M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: dsm2002 on April 14, 2009, 09:28:26 AM

Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 14, 2009, 09:28:26 AM
I am thinking about building a BMW M42 for track and race engine. I have a 318i shitter, an M42 engine and a set of E36 M3 throttle bodies picked up cheap. It is mainly just for a bit of fun. It'll take a bit of time to do this and I'll update this thread as I go.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN3726a.jpg)

The spec that I am considering is:

87 x 81 bore/stroke
34mm inlet valves, 31.5mm exhaust
Catcams 290°/275°
Shim under bucket cam followers (Eurospec)
Compression ratio: 11.5:1
head porting
4 into 1 headers
E36 M3 ITBs
Type of flywheel: initially lightened steel (later aluminium)
Max intended revs: 8500
Power to start from: 5000±

I had a fella run these specs into a engine program to estimate possible power from this proposed engine and to advise on final choices such as cams etc. Here are some indicative power and torque curves. Whether or not these figures would be realised depends on a number of variables, no the least being the porting potential.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/BMW2.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/BMW2.jpg)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: e30guydownunder on April 14, 2009, 06:26:27 PM
sounds interesting :) i'll be staying tuned into this one for sure. Let me know when you are getting the cams posted out might wanna combine on shipping.

Is this horsepower predictor on the internet or elsewhere?
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: nuvolarossa on April 15, 2009, 02:24:21 AM
I know that software :D  if you really want it you can buy it.
In your list I would say HEAVY head porting and maniacal attention to its flow... that software is VERY influenced by head flow ;)
the funny thing is that I done a similar analysis two weeks ago with same throttle bodies and same cams :)
If you watch catcams website there are for every cam all the details needed for the calculator.
I will stay tuned too :) want to see those lifters working :)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Boyracer on April 15, 2009, 06:06:58 AM
Good plan! :cool:

Dont forget that you need aftermarket forged pistons and most propably con rods too which add to expense. And I would think valve springs need to be changed too.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 15, 2009, 09:12:12 AM
Quote from: e30guydownunder;70079
sounds interesting :) i'll be staying tuned into this one for sure. Let me know when you are getting the cams posted out might wanna combine on shipping.

Is this horsepower predictor on the internet or elsewhere?

I understand it is a proprietry software package not available as freeware or non the internet.

Quote from: nuvolarossa;70118
I know that software :D  if you really want it you can buy it.
In your list I would say HEAVY head porting and maniacal attention to its flow... that software is VERY influenced by head flow ;)
the funny thing is that I done a similar analysis two weeks ago with same throttle bodies and same cams :)
If you watch catcams website there are for every cam all the details needed for the calculator.
I will stay tuned too :) want to see those lifters working :)


The port diameters used in the calcs was a inlet port average diameter of 1.7" and exhaust 1.59". No idea yet if that is possible. I had a look at the ports for the first time tonight and seem quite small.:rolleyes: Anyway it'd be good to see what I can get.

Quote from: Boyracer;70123
Good plan! :cool:

Dont forget that you need aftermarket forged pistons and most propably con rods too which add to expense. And I would think valve springs need to be changed too.


I'll be looking at forged pistons and conrods a little later. For the valve springs, I an considering MM beehive springs. Currently researching this.

I have also ordered Supertech +1mm single groove inlet and exhausts valves.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 15, 2009, 09:17:27 AM
I had been considering N62 inlet valves which are 100.04mm in length - 6.28mm less than std M42 inlet valves (106.32mm).

Now the recommended Catcam solid lifter for the M42 is CC005 which has the following specs. [Dbilas parts no. 80.500.008 for BMW 318is / VW / Audi 8V / 16V has basically the same specs as the Catcams.]

CC005 Follower specs   
External dia.   34.97mm
Internal dia.   33.0mm
External ht   26.3mm
Internal ht   14.7mm
Stud dia.   6.9mm [Dbilas 8mm]

There is another Catcams follower the CC068 which is a similar dimensions more or less, which is 5.30mm longer centre post.

