M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: Interlocker on June 28, 2006, 12:30:23 AM
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I only found one brake pad thread in the archives, and it seems that the Axxis Ultimates might be the performance pad of choice.
What else are people running, and what do you think of them? Whatever the previous owner put on seem rather horrible, and there's only a few mm of material left. There's no initial bite (fluid was just flushed/changed and the effort wasn't effected, unfortunately) and they don't really start to slow you down until you REALLY put some leg into it.
I generally like pads with good initial bite in order to accomodate easy heel/toe downshifts, and that can stand up to a little bit of track use here and there, but not often with this car.
Any input is welcome! Also, I think I heard somewhere that the pedal engagement might be adjustable in the E30s? :confused:
Thanks! :D
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I run Ultimates.
Damn nice pads. Last a long time as well.
Awesome brakes, they grip much harder, especially on initial bite. You can tell a definate difference.
Pedal height is adjustable.
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Out of the three I've tried (mintex, EBC, and stock), EBC has been the best. I got the greenstuff pads and they were pretty good. Stock comes second, then Mintex red box. Mintex SUCKED, they have no bite and they overheat really easily. I have no idea why people like them actually. I hear that Hawk and Ferodo pads are pretty sweet too, but they're a little more pricey.
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Thanks! A friend of mine who runs DasAutoSport.com stocks the Axxis Ultimates and a few others (though not listed on his site, since he doesn't get a lot of E30 traffic), but the Axxis pads had the best price of the bunch, so that's what I ordered. Everything I've found online has been positive on these, so I'll give feedback once on the car.
In the meantime, does anyone have instructions on how to adjust the brake pedal height? I haven't found anything in the archives or the How-To section, unless I missed it.
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I think there is a rod at the top of the pedal you adjust. There is a how-to online, maybe at Pelican Parts?
When you first get the pads, make sure you are ready the first time you slam them, they grip hard. If you let another e30 guy drive it who is used to cheap pads, warn them.
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I think there is a rod at the top of the pedal you adjust. There is a how-to online, maybe at Pelican Parts?
When you first get the pads, make sure you are ready the first time you slam them, they grip hard. If you let another e30 guy drive it who is used to cheap pads, warn them.
Thanks for the reference (forgot about Pelican) and the warning. :eek: :D Sounds like exactly what I'm hoping for, so I'm looking forward to it... and I'm somewhat used to the drop-the-anchor brake feel from the M3, so it's what I already have my foot programmed for. ;)
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Axxis Ultimates here as well. I have used Pagis Sports, OEM, and these. Axxis pads are by FAR the best, and the least dusty. I thought about EBC pads, but I heard they dusted horribly. Lord knows the Pagids did.
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Just came across this graph:
(http://images4.fotki.com/v39/photos/8/82805/318161/img_graph_cmpnd_comp-vi.gif)
It would appear that both Hawk and Ferodo make a better street pad than Axxis, in both coefficent of friction and critical temperature. I just talked to a motorsport buddy of mine and he said he'd go w/ the Ferodo DS2500s any day over both the Axxis and the Hawks.
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I love my hawk hps's
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How about porterfield?
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That chart is pure bullshit. Why? Because without numbers the difference betweeen each pad may 5psi or 5 degrees F. Or it could be 500. You simply do not know. Without those numbers it is all marketing bullshit. The chart does not even really tell you what you are looking at. Fuck charts and diagrams, they can say anything they want. Numbers CAN lie.
Even worse, how is the pedal feel? Initial bite? Cold braking? I have heard some pads barely stop at all when cold. A chart, especiallythat one, tells you nothing. OOOH, look at the pretty colors! Someone learned how to make a chart in C.S. class.
Hell even the chart says not to use it as the basis for what pads to buy.
Sorry for the rant.
I see this all the time in the computer industry.
I am not saying the other pads suck, I have not used them, but I do know that the stock Bimmer brakes were good, the Ultimates wooped their ass.
