M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: halcrontech on March 09, 2009, 08:47:09 PM

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: halcrontech on March 09, 2009, 08:47:09 PM

I found this website selling flat top solid lifters meant for VW engines. I read that VW lifters are suitable for M42 engines as well. I am wondering if these lifters could be used in our engines.

http://www.crespocams.com/servlet/Detail?no=190

He has an ad on ebay as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-VW-8v-Racing-FLAT-TOP-Mechanic-Follower-Lifter-Set_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem360130547287QQitemZ360130547287QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: Boyracer on March 10, 2009, 02:39:45 AM

Outside diameter and height seem correct and I think they will fit just fine from that point of view.

Problem is that the stem inside lifter is too short, from lifter top to stem tip about 5 mm if I read correctly. M42 OEM valves require about 14 mm stem height.

Here you can see both short and long stem VW solid lifters:

http://www.rosten-performance.com/pages/solid_lifters.html

The one's at the top are those you want with OEM valves :)

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: Boyracer on March 10, 2009, 02:41:48 AM

Also, the Crespo lifters you found are almost 60 grams which is about same as OEM E36 M42 hydraulic lifter without oil. You can convert OEM lifters to solids that weight pretty close to that 60 grams.

Lifters on my link are under 50 grams :)

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: halcrontech on March 10, 2009, 03:17:13 AM

Wow Nice. Thanks!! Btw. What modifications must I do to my cams to be used with these lifters? I am using schrick cams. Also do I need to buy the lash caps as well or just the lifters will do?

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: Boyracer on March 10, 2009, 04:57:31 AM

Shrick cams are meant for hydraulic lifters. Solid lifters require different cam profile. Not sure what will happen if you run solid lifters with hydro cam... But basically to be on the safe side, you should get cam that is meant for solid lifters or get your current cam regrinded for them.

You also need lash caps between lifter stem and valve stem. They need to be grinded to correct thickness by you to allow proper lifter / cam clearance.

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: romkasponka on March 10, 2009, 05:11:08 AM

Quote from: Boyracer;68024

Shrick cams are meant for hydraulic lifters. Solid lifters require different cam profile. Not sure what will happen if you run solid lifters with hydro cam... But basically to be on the safe side, you should get cam that is meant for solid lifters or get your current cam regrinded for them.

You also need lash caps between lifter stem and valve stem. They need to be grinded to correct thickness by you to allow proper lifter / cam clearance.

What is diferent on cams for solid lifters? My point of view is that solid lifters can handle all cams, but for hydraulic lifters acceleratios and forces could be to high if you take very wide and high lift cams.

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: Boyracer on March 10, 2009, 05:21:24 AM

My understanding is that solid cam profiles have profile that first gently takes up the gap (about 0.2 - 0.3 mm when cold) between cam and lifter before cam actually starts to lift. Hydraulic cams start to lift right away. Maybe if there is gap and the lift starts too quickly the cam of lifter surfaces can be damaged?

I am not 100% sure about that, that's what I have read from books. I should have a talk with the cam grinder about this, I bet he knows thing or two :)

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: romkasponka on March 10, 2009, 05:31:19 AM

What cams specification you are thinking about? Is it close to 300deg? :)

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: Boyracer on March 10, 2009, 05:46:55 AM

Not yet sure what can be done from OEM cam profile by just grinding... But 280 degrees is about minimum to get the engine breath enough so that there is any sense of revving the engine past 8000 rpm :)

S42 engines has about 312 intake / 304 exhaust cams...

Title: Solid Flat Top Lifters!
Post by: nuvolarossa on March 10, 2009, 07:25:01 AM

Just to add some specs...

Catcams make camshafts for M42 with 7mm steams and solid lifters:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/th_catcamsM42.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/?action=view¤t=catcamsM42.jpg)
 
Here are the specs for the lifter that they use for 7mm valves:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/catcams-m42follower.jpg)
 
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The thing that surprise me is that they do "crazy" cams for the M44 head, they say that solid followers are needed (but they don't sell them...) and 3,95kg/mm single spring needed with the 312°/304° camshaft.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/th_catcamsM44.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/?action=view¤t=catcamsM44.jpg)