M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: iamcreepingdeath on September 10, 2009, 07:37:41 PM
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UPDATE PAGE 6
ok guys here goes:
So i have been having cooling problems for a while now with my 318is, i replaced the mechanical fan with a volvo fan, and that helped, but up until now, i have been running without a thermostat.
So i put in the thermostat today, and after alot of revving the engine and putting coolant in, i got it to work, sort of.
My question is, with the 88 degree T-stat that i got from Pelican Parts, is the temp gauge supposed to be between the halfway and 3/4 mark? that seems a bit high, since when i first bought the car, the gauge stayed a little below the halfway mark.
Also, i had major issues getting the coolant to flow again. Was i doing it wrong? i had the car on a slight incline, and i filled the reservoir, and as i revved, coolant came bubbling and overflowing and spurting out of the reservoir (cap off of course.) so i capped it, and then opened the bleed valve. Nothing but steam came out for the longest time, and then i killed the engine, and removed the bleeder valve completely. Steam came out for a long time until the pressure finally subsided.
Then the reservoir was empty, so i filled it, closed the cap, and ran it again. Then as i started to unscrew the cap, i could see the water level shooting up as the cap relieved pressure.
So anyway sorry for the essay i can never seem to keep these things short, but was i doing it all wrong? what is the step by step process to re-filling coolant once the T-stat has been replaced?
thanks a bunch guys!
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No. Over half is too hot period.
You should have a bleeder screw on your expansion tank next to the filler cap.
***Warning***
These bleeder screws snap very easily. They strip easily too if your screw driver is too small.
Now, fill it to the KALT line, close the cap, let it get to operating temp and crack the bleeder. When it starts pushing fluid, hopefully that should be the end. Close it gently. Come back when you can open the cap. Check the level. If it is too low, repeat. Once completed, drive spiritedly and monitor the temp. You should be good to go.
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No. Over half is too hot period.
You should have a bleeder screw on your expansion tank next to the filler cap.
***Warning***
These bleeder screws snap very easily. They strip easily too if your screw driver is too small.
Now, fill it to the KALT line, close the cap, let it get to operating temp and crack the bleeder. When it starts pushing fluid, hopefully that should be the end. Close it gently. Come back when you can open the cap. Check the level. If it is too low, repeat. Once completed, drive spiritedly and monitor the temp. You should be good to go.
but while i do this of course i have to have the car on an incline, right?
but why would my car run consistently at a little over half? if my coolant wasn't bled, wouldn't it be shooting up to the red when the sensor hits an air pocket?
but i will go out and do this right now.
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OK i need some help!!! the same dang thing is now happening with my car that happened last time i tried to put in a new thermostat.
the reason i was running thermostatless in the first place was because the last time i put in a brand new T-stat the car overheated and the lower coolant pipe (from the T-stat housing to bottom of radiator) never warmed up, it was stone cold. When i took the T-stat out then everything was fine, the car ran on the cold side obviously, but there was coolant flow as all coolant pipes were warm.
Now the same thing is happening AGAIN! the car heats up to 3/4 the way to hot and the lower coolant hose is STONE COLD. I do not understand this at all.
OK obviously it can't be a bad radiator, because when there is no T-stat both hoses are warm, and with this new T-stat in, i can squeeze one pipe and feel the coolant pressure build up in the other pipe, so there is flow across the radiator.
So the only logical conclusion is that the T-stat is closed!! how can this be??? its the second brand new T-stat i have installed! I know i have it in correctly, because i consulted the RealOEM diagram.
The one thing i noticed is that there is no air escape hole in either of the new T-stats. Is this normal? if so, what else could it be???? help!!!
EDIT: oh and the heat does work, and when i drive around with the heat blasting the temp gauge is at the 1/2 mark, and when i turn off the heat it goes to the 3/4 mark.
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Add a 50-50 mixture of coolant and water into the radiator until it reaches the cold like. Turn the key so the car is on, but the engine is not running. Put the heat on full hot. The valve should open the fluid will empty from the expansion tank. Add some more.
Take the bleed screw out. It is right next to the expansion radiator tank opening. With the car running, keep adding coolant until it starts to run out of the radiator bubble free.
This Method comes from ZOSO in the how-to section. Try this, it worked best for me.
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I think the radiator is full already, but i can try that. i'll be right back.
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OK here is the scoop:
Did what Murdul said, went for a drive, and here is the situation: the bleeder valve only bleeds coolant, the reservoir stays at a constant level, i can see coolant squirting into it as i rev it up, and after a drive, when the temp gauge reached the 3/4 mark, i noticed the lower coolant hose got hot, so apparently the T-stat opened.
It looks like the T-stat i have keeps the engine between 1/2 and 3/4 mark, usually closer the the 3/4 mark. BUT this was the 88 degree T-stat from Pelican!! shouldn't that be the cooler T-stat that keeps the temp below 1/2 mark??
it was the cheapest T-stat available, is it possible that this and the other one is a bad T-stat??
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When there is an air pocket where the coolant gage sending unit is the temp will drop because there is no coolant getting to to heat it up.
The spring side of the T-stat should go to the hot side. So coolant will just circulate around the engine and heater until it gets hot enough to make the spring open the tstat then coolant will be drawn into the waterpump from the radiator.
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When there is an air pocket where the coolant gage sending unit is the temp will drop because there is no coolant getting to to heat it up.
actually, when there is an air pocket the temp gauge shoots up, not down. Air in the coolant system has a much higher temperature than the water, but has a lower specific heat.
The spring side of the T-stat should go to the hot side. So coolant will just circulate around the engine and heater until it gets hot enough to make the spring open the tstat then coolant will be drawn into the waterpump from the radiator.
these things i know. The T-stat is installed correctly in the car (as far as i know). But the point is, the T-stat won't open until the temp gauge is nearly at the 3/4 position, which is way too hot. The T-stat is supposed to open when the temp reached the 1/2 position.
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Your coolant temp sender for your guage is not meant to be an accurate measuring device. It's not like the coolant temp sensor that IS meant to be accurate. Your's may be way off. It's just a resistor that lowers in resistance as the coolant gets hotter. Less resistance lets more current flow so the guage needle goes further up the scale.
You may just need to replace your temp sender.
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Your coolant temp sender for your guage is not meant to be an accurate measuring device. It's not like the coolant temp sensor that IS meant to be accurate. Your's may be way off. It's just a resistor that lowers in resistance as the coolant gets hotter. Less resistance lets more current flow so the guage needle goes further up the scale.
You may just need to replace your temp sender.
that could be true, but it seems to work all right, as it showed 1/4 temp when there was no T-stat, and before it started overheating like a few months ago that caused this mess, it used to read consistently a little below half. What part number is the temp sender?
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If one hose is hot and the other is cold, you have bled the system, i am going with faulty T-Stat
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If one hose is hot and the other is cold, you have bled the system, i am going with faulty T-Stat
right, but continue reading, it turns out the lower hose gets hot when the engine temp hits the 3/4 mark, hence the T-stat must be opening at that point, and the final question at this point is: why does the T-stat open so late? shouldn't it open when the temp gauge is at 1/2?
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right, but continue reading, it turns out the lower hose gets hot when the engine temp hits the 3/4 mark, hence the T-stat must be opening at that point, and the final question at this point is: why does the T-stat open so late? shouldn't it open when the temp gauge is at 1/2?
Sorry, jumped the gun.
Now the T-Stat could still be faulty, or your temp gauge is faulty. The best two attempts to remedy this IMO would be to borrow an infrared temp gun to test it, or hook up an aux gauge and see what reading you get.
Or you could do what I hate (electrical) get the values for the temp sensor and check the resistance periodically as the temp changes to see if it falls within the parameters allowed.
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Sorry, jumped the gun.
Now the T-Stat could still be faulty, or your temp gauge is faulty. The best two attempts to remedy this IMO would be to borrow an infrared temp gun to test it, or hook up an aux gauge and see what reading you get.