I did a lot of reading on sites before buying my Ultimates and if all you do is street driving, finding something significantly better is not likely to happen. Not impossible, just difficult. Track use, you would possibly want somethig else, but even for some light tracking these pads should be fine.
By the way, 20k miles later (approx), the pads still have probably half of their life left in them.
How is that for getting your moneys worth.
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Hell even the chart says not to use it as the basis for what pads to buy
HAHA that's hilarious... didn't see that.
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That chart is pure bullshit. Why? Because without numbers the difference betweeen each pad may 5psi or 5 degrees F. Or it could be 500. You simply do not know. Without those numbers it is all marketing bullshit. The chart does not even really tell you what you are looking at. Fuck charts and diagrams, they can say anything they want. Numbers CAN lie.
Even worse, how is the pedal feel? Initial bite? Cold braking? I have heard some pads barely stop at all when cold. A chart, especiallythat one, tells you nothing. OOOH, look at the pretty colors! Someone learned how to make a chart in C.S. class.
Hell even the chart says not to use it as the basis for what pads to buy.
Sorry for the rant.
I see this all the time in the computer industry.
I am not saying the other pads suck, I have not used them, but I do know that the stock Bimmer brakes were good, the Ultimates wooped their ass.
I did a lot of reading on sites before buying my Ultimates and if all you do is street driving, finding something significantly better is not likely to happen. Not impossible, just difficult. Track use, you would possibly want somethig else, but even for some light tracking these pads should be fine.
By the way, 20k miles later (approx), the pads still have probably half of their life left in them.
How is that for getting your moneys worth.
I was just about to throw up a big rant about how much BS that chart was. One, as you mention, there are no numbers on there, nor a scale. It is like looking at a company's stock chart (that they give to investors say) where one stock has its daily peak waaaaaay above another's graphically, and the unit price is say 10 points higher. On a stock chart though, maybe the visible range is from 600 points to 650. That 10pt difference LOOKS huge, but doesnt really mean too damn much up in that range. Same shit here.
Second, they are STACKING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ATTRIBUTES! That is REALLY stupid. I want my ocmpany to look better than another, so I make a bar chart of some figures: I take stock price and number of employees and stack them...that makes for a chart that looks very convincing from a distance. On this, there is no good way to even compare the (unscaled) fade-temp data well...there is no zero-point to line them up on.
This is typical marketing BS. I doubt you are gonna find many (or any) pads better for a STREET vehicle. Maybe some do stop better in the end, but cold-bite is very important, noise, pad-life, and DUSTINESS is too. Nobody here is gonna tell me that they would take twice as much dust, or more squeal (the AU's have none that I have ever heard), or crappy cold bite, or 5000 mile life for a 10% increase in braking ability on their daily. Now, anyone who runs track-pads on their street car...well, courtesy is a part of membership here so I will just stop. It just isn't a safe plan.
EDIT:
Is this me trying to defend my purchase of the Axxis pads? Yeah, in part, it sure is. That company's BS chart was more than enough to let me go off on a rant and sound unbiased though. I did a lot of research before getting these, and it was well worth it. Having installed them on friends' card prior to my purchase and seeing/feeling the improvement also helped sell the pads. They are good. There are other good ones out there as I am sure many here are using. From my experience, these are the BEST I have ever used, and my freinds will agree.
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That chart is pure bullshit.
I might not know Sheepdog, but I can say that I already like him! :D
I agree, and I've actually had that same chart saved somewhere for quite some time. I've proven it's worthlessness over and over. ;)
The Porterfield R4 race pads look decent, for instance, but they are absolute crap. They might be okay on an E30, but on a heavy E36 they are good for about 3 laps... and that's it. In reality, their street pads, the R4S, are a much better pad, since they're so predictable. I actually like the R4S quite a bit as a street/autox/occasional track pad, but decided to try something new for the E30.
As a side note, the Cobalt SpecVR