
+1 for suspension. Bimmers are razors in the twistys and it's easy to forget how badly mileage beats on suspension. Refresh, rebuild, CHIP IT and enjoy. If you still need more - go boost or stroker. Properly done, 30-40% more power is easily achievable. Plenty of info here, and in a pdf from metric mechanics.
Metric Mechanics PDF (http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metric-mechanic-m42-and-m44-engine-booklet.pdf)
If you've got about $9000, they have exactly what you want...
Look at some of the turbo build threads. Lots of them use MS. It could be tuned for NA, but the motronic does a damn good job, and getting better than that would be tricky. Member Tglaze used to build plug-n-play megasquirt setups, but you need a lot of leg work to get results from any aftermarket ecu.
Good luck with your project, I hope you enjoy the road ahead, it's really rewarding. (especially if it has some curves)
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DesktopDave, I was just digging through some BF.c threads, and found one that mentioned the ti derogatorily. One member had one, and loved the handling in particular. Nimble, but also gets sideways if you want it to. The one complaint was the dash. Apparently they are somewhat spartan by comparison to other e36 cars? The closest I came to one was wishful thinking about timing, and a craigslist bookmark...
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The Ti isn't for everyone...it was typically sold as the budget BMW, and it's a bit bastardized as well. That's what I admire most about it.
I don't think an e36 dash would be difficult to transplant into the Ti. The HVAC is different too - manual with single heat in the Ti - auto with dual heat in the rest of the line. But the e36 carries a 500 pound weight penalty along with that nice dash. I'll pass.
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Well, to answer the original question, I have a ms2 system on my m42 and as of yesterday it runs as well as I can get it to with no more upgrades and only egt and a wideband to tune with. I went to a map sensor setup but I have a mustang maf sensor to go in with it for dual metering after I turbo my car. The install took about 45 minutes to get it running the car with the auto learn mode, but please remember this was about the 5th car I did myself. The harness of the stock car can be left in place if you want, but I ran a spare megasquirt harness over my unplugged stock harness because this is a car being used for me to learn about modding bmw e30's. I had to change some variables in the program to get the correct readings from some BMW sensors because the MS code is programmed to handle GM sensors from the manufacturer. The best thing about the install is the ability to use the factory sensors for timing pickup off the crank. This keeps you from needing EDIS4 off a ford for ignition which frankly sort of sucks because you can't tune it per se. I come from Nissan land, where the skyline rb20, 25, and 26 are hard as crap to hook up because of their Cam Angle Sensor not working with MS.
Anyway, to sum it up the MS is super easy to install and tune with only a wideband O2 sensor for knowing your AFR's. It can give you immediate increases in performance and reliability but merely installing it and from there it is very easy to take the upgrades and options even further. I ordered megasquirt 3 today and I am putting it on this car to get my turbo swap powered up.
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I knew if we all chatted about the weather and such long enough, someone would come along with a proper answer. Good info.
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LOL!
I'd do it myself but I'm a really lazy SOB. I have an MS 2.2 sitting in my basement waiting for me to figure out a crank sensor for my Honda Sabre. This makes me think I'd like to put it on the M42 instead...
Can anyone post their maps? What are they, msq files?
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That's a really good point. Some rough tunes from similar builds would make the learning curve much less challenging. Perhaps we could have a post your maps thread?
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I can do that in a couple of days. I have a decent map of a running factory tune somewhere, but this car isn't quite stock. I have a map sensor running it right now, a diifferent intake to the tb and I have a maf in there to program in when ms3 arrives. I am gonna be making it back nearly stock friday if I have time so I can drive it to charleston for the holiday this weekend; I can reflash ms2 on the board and get a base tune then if I can find a working afm. Mine works okay at idle and WOT, thats about all. Doesn't seem to bother the stock motronic too much but my ms2extra attempt didn't like it.
On a different note, I would recommend reading just about all of the mega-squirt 1,2, and 3 documentation, some info regarding types of timing and ignition systems and sensors, and do a bunch of studying on the forums dedicated to these systems before even thinking about buying and installing one. For some people, having a standalone engine management system is simply way too much stuff in a car for daily need. I have found myself stranded on the side of the road miles from cell phone signal multiple times in cars with a lot of mods because of issues I could never foresee happening. Sometimes, I have spent hours just trying things to get my car running right again because of both mega-squirt and other standalones causing the strangest problems. It can be a blessing and a nightmare, but a well maintained car with certain accessories to help cool and lubricate better along with a nice ecu system can be way better in every way than the oem setup.
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Oh the files are msq and vex files. I found a program to use for making vex files by way of existing bin files from factory ecus, but it isn't reliable. I learned enough about calculating spark events and stoichiometry of gas in like 4 hours to know enough about how to set up the system for my application. EGT sensor with O2 reading is the best tools to "butt-tune" with. It's very nice if you know enough about your engine's volumetric properties to do some math.
I use megatune and will soon be switching to tunerstudio for mega-squirt 3 for tuning purposes.
