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DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: HaNasich on March 13, 2009, 10:23:08 AM

Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 13, 2009, 10:23:08 AM
my dearest and nearest got DASC in the last three weeks.

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/DASC%20Installation/IMG_7763.jpg)


today i first drove it and i noticed the following:
1. when engine is cool / hasn't reached working temp everything is awesome.
2. when engine is at normal working temp - it pings when i accelerate.

when this happens i depress gas pedal a little and it stops. from certain RPM it doen not happen.

any ideas what should i check?


(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/DASC%20Installation/IMG_7775.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/DASC%20Installation/IMG_7760.jpg)

thanks


Ron.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: rob_e30 on March 13, 2009, 02:05:35 PM
What octane fuel are you running?  Have you done anything to the ECU to help it address the boost?  I'm not sure if these kits come with a chip or an ignition retard device but it sounds like you have too much timing at operating temp.

If you can get some 100 octane gas, run it and see if that helps solve the problem.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: bearsbmw on March 13, 2009, 02:20:39 PM
what spark plug's are you running? check your fuel pressure while under boost and get a boost gauge..is the crank pully stock?.. from the looks of where you sucking air from it's going to be prity damn hot .... no air filter?

Looks like your PCV is connected to your ICV ... doesnt look right to me
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: ludiagsm on March 13, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
Quote from: rob_e30;68240
What octane fuel are you running?  Have you done anything to the ECU to help it address the boost?  I'm not sure if these kits come with a chip or an ignition retard device but it sounds like you have too much timing at operating temp.

If you can get some 100 octane gas, run it and see if that helps solve the problem.


+1
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: nuvolarossa on March 13, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
the kit runs only with the RRFPR (rising rate fuel pressure regulator), so stock ecu timing.
This is a band aid solution and at least check that it's giving the right pressure, to obtain a good air fuel ratio under boost!
 
so you need a fuel pressure gauge or better a wideband o2 sensor with gauge, to see the air/fuel ratio under boost.
 
A lot of DASC use only the RRFPR and pinging is not normal.
- Are you sure that you are running the right pulley, as I see that you converted it to v-belts pulleys... if you are running more boost than RRFPR stock setting it will run lean and it will ping..
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 13, 2009, 05:33:15 PM
ok. some answers:
1. the pictures was taken during installation. i will post updated pictures later on, the looks now is all corrected.
2. the PCV and ICV both connect to the same input in the intake manifold, this is the way DASC manual is instructing and it works ok as the engine idle correct
3. the engine in the car is an E36 1995, you can see the thread about the swap here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4414)
so it has a serpentine belt from stock - meaning that all pulleys are stock as well.
4. i am using the recommended spark plugs for E36 M42 engine from Bosch, they are a year old and has about 6K miles of running time
5. gas im using is 95 octane. i have about a half a tank left, should i try adding methanol  to boost up the octane?

now for some more questions -
how can i test fuel pressure? (i have compressions test kit, can that help?)
is there any way to tell weather the RRFPR is working ok?


Ron.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: Boosted E30 on March 13, 2009, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: bearsbmw;68242
what spark plug's are you running? check your fuel pressure while under boost and get a boost gauge..is the crank pully stock?.. from the looks of where you sucking air from it's going to be prity damn hot .... no air filter?

Looks like your PCV is connected to your ICV ... doesnt look right to me


+1 definatly you have some hoses hooked up wrong you cant run your crank case breather through your idle valve.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 13, 2009, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: Boosted E30;68259
+1 definatly you have some hoses hooked up wrong you cant run your crank case breather through your idle valve.


please re-read my latest answer - the pics are "during work" not final.
current setup has all piping routed correct.



Ron.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: bearsbmw on March 13, 2009, 06:20:33 PM
Ok I understand how the PCV is routed now ... I didnt see the T fitting at first ... you defently can't run stock m42 spark plugs with a supercharger or turbo setup... you need to go 1-2 deg colder plug or you will pre det for sure!~
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: Hodge on March 13, 2009, 08:53:08 PM
Also, you don't have knock sensors, so I bet your running a bit lean maybe?

I throw an 02/Knock Control code at extended idle periods because it runs a little rich.

I never hear pinging in my car and I just installed it 3 weeks ago as well.

Also, you really need to work that intake out better and need to get a filter on that AFM stat.

I have a pretty good suggestion to clean up the install a little bit, since I just went through this as well kind of:

1) Flip your Intake bellow around, and route the ICV and its connected hoses on top of the S/C. This is how Downing specifies to do it in the manual

2) Doing this will allow your AFM to sit better and not on top of the radiator.

3) Re-work the Crank case vent, PCV, and ICV locations. Refer to my pic below.

4) What is that spring-clip plug sitting on top of the intake bellow?

NOTE: AFM plug was NOT cut and spliced in these photos yet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/DASC/DSC01390.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Disastr20/DASC/DSC01395.jpg)
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: rob_e30 on March 14, 2009, 07:51:35 AM
The only way to measure fuel pressure is with a fuel pressure gauge.  You can get one used for testing and tape it to the windshield.  You will see the fuel pressure rise and fall with boost.

You might try this plug... it's two rangers cooler than stock:
Iridium IX BKR 8 EIX  #2668
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: Boosted E30 on March 14, 2009, 10:35:19 AM
Quote from: HaNasich;68261
please re-read my latest answer - the pics are "during work" not final.
current setup has all piping routed correct.



