M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: JoeDellio on June 18, 2009, 01:37:58 AM
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Had this problem along with some 1222 and 1226 codes. I replaced the crankcase ventilator (it was shot making a horrible whistle sound) and the codes dissapeared and the oil quit leaking out. Now 1500 miles later its doing it again.
I took off the CCV again tonight and made sure it was still intact, it looked fine and when I blew into it air came out of the holes in the TB plate like it is suppose to. I thought air was suppose to leak out of the top of it though outta the vent on it when the car was running though, It isnt seeming to do that anymore, its just forcing it through the cap.
What can cause oil to come out of the cap? I know too much pressure, but what would cause excessive crankcase pressure?
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I am gonna say you might have a clogged oil line. Follow? I have read your past entries about your codes and I am very interested in helping. You could also have a clogged vacuum line. Check your hoses.
If i remove my oil filler cap while the engine is running, my car stalls and shuts down. Does yours do that?
Also do you have oil in the spark plug wells?
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I am gonna say you might have a clogged oil line. Follow? I have read your past entries about your codes and I am very interested in helping. You could also have a clogged vacuum line. Check your hoses.
If i remove my oil filler cap while the engine is running, my car stalls and shuts down. Does yours do that?
Also do you have oil in the spark plug wells?
No oil in the spark plug wells that I know of.
When I pull my dipstick or oil cap the car still runs the same, whats does that say?
Ive replaced all the vacuum lines recently, but a clogged oil line doesnt seem far off, but I wasnt aware of any actual oil lines on the engine. Ive noticed lately on start up my valvetrain ticks for a second and then smooths out and its never done that before.
Could too much blowby from worn rings do this? I dont have any smoke out the exhaust so I dont know how bad it could be.
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Let's hope it's just be a bad cap. Any cracks in the rubber gasket? I'd hope that the hot oil was just oozing out a little. I'd smear a little RTV on that and see if it helps.
Your car should at least change idle when you pull that cap off though...it's a huge vacuum leak. I'm not familiar with the pressure CCV, but I'd assume it's pulling air into the manifold...not pushing.
Hmmm...maybe this has something to do with it:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Content/Site302/SpecialIssue/02_01_2008/3555Import1pdf_00000005695.pdf
Others are in the same boat (dealer quotes like $1000, WTF?):
http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/5-series-e12-e28-e34-e39/crankcase-vent-valve-oil-separator-61221.html
Maybe the CCV might be compensating for the leak? I'm going to guess that this little device emulates a FPR...I'll bet it's a diaphragm valve and it's just dirty. It doesn't look like it, but can it be taken apart? If it's unhappy might you see a pressure buildup? I'm also told that it incorporates an oil trap. Maybe it's plugged and drawing air through the check valve?
I'd figure that conventional motor oil would gunk that up pretty quickly if you have any vacuum leaks at all. Check out the threads on cleaning the lower manifold here, yuck!
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Let's hope it's just be a bad cap. Any cracks in the rubber gasket? I'd hope that the hot oil was just oozing out a little. I'd smear a little RTV on that and see if it helps.
Your car should at least change idle when you pull that cap off though...it's a huge vacuum leak. I'm not familiar with the pressure CCV, but I'd assume it's pulling air into the manifold...not pushing.
Hmmm...maybe this has something to do with it:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Content/Site302/SpecialIssue/02_01_2008/3555Import1pdf_00000005695.pdf
Others are in the same boat (dealer quotes like $1000, WTF?):
http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/5-series-e12-e28-e34-e39/crankcase-vent-valve-oil-separator-61221.html
Maybe the CCV might be compensating for the leak? I'm going to guess that this little device emulates a FPR...I'll bet it's a diaphragm valve and it's just dirty. It doesn't look like it, but can it be taken apart? If it's unhappy might you see a pressure buildup? I'm also told that it incorporates an oil trap. Maybe it's plugged and drawing air through the check valve?
I'd figure that conventional motor oil would gunk that up pretty quickly if you have any vacuum leaks at all. Check out the threads on cleaning the lower manifold here, yuck!
The cap is new. I had this same problem 1200 miles ago and it was the CCV. It was the problem for my codes also.
I dont see why my car wouldnt die from pulling the oil cap or the dipstick while its running. When you pull mine it doesnt skip a beat at all. What could be the cause of that? Ill try taking the CCV apart and seeing if I can find where the oil trap is.