CC068 Follower specs   
External dia.   34.97mm
Internal dia.   32.9mm
External ht   30.0mm
Internal ht   20.0mm
Stud dia.   7.0mm

Excluding the under bucket shim, the net height of the M42 valve and CC005 solid lifter is 106.32 + 14.7 = 121.02mm and the net height of the N62B valve and CC068 solid lifter is 120.04mm (100.04mm + 20.0mm). Nearly 1mm difference, which could be taken up with different lash caps.

Now I understand that the N62 valve has a 5,97mm stem which is undercut to 5,03 mm. Great!

Cost for me put an end to this course of action.

References:
(1) Catcams.be
(2) Boyracer's quest for NA 280 hp (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6396)
(3) Cecotto's stroker (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1385)
(4) other various sources
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 15, 2009, 09:20:28 AM
Finally, I am led to believe this is a M42 in Gerhard Landl's 318iS in the vid (see link).

Gerhard Landl BMW 318is (http://www.livevideo.com/video/94624D81D8244B12A077FD5AD3B01A15/bmw-absenger-318is.aspx)

Anyone know more about this car?
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Boyracer on April 15, 2009, 09:45:29 AM
Quote from: dsm2002;70138
I had been considering N62 inlet valves which are 100.04mm in length - 6.28mm less than std M42 inlet valves (106.32mm).

Now the recommended Catcam solid lifter for the M42 is CC005 which has the following specs. [Dbilas parts no. 80.500.008 for BMW 318is / VW / Audi 8V / 16V has basically the same specs as the Catcams.]

CC005 Follower specs   
External dia.   34.97mm
Internal dia.   33.0mm
External ht   26.3mm
Internal ht   14.7mm
Stud dia.   6.9mm [Dbilas 8mm]

There is another Catcams follower the CC068 which is a similar dimensions more or less, which is 5.30mm longer centre post.

CC068 Follower specs   
External dia.   34.97mm
Internal dia.   32.9mm
External ht   30.0mm
Internal ht   20.0mm
Stud dia.   7.0mm

Excluding the under bucket shim, the net height of the M42 valve and CC005 solid lifter is 106.32 + 14.7 = 121.02mm and the net height of the N62B valve and CC068 solid lifter is 120.04mm (100.04mm + 20.0mm). Nearly 1mm difference, which could be taken up with different lash caps.

Now I understand that the N62 valve has a 5,97mm stem which is undercut to 5,03 mm. Great!

Cost for me put an end to this course of action.

References:
(1) Catcams.be
(2) Boyracer's quest for NA 280 hp (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6396)
(3) Cecotto's stroker (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1385)
(4) other various sources


A problem you will run in is that if valve stem is 6 mm shorter, also valve spring must be 6 mm shorter because upper spring retainer (?) is attached to end of the valve stem which would be shorter than OEM.

You either have to be content with very little valve lift (maybe 5 mm) and very high seat pressure because spring are always atleast half way compressed or you need to machine springs 6 mm deeper to cylinder head, which I think might weaken the construction and maybe puncture a cooland gallery :eek:

Also, I studied the OEM M42 valves I have (I suspect N62 is same design) and they are 2 piece design, valve stem and the plate bit are made separately and they have been friction welded together. It can be a problem on very high RPM use, no fun when stem and plate separate and drop to cylinder :(

Plus, considering intake/exhaust seat insert outer diameter (you should have atleast 1 mm larger seat OD than valve OD to have sufficient strength), 34 / 31.5 mm are about as large as you can go with stock seat inserts based on my measurements. N62 intake valves are too large.

So I think I will just buy 34/31.5 mm Supertech valves for around 300€. They are same lenghts as OEM so no problem fitting then, they have waisted stems so they flow well plus they are dished design so they are light but at slight cost to compression ratio. And of course they are one piece design so they can take more RPM's than OEM valves.

This is a good thread! :o
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: kowalski on April 15, 2009, 10:03:04 AM
Quote from: dsm2002;70139
Finally, I am led to believe this is a M42 in Gerhard Landl's 318iS in the vid (see link).

Gerhard Landl BMW 318is (http://www.livevideo.com/video/94624D81D8244B12A077FD5AD3B01A15/bmw-absenger-318is.aspx)

Anyone know more about this car?

never seen that before, looks quick though
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: RouteZeroDesign on April 15, 2009, 12:34:51 PM
"Desire to turbocharge........getting weaker...."