Or you could do what I hate (electrical) get the values for the temp sensor and check the resistance periodically as the temp changes to see if it falls within the parameters allowed.
hmmm... that sounds pretty complex. I do have another brand new T-stat, i stuck it in a pot of water and heated it up, and it opened at around 90 degrees or so, so i know that one works, i am going to drill a small air bleed hole in it and swap it out with the T-stat that is in the car and see if anything changes.
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I can try to help you. The needle should always been left of noon. I have all the stock components and no fan clutch. I did install a new electric fan, but on the other side of the radiator, in front of the ac condenser. Using the aux fan system, it will turn on when it is suppose to and cool the engine.
Firts thing is to make sure your coolant sensor it correct or just get a new one. Not too expensive. Then you need to make sure you are getting coolant following correctly.
Once you check the sensor, you can then look at the flow issue. Also the bleeding process is off from what I read. The incline is correct, but the cap should always stay off, and only the bleed screw touched.
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I can try to help you. The needle should always been left of noon. I have all the stock components and no fan clutch. I did install a new electric fan, but on the other side of the radiator, in front of the ac condenser. Using the aux fan system, it will turn on when it is suppose to and cool the engine.
Firts thing is to make sure your coolant sensor it correct or just get a new one. Not too expensive. Then you need to make sure you are getting coolant following correctly.
Once you check the sensor, you can then look at the flow issue. Also the bleeding process is off from what I read. The incline is correct, but the cap should always stay off, and only the bleed screw touched.
so what you are saying is that the whole bleeding process is carried out with the coolant cap off?
and where do i get a temp sensor? i couldn't find one on Pelican Parts.
Also, the coolant appears foamy now after taking a long trip. And during the trip, there were two times when my temp gauge bounced way into the red, which would appear to be an air bubble, but only coolant comes out of the bleeder valve...
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ok i took my other brand new T-stat, drilled an air bleeder hole in it, and installed it. Same thing happening, no change at all, car runs at 3/4 temp, and the lower coolant hose stays stone cold for a long time and then finally heats up after the temp has been at 3/4 for some time.
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so i read the article on coolant flushing on Pelican Parts, and it seems that tap water is bad, and Red Line water wetter is good.
So i drained all my coolant from both the rad and the engine block, and re filled it with fresh 50/50 mix of coolant and distilled water, and a bottle of water wetter.
So now the temp gauge doesn't bounce anymore which is good, but the temp gauge reads at the same spot: between 1/2 and 3/4. This was quite perplexing.
So i decided to determine how hot the coolant really was, so with the car running at full heat (3/4 temp gauge) i stuck a meat thermometer in the reservoir, and sure enough, it read exactly at 90 degrees C. Since the T-stat is 88 degree, then it would make sense that the hot coolant coming into the reservoir would be a little hotter, as the thermostat sits where the lower (cooler) rad hose empties into the engine.
So what do you guys make of this? why would the temp gauge be reading at 3/4??
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From your last post, the guage itself or sensor could be bad. Only way to check is to test sensor. You just need to have the values to compare the resistance according to the temp reading. I haven't done this on my car, but figure there is a way. Just might be in the Bentley or some manual.
Good on using the coolant and distilled water. Only way to go. To take it up a notch, the coolant used also matters, but for longevity of engine, not cooling properties.
Once the t-stat opens, hot coolant should flow through the only hose on the passenger side of the car. Is this happening?
How is your fan clutch?
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yeah the hose on the pass side of the car (the lower hose) doesnt get warm for a long time, until the temp gauge reaches the 3/4 mark. so that means the T-stat must onlt be opening when the temp gauge is at the 3/4 mark.
Oh and i don't have a fan clutch, i am running and elecric Volvo puller fan, it kicks way more ass than the stock mechanical fan.
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that is good. So looks like you just have a bad sensor or the gauge is messed up. I have heard that the nut behind the gauge can get loose and cause a bad contact, but you would have to remove cluster to check. Also the ground strap from the valve cover to body if the car has one, can be another thing to look at.
the temp sensor is part # 13621709966. Pelican has 2 options for under $20....http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&description=13621709966&I1.x=18&I1.y=7&FILTER_TECH=ON&FILTER_SUPP=ON&FILTER_ACCE=ON&FILTER_CARE=ON&FILTER_STUF=ON&FILTER_PERF=ON&FILTER_MISC=ON&FILTER_GADG=ON&FILTER_TOOL=ON&FILTER_ABMW=ON&FILTER_BE21=ON&FILTER_BE30=ON&FILTER_BE36=ON&FILTER_BE46=ON&FILTER_BE12=ON&FILTER_BE28=ON&FILTER_BE34=ON&FILTER_BE39=ON&FILTER_BE7S=ON&FILTER_BEZ3=ON&FILTER_BE68=ON&FILTER_BE02=ON&FILTER_BEMI=ON&FILTER_BEX5=ON&FILTER_BMWM=ON (http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&description=13621709966&I1.x=18&I1.y=7&FILTER_TECH=ON&FILTER_SUPP=ON&FILTER_ACCE=ON&FILTER_CARE=ON&FILTER_STUF=ON&FILTER_PERF=ON&FILTER_MISC=ON&FILTER_GADG=ON&FILTER_TOOL=ON&FILTER_ABMW=ON&FILTER_BE21=ON&FILTER_BE30=ON&FILTER_BE36=ON&FILTER_BE46=ON&FILTER_BE12=ON&FILTER_BE28=ON&FILTER_BE34=ON&FILTER_BE39=ON&FILTER_BE7S=ON&FILTER_BEZ3=ON&FILTER_BE68=ON&FILTER_BE02=ON&FILTER_BEMI=ON&FILTER_BEX5=ON&FILTER_BMWM=ON)
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^^ awesome thanks!! i am also thinking of getting a cheap universal temp sensor kit from like autozone that actually has the degrees C written on the gauge and wiring that in...
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i ordered a new water temp sender unit from Pelican, so i'll update this thread when i install it!
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Great and yes, let us know.
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id like to know also. mine does the exact same thing. new radiator, water pump, t stat. bled it forever.
im thinking its a combo of my gauge and temp sender as my needle bounces.
where is the temp sender unit located? id like to switch that out.
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anyone have a diagram or could tell me where the temp sender is? i think mine is faulty and giving me an elevated temp.
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i have no idea where it is, i am just going to try to find it. I imagine its in the engine block somewhere, maybe on the intake side.
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It is on the head under the intake. There are 2 plugs, one is oil pressure, the other coolant temp.
It is one of the 2 in the pink circle...
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine.jpg)
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It is on the head under the intake. There are 2 plugs, one is oil pressure, the other coolant temp.
It is one of the 2 in the pink circle...
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/318is/engine.jpg)
thanks. i wonder which one? anyway to figure out?
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Using the ETM, I looked it up, brown/green is oil, brown/violet is temp sensor. Hope that helps. You can always just unplug one. They are just sensors, which keep the temp guage dead is the right one.
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just unscrew one, if oil squirts out, its the oil pressure sensor. If coolant squirts out, its the coolant temp sensor.
But thanks, johnwoo, for the pic, until now, i didn't know where the sensor was located.
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just unscrew one, if oil squirts out, its the oil pressure sensor. If coolant squirts out, its the coolant temp sensor.
But thanks, johnwoo, for the pic, until now, i didn't know where the sensor was located.
o it was monty that posted the pic.
thanks for the pic and help monty
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Anytime guys. Learned alot while rebuilding the engine. Car was starting to over heat so I just decide to rebuild it before damage happened.
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Common occurance for the temp needle bouncing (besides a bad sending unit) is a loose nut on the back of the cluster that secures that gauge to the cluster. You have to reach in there and tighten the nut, which will and should stop the temp needle from boucing or twitching (this has been posted in a few temp gauge threads on here). If the gauge still twitches or bounces after that, then you need to replace the temp sending unit on the side of the head.
