M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: 318isfolife on February 23, 2009, 01:41:06 PM
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i searched and could not find a thread on this so here we go... which engine oil do you guys think is the best. i have always used castrol syntec 10w-40 and redline 10w-40 and will continue to use castrol syntec 10w-40 no matter what anyone says because i have no oil burning issues and my engine looks absolutely amazing inside at 103xxx and i drive VERY HARD EVERY TIME i get in my car.
but anyways just wondering what you all use what your opinions are on the subject since i could not find another thread in here about this.
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I've had no problems with general cheap engine oil, admittedly my engine has only been run on it (guaranteed) for the last 10K miles. I used stuff by a company called planet, that is really comma 10-40w, it even says so on the bottle! As I don't race, and the only thrashing my car gets is when I'm on a drift day, I think thats fine by me. Interested to know the 'best' oil though!
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yeah the whole reason i ask this because when ever someone asks me i say mobil 1 and castrol they both have been around since forever and i figure hey they must be doing something right if they have been around that long you know. plus the other tech at my shop said he heard mobil 1 changed there chemical makeup up and its not real synthetic and blah blah blah but thats just what he heard so i figured might as well see whats you guys think.
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Whatever 5w40 synthetic is cheaper. Diesel ratings preferred. Change it every 5-7k or whenever I get around to it.
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yeah i used to use the 5w 40 from castrol i hear its better for the tappets because of the viscosity but then i just was like i beat the crap out of this car and they recommend that damn 15w 50 for my heat range so i figured i would find a nice common ground
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I use 20w50 syntec. I think I was having some consumption issues with 10W40. Pretty sure those are lessened now if not entirely gone. I have records from the BMW dealer here in town when the car was only a couple years old that indicate they were doing oil changes with 20W50. The motor now has 208k miles on it.
So BMW thinks it's an acceptable weight for an M42 used in this climate.
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yeah thats some thick stuff but i guess you need it out there it probably gets really hot
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15/50 mobil one changed every 5 thousand miles if I put that many miles on a year ,if not then every spring.
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There is a post on this forum from a Petro-Chemist. He recommended Shell Rotella 5W-40. That's all I've used and haven't looked back.
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I use 10w30 Mobile1 synthetic every 6k.
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15W-50 Mobil 1, change it every 10k miles. I usually have to add 2 quarts over that 10k stretch.
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Mobile 1 10w40 High Mileage synthetic, changed about every 5k.
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Castol syntec 0w30 in the winter and 5w40 in the summer. Might try rotella this summer.
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Whatever reputable synthetic I can find (Mobil 1 , Syntec, etc...) in the viscosity range I need at the time: 5W40 winter and 15W50 summer. Oil changes are done quarterly with estimated annual mileage at ~15500. (Thus far I've owned the car for 313 days and have driven it 13352 miles).
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I've been using either Mobil 1 or Castrol synthetic, usually 10W40 in the winter and 15W50 in the summer. CHanged about every 10K.
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wow you guys are crazy going 5-8k on oil lol, i work at a oil change place ( not just oil but every other fluid) i personaly wouldnt even push 5k for same oil syn or not. ok so yea 5/40 is good its recommended for turbo deisels or new bmw's, but dependeding where you live if its hot or cold, if it really hot the 5/40 or 10/40 is no problem, if its cold use teh 0/40 its made for easy starts and better emmisions. but threw my years working at this place, personly your best bet if ur allways pushing ur car use a /50 , M1 makes a 15/50 made for high reving/turbo/ super charger apps. thats just my personal input. and for all bmw's 95 and up are all syn im sure u can run base oil and fuk ur shit up with a gang of slug or not. most older bmw's (m20's) use 20/50 cuz they burn like crazy. ur your not going with syn ur best bet is to use ( Delo 15/40 ) has alot of additives allready in it its what deisels take ( btw are bulk oil is all Chevron) ive heard alot about penzoil have wax in their oil , other syns besides m1 rairly do we use. liek i said b4 just a lil input from ur local Lube Tech haha :D
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15W-50 Mobil 1, change it every 10k miles. I usually have to add 2 quarts over that 10k stretch.
how often do you go 10K? half a year 1/4? dam dude that pushing oil to the limit , and ur burning 2qts. try adding some teflon based additive so it slow burning and reduces the sludge build up and werd of advice dont go 10K on same oil thats just bad, thats like waering ur same underwear for a week , its not right haha and oil is cheap take advantge b4 the price goes up , u can get 5qts of m1 at a walmart for 25bux and ur filter for 5:D
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You guys over the pond change oil FAR more than we do over here. Personally my oil was being topped up, barely ever changed due to oil leak in like, 10K miles, but now thats stopped it'll be around 5K miles. Everyone who knows nothing about cars gets it done at the service, which can be from 2K miles to 15K miles! Its ridiculous!