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I am FINALLY starting to assemble ms3. I need a ms3x board and I missed buying one of the first batch, so I have been lazy. I have only driven my car once since I got the ms2 in it and I had an expired tag.
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If anybody need's the stock maps from the m42 I don't mind sharing... cheers!
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I will also have my MS up and running shortly. Jordan on the list was nice enough to share his file with me and I'm willing to do the same. I will also tune and then dyno the stroker with cams and Alpha-N to get some real numbers. Everyone is welcome to that tune as well.
Cheers,
~Ralph
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I'm also considering to go for MS....
My engine is currently running the M42 from the E36 318ti, with automatic transmission and EWS. And it has to have the autobox DME plugged in to run.... And getting the chip for the engine DME is not so easy...
Now running on SMT6 piggyback but not so ideal as I wanted to raise the revcut from the current 6,700rpm to maybe 7,400rpm...
It'll be good to hear from those who have installed MS standalone in an NA M42...
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wow i had forgotten all about this thread!
With my engine, its a factory m42 out of an early e36, im a lot further down the line with it now!
Its good, but it has no low down power, and its rev limiter is set to low down too imho. Im looking at installing some piper reprofiled cams, i am not sure what to use yet, im asking the dealer to suggest for me, but this will only give say 10-15 brake.
My car is a road rally car here in the Uk, the rules say the motor has to be 4 cylinder, if its 16v then it has to keep the standard inlet, although i do plan to make the throttle flap bigger, and forced induction is banned.
What i would like to do is install megasquirt, and as i have no idea about how to set it up and aparently the problem with megasquirt from a rolling road point of view is that you have to set every last bit up as compaired with say a DTA system that just needs mapping and tweeking, i want to get a base map that i can run my motor with first.
So, can i do this with the help of you kind persons on here?
thankyou!
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You can map MS on the road very easily. Scroll down to "VE analyze live".
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/
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If i was to buy a ms system, which is best to get and exactly what do i need to get?
I am planning on using the standard loom and making a plug to the cars loom. So if i do this i will be able to download a map from someone here and get the car running?
thanks
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I've megasquirted 2 mercedes so far, one with MS1 and one with MS2. For the M42 I would use a V3 board with MS2 daughter board. It will work with all the hardware you already have on the car such as the crank/cam sensors, temp sensors, coil on plug ignition and sequential fuel injection. The main advantages of MS3 is that it can do sequential fuel injection for up to 8 cyls and it has an SD card slot. Otherwise both MS2 and MS3 have 2 16x16 fuel tables, same processor speed, etc.
Scroll down.
http://www.msextra.com/feature-xref.html
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Dammit, now I am sort of wanting to do this again...
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If anybody need's the stock maps from the m42 I don't mind sharing... cheers!
Do you have the stock ignition table for our M42's?
I would really appreciate it if you had a screen grab or similar of the ignition table.
Matt
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I am running MS2e with great success on my 318is. Ran it NA for maybe 10 months and about 3 track events; definitely had some benefits over the stock motronic, as it could compensate for the different intake, injectors, exhaust, etc. Also got me 1-2 mpg higher mileage under most conditions once I got the tune right. Still working on getting the tune with the turbo perfect, but it isn't bad.
BMKIWI, I would post screenshots, but the ignition table that I am using is a little, ahem, unique. when I was going about getting my initial timing values and crank sensor placement, the values corresponding to the actual position of the sensor literally did not work. So I'm running a best guess of crank position, with the ignition tuned based on that. As such, all of my values would be off by some constant factor...
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I am running MS2e with great success on my 318is. Ran it NA for maybe 10 months and about 3 track events; definitely had some benefits over the stock motronic, as it could compensate for the different intake, injectors, exhaust, etc. Also got me 1-2 mpg higher mileage under most conditions once I got the tune right. Still working on getting the tune with the turbo perfect, but it isn't bad.
BMKIWI, I would post screenshots, but the ignition table that I am using is a little, ahem, unique. when I was going about getting my initial timing values and crank sensor placement, the values corresponding to the actual position of the sensor literally did not work. So I'm running a best guess of crank position, with the ignition tuned based on that. As such, all of my values would be off by some constant factor...
Thanks gearheade30. Sounds like you have a turbo setup where i have an ITB set up on a Link ecu, not megesquirt. So its more than likely to be different in a number of ways!
I intend to set up a safe base ignition map for basic running and tuning however if there was snap shot of a factory ignition table out there it would really help determine if my guesses are any good.
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hi has anyone done a megasquirt install on an e30 318is???
I want to kep the original wiring, i have built the ecu but stuck on getting it to work on the car. i am not getting a crank signal.
someone please help!!!!!!!!!!
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Did anyone have a M42 base file for the stock M42 engine? i got the kdfi v1.4 (Plug and Play)
i also got Tunerstudio mit VE Live Tuning but my car is not drivable at the moment
would be awesome!