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yes, Monty, thanks for the pic, i just went up one post and saw the pic and thought it was john's.
so anyway, new development (again).
My water pump is now shot. I had thought a while back that it was going, because i would hear strange buzzing or rattling sounds from the pump area when i was re-filling the coolant, and then all of a sudden coolant started leaking out around the pump like crazy. So i ordered a new pump. I have my temp sending unit now, but installing it would do me no good before i get the new pump in, which gets here on Saturday. So i will definitely update this thread then.
Oh, and on the sensor location question, i think both those sensors are temp sensors. One for the DME and one for the gauge cluster. Check out this post in my other thread: http://www.m42club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=78534&postcount=22
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crap i just ordered all these parts and forgot to get the brown sensor. now im gonna get raped on shipping
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One sensor is oil and other coolant. I know this and many do as when if you swap them, the oil light stays on and the needle is dead. It happened to me when I installed everything after rebuilt. There is another coolant sensor the the computer I believe. Just can't remember where. Normally it is on the exhaust side of car, but for what you are troubleshooting, irrelevant.
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Hi, i am new on here my 92 e36 318is temp gauge is not working sum times it will stay just below hot when engine is cold or it will not even be on the scale. it seems its all or nuffink. i have replace temp sensor the 2nd 1 in the head i believe the first 1 closest to front of engine is for ecu, a complete engine flush and new coolant plus new thermostat and also replaced the cluster gauge with a second hand 1. and of course checked all the fuses. heaters blow hot air fine. how would i test the wires? its been like it since i brought the car about year ago. but its now annoying me!! any help would be great.
also have done the cluster check i have heard about when you hold the trip button and turn key to pos 1 and the gauges go to max and back to zero this worked including the temp gauge. looks cool but i am still stuck!!!
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One sensor is oil and other coolant. I know this and many do as when if you swap them, the oil light stays on and the needle is dead. It happened to me when I installed everything after rebuilt. There is another coolant sensor the the computer I believe. Just can't remember where. Normally it is on the exhaust side of car, but for what you are troubleshooting, irrelevant.
so its not a temp sensor but an oil sensor. what about that diagram from realoem where it says its a temp sensor, im confused.
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You are correct, I confused it with the one on the oil filter housing. I know the wire color is correct. One is for the ECU and the other for the temp gauge. Also in that position, wouldnt make sense that oil was running through there.
I just has a small lapse. Thanks for clearing it up.
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ok dudes, i installed the new water pump and new sensor, no change at all. Well, there is no more coolant leaking out, but still the same situation with the needle going almost to the 3/4 mark, and the really bad cold idle.
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ok dudes, i installed the new water pump and new sensor, no change at all. Well, there is no more coolant leaking out, but still the same situation with the needle going almost to the 3/4 mark, and the really bad cold idle.
did you change both of them?
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both sensors? no, just the one for the DME, not the one for the actual temp gauge. SO that is my next step, along with a Mustang O2 sensor.
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im thinking maybe your gauge is reading wrong.
i don't know about your weird idle maybe time for new icv. i still have to order the second sensor too the one located closer to the firewall.
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first is temp sensor, then is gauge, then is cluster. Besideds the sensor, I would try to get used parts to test. Also research if there is a way to test sensor. It should, you just need to know resistance range and how it relates to Celsius temps.
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i figured i'd just buy a new sensor, its only $6.50.
And guess how things are today:
its like 48 degrees F outside, so i was driving my car, and it was running at 3/4 temp, then after a little hard driving it started going into the red. I popped the hood and checked the lower passenger side coolant hose, stone cold. Then guess what else. After driving for a little while, the gauge settled on a tiny bit over 1/2 and stayed there ever since. Also the whole time, the radiator and lower passenger hose were stone cold. But the temp never went up to 3/4 again.
This is totally weird, i didn't even do anything to the car today. What the poop is going on?
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Do believe you sensor or gauge is off. If it is that cold outside, the temp of the engine but not be getting hot enough to open the thermostat and the top hose will stay close. But if you go by the guage it should. So my guess is guage or sensor.
Where are you located with that temp?
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Do believe you sensor or gauge is off. If it is that cold outside, the temp of the engine but not be getting hot enough to open the thermostat and the top hose will stay close. But if you go by the guage it should. So my guess is guage or sensor.
Where are you located with that temp?
i am in Colorado an hour north of Denver. Its freak weather actually, it was 80 like 3 days ago, its supposed to get up to 75 tomorrow.
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mine does this too. the lower radiator hose stays cold when my temp gauge reads 1/2. then after i flog it and warm it up the gauge will read a little past 1/2 -3/4 and eventually my hose will get warm.
so im thinking i have a faulty gauge or temps sensor reading hotter than it actually is. also my gauge does the dancing trick so my nut on the back is prolly loose. o well will do it all in one swoop.
i'll follow this thread to see how the other sensor effects things.
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ok dudes i put in the new temp sensor for the temp gauge, and what happened is now the temp gauge is much more steady and seems to stay consistently at a teeny bit above the halfway mark, which at this point is freaking good enough for me. as long as it stays there and does no jumping around, i'll be happy.
as of now, what i have done to my M42 cooling system is this:
-"Mess under the intake" delete mod
-New T-stat (twice)
-New T-stat aluminum housing w/ new gasket
-Mechanical fan delete with an electric Volvo fan
-New water pump w/ metal impeller
-Coolant flush (twice) with 50/50 coolant/distilled water and Redline water wetter
-New DME temp sensor
-New temp gauge sensor/sender for the gauge cluster
and by gosh darnit my M42 better have a working cooling system by now. If not, i am putting in an S50.
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thats awesome news, looks like mine is up next for the "mess under the intake" cleanup and the sensors swap. i've done t stat, radiator, waterpump. still have to do the volvo fan and the clutch fan delete
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Great news.
I noticed that if you give it a few more good bleedings, like 2 more, you can even have the needle before the 12 o'clock positons. Imagine, I live in south Florida and dont have a fan clutch. I only have a Spal fan in place of the aux fan. So only the fan turns on with either the AC on or the temp radiator switch hits 91 degrees. Yes in rush hour traffic, my needles moves around but never get to 3/4 as my fan turns on high and that baby moves, 10 times more that the stock aux fan.
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ok, so a question about bleeding: do i bleed the coolant with the cap on or off?
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Cap on is the way I do it .I keep the rpms up to around 1500 then open bleed screw with heat on high with car at operating temp till clear fluid comes out (no air bubbles) .
Keep a close eye on the needle . Take car for a spin and repeat.
I've done it this way at least a dozen times with no issues.
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per bpurcell website, which is the way I do it, and I believe the factory manual, you do it with the cap off. This way you can add more coolant mixture in the process after all the is spilling out the bleed screw. Last thing is to loose to much coolant and allow air back in.
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hmm.... i will try it with the cap off then.
But as far as everything being fixed, well, not so much.
Today it was like 85-90 degrees, and the temp gauge went almost all the way up to the 3/4 mark, and this happened while driving on the freeway at 80mph. I am seriously about to give up, i have replaced everything, i can't imagine why the temp would still be that high and unstable.
Also, the lower passenger coolant hose was just barely warm while the temp gauge was at 3/4. All i can think of is that the T-stat is just not doing its job.
what could it be??? i am about to ditch this M42 for something else, i am so frustrated.
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If your thermostat is acting up or you have air in the system it won't matter how fast you drive.................
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right, but its weird, this is the second new t-stat i put in, and i even drilled a hole in the top to allow air to bleed through if the T-stat is closed.
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Here is my .02. If you leave the cap off how will it build up pressure? Try running it with out the t-stat it is used for quick warm ups in cold weather anyway you cant hurt anything it's a process of elimination at this point. You could have a defective Water Pump the blade may not be sticking out far enough to reach into the journal port correctly for good water flow. Hope you fined the solution be for you yank that 42. You could also have a restricted return water line some where. GL
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I would suggest you re-bleed it. Also driving at that speed you have enough air to cool engine. So if temp is going up, do believe its air since you have new parts.