If people took better care, cars'd last longer.
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i change oil every 3000 or when ever i look at it and see how burnt it might be. Better to change more often than a long time, allways better in the long run and ur car performs smoother, but yea some people just dont car and take it the limit, oil also turns into acidtic acid over time thats not good eather
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iīve been using Mobil 1 15w/50 synthetic for quite some time now, like someone said, itīs about $25 at walmart, you canīt beat that. Changed it every 3K or so, with mahle filter.
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i change oil every 3000 or when ever i look at it and see how burnt it might be. Better to change more often than a long time, allways better in the long run and ur car performs smoother, but yea some people just dont car and take it the limit, oil also turns into acidtic acid over time thats not good eather
With all due respect, you simply cannot evaluate the condition of your oil by its appearance. I have a used oil analysis performed at every oil change of my wife's X3 and my Mazdaspeed 3(MPS to our British friends). I run Mobil 1 0W-40 in the X3 and the UOAs indicate that a 9,000 mile oil change interval is perfectly safe. I run Mobil 1 5w-30 in the Mazdaspeed and the UOAs show that a 5,000 mile OCI is very conservative- even after the car has seen an HPDE or two. In my opinion you are literally pouring money down the drain when you change synthetic oil every 3,000 miles. If you insist on changing your oil so frequently I'm certain that any conventional SM-rated oil will prove to be more than adequate.
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well the oil can last that long but think about long term effects, burnt oil builds sludge and varnish build up, you dont want that at all. and really oil dosnt cost much u spend mayb 30 USD every 2-3 months depending how much u drive , its well worth it, unless your leik teh people who come into my a job like mine, we service cars we charge 8 USD per qt of syn on top on the reg service so ppl spend like 80 bux but if you do it ur self then its no biggy. even easier on the 93 and up all canister top side filters and u have one 17m drain plug. I see people come in with nice clean engs and pretty clean oil when draining, then i see others that go 5000 miles and its burnt and black. non burnt oil should have a goldist tent not black. thats my opion on oil etc. better safe than sorry and maintane your car , parts last longers
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With all due respect, you simply cannot evaluate the condition of your oil by its appearance. I have a used oil analysis performed at every oil change of my wife's X3 and my Mazdaspeed 3(MPS to our British friends). I run Mobil 1 0W-40 in the X3 and the UOAs indicate that a 9,000 mile oil change interval is perfectly safe. I run Mobil 1 5w-30 in the Mazdaspeed and the UOAs show that a 5,000 mile OCI is very conservative- even after the car has seen an HPDE or two. In my opinion you are literally pouring money down the drain when you change synthetic oil every 3,000 miles. If you insist on changing your oil so frequently I'm certain that any conventional SM-rated oil will prove to be more than adequate.
I hear you, well like i said everyone is diffrnt on how they do it, ive been doing this for over two years and after seeing guest cars come in some serviced on time some over the miles or a year and you notic the build up , if you looking 80% of owners books for cars you see thay say every 6000 miles but really thats not good , its the same for people never changing their coolant, in their book says 100,000 miles , really would you do that or would you change more often to make sure that rust dosnt build up or anything, go for any fluid, really it all depends on how teh persong drives teh car, if thier hard on it then fluids fail, but still to maintane a clean running eng better to change b4 what it calls for , just my 2 cents
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My 318ti has over 112,000 miles and gets oil changes at @7,500 mile intervals; a look under the oil filler cap shows that the camshafts and upper cylinder head area are completely free of sludge and varnish. Ditto for my 1999 Wrangler which gets 8,000(or annual) changes. Yes, I'm bit of an oil geek, but when all is said and done it boils down to what OCI you are comfortable with. In my case I believe that an OCI of 5,000-9,000 miles-depending on the car-is perfectly safe. My UOAs bear this out; here are my two latest reports for the X3 and Mazda:
(http://www.carspace.com/roadburner/Albums/roadburner%27s%20Album/X3UOA4.JPG)
(http://www.carspace.com/roadburner/Albums/roadburner%27s%20Album/MS3UOA5.JPG)
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your aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, lead, tin counts on this graph are really high. Thats what you need to be looking at when you get these graphs back. You should try syntec or redline the counts of all these materials is way lower.