Also, at idle the pressure coming from the valve cover port isnt that strong at all.
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I just took my valve cover off and took off the plate on the inside of the cover to see if anything was clogged up, nothing from what I could see, just some weird upside down "hook like" tubes that had oil in them, so I blew them out.
Put it back on car and no changes, I still cant change the idle at all by pulling the cap when its running.
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I have had the same symptoms. Mine dies when I pull my dipstick, and when I pull the oil cap off. Also mine ticks too when I first start it up. You got me on this one, I will have to get back with you later after I let this info sink in for a couple of day. By the way, How does it run on the road? Freeway? at a stoplight? Let me know. Thanks.
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I have had the same symptoms. Mine dies when I pull my dipstick, and when I pull the oil cap off. Also mine ticks too when I first start it up. You got me on this one, I will have to get back with you later after I let this info sink in for a couple of day. By the way, How does it run on the road? Freeway? at a stoplight? Let me know. Thanks.
yeah, my car use to die when Id pull the dipstick, but I dont know why it wont now, Im sure its directly related to my problem.
My car runs fine on the road except the CEL will come on, but when I take my foot off the gas it goes away, and at stoplights it idles fine, it always idles fine. On the freeway it pulls the CEL like once a minute, the 1222 Im sure, since Im at a constant RPM. The last time I drove it on the freeway the CEL would pop on and the car would just bog down totally, I could barely drive it, the plugs were completely fouled. That why I have been working on it since then to get to the bottom of the leaky oil cap.
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UPDATE: I took off the CCV, everything is intact. With the CCV removed the hole which it covers sucks SUPER hard, so I put the hose that goes to the CCV directly on it and then I get tons of vacuum.
When I put the CCV back on its like it barely pulls at all. Ive never heard of them breaking this way, Its almost like the spring is too weak and it shuts itself off.
It is a brand new CCV from Pelican, but I bought the FEBI one, not the OEM. If anybody could pull off there CCV hose and see how hard it sucks when they put their finger over it that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys.
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Sorry if you might have already done this previously, but have you done a compression check. Might be blowby??
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Sorry if you might have already done this previously, but have you done a compression check. Might be blowby??
Would the CCV not be able to compensate for severe blowby? I havent done a comp test yet, I figured blown rings would show in my exhaust for sure. Ill have to check it out.
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NEW UPDATE
Compression tests out 160-230-230-210. Of course its always cylinder #1.
All my plugs are pitch black.
I dont think that blowby in just cylinder #1 would cause:
A. All my spark plugs to be fouled/borderline dead.
B. My Crankcase pressure to be off the chart.
C. The reason why my car is running rich.
Im still leaning on the CCV. I contacted Pelican and they are gonna send me a new one because its only 2 months old. I really think this one is defective or my car just flat out killed it. I think my positive pressure is because my CCV isnt letting it through, or at least I hope so.
If a new CCV fixes the problem Ill be happy. If it craps out, and indeed my weak cylinder #1 is ruining my fun, then in goes a new longblock. Locally they can be had for $500-$700 with 90,000 to 130,000 miles. And itll get ARP head studs on it :D
Ill post up when I get the new CCV in hopefully by the end of the week.
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It could be due to excessive crank case pressure from worn out valve guides or piston rings.
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Hey this may sound stupid but check your AFM. You know the AFM works in conjunction with the TPS and so on with the DME. I think the running rich part is kinda due to a bad Air Flow Meter. As for the Crank case pressure I am gonna go with the blowby theory. Just to let you know the M42 is supposed to have an average of 210 psi in each cylinder. If you have more it could cause an adverse effect. Really in all I think if you have serious internal engine problems, I would go for a rebuild. Good luck.
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Hey this may sound stupid but check your AFM. You know the AFM works in conjunction with the TPS and so on with the DME. I think the running rich part is kinda due to a bad Air Flow Meter. As for the Crank case pressure I am gonna go with the blowby theory. Just to let you know the M42 is supposed to have an average of 210 psi in each cylinder. If you have more it could cause an adverse effect. Really in all I think if you have serious internal engine problems, I would go for a rebuild. Good luck.