Also checked factory manual and it states for the M40 engine, same as M42, "Unscrew M 40 bleeder screw and wait until collan "without air bubbles" runs out. Keep adding coolant in expansion tank while bleeding. Only use specified coolant" Also states that revs should be at 2500 rpms.
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Also something that might be overlooked, the radiator. How is it? You can have it tested at a radiator shop.
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Here is my .02. If you leave the cap off how will it build up pressure? Try running it with out the t-stat it is used for quick warm ups in cold weather anyway you cant hurt anything it's a process of elimination at this point. You could have a defective Water Pump the blade may not be sticking out far enough to reach into the journal port correctly for good water flow. Hope you fined the solution be for you yank that 42. You could also have a restricted return water line some where. GL
I already put a new water pump in a few days ago. Also, i did run the car a long time without the T-stat and it just ran cold with the temp gauge at the 1/4 mark, so that makes me think the radiator does flow ok.
I would suggest you re-bleed it. Also driving at that speed you have enough air to cool engine. So if temp is going up, do believe its air since you have new parts.
Also checked factory manual and it states for the M40 engine, same as M42, "Unscrew M 40 bleeder screw and wait until collan "without air bubbles" runs out. Keep adding coolant in expansion tank while bleeding. Only use specified coolant" Also states that revs should be at 2500 rpms.
i will try to re-bleed, and this time add coolant as i bleed.
Also something that might be overlooked, the radiator. How is it? You can have it tested at a radiator shop.
I assume the radiator is ok because it ran cold without the t-stat, and both pipes would be warm, so it seemed like it was flowing, and i don't know what could have changed in the meantime.
The only way i see it now, is that the t-stat is restricting the flow so much that it runs hot. But i don't see how, since it is my 2nd brand new T-stat.
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Try the rebleed and you can alwasy test the t-stat in a pan of boiling water.
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Are you sure the thermostat is the correct way around? The temp sensor part should be facing the engine. If the temp gauge read way low with no thermostat and then you installed the thermostat then have over heating problems I'd say the problem is with the thermostat.
By the way, I drilled the hole in the thermostat and then squeezed the right side rad hoses as I filled and refilled the rad. Once the level wouldn't go down in the tank I closed it up and that was that. Added a bit of water in the next couple of days.
I'm driving the car to Houston next week for my daughter. I'll be passing through Cheyenne.
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yep, the t-stat is in there correctly.
I keep thinking it has to be a T-stat issue but it did this same exact thing with my other brand new t-stat, and i took that one out and tested it in a pot of water, and it opened at around 90 degrees C, just not very much. I am not sure how wide these things have to open. It opened enough for me to slide a butter knife through the opening.
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i vote for lower temp t stat and bleed the hell out of it. it took me 5-6 bleeds before i got all the air out. and i drilled a small hole on the t stat too.
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ok update. I bled the piss out of the cooling system, no hint of any air in the system. I sat there with the rpms at like 3k and the bleeder screw loosened a couple of turns, and i re-filled the coolant reservoir twice.
And alas, the heat gauge kept climbing.
So here is the thing:
today its much cooler, like 56 F, and my car is running EVEN HOTTER. Now the temp gauge goes all the way to the 3/4 mark. I have no idea what is going on. Once more, the lower rad hose going to the T-stat is STONE ICE WITCH TITTY cold. The intake manifold is also cool to the touch, and of course the valve cover is too hot to be touched. WTF is going on????????????
I am going to take the t-stat out and see what happens, and i will get back to this thread. Heck, maybe i should start a new one, devoted entirely to my car running so dang hot.
Oh and where do i get an even lower temp t-stat??
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ok i found a 75 degree t-stat here: http://www.discountbmwautoparts.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1991-BMW-318is--/--L4--1796cc--1.8l--Gas--Fi--m4---Cooling--Components&yearid=1991@@1991&makeid=BMW@@BMW@@X&engineid=1011373@@318IS++/+L4-1796cc+1.8L+GAS+FI++(M42)@@318IS&catid=Cooling+Components@@Cooling+Components&subcatid=Thermostat@@Thermostat&mode=PA
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ok here's the update:
I took the t-stat out, bolted the housing back on, refilled the coolant, and the result goes like this: When i drive, the temp fluctuates a little, but mostly stays around a little above 1/4 position. BUT, when i park and let the car idle, the temp will rise all the way up to the 3/4 level before i rev the engine. If i hold the revs at 3k, the temp needle will slowly drop back down to the above the 1/4 position.
Now, after my drive, the lower passenger coolant hose was still stone cold, as well as most of the radiator, except for the very far driver's side of the rad where the upper hose is. After idling and letting the temp reach the 3/4 level and then revving the engine to get the temp back down, right after that the lower coolant hose gets a little warm, but not hot. Then after letting the car idle for some time (and the temp goes back up to 3/4), the lower hose gets cold again.
This would hint that the pump is not circulating the coolant sufficently, but i had just replaced the pump with a brand new one like a week ago, so i know that is working. The thing that worries me is that the radiator never really gets hot.
What could it be?????? i am so at a loss....
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You haven't mentioned what your heater was doing through all this??
Did you have hot air from the heater or was it cold?
ok here's the update:
I took the t-stat out, bolted the housing back on, refilled the coolant, and the result goes like this: When i drive, the temp fluctuates a little, but mostly stays around a little above 1/4 position. BUT, when i park and let the car idle, the temp will rise all the way up to the 3/4 level before i rev the engine. If i hold the revs at 3k, the temp needle will slowly drop back down to the above the 1/4 position.
Now, after my drive, the lower passenger coolant hose was still stone cold, as well as most of the radiator, except for the very far driver's side of the rad where the upper hose is. After idling and letting the temp reach the 3/4 level and then revving the engine to get the temp back down, right after that the lower coolant hose gets a little warm, but not hot. Then after letting the car idle for some time (and the temp goes back up to 3/4), the lower hose gets cold again.
This would hint that the pump is not circulating the coolant sufficently, but i had just replaced the pump with a brand new one like a week ago, so i know that is working. The thing that worries me is that the radiator never really gets hot.
What could it be?????? i am so at a loss....
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heater blew hot, as always. Sorry i forgot to mention that. So that is further evidence that the water pump is working fine, other than the fact that the pump is brand new.
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This could be very informative when you do fined the answer.
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The coolant system if very simple. Heater is only really needed if your car is overheating or if you just want heat in the cabin. I would rule this out in the troubleshooting, unless you have heat coming from your vents when all of this is happening. This just have the coolant take longer to heat up. But at the temps you are stating, this is not the case. The design of the heater valve in the e30 is to be shut unless told to open opposite of the e28. So if your temp knob is working fine, and have it set to cold, even if you turn the fan on and open the vents you should just get air, no heat.
Look at the diagram. The flow is simple, goes from the radiator tank to the head and the pump pushes it thru the block and then it comes back. Only if the tstat is open, does the passenger side hose to the radiator has coolant flowing thru it. So if you have the tstat out, you should be coolant flowing through all the hoses. You can drive it and especially when the temp needle has gone to the 3/4 mark, pull over and touch all the hoses. Number 8 should be hot. If not, you have a blockage in my opinion.
The fan clutch should assist when its temp gets hot even at idle, but it is not much. If you do accelerate, you should hear it with whine, which means it is actually working and now the fan works even better at cooling. Looks like you were reving it was doing its job as the temp went down. Also with the reving, the pump pushes water.
I think you have gunk build up. The number 8 hose has to be hot as hell, where you cant even touch it. I dont recommend this after so many reading, but in your case it might be necessary, a coolan flush. Drano but for the car. Also make sur the belt on the water pump pulley is tight. Dont want it slipping. When I use to flush it, i would add the flush and follow direction on the bottle. I would use the Prestone one. Then to make sure you get everything out, I would just add a hose to the tank and keep feeding it water slowly but at enough current and would have the the engine running, reving it once in a while. Also the coolant block plug or the lower hose would be remove and then you really see all the crap that comes out of the engine. Always look at the temp to make sure it doesn overheat. If the temp goes up, just turn it off, let it sit about 30 mins or more so that it cools and keep flushing.