Ron.



sorry you must have posted right before me.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 15, 2009, 01:58:00 AM
since i could not find any NGK in the shops near me i went for the other option and filled my tank with 98 octane fuel.
the car did go better and pinging is now only in a narrow range of RPM in 4th and 5th gear.
still i do not like it and i will go and get the NGK spark plugs today.


i do have some questions though:
there is this plug - NGK BKR7E which is 2$ everywhere i look.
there's this NGK's BKR7EIX-11  which is supposed to be the same but from irridium

Boosted E30 is talking about going two steps cooler to the  ridium IX BKR 8 EIX #2668

which is the best one?


Ron.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: rob_e30 on March 15, 2009, 08:31:24 AM
The BKR6E is the stock plug according to the NGK website.  A BKR8 would be two steps cooler.  The -11 is the gap.
Check out their guide here...

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/tech/partnumberkey.pdf

You can also look at their website to get info on Iridium versus their other plugs.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 15, 2009, 08:52:23 AM
is there any gap recommendations for those spark plugs? should i leave them stock?
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: bearsbmw on March 18, 2009, 04:24:44 PM
How is she running now?
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 19, 2009, 02:09:30 AM
currently - no change.
i just went from 95 octane fuel to 98.
hearable pinging is almost gone.
i also bought Innovate LM-1 (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php) and i will be installing it tomorrow in order to get better figures of the Air/Fuel ration that im running.
i looked as the injectors on my car and stragnly they are not all with the same p/n.
3 of them are from XXX.XXX p/n and one ends with XXXXXXX245.

the options for me are like this:
1. install a xxxxxxxx.990 dme on my car - which support pinging detection
2. learn a/f ratio and try to fix it using the RRFPR
3. change spark plugs
4. use 98 fuel only in my car

options 3 and 4 will be implemented starting tomorrow (i will keep this post updated) and later on i will add option 1 while leaving option 2 for "R&D" use only :)



Ron.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: nuvolarossa on March 19, 2009, 02:23:00 AM
write here the exact part number of those injectors to see if they flow the same.
 
Install the LM-1 as Innovate instructions and check the air fuel ratio through all the range, or better record a log of third-fourth gear from low to revlimiter and then post it here.
 
So we will know if the problem is the fueling or if it's other.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: ludiagsm on March 19, 2009, 03:33:01 AM
Pls give us  a last new pictures from your engine bay , i think that your iddle speed motor is not on his right place ,he must do a baipas the drossel valve nothing more , the karter gases must be taken out free to the athmosfere or on their road you can use oilcatch can and than free in atmosfere (hot carter gases in your intake can be  a reason for pinging too) .

   And one more question do you have any performance chip on your car what is your rev limiter moust of performance chps for 318is has high ignition advance witch is bad for boosted engine and pinging that you had may be becouse of that if you dont have special chip for boosted aplication with retarded advance you must run with original chip.

pp:sorry for my einglish hope you anderstand
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 19, 2009, 04:06:40 AM
Nuvolarossa - i will upload the info tomorrow.
i am going to mount the WB sensor in the end of the exhaut pipe, my car has no cat. converter and i dont have an easy access to install a bung underneath the car.

in case anyone has info about how can connect the RPM meter (http://tunertools.com/proddetail.asp?prod=IN-3726) to my car as well - it will be great - i will be able to monitor where exactly do i have the problem.

LudiaGSM - the engine and DME in my car is stock.
management is from 1990 318IS and engine is 1995 M42 DISA
i will post later on a current picture of my engine bay.
at first the ICV and engine carter gases where connected together using a T connector without the PCV and it made the engine idle rough.
now they are connected together, but the PCV is installed between the engine breather and the T connector and the cars idle smooth.


Ron.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: rob_e30 on March 19, 2009, 09:00:25 AM
Quote from: HaNasich;68554

...
the options for me are like this:
1. install a xxxxxxxx.990 dme on my car - which support pinging detection
2. learn a/f ratio and try to fix it using the RRFPR
3. change spark plugs
4. use 98 fuel only in my car

options 3 and 4 will be implemented starting tomorrow (i will keep this post updated) and later on i will add option 1 while leaving option 2 for "R&D" use only :)...


I know those look like options to you, but I would do all of them.  The only thing I would consider as an option would be #4 but I would run the good gas until you know the problem is solved.
Title: Engine pinging after DASC installation...
Post by: HaNasich on March 19, 2009, 03:05:10 PM
Hi Rob
i think my that my words wasn't as clear - in options i meant measure to take in order to have my engine run correct, not as a "nice to have" stuff.
my car is and will be running on 98 octane fuel.
it will take me some time to get a XXXXXX990 DME since M42 is pretty rare in my country and from what i could locate on Ebay you could get one for 50$ or for 250$ - depend on how patient you are.


im attaching a picture of my current engine bay.
please note that the vacuum and cooling hoses are a bit different.
i had to modify the stock cooling hose sent in the DASC kit (i only used 2/3 of it and had to make it 10cm long in some part to have it connect to my radiator) - cooling configuration is as for "tropical weather" aka large radiator.
the dirt near the radiator cap is for me fixing my heater core at the same time (piping was connected the other way around) and alot of debris was coleted than.

i also fixed the mounting for the ingnition coil for a permanent metal one.


Ron.