I hear ya on the MAF, but wouldnt that being damaged result in a direct CEL related to that? I have a new OEM BMW CCV on the way, but if that doesnt work Im gonna go for a low mileage longblock. For the same price as a rebuild, machining, and all parts and gaskets, its way cheaper. There is one 130 miles from where I live with 42k original miles on it for $900.
Does anyone know if I end up buying an engine from a car that had an A/T if there will be anything I might have to change besides the obvious flywheel, is there anything that is different with that end of the crankshaft in terms of bolt on and go?
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You'll probably have to remove the pilot bearing in the crank tail shaft. Other than that it's all swapping everything else over. I don't think there are any other differences, but I'd wait for more experienced members to chime in.
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You'll probably have to remove the pilot bearing in the crank tail shaft. Other than that it's all swapping everything else over. I don't think there are any other differences, but I'd wait for more experienced members to chime in.
Good to know.
Over at BF's someone is telling me that just the blowby from the one cylinder is enough to mess things up. They were saying the DME sees the blowby from the one cylinder and thinks its from all 4, and in turn compensates by enriching every cylinder. This made no sense to me at all.
From the way I understand it, all my cylinders could be at 175psi, far above the minimum standards by BMW, and still run fine. I dont know HOW or WHY the DME would see blowby or positive pressure and think to richen up every cylinder, the only device that could regulate the pressure would be the CCV, and since it works under vacuum with a rated spring it wouldnd even be able to notice the pressure. That, and not too mention the most obvious that it is a mechanical part and not connected to the DME electronically at all.
But, I could be wrong.
Im am still praying that if I can rid of the pressure back into my intake at the 15 counts of vacuum with a new OEM BMW CCV my car wont run rich and go another 30K. :D
I need it to, because my DSM isnt built to be daily driven :eek:
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You're right. There is simply no need for the DME to process all that data.
I found this one today:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187676
I'm not surprised that BMW refuses to admit wrongdoing, but I'm amused that it's happening to the expensive, ugly BMWs...still, it's incredible to hear their complaints. Reminds me of the good ole' days of nikasil. Or the thermal reactors on our old e12.
It HAS to be that positive crank ventilator. Any way to remove it entirely/bypass it/toss it in the bin?
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As for taking it out and bypassing it, Im outta luck. The link you gave me earlier talks about how the CCV is designed to allow slight vacuum from the intake, approximately 10-15 mbar. So if I just block it off it will just build up major pressure (like its doing now with it in its functional position), and when I just run the system without the CCV it pulls WAY too much vacuum, so much that you cant even take off the oil cap, and you can hear the engine whistling from it sucking air in through the seals.
I ordered the new OEM BMW CCV today and it will be here on Thursday, so time will tell.
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I'd be tempted to splice in a one-way regulator...or copy the earlier e30 setup on your M42. Can't be that much different...although it might cause problems with the emissions folks.
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I'd be tempted to splice in a one-way regulator...or copy the earlier e30 setup on your M42. Can't be that much different...although it might cause problems with the emissions folks.
Today for the hell of it I am going to put an old boost/vacuum gauge on the car. I am going to hook it up between the FPR and intake to see what the reading is. Im guessing itll be anywhere from 10 to 20 on the vacuum side of things, that is, unless the CCV is screwing crap up.
Then Im gonna get a reading with the gauge between the VC and the CCV. If Im right about my thoughts, the positive pressure from the VC is shutting off the CCV and its gonna read boost pressure on the gauge.
Then Im going to get a one way valve or maybe even just a ball valve and try and get the CCV side vacuum reading to match whatever the FPR and intake side is reading. If I can adjust it correctly Im going to try and get it to read 18 counts of vacuum, and see if my CEL, oil leaks out the cap, and if my plugs get fouled or not. Im just gonna mess around with it, the new CCV should be here tomorrow or THURS at the latest.
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Just pulled my codes again to reset them for the new CCV install (will be here in an hour).
Pulled a new code today #1215 the air sensor. WTF?!?!?!
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I had that same air sensor reading. Turn out there was an extension connector that was waterlogged. I re-rerouted the cable, cleaned it with contact cleaner, and pulled the extension out. Code went away.
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I was asking a friend what could be causing pressure build up in the cam box. We're baffled too. He thought maybe a leaky intake valve seat or seal, suggested a leakdown test.
He's worked on Citroen, Peugeot, Porsche, and most recently an old Maserati Q-Port. If he's baffled, I'm way out of my depth!