Also in between bleeds, the engine should be cold, FYI.
Sorry for all it it, but hope it clears your issues
(http://[IMG]http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w276/monty23psk/other/flow.jpg)[/IMG]
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i won't start another thread.
Monty: thanks for the essay, and thanks for the diagram! i was actually looking for that diagram, where did you get it?
so in response to your essay, no the lower passenger hose was stone cold, it only warms up to lukewarm when i let the engine get really hot at an idle and then rev it to 3k for a while. This makes me think that if the rad is clogged, coolant doesn't flow through at an idle, but can be pushed through somewhat at 3k rpm.
so what is the procedure in flushing the coolant system?
thanks btw monty, you are a huge help.
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Part of the e30 factory manual. I got it on PDF. I found it on the web on one of these forums. It use to be only, but that site died. Want a copy?
Well first thing is the coolant flush. Go to parts store to and buy it. They also have a radiator flush you can do. You CANT mix them. I think you can use the coolant flush in the radiator when you are flushing everything but the radiator flush can't go inside the block. So be careful.
First is read the directions on the coolant flush and follow. If you have questions, let me know. Then after you are finished, you will have to drain it to add the new coolant mix. In my essay post, I would flush it out with water to make sure you get all of it out. To do this you need a water hose and remove both upper hose on driver side and only one on passenger side from the driver side. Then flowing water in, turn engine on run it for a little while to flush out water. Also you dont have to remove hoses if you find the coolant drain plug on the block. Not sure where it is as I never looked for it, and it might not exists.
To do the radiator, you will need the rad out of the car and follow the directions. You can also take the radiator to a radiator shop to have it tested.
any questions?
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do they sell the kits at Autozone where it attaches a garden hose to the radiator so you can force water through the system?
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I have seen something like that, just not sure who carrys it, either autozone, napa, something like that. Also this was only for the radiator. For the engine, you just pour it in. Also if you call around, you might be able to have your radiator cleane and checked out for a low price. Better than doing it yourself and buying a new one. I remember when I was starting to overheat, I did everything and since I just finished rebuilding the engine, I didnt want to put the radiator in without knowing. When they checked it, it was toast. The water would flow through it just fine, but all the crap from inside that kept coming out. You would get hands full of corrosion bits.
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hmmm.... i will definitely need to get my radiator checked, because if that was the problem the whole time, i won't hesitate to drop $160 for a new rad and have the problem fixed.
I will call around tomorrow, and of course update this thread.
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Keep us posted.
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Whats your part# on your thermostat?
My needle goes a little past half. I bleed the system and all but I can never get it below half.
I dug up the previous owner's record and found out that the thermostat that is in my car is a 92 degree celius (part # 11537511083)
Car should have an 88 degree celius thremostat (part #11537511580)
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^ that is correct, you need the 88 degree version.
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With my parts company on the side, I can get you the Behr version for $25 shipped to you iamcreepingdeath (sorry dont know your name). This is the 88 degree version.
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I found a 75 degree version on bmaparts.com for $30, but at the moment i am about to take my radiator to the shop to be tested. I will update when i get back.
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Gool luck.
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Ok i brought the radiator to the place, and the dude stuck it in a closet like thing, shoved the end of a huge water blaster in the exit end of the radiator and blasted like 5,000 psi of water through the radiator. He said there was some gunk in it, and that he blasted it out, and to see if it works i should try it.
So i went home and re-installed it, and keep in mind the car still does not have a thermostat in it. So it warmed up (slowly) and lo and behold the radiator got warm and the lower coolant hose got warm. So i went for a drive, and the temp pretty much stayed below the 1/4 mark, but when i got back the lower coolant hose was stone cold again. No idea why.
So i think i am going to order the 75 degree t-stat and install it and see what happens.
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yup, thats the radiator tank cleaner. If your temp is at the quarter mark the coolant might actually might not be hot enough. Also what was the outside temp?
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outside temp like 50. Also i forgot to mention: Before the drive, when i let the car heat up at an idle, i also had the electric fan turned off (i deleted the mechanical fan and did the Volvo fan swap) so there was no airflow across the radiator, and the radiator got hot, but i turned the fan on and went for a drive, and the needle went down to below 1/4 and the radiator got cold.
So i ordered that 75 deg t-stat, and when i get it, i will install it and see what happens. I will update here of course.
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whats the pn for the 75 degree t stat. i would like to put that in cuz i have the 88
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How old is the rad? If it is the original one you might want to install a new one because it is just a matter of time before it goes. The problem with the cooling system on these cars is that it is a parallel circuit. The pump pumps through the engine and at the same time through the rad. If the rad is plugged all the flow goes through the engine and none through the rad. Other systems are just one flow path so the water would get forced through the rad until it is really plugged.
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whats the pn for the 75 degree t stat. i would like to put that in cuz i have the 88
here: http://www.bmaparts.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1991-BMW-318is--/--L4--1796cc--1.8l--Gas--Fi--m4---Cooling--Components&yearid=1991@@1991&makeid=BMW@@BMW@@X&engineid=1011373@@318IS++/+L4-1796cc+1.8L+GAS+FI++(M42)@@318IS&catid=Cooling+Components@@Cooling+Components&subcatid=Thermostat@@Thermostat&mode=PA
How old is the rad? If it is the original one you might want to install a new one because it is just a matter of time before it goes. The problem with the cooling system on these cars is that it is a parallel circuit. The pump pumps through the engine and at the same time through the rad. If the rad is plugged all the flow goes through the engine and none through the rad. Other systems are just one flow path so the water would get forced through the rad until it is really plugged.
hmm.... well that is a good point. we will see what happens when i get the new t-stat in.
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iamcreepingdeath you are not alone. My car does the same thing and I am lost at whats causing it. Took it to the shop and they say everything is running normal. For some reason it runs at 12oclock when I take it to the shop (just to torture me). But now it doesn't seem to matter what temperature it is outside it will run hot. Ive had my system flushed, water pump, thermostat and radiator replaced. Still have the problem though. Was tempted to replace both sensors but since you had no success I won't try.
What I find weird, and I don't know if you have this, but sometimes (rarely) it will run perfectly fine. The needle will be stuck right before 12 o'clock and it will stay that way for a few days. Then eventually it goes back between 12 and 3/4. Ive been driving around for the last week or two with it running hot. I'm hoping today my car will actually run at 3/4 tomorrow when I bring it to the shop so they can maybe tell me whats going on.
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iamcreepingdeath you are not alone. My car does the same thing and I am lost at whats causing it. Took it to the shop and they say everything is running normal. For some reason it runs at 12oclock when I take it to the shop (just to torture me). But now it doesn't seem to matter what temperature it is outside it will run hot. Ive had my system flushed, water pump, thermostat and radiator replaced. Still have the problem though. Was tempted to replace both sensors but since you had no success I won't try.
What I find weird, and I don't know if you have this, but sometimes (rarely) it will run perfectly fine. The needle will be stuck right before 12 o'clock and it will stay that way for a few days. Then eventually it goes back between 12 and 3/4. Ive been driving around for the last week or two with it running hot. I'm hoping today my car will actually run at 3/4 tomorrow when I bring it to the shop so they can maybe tell me whats going on.
weird. My car doesn't have times when it runs at the right temp, it is pretty much overheating all the time. Well, at the moment, i have no t-stat, and i just got the radiator blasted out and it is running really cold, like between the completely cold and 1/4 mark. When i get my t-stat in the mail i will see what happens.