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i use lubro moly 10/40 for high mile engines and or lazy asses that only changes their oil every 10k miles(raises hand lol) along with the lubro moly service pack.
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There is a post on this forum from a Petro-Chemist. He recommended Shell Rotella 5W-40. That's all I've used and haven't looked back.
That post is an EXCELLENT read. Can't find it but it's worth searching for.
I believe he also recommended something with an API rating of SG...only ones I can find at the store with this rating are motorcycle oils. Are those safe to put in our engines?
First oil change I've done was with a 20w-50 oil...the Valvoline VR-1 or something for "racing." Used it because it said it has added ZDDP, although I'm sure it's probably not up to snuff with what this guy was recommending. This motor leaks quite a bit, and is generally going to see either fun/spirited driving or autocross/track, so my next change I'm going to look for some straight SAE 50 weight.
One thing I'd like to know...what filter are you guys running?
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i use mann filter because i get a super great discount on them thru work.
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What is a Used Oil Analysis (UOA), and where/how/why is it done?
It is an analysis of used engine oil performed at a lab. Customers collect some of their used oil, usually during the oil change, and send it in to the lab to be analyzed. Two of the most popular testing labs are:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
http://www.dysonanalysis.com/index.html
After running several tests on the oil sample sent to them, the lab sends the customer a data sheet which reveals the condition of the oil and any problems occurring within the engine. The amount of engine wear that took place while using the oil is related to the amount of certain metals found in the used oil. The metals found in the used oil come from engine wear, and an oil that offers good protection will have low numbers of these metal particles in it. A UOA will also show how much the oil sheared down with use, and if it is safe to use it or a longer oil change interval. A Used Oil Analysis also highlights the condition of the engine and identifies any potential problems that may be developing by detecting the presence of any dirt, anti-freeze, sludge or fuel in the oil.
Where are the UOA results posted?
The UOA results are collected in comparison charts attached below. The charts list the average result for each oil tested, including the amount of engine wear that took place using the oil, the oil’s ability to resist shear, and the amount of active additive left in the oil. The individual UOA results are posted throughout this thread as they are submitted by members. Only current formulations of oil are included in the comparison charts attached below.
How do I read the attached UOA Comparison Charts?
The name and weight of each oil tested is at the top of the comparison charts. The column below it shows the average mileage on that particular oil, followed by any amount of make-up oil added during the average oil change interval. This is important to look at when comparing oils, as an oil that has just 1,000 miles on it when tested will obviously fare better than an oil that has 9,000 miles on it when tested, even if it is not really a better performing oil. The next part (The Grey Section) of the column contains the elements found in the used oil, measured in parts per million (ppm). This reflects the type and amount of metals that were worn off of engine parts. Lower levels of metals are better. The bottom of the column (The Red Section) shows the oil viscosity and TBN of the oil after use.
Where exactly do the traces of metals come from, and how do they indicate engine wear?
The most common metals in your used oil and where they come from are listed below. These metals come off of different parts of your engine during operation. Your oil protects the surfaces of your engine from wear, but some oils do a better job of others. Oils that have low numbers of these metals did a good job of protecting the engine’s surfaces from wearing down with use. So look for an oil that shows low numbers of these elements:
Iron: Comes from cylinder liner, camshaft, oil pump, and timing chain wear
Chromium: Comes from piston ring wear
Copper: Comes from bearings, valve guides, and bushings wear
Lead: Comes from bearing wear
Aluminum: Comes from piston and piston thrust bearing wear
Silver & Tin: Comes from bearing wear
Which metals are the most important to have low numbers?
I look for the lowest possible numbers of Lead, Copper, and Chromium in the oil sample to indicate better protection of critical areas. The bearings and piston rings are not just critical areas because of their function, they are critical to protect because they comprise a much smaller amount of the total engine mass than Iron and Aluminum parts. 5ppm wear of Lead off a relatively tiny bearing is a much higher percentage of wear than 5ppm of Iron would be from all the Iron found in the crankshaft, camshafts, timing chain, etc... The same principle applies to the piston rings, where 2ppm of Chromium is considered high wear for such a small part.
Where do the other elements come from, and do they indicate engine wear?