Excellent Thread, i really hope that you succeed, and pave the way for future m42/44 barn stormers!
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: nuvolarossa on April 15, 2009, 01:19:38 PM
dsm2002, you measured the intake's and exhaust's port length in the head? I would like to know as I don't have a spare head here :( just to see if my simulations are close enough!
 
thank you and good luck!
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 15, 2009, 09:30:43 PM
The figure  used for the length of head ports from middle of the valve to the head face was an estimate of 85mm. It was the best I could do at the time.

I have since taken off the inlet and exhaust manifolds and will be taking the head off in the near future so I can measure it.

These are the base figures used for the calcs:

Bore: 87mm (87mm = 1926cc)
Stroke: 81mm
Type of piston: Short skirt
Compression ratio: 11.5:1

Diameter of the valves:
Inlet: 34mm or 35mm inlet (stock 33mm inlet)
Exhaust: 31.5mm or 32mm (30.5mm exhaust)

Length of head ports from middle of the valve to the head face: 85mm (estimate)

Inlet & exhaust port average diameters. 40.5mm average
(M42 inlet ports W51.48 x H28.17 mm x R14.85 mm). The S42 runs just over 42mm inlet ports

Type of inlet manifold: ITBs
Diameter: 50mm
Lengths: 115mm
Trumpet length: ?

Extractors: 4-2-1 (paired 1&4 and 3&2)
Primaries:
cyl 1 300mm (approx)
cyl 2 220mm (approx)
cyl 3 160mm (approx)
cyl 4 160mm (approx)
Collector length: 450mm (approx)
Diameter: 1.75mm OD

Cams: Catcams.be
Cam option 1 Inlet Exhaust
duration 290° 275°
duration [1.0mm+cl] 252° 243°
valve lift 12.00mm 11.50mm
cam lift peak angle: 106° 106°
timing: 20/52° 48/15°
lift at TDC 3.75mm 3.20mm
Shim under bucket

Cams:
Cam option 2 Inlet Exhaust
duration [0.1mm+cl] 298° 290°
duration [1.0mm+cl] 260° 252°
valve lift 12.50mm 12.00mm
cam lift peak angle: 106° 106°
timing [1.0mm+cl] 24/56° 52/20°
lift at TDC [cl=0] 4.30mm 3.70mm
Shim under bucket

Cams:
Cam option 3 Inlet Exhaust
duration [0.1mm+cl] 307° 298°
duration [1.0mm+cl] 268° 260°
valve lift [cl=0] 13.00mm 12.50mm
cam lift peak angle: 104° 104°
timing [1.0mm+cl] 30/58° 54/26°
lift at TDC [cl=0] 5.10mm 4.50mm
Shim under bucket

Adjust lobe centres?: Yes

Type of flywheel: initially lightened steel (later aluminium)
Max intended revs: 8500
Power to start from: 5000±
Conrod length: 140mm (145 aftermarket rods may be available)


Note: the rhd exhaust manifold is different the lhd one. For my sort of engine the rhd one is rubbish:

(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/2002act/DSCN3768a.jpg)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 15, 2009, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: Boyracer;70142
A problem you will run in is that if valve stem is 6 mm shorter, also valve spring must be 6 mm shorter because upper spring retainer (?) is attached to end of the valve stem which would be shorter than OEM.



Yep. I had thinking about this and, were I to go this way, was planning to buy one valve and play around with valve springs to see what sort of lift was possible. In the end the cheaper option seemed to be Supertech and it seemed to be more straight forward.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on June 30, 2009, 04:40:13 AM
UPDATE: Firstly, I had a phone call from a fabricator mate saying he has finished mounting the M3 throttle bodies onto the M42. I'll pick them up Saturday. Pics later.

I also have a engineer lined up to work the head once the TBs are fitted.