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I was asking a friend what could be causing pressure build up in the cam box. We're baffled too. He thought maybe a leaky intake valve seat or seal, suggested a leakdown test.
He's worked on Citroen, Peugeot, Porsche, and most recently an old Maserati Q-Port. If he's baffled, I'm way out of my depth!
Thanks for your concern. I do have a little valve train noise at startup recently, but once oil gets circulating it stops.But....
Just installed the CCV, the car is sitting in my driveway warming up. I havent driven it yet, but I can tell you that at least now when I pull my oil fill cap or my dipstick my car stumbles and wants to die, so at least now its pulling vacuum.
Thanks for all the insite Dave, I just noticed, you arent that far at all from Cleveland.
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Yep - only about three hours...if there's ever a Mid-Atlantic get-together I might see you there! We should also get an admin to put these two threads together.
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Yep - only about three hours...if there's ever a Mid-Atlantic get-together I might see you there! We should also get an admin to put these two threads together.
Yeah, I had two different problems that ended up being caused together without knowing. It sucks copy and pasting to each thread just in case someone doesnt see the other.
UPDATE: Put on the new CCV and drove the car for 3 hours tonight, Im still getting fault codes, but I am not leaking any oil out the cap as of yet.
I did pull a new code that happened to be the air sensor #1215, its the only time Ive pulled that one, and it wont come back now since I cleared it. So right away tonight I bought one of a member on BF's for $50 shipped.
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Just bought a stock FPR off ebay today for $20 shipped. So then I can rule that out along with the new AFM.
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Just installed the FPR.
Funny thing is it is a 3.5 bar, when the one that came out was a 3.0 bar.
My car is a 09/94, and this is the diagram it shows for it http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...66&hg=13&fg=15
But my injection system looks like this one from a M44 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...16&hg=13&fg=15 which still says a 3.0 bar, but WTF? Im pretty sure I have the M42, I dont know why I have the M44 injection type system.
Im guessing now the 3.5 bar FPR is just gonna dump even more fuel?
3.5 bar FPR made no difference, codes still pop up, 1226,1222,1221. This is the wrong FPR right? Should I put the old 3 bar back in?
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Can you pull the valve cover off and verify whether you have hydraulic tappets (flat and round) for the M42 head or hydraulic rockers (roller/rocker type) for the M44.
There should be a code sticker or a stamp on the head to identify the engine you have. On the E36 and later engines there's a lot of stuff in the way, so the sticker or stamp will be hidden anyway--so ignore that advice.
What # Bosch ECU do you have?
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Can you pull the valve cover off and verify whether you have hydraulic tappets (flat and round) for the M42 head or hydraulic rockers (roller/rocker type) for the M44.
There should be a code sticker or a stamp on the head to identify the engine you have. On the E36 and later engines there's a lot of stuff in the way, so the sticker or stamp will be hidden anyway--so ignore that advice.
What # Bosch ECU do you have?
I have never taken out the DME, but I will and get the number. Im almost posotive its an M42, it says right in the door. And its got the dme coolant sensor and gauge sensor in the head, unlike the M44's one. Its just weird that the diagram shown for the M44 injection system looks more like mine.
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Different FPR didnt make a difference.
Neither did a different AFM. I put a supposed good one from a 92 318i and the car ran worse, bogging out and sputtering real bad.
I put in different plugs that were good when I switched to iridiums and the car still bogs out bad, Im gonna swap my old AFM back in and see if this problem persists, but then I still have the original problem...
My next step is Im gonna try and test the O2 circuit if I can figure out how, and see if the sensor is dead, or if its even getting power to it.
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O2 sensors should be tested hot...but I'm not sure I'd want to be over on that side of the engine...
You could build/buy/get one of those little O2 meters and watch it real-time. I've never figured out how to test an O2 sensor because it varies so much with load. It also isn't used at WOT or open-loop. So the only time it's even doing anything is when the engine is warm and at idle, part-throttle or steady-state cruising.
It should be putting out about 500mv, varying between 100mv and 1000mv (1vdc) IIRC. I'll be putting a wide-band in mine one of these days, I'll post my findings. I'm going to try a megasquirt project and I'll be using the 318 to test stuff.
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^ I tested it in and out of the car tonight.