The only other element to look for in low numbers, in addition to the wear metals listed above, is silicon. High silicon could mean a bad air or oil filter is not trapping dirt. The other trace elements are usually part of an additive package that oils use, and are not from engine wear. Looking at the numbers of these other elements can be useful in determining if a manufacturer has changed their formula, or to see what type of additives they use. The most common other elements found in an oil sample and what they commonly indicate are:
Silicon: dirt ingestion, sometimes used as an anti-foamant
Molybdenum: anti-wear additive and friction reducer
Boron: anti-wear additive and friction reducer
Calcium: common additive with many functions, primarily a detergent
Magnesium: common additive with many functions
Phosphorous: anti-wear additive and friction reducer, shear stabilizer
Zinc: anti-wear additive and friction reducer, shear stabilizer
What do the viscosity numbers mean, and how do I read them?
The viscosity numbers are from a specific test to determine the viscosity of an oil at a given temperature, as measured in cSt (centistokes). A higher number means a thicker oil at operating temperature, and a lower number means a thinner oil at operating temperature. A higher or lower number is neither good or bad in and of itself, it is merely a measure of the oil’s viscosity. Some oils thinned out, or sheared, from use and became thinner than their original grade. For example, a used 30wt oil might have viscosity numbers which correlate with a 20wt oil, indicating it is prone to shearing in the VQ.
Are higher or lower TBN numbers better, and why don’t all the oil results have a TBN number?
All engine oils break down with use and time. The result is an accumulation of acids in the oil. These acids are what form sludge. The oil’s base stock and the additives in the oil work together to help prevent sludge from forming. The Total Base Number (TBN) is a measure of how well the formulation is working to fight sludge and acid build-up. A high TBN means there is more base than acid in the used oil. A lower TBN number means more acids formed over time than in an oil with a higher TBN. The TBN of a used oil is a good indication of how robust the oil is for extended oil change intervals, with higher TBN numbers indicating an oil is good for longer oil change intervals. It usually costs extra to get a TBN test done, so not all of the samples have a TBN value.
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I believe he also recommended something with an API rating of SG...only ones I can find at the store with this rating are motorcycle oils. Are those safe to put in our engines?
One thing I'd like to know...what filter are you guys running?
I graduated from MMI so i'm really supposed to be bike tech even though i work on cars now LOL. but anywho they always talked about how using car oils in motorcycles is the worst idea ever because the engines have such close tolerances. the oils won't be able to stand the harsh environment. but as for motorcycle oil in cars not to sure. i know a quart of synthetic oil for a bike is like 18 dollars so it would not be worth the money at all.
as for oil filters i use mahle just because its oem and from my work its like 4 dollars.
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your aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, lead, tin counts on this graph are really high. Thats what you need to be looking at when you get these graphs back. You should try syntec or redline the counts of all these materials is way lower.
How did you reach the conclusion that those numbers are "really high"? Read the UOAs again- with the exception of iron in the MS3 UOAs, every metal number is at or below the universal averages for these engines. And if you read Blackstone's comments you'll find that they didn't find any red flags either.
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I graduated from MMI so i'm really supposed to be bike tech even though i work on cars now LOL. but anywho they always talked about how using car oils in motorcycles is the worst idea ever because the engines have such close tolerances. the oils won't be able to stand the harsh environment. but as for motorcycle oil in cars not to sure. i know a quart of synthetic oil for a bike is like 18 dollars so it would not be worth the money at all.
You might want to read this Motorcycle Consumer News article (http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html). Some automotive oils may cause problems in some bikes with wet clutches, but the issues have nothing to do with the so-called "close tolerances" of motorcycle engines.
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i run castrol gtx 20-50 anti sludge formula.
i change my oil roughly every 2500 miles, because my car see's 7000rpm's multiple times daily...anything you run hard, you should keep good oil in it...unless its a 325eta or something ;)
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You might want to read this Motorcycle Consumer News article (http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html). Some automotive oils may cause problems in some bikes with wet clutches, but the issues have nothing to do with the so-called "close tolerances" of motorcycle engines.
just giving my two cents you can take it or leave it.
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but again that's all i have is two cents right? lol
by the way what kinda of motorcycle were they testing this on? and how come mobil 1 is the only oil with different viscosity/weight than all the other oils they tested?
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next time i change my oil i might try something different. ive got castrol 10/50 at the shop that we use in dinosaur burners.
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next time i change my oil i might try something different. ive got castrol 10/50 at the shop that we use in dinosaur burners.
hahaha lol yeah that is some thick stuff. what is a dinosaur burner haha. that made me laugh so hard.
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diesels. dino burners lol
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hahaha thats a good one i have to get a sticker made that says that and stick it on my friends diesel.
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because my car see's 7000rpm's multiple times daily
sweet +1