I am also slowly accumulating parts. So far, I have:

Eurospec mechanical lifters
+1mm Supertech inlet & exhaust valves & collets (single groove)
Metric Mechanic 6mm valve guides
Metric Mechanic head bolts
11129063333 Head gasket set
11111727595 Bottom end set
11111735525 Main cap bolts
11111717939 Freeze plugs, 36mm
11311247160 Timing chain
11211247338 Sprocket
11311721887 Sprocket
11311247470 Guide rail
11311721419 Guide
11311727569 Deflection wheel
11311727342 Chain tensioner
11311721641 Slide rail
11141714611 Oil pump rotor

I also have new Bilsteins, Kings Springs, 318iS 20mm/14.5mm sway bars, AKG bushes, camber/toe plates, E46/Z3 RSMs
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on July 05, 2009, 12:16:49 AM
Pics, as promised. The fabricator welded some tabs on and drilled new holes for the studs.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN4060.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN4059.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN4058.jpg)(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN4057.jpg)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Boyracer on July 05, 2009, 03:09:26 PM
Awesome to the max! :cool:

Where did you get the supertech valves and how much?
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Bunta on July 05, 2009, 04:41:28 PM
So the ports line up? the mounting is the only issue?
Simple change I might have to look into these.
Looks great, there 46mm?

Im interested to see what kind of power this thing puts down.






Hunter
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on July 05, 2009, 06:32:59 PM
The valves came from an ebay supplier - Performance Closeout. They had listed the 6 cylinder kit for the M5X and I emailed them to see if the could supply just 16 rather than 24. Price was just over $300USD. I went for the single groove valves with collets (part nos BMIVN-1031S and BMEVN-1031S) which are better for high revs.

The TBs are 50mm (huge!) ... 46mm probably would have been better. They line up but will need port matching. Everything downstream of the TBs, ie. ports, valves cams, pistons, headers, exhaust, etca. will need to will need to be appropriately worked on to use all that air from the large TBs. I have someone lined up for the head work.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: e30guydownunder on January 19, 2010, 07:56:27 PM
Any updates on this Dave?
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 20, 2010, 07:52:34 AM
I am currently fitting suspension bits: 24mm/16mm Whiteline bars, Bilstein Sports, F&R height adjusters, 300lb/450lb springs, front Noltec camber plates, Treehouse front LCA bush, AKG bushes, rear toe/cambers plates and E39 eccentric bolts.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN4102a.jpg)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: e30guydownunder on January 26, 2010, 05:20:37 PM
Those are the spring rates I am currently running, I think it is close to spot on for our less than smooth circuits :)

Keep us filled in on any progress.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dvmotorsports on January 26, 2010, 07:14:51 PM
More pics of the roundie plz.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 27, 2010, 10:32:01 AM
Here it is ...

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN1631a.jpg?t=1264609122)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN3539a.jpg?t=1264609124)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/DSCN1391a.jpg?t=1264609121)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/SSprint_1264a.jpg?t=1264609132)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on November 19, 2010, 07:02:41 PM
I need to update.  

Going slowly with my M42. I picked up a M47 crank from joe318is/Hick on R3vlimited. With 85mm pistons = 1997cc. I want to keep it under 2 litres.

I have also dropped off the head to an engine builder for some work. He is fitting the +1mm Supertech inlet & exhaust valves. I have gone for 6mm stems and have some 6mm Metric Mechanic valve guides. Once the head is done, I’ll start looking at cams, springs, pistons, rods etc.

I may be getting the head flow tested. I'll post pics and figures.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on November 19, 2010, 09:43:47 PM
One problem. The collets for the Supertech valves with 6mm valve stems do not work with the standard retainers for the E30 valves with 7mm stems. The hole is too large. I was initially thinking about getting Ti retainers. The engine builder says the M42 retainers are well made and quite light, so I have ordered some E36 retainers (11 34 1 724 991) - 6mm valve stems used after September 1992.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on December 16, 2010, 07:45:20 AM
OK the e36 retainers have arrived. They weigh about 12g compared to 19g for the E30 retainers. It looks like BMW went to a lighter retainer for the single valve springs of E36s, compared to doubles for E30s. I am not confident about using these retainers with heavier rate double valve springs. Bummer

E36 valve train (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E36/Coupe/Europe/318is-M42/1995/browse/engine/valve_timing_gear_cam_shaft/)
(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NTg2X3A=.png)

E30 valve train
 (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2-doors/Europe/318is-M42/browse/engine/valve_timing_gear_cam_shaft/)(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/MTk4X3A=.png)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 19, 2011, 09:01:53 PM
I have received a parcel from VAC Motorsport - Catcams 290/275°. :)

I am now looking at retainers and collets, forged pistons and conrods.  Schrick have advise me that Schrick 0284 13 010 retainers with either 0894 13 8K6 or 0894 13 8L6 keys/collets will be suitable.