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iamcreepingdeath you are not alone. My car does the same thing and I am lost at whats causing it. Took it to the shop and they say everything is running normal. For some reason it runs at 12oclock when I take it to the shop (just to torture me). But now it doesn't seem to matter what temperature it is outside it will run hot. Ive had my system flushed, water pump, thermostat and radiator replaced. Still have the problem though. Was tempted to replace both sensors but since you had no success I won't try.
What I find weird, and I don't know if you have this, but sometimes (rarely) it will run perfectly fine. The needle will be stuck right before 12 o'clock and it will stay that way for a few days. Then eventually it goes back between 12 and 3/4. Ive been driving around for the last week or two with it running hot. I'm hoping today my car will actually run at 3/4 tomorrow when I bring it to the shop so they can maybe tell me whats going on.
Did you check your aux fan & relay? Mine does that...runs fine sometimes, overheats at other times. No real pattern. I found that the resistor is defective. I fixed it temporarily by removing the resistor & wiring it straight. Now it works some of the time. So there's another problem to track down...maybe the low-speed relay, rad switch, dirty contacts, broken wire, etc.
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weird. My car doesn't have times when it runs at the right temp, it is pretty much overheating all the time. Well, at the moment, i have no t-stat, and i just got the radiator blasted out and it is running really cold, like between the completely cold and 1/4 mark. When i get my t-stat in the mail i will see what happens.
I thought it'd always run cold without a themostat? Without the thermostat to keep heat in the engine, you're essentially giving it max cooling when you're moving. It should heat up when you're idling, does it? The gauge or sender might also be wrong.
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I thought it'd always run cold without a themostat? Without the thermostat to keep heat in the engine, you're essentially giving it max cooling when you're moving. It should heat up when you're idling, does it? The gauge or sender might also be wrong.
after getting the radiator blasted out, the temp gauge has not gone past the 1/2 mark yet, it runs below the 1/4 mark when driving on the interstate, and at a park it crept up to the 1/4 mark. So far, so good, i am just crossing my fingers to see what happens when i get this new t-stat installed when it gets here.
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Ok I ain't no pro but I had da same problem for like a month looking every were to find the solution for overheating did every thing like pump the t nothing I work in a little shop I took my car and I said just for the hell of it I am going to do a coolant flush with a machine we got and guess what wala I think u should take ur car to like a jiffylube or something were they can do a realy good flush I did mines myself I did a pretty good job make shure they put the outlet hose to the t stat. The machine puts so much pressure that it forces the air out the system also leave ur ignition on with the heat blasted. When I was done with my car I wanted to cry of joy try it it will work but make shure u go to some ho nows how to do a good flush and with a machine. Good luck
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Ok I ain't no pro but I had da same problem for like a month looking every were to find the solution for overheating did every thing like pump the t nothing I work in a little shop I took my car and I said just for the hell of it I am going to do a coolant flush with a machine we got and guess what wala I think u should take ur car to like a jiffylube or something were they can do a realy good flush I did mines myself I did a pretty good job make shure they put the outlet hose to the t stat. The machine puts so much pressure that it forces the air out the system also leave ur ignition on with the heat blasted. When I was done with my car I wanted to cry of joy try it it will work but make shure u go to some ho nows how to do a good flush and with a machine. Good luck
whoa buddy slow down and type more legibly so i can understand what you are saying.
So the coolant flush fixed your overheating problem?
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Yeah, hard to understand but looks like a flush helped in his case. I would still recommend it and not expensive, just need to buy more coolant, which I recommend the blue bmw version. I can also get it cheaper than Pelican Parts in case you are interested. I alwasys offer parts that can save people money, might be a few dolloars but it adds eventually.
When do you get your tstat. I just shipped a 75 degree version to JohnWoo.
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This isn't exactly what you guys are talking about, but just in case it helps anyone else:
I was having some (severe) overheating issues a while back, and bled the system 3 or 4 times without any improvement. Did everything anyone said... car on an incline, car level, rad cap off, rad cap on, etc. - sometimes the temp would stay down for a little while, but went back up before too long. Eventually figured out that for whatever reason the lower rad hose was never filling with coolant (no, rad wasn't clogged - brand new, actually). So I primed the hose by disconnecting from the pump and filling directly with coolant. Reattached it, bled the system again, and the problem was fixed.
I still can't figure out how that solved the problem... or why that bubble didn't bleed out.
I blame it on voodoo. :)
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This isn't exactly what you guys are talking about, but just in case it helps anyone else:
I was having some (severe) overheating issues a while back, and bled the system 3 or 4 times without any improvement. Did everything anyone said... car on an incline, car level, rad cap off, rad cap on, etc. - sometimes the temp would stay down for a little while, but went back up before too long. Eventually figured out that for whatever reason the lower rad hose was never filling with coolant (no, rad wasn't clogged - brand new, actually). So I primed the hose by disconnecting from the pump and filling directly with coolant. Reattached it, bled the system again, and the problem was fixed.
I still can't figure out how that solved the problem... or why that bubble didn't bleed out.
I blame it on voodoo. :)
hmmm interesting....which hose you talking about willis? got a picture.
my lower hose the one that goes from the tstat housing to the lower part of the radiator on the passenger side always takes forever to warm up. and i have new radiator too. if that is the hose you are talking about and dumping coolant down there before filling up your cooling system works then im gona try that this weekend.
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(http://i36.tinypic.com/xfrbc8.jpg)
there is a pic to clarify. i circled it in red. is that the hose you are talking about. on mine that takes forever to warm up. i have to run my temp gauge to between 1/2 to 3/4 before that hose heats up. im thinking my sensor for the coolant or gauge is screwy. anyways if you could clarify, thanks.
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That hose would take a while to heat up as only when the tstat opens would it allown the hot coolant to pass by. Of course, hot coolant has to be passing through it for a while so that when you touch the hose, it is piping hot. I will take a drive to my father's warehouse after work, about 10 min drive, and see if after it is hot or not. I need to replace the upper hose on the ether side as it is bulging a little and dont want it to burst. Never replaced it 4 years ago when I did the rebuild.
Your tstat is in the mail.
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my t-stat should arrive today, but i am not sure if i can put it in today or tomorrow, because of stuff i have to do.
I will try the priming idea to that lower hose when i replace the t-stat, and maybe also i will take it to a lube place to have the engine coolant flushed with high pressure.
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That hose would take a while to heat up as only when the tstat opens would it allown the hot coolant to pass by. Of course, hot coolant has to be passing through it for a while so that when you touch the hose, it is piping hot. I will take a drive to my father's warehouse after work, about 10 min drive, and see if after it is hot or not. I need to replace the upper hose on the ether side as it is bulging a little and dont want it to burst. Never replaced it 4 years ago when I did the rebuild.
Your tstat is in the mail.
cool cool. i was just seeing if op had the same issue and maybe that solved his overheating problem buy dumping coolant directly into the pipe to prime it.
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OK so i am about to put in the new t-stat.
BUT, before that, i thougt i'd say what is currently happening. Ok with my radiator blasted out, it seems to be flowing better, but not enough it seems. When i drive, it seems to run below the 1/4 mark on the temp gauge, but the second i come to a stop, the temp gauge starts to rise, and if the car is idling long enough, the temp will go all the way up to the 1/2 mark
When i rev the engine, the temp drops down again, and the lower radiator hose gets hot.
synopsis:
when the car is idling, not much flow through the radiator, radiator stays cold, engine heats up.
when engine is revved, more flow through the radiator, radiator and lower hose warms up, engine cools down.
Do i need a new radiator?
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Ok i installed the 75 degree t-stat, and i primed the lower coolant hose with some water as was mentioned above, bolted everything back together, took out the bleed screw, filled the coolant until pure coolant (no bubbles) came out of the bleed hole, screwed the bleed screw and coolant cap on, started the car, let it warm up (temp needle bouncing all over), then opened the bleed screw, took off the coolant cap, filled the reservoir to the rim, then revved the engine, coolant squirting out of the bleed screw, until the coolant level in the reservoir dropped to the cold mark, then closed the bleed screw, and replaced the coolant cap.