Outside of the car I read its DCV with a torch to it. I could get it to read .1 all the way up to .7 with the torch on it for around 2 minutes, but when I would pull it away it would drop real slow, it should drop at least .1 within 5 seconds.
Back in the car I hooked it up and left it out to ensure the heater was coming on, and it was.
Put it back in and tried to monitor the volts at idle, the car was warm and should have been in closed loop, which should have had the volts jumping back and forth from below .45 and over it. All I got was a solid -6.5? WTF?
Then I checked my temp gauge and it was 3/4!!!!! Just from idling for 10 minutes. All my cooling system is all new, coincidence with the O2? I dont know. Maybe I cooked it too much and messed something up?
So then I let the car cool down and unplugged the O2 and started it back up and drove it around, no overheating at all, stayed right in the middle.
I didnt think it was possible for an O2 to read that low. To pull a number under .45v means its running lean and the O2 is trying to compensate by adding more fuel. But -6.5? thats crazy, either it was already broken or I cooked it.
Back to the drawing board. :confused:
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Just noticed I am losing coolant. Checked it again today and it was down to the little tube that is in the bottom of the resevoir tank. I am 99% sure I am not leaking it, so I must be burning it.
Im thinking maybe thats why I pulled a low compression reading on my #1 cylinder, but I dont have enough knowledge or will power left to link it to my main problem.
I get some white smoke on a hard rev, but my exhaust doesnt smell sweet like it would with a blown HG. And there is no oil in my coolant and vice versa, but I know HG's can be tricky somtimes with no symptoms at all.
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Well, Im pretty sure the head gasket is toast or my head is cracked. Today I filled it up in the morning, took a half gallon, then I drove it for 15 minutes and checked it again when it cooled down. It took another half gallon.
It use to loosed about an inch before I drove it up to OH from FL. But the bars leak I put in must have cured it. It wasnt till I seafoamed it that it started loosing coolant again massively.
I have no oil in my coolant or vice versa, but when I get on it or rev it up high it does puff white, and there is condensation in my tailpipe. With my exhaust leaks I could be purging it out also, or dripping it from all the holes in my muffler. Thats why Im thinking cracked head, or a leak in a galley that isnt letting the 2 fluids mix.
Tonight Im going and buying a leak tester and putting it to it. Im hoping this is what plagued all my other problems. Water getting in my combustion, wetting the plugs, not burning all the fuel and in turn running rich. Is that to crazy of a diagnosis to make?
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Doesn't seem to be. I'd hate to hear about a bad gasket, but if you've found the main problem I'm (sort of) happy for you. I don't think it's a crazy diagnosis, I've seen HGs fail in all sorts of ways. Open deck Subarus like the 16v SOHC 1.8 are good that way...really strange failures, & they keep running despite them.
Some condensation is normal though, especially when the car is cold. On crisp mornings up here you can see the steam from every car, no matter how new.
Bar's Leak isn't good for radiators...if you do determine it's the HG, you might want to replace the radiator too. They're only plastic & aluminum, not the best combination. Sorry about the SeaFoam suggestion...if it can wipe out Stop Leak I'm confident in its cleaning abilities...but maybe they're too good?
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Doesn't seem to be. I'd hate to hear about a bad gasket, but if you've found the main problem I'm (sort of) happy for you. I don't think it's a crazy diagnosis, I've seen HGs fail in all sorts of ways. Open deck Subarus like the 16v SOHC 1.8 are good that way...really strange failures, & they keep running despite them.
Some condensation is normal though, especially when the car is cold. On crisp mornings up here you can see the steam from every car, no matter how new.
Bar's Leak isn't good for radiators...if you do determine it's the HG, you might want to replace the radiator too. They're only plastic & aluminum, not the best combination. Sorry about the SeaFoam suggestion...if it can wipe out Stop Leak I'm confident in its cleaning abilities...but maybe they're too good?
Haha, yeah, seafoam FTL this time. Thanks for the heads up on the radiator, it was actually in my old one, before I made the roadtrip from FL to OH I replaced the whole cooling system after reading all the probs BMW's had with them.
As far as the problem, Ill know tomorrow, its too late for me to fire up the compressor right now. I will actually be happy to hear that its the HG, or even a cracked head. I was to the point where I was gonna give up and just buy a replacement engine. Now I might only have to replace half of it :D
I will update tomorrow after the leakdown test. I just ended up buying this one from Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=94190