The current spec will a stroker M42 with 88mm crank, 50mm E36 M3 TBs, mechanical lifters with under bucket shims, 34mm/31.5mm valves with single groove 6mm stems, Catcams cams 290/275°, Schmitthelm valve springs.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 19, 2011, 09:06:59 PM
I have a distraction from M42 business. The M40 in my daily driver died, so I am fitting the M52B28.

Daily:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/8aca351d.jpg)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/c2b79c7e.jpg)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: jakeb on January 19, 2011, 09:17:45 PM
you should put that stroker in the 2002....
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 19, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
I have a S14 for the 2002 :)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: e30guydownunder on January 20, 2011, 05:55:20 PM
Seen my JE pistons that arrived fro top end performance? They are pretty nice.

Ended up $810 shipped including Heavy Duty wrist pins ($60). But I didn't get any of the lightweight or Total seal ring options that you mgiht go for.

http://www.racetep.com/jebmw.html

Was very easy to deal with these guys :) Pick a bore and CR  and any of the options and go.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 21, 2011, 07:21:29 AM
Hi Chris, I have been following your build with interest. I wish I had half your skill.

The head getting done at the moment with Munyard (search on PF/BMSC). I start looking at the piston and rods when he has finished.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: e30guydownunder on January 24, 2011, 10:41:59 PM
Munyard = TK? You will have to keep me posted on the numbers the head starts with and gets afterwards.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on January 24, 2011, 10:58:35 PM
TK is in Adelaide, Munyard is in Canberra. I'll post up the results.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Slick92GS-R on January 24, 2011, 11:17:00 PM
sick !!
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 16, 2011, 01:17:49 AM
I dropped over to the head guy and the M42 is close to being finished. The porting has been done, spring seats are done. The spring pressures are 80lb closed and around 200lb open at 12mm of lift. The cc'ing of the head is 35.2cc.  It just needs assembly and checking, cleaning, and minor finshing the it is right to go.  :D

To recap, I have supertech +1mm inlet and exhaust valves with 6mm stems, schmitthelm valve springs, schrick titanium retainers, Catcams 290°/275°, mechanical lifters.

Schmitthelm valve springs were being run in 6R4 metro and DFV Cosworths.  They were reving the 6R4 metro with these springs to 13500 safely. :cool:

Better pictures to come.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: E30PQ on April 17, 2011, 11:18:18 AM
Quote from: dsm2002;100694
I have received a parcel from VAC Motorsport - Catcams 290/275°. :)

I am now looking at retainers and collets, forged pistons and conrods.  Schrick have advise me that Schrick 0284 13 010 retainers with either 0894 13 8K6 or 0894 13 8L6 keys/collets will be suitable.

The current spec will a stroker M42 with 88mm crank, 50mm E36 M3 TBs, mechanical lifters with under bucket shims, 34mm/31.5mm valves with single groove 6mm stems, Catcams cams 290/275°, Schmitthelm valve springs.


Do you mind if I ask what price range for the Cat cams?
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 17, 2011, 05:54:36 PM
Pics:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/b796cea1.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/8e74e835.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/538ce819.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/473fc026.jpg)

... and the bare head:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/02606f1f.jpg)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 21, 2011, 08:46:23 PM
I am start looking at pistons and conrods. To keep it under 2 litres, I am thinking about 85mm (85x88mm = 1997cc). [Alternatively, I could go for 87x81mm.] 85mm will allow me to use a stock size Cometic MLS.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: jscribble on April 22, 2011, 10:00:15 AM
I don't know how I missed this thread for so long, but this is AWESOME! Great work (esp. on the research) I know there is a lot of info out there for building a decently powerful M42, but this is about as realistically close to my "dream engine". Can't wait to hear it run!
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: MLM on April 25, 2011, 02:55:05 AM
Awesome project!