So then i took the car on a drive to the gas station and back (to get gas) and Lo and Behold! For verily i say unto you! the temperature needle never passeth the midway point but tarryeth in such a place to be between the 1/4 and 1/2 mark, and it stayeth there, and bounceth not, for the entire trip!!
So far, it looks like everything is working as it should! the needle is in the right place, consistent, and doesn't rise when the car is idling!!!
BUT, i am not going to get my hopes up, I will only be convinced that this problem is resolved if the car does not act up for several days, and after some long trips.
so stay tuned!! if this is indeed finally fixed, i will come back to this thread and make a "conclusions" post, outlining what the problem was, what i did to the car, and my theory as to how it got fixed.
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Awesome. When I took my 10 minutes drive, the car was at operating temp, between 1/4 and 1/2 within 5 minutes. Very warm today. And after the 12 minuted ride, lower hose is boiling hot.
To answer you first posting of tonight. Your radiator is fine. After driving awhile, since the engine is hot, the temp will start to climb. And only when you accelrate, does the fan clutch kick on, and the water pump spins more to produce flow, hence the hose getting hot.
Let us know how it goes the next couple of days.
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BTW i have no fan clutch. I am rocking the Volvo electric puller fan in place of the stock fan, clutch, and shroud.
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Then the fan should be cooling it enough to compensate for the missing fan clutch. Is it on all the time? Also the flow is still rushing becasuse the water spins faster when you accelerate.
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yeah the fan works fine. it runs at a constant speed all the time, and kicks in to high if the temp in the rad gets high enough, which it never does. That issue was addressed a long time ago.
i guess the issue was the t-stat and the rad being clogged.
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Cool. I have the Spal in front of the condensor with no fan clutch. If it goes on low or high, my temp actually goes done. But if I am in rush hour, it will keep it from going pat 3/4 on low. If high gets on, it will kick it down to 1/2. And imagine, the air from the fan has to go thru condensor and radiator. But I do have a shroud. I would recommend if the volvo ever dies.
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yeah i have no AC condenser, i ripped all my AC stuff out, including all the lines and the compressor, because the compressor is seized up, and i would have to pay an arm and a leg for a new compressor, and then convert to r134a on top of that, and it wouldn't be worth it.
If the Volvo fan ever takes a poop i am definitely getting a Spal pusher to strap right to the front of the radiator. Heck i'll be doing that anyway when i eventually do my S50 swap...
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Awesome. When I took my 10 minutes drive, the car was at operating temp, between 1/4 and 1/2 within 5 minutes. Very warm today. And after the 12 minuted ride, lower hose is boiling hot.
To answer you first posting of tonight. Your radiator is fine. After driving awhile, since the engine is hot, the temp will start to climb. And only when you accelrate, does the fan clutch kick on, and the water pump spins more to produce flow, hence the hose getting hot.
Let us know how it goes the next couple of days.
so what do you guys think is wrong with mine. it take forever for that hose to warm up. i have new radiator water pump and tstat. 88 temp. do you think my rad is clogged? hmm..im gonna do some overhaul on my sensors then see if that will fix it. my car just be running lower than the 88 degree temp of the tstat for it to warm up.
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If the hose take forever, either tstat is not allowing a lot of coolant through or you have a blockage. One option is to remove tstat and see if the hose gets hot after driving it a while and letting the temp get up on the engine. If you radiator is new, I would not think that it is clogged.
John, I know I have been following iamcreepingdeath issue closely. What exaclty is yours?
Also, I just replaced the top hose on mine yesterday and didnt bleed it. I noticed driving to work that the car temp is hotter than normal. Stays at the noon instead of the half past 1/4. So I know I have air and need to bleed. M42 is picky when it comes to coolant and air. The engine itslef carrys very little coolant compared to the m20 for example. So any little air goes a long way.
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well my issue on my car is
my needle bounces around from 1/2 to 3/4. similiar to dancing needle so i have to check my ground. also the hose on the passenger side as marked in th pic takes forever to warm up. i've bled the system forever. im gonna do the lower temp tstat check the ground on my cluster, and change the sensor on the head. then prime the hose by filling it. so hopefully i get my issure resolved. the hose does eventually get hot.
my gauge if hit also goes back down to halfway mark. im just tired of driving the car with one eye on the temp gauge. the m20 that i have sits dead square on the 1/2 mark.
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johnwoo: do the ground thing on the back of the cluster like you said, and then with the car all the way warm and the heat on, try bleeding it again. This time don't look for bubbles, jut open the coolant tank and fill it to the brim with coolant, and then unscrew thhe bleed screw a little, and then hold the engine at like 3k rpm until the coolant level drops to the cold mark.
This way you are just pushing alot of coolant out of the bleed screw, and it ought to bleed the system. Also, did you put the t-stat in with the arrow pointing up?
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Sounds like you might be ok, just a temp gauge issue. Also depends on exterior temp and how long the tstat takes to open would the lower hose gets hot. If it is, then I think tstat is ok. Having the aux fan and fan clutch also help out in case you are at idle.
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It appears this problem may have been solved.
Once upon a time, I had a car doing this, bleeding coolant, gauge all over the place. It turned out to be a bad head gasket. There was no white smoke, no coolant in oil. Exhaust gas was going into the coolant. It was a pretty strange problem, that went away after I changed out the head gasket.
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It appears this problem may have been solved.
Once upon a time, I had a car doing this, bleeding coolant, gauge all over the place. It turned out to be a bad head gasket. There was no white smoke, no coolant in oil. Exhaust gas was going into the coolant. It was a pretty strange problem, that went away after I changed out the head gasket.
i sure hope i don't have to do my head gasket.
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Any updates?
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Any updates?
yeah, sort of!! (sorry about the late reply, the thread didn't show up bold like it is supposed to)
well, i have driven my car a ton, and as of yet, it has never overheated, which is a success, but the temp gauge likes to move around much more than it used to. The car will run from a little over 1/4 temp up to 1/2 temp, depending on how i drive. Also, the gauge will bounce a little every once in a while, its probably because i did not bleed the coolant sufficiently.
What gets me is how the temp gauge can consistently stay at one point, and then move and consistently stay at another point. Its almost as if my t-stat randomly decides that it wants to be an 88 degree t-stat instead of a 75 degree one.
I am going to rig up a small tube on my bleeder valve so that when i bleed the radiator the coolant is directed back into the reservoir so i can bleed the rad forever and not lose coolant. I think after i bleed it maybe the temp will be more consistent.
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Mine is always moving, and according to what the car and aux fan are doing. This is good because it makes sense and tells me the gauge is working. Mine does not bounce though. Maybe it is not bleeding but a bad ground like the nut in the cluster.
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Ok so up till now the temp has stayed between the 1/4 and 1/2 mark, fluctuating a bit, sometimes jumping but has never gone over 1/2
So on the way back home from work today, the temp gauge started hopping over the 1/2 mark, and stayed for long periods of time a little over the 1/2 mark.
What the fuck???? i have been messing with this stupid cooling system for way too long, and right now i am quite pissed off. did the t-stat just decide it wanted to open at a higher temp???
So i pulled over and filled the expansion tank and bled the piss out of it till the coolant level dropped to the cold mark, then i re-filled it, and bled it again.
the result, nothing. temp still slightly over 1/2 and bouncing every once in a while. WTF??? the temp needle used to stay pretty well under 1/2 totally consistently, now what?????
EDIT: so i said fuck it and i went ahead and ordered a brand new radiator from Pelican Parts. Hopefully that fixes the problem. If not, then I am going to pull apart the gauge cluster and tighten that grounding nut. Heck, i'll just do that anyway.
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Most m42 cars stay around the 1/2 mark. At least mine does . Sometimes it's a little above and sometimes a little below.