Possible rods in AU?

http://roccosperformance.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=147
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: wannam42 on April 27, 2011, 08:30:35 AM
Where'd you get the Schmitthelm valve springs?!
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 27, 2011, 05:41:10 PM
Quote from: wannam42;103389
Where'd you get the Schmitthelm valve springs?!


new old stock. The fella who did the head had them.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: MLM on April 30, 2011, 12:45:01 AM
Do you have (and willing to share :p) the before and after flow improvements for the porting work undertaken. % increase at various lift etc
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: jscribble on April 30, 2011, 12:51:48 AM
Quote from: MLM;103457
Do you have (and willing to share :p) the before and after flow improvements for the porting work undertaken. % increase at various lift etc


+1
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on April 30, 2011, 01:08:18 AM
No worries. Happy to share the figures.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: MLM on May 04, 2011, 04:35:49 AM
what are you doing for lifters?

Found these http://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/BMW+Hydrostoessel+SCHRICK.htm

May be a better option than using VW parts
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on May 06, 2011, 09:23:01 AM
Flow figures:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/303bb44d.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/315bd51f.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/fe397d22.jpg)

The head compares well to the S14 Evo head (see Link (http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3performance/tech_articles/engine-tech/flow-1/index.htm)), but it would be unwise to compare the figures for the M42 and S14 Evo too closely - different flow testing machine, different temperature, etc.

The head porter said if everything was optimised, cams, compression, extractors, fuel, etc, the head would be good for about 280hp or so. There is no way I'd be able to achieve anything like this. Lack of the readies $$$$.

He also said the standard M42 is quite good ... similar to other stock 2 litre 16v heads he's played with (mostly Nissan), which is notable given that it's on a 1.8 litre.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on July 05, 2011, 07:58:37 PM
Small update: M42 Carillo goodness ...

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/0b422972.jpg)

Weight each = 503 grams!
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: romkasponka on July 06, 2011, 11:13:07 AM
What was the price?
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on July 06, 2011, 06:24:43 PM
$926 Spreull Motorsport (http://www.spruellmotorsport.com/carrillo-m40m42m43m44-p-3588.html)
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: romkasponka on July 07, 2011, 03:53:46 AM
.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: fabe on August 13, 2011, 10:33:04 PM
Damn.. that's a lot of blood, sweat and $$$ going into this build....

My wishlist set up is 86 x 81 (with lightened stock crank)..

And yes, the M42 ports are bigger than average for a 1.8L motor.. it's a gem of an engine... powerful and hardy even in stock form... Mine dynoed at 126rwhp. it's a fun car to drive especially on the B-roads.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Massimo on August 28, 2011, 10:34:39 PM
Interesting build pretty much what I hope to do in a few more years. I would estimate your engine outputting about 260-270hp on the basis that you will have around 15hp/rpm/L which should be a reasonable number considering the s42 had 18hp/rpm/L and the stock M42 has about 12hp/rpm/L.

Anyways I see that you want to run possibly 87.5mm pistons that seems ambitious, that is below 4mm of thickness between cylinders. Even manufactures of wet sleeves don't recommend or make walls thinner then 4mm and I am sure modern wet sleeves are stronger then M42 walls. I would like to know what your thoughts are on this.

What hardware are you running on the bearing caps? ARP? Do you see the need of strengthening the caps e.g. bearing cap cradle? I ask this because I want to build mine up on the stock crank and 86mm custom pistons but want to run it up to 9000 possibly 9500rpm.

Well none the less this is a great build and can't wait to see the end results. If you are ever in Adelaide with the car drop me a pm ill need to check it out.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: romkasponka on August 31, 2011, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: Massimo;106415

What hardware are you running on the bearing caps? ARP? Do you see the need of strengthening the caps e.g. bearing cap cradle? I ask this because I want to build mine up on the stock crank and 86mm custom pistons but want to run it up to 9000 possibly 9500rpm.


Forget 9000 without dry sump, I wouldn't recommend more than 8500.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: Massimo on August 31, 2011, 06:22:09 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;106469
Forget 9000 without dry sump, I wouldn't recommend more than 8500.


Yes I already thought of that how I will link to together is another story but I am sure it can be done. Though will be a long term engine build due to the high $$$ envolved.
Title: Advice please
Post by: boostedbmw on September 08, 2011, 05:37:24 AM
I am so glad i found this thread and site. I am just starting down the same road with an M42 i have aquired to replace my tired M10 in my track car.  Any advice, good, bad or other you can give before i start handing out wad loads of $$$$(that i dont have).  So far i have a 90's M42, gearbox and loom from a 318is for $250, maybe a M47 crank for free, and a MoTeC M800 ECU.
My E30 currently has a 6 point cage, full Ground Control suspension and lightened to 980kg. I also have a 4.11:1 8 bolt LSD to go in when i do the swap.
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on February 02, 2012, 07:22:40 AM
small update :D

CP goodness:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/82ac7a65.jpg)
Title: Very light!
Post by: wannam42 on February 21, 2012, 04:30:09 AM
363g including the pin is very light considering s52 pistons with pin and rings weigh 433.5g (see here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7984)).

Would you mind posting the weight with pin and rings?

Would you mind going posting the piston build specs too? :D
Title: M42 race engine
Post by: MLM on March 19, 2012, 06:04:34 PM
Nice, Who did you go through to get the pistons and rods?

Did you have to spec valve clearance on the pistons?
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: Onz on June 11, 2014, 11:41:39 AM
This is a great thread.  What ever happened to this build?
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on June 30, 2016, 08:05:52 PM
OK, life got in the way for a while, but the M42 race engine project is now revived. Had a chat to Tony Knight Engines (Adelaide) about building it and he was busy for a number of months. Chatted with Neil Trama and he is free, so I have dropped a bunch of parts for him to build and engine for me.

Made a few changes which Neil has run through his engine analyser program and it seems that it could be very high 200hp - theoretical 293hp :enormousbiggrin:

Going with dry sump arrangement.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/M42%20Oil%20Pan%20-%20Copy_zpshbismwc2.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/M42%20Oil%20Pan%20inside_zpss7dvbpyw.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/SCP%20pump_zpslweddc1x.jpg)



Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: dsm2002 on June 30, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
Currently looking at the cooling system. I am planning to use a EWP and possibly other mods. As a starting point, this is the difference between the S42 head and M42.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/M42%20vs%20S42%20heads%20and%20water%20connection_zpsp86wpgew.png)

Also the stock M42 coolant flow arrangement compared to the S42:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/M42%20coolant%20flow%20diagram%20updated_zps8hrqdirf.png)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dsm2002/S42%20coolant%20flow%20diagram_zpsjwahbxpz.png)

Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: wazzu70 on July 01, 2016, 07:44:34 AM
The coolant manifolds on the head are the way to go. Wish the M42 had them.

There is the heater core outlets on the head you could maybe use to have a quasi coolant manifold. There is a big takeoff in the rear and a smaller one between 2&3 which are good places to source coolant from similar to the manifold on the S42.
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: Onz on October 14, 2016, 04:24:00 PM
Subscribing to this thread!
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: E36-italia on October 17, 2016, 09:58:57 AM
it isn't possible to set up the coollant circuit on the M42, as used on the S42?
You can take out the sensors (put them in a hose, or not use them at all) .. and the heater return/feed nipple can be taken out also to make an S42 cooling system.
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: MrPhatBob on October 24, 2016, 03:58:46 PM
That's what I was thinking when I was looking at the head yesterday - its going to need a bit of machining work to open the three (two sensor, one small outlet) holes up and some modification of the pipes at the front of the head, but that is all straightforward.
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: inline on July 26, 2017, 06:09:11 AM
this seems like an interesting build. what stage is it upto?

what sort of head flow numbers did the porter achieve?
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: Nicolai-Denmark on November 17, 2017, 03:36:10 PM
this seems like an interesting build. what stage is it upto?

what sort of head flow numbers did the porter achieve?

Is it just me or is all the pic's gone?
Can't see any of them...

BTW Any update on the build, im corrently stroking my m42, going s50 itbs and so on :)
Title: Re: M42 race engine
Post by: lambertius on June 27, 2018, 04:49:55 AM
this seems like an interesting build. what stage is it upto?

what sort of head flow numbers did the porter achieve?

Is it just me or is all the pic's gone?
Can't see any of them...

BTW Any update on the build, im corrently stroking my m42, going s50 itbs and so on :)

There are better ITB options than using the S50 http://www.m42club.com/forum/index.php?topic=18442.0