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How much over the 1/2 mark? If it didnt get close to the 3/4, I think you are ok. Also maybe the engine was used a little more and was warmer or maybe the outside temp was hotter than the last few days.
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it didn't go far over 1/2, the point is that ever since i installed the 75 degree t-stat it never even went up to the 1/2 mark for weeks, and then suddenly last night something changed and it started going over. And it was frigid last night, like 38 degrees and raining.
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Weird but think you are ok.
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it didn't go far over 1/2, the point is that ever since i installed the 75 degree t-stat it never even went up to the 1/2 mark for weeks, and then suddenly last night something changed and it started going over. And it was frigid last night, like 38 degrees and raining.
It may have burped an air bubble. ....................
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ok so it was doing it again on the way home from work, and I smacked the gauge cluster with a few fingers (more like a violent "poke" at the temp gauge) and immediately the needle jumped back down to where it was supposed to be and pretty much stayed there for the rest of the trip, even though i drove like an asshole most of the way.
So that leads me to believe that i need to be ripping my gauge cluster out asap....
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good troubleshooting...lol "poke technique". The ladies like that one too.
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So it has been a long while, but anyway apparently my car is not overheating any more, so the problem was solved somehow, what i did notice is that if the temp needle started jumping, i have the gauge cluster a good smack and the needle drops back down where it is supposed to be immediately.
So i did get a new radiator and installed it anyway just in case, so my car does not overheat now, but i do have to smack the cluster every once in a while.
Oh and i did take it out and tighten the nut in the back, but it didn't help, so it must be a bad gauge, but im not too worried about it, i'll replace it some day.
Well thank you everyone for all of your help! M42club is the best!!!!!!
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Good to hear.
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brought this one back......................,
have the similar "lower passenger side" radiator hose cold issue. Never seems to get hot, just warm after long drives around town or interstate travel. The car never overheats and the needle stays pegged a hair over 1/2. It slowly creeps up to op temp and stays there. The needle never fluctuates. I have heat and it seems fine.
I searched for this thread, because i did my ICV cleaning and replaced my hoses. while doing it, i accidentally pulled a coolant hose leading to my TB. Could i have let some air in the system? Ever since then, my heater seems to work alittle less efficiently. It used to get too hot and i used to have to turn it down. Now, i run it at full all the time. Dont get me wrong, it works well, but not that "jeezzus, turn that thing down" heat. It is, of course, 20* cooler now, but it doesnt seem as hot.
I guess my question is, is the lower hose not being hot an issue? could it be tied into letting air into the system? Is it connected to my heat not being as hot?
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I had some fun today in the snow. I ran the hell outta the car today. When i got home i decided to check the lower hose. It was hot to the touch. I could feel pressure in both hoses as i squeezed them. The heater worked very well too, had to turn it down. Im gonna monitor the car this week and see it changes
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i have the same issues.... it likes to stay around half and that with the heater blasting.. it bounces everywhere.. strange...
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what i did notice is that if the temp needle started jumping, i have the gauge cluster a good smack and the needle drops back down where it is supposed to be immediately.
Mine does that too, and I've used the same solution. Been doing it since we bought the car in '04.
I think it may be a loose ground on the back of the gauge, but I never got around to pulling my gauge cluster to check.
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Bought both of these cars a couple years ago with high miles (180 &200k). Both immediately got new radiators, water pumps, and tstats, but still have the stock "vacuum hose nightmare under the manifold". On the red 91 318is, the temp needle would occasionally go to the red--symptoms similar to when my e32 735 had a blown head gasket. I swapped water pumps and tstats, and bled it many times, etc, etc., and finally had the engine rebuilt last year. It was OK on the temp for a while, but then the needle started creeping to the red, mainly on hot days this past summer. After horsing around with bleeding it for a week, again swapping water pumps and tstats, and eventually just trying to get the lower rad hose hot, I tried an experiment. I removed the upper radiator hose and substituted a piece of clear vinyl tubing in its place. I could see bubbles flowing. With the vinyl hose attached to the engine and disconnected from the radiator, and the disconnected end pointing up toward the sky, I poured coolant in. Then I pumped the lower radiator hose by squeezing it repeatedly. LOTS of bubbles came out of the upper hose, and then the coolant level dropped and I was able to pour another HALF GALLON of water into the vinyl hose. I reconnected the hose to the radiator, bled it, and it ran perfectly at the middle (12 O'clock) mark. Figuring the vinyl would fail, I re-installed the rubber upper radiator hose and bled it. In the following weeks the temp needle was mostly steady in the middle, but would occasionally creep toward the red. One day I gave the dash a smack, and VOILA! the needle jumped back to the middle.
Lessons: The temp gauge (or cluster circuitry) is definitely flaky (I've tightened the ground nut twice to no avail). Air bubbles keep the water pump from doing its job, and I had gotten a serious air bubble or pocket in the system when I swapped the water pump. And I might have also had a few bubbles left over from the engine rebuild--who knows? Maybe I need to let the coolant flow out of the bleed hole for a much longer time (I need a bigger drain pan and lots of 50/50 coolant on hand). And last, its hard to say if I wasted money on the engine rebuild.
Questions: I like the concept of rigging a tube to bleed coolant directly back into the reservoir--has anyone solved that puzzle? (iamcreepingdeath?) And why doesn't the little hole that spurts coolant into the top of the overflow reservoir serve to bleed the coolant? What is its purpose?
New problem: Fast forward 5 months. Last week, with cold weather forecast, I replaced the weak, dilute summer coolant with new bmw blue 50/50. It was a hurried job and maybe I didn’t bleed it enough. It is now in the teens and 20s outside and although the temp needle stays mostly in the middle, the heater doesn't stay warm--air coming out of the vents fluctuates from 50 to 100F, seemingly at random. However, the black 318is, which generally is slow to warm up but hasn't tried to overheat for over a year, barely got its temp gauge needle out of the blue last night on a three-mile drive, and yesterday its heater also blew air that fluctuated from cold to warm, all day long (100 miles), just like the red car was doing.
More questions: Maybe it is time for the old cardboard-in-front-of-the-radiator trick? Could that strange bypass valve many of us have between the heater hoses be part of the problem? Does removing the hose nightmare expedite bleeding? Will I ever learn how to bleed these engines?
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First, I cracked the radiator cap while still warm (not hot). I could hear a lot of gurgling from alongside the engine on the driver's side. Coolant filled the expansion reservoir to overflowing, which then stopped when I opened the bleed screw. Obviously there were trapped air bubbles.
Next, mostly out of curiosity, I confirmed that the heater core had no blockage by removing both heater hoses from firewall and using a length of hose to blow air through heater core. By the way, the heater valve default seems to be open for this red car (old p/n 64111386707), as the valve is broken and won't close when the temp control knob is turned to "blue. The default is also open (that is, with no 12V power) for a used valve I picked up at the boneyard a few months ago. (This is opposite to that reported in post #74, above).
Third, as I describe in my previous post, I disconnected the upper radiator hose from the radiator, pointed the open end skyward, and with radiator cap and bleed screw removed, filled the open end of the upper hose until I could see coolant. Then I squeezed the lower hose repeatedly. I filled the upper radiator hose to the brim and reconnected it to the radiator. I filled the expansion tank to the brim and followed purcell's procedure (cap and bleed screw still open), started the engine, warmed it up, and revved it to 2000 or so rpms for several minutes while my wife watched the temperature gauge. The coolant level dropped nearly to the kalt line. While still revving the engine, I closed both the bleed screw and reinstalled the radiator cap. (Whenever I would stop revving the engine the coolant level in the expansion tank would rapidly rise, threatening to overflow.)
The next time I change and refill the coolant I plan to also disconnect the lower radiator hose and fill it, according to one of the suggestions earlier in this thread. Maybe that will eliminate the need to repeatedly squeeze the lower hose.
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wow that was quite the essay! I hope everything works out! my cooling system seems to be working perfectly fine now, except the blower motor started developing a nasty squeak, so, time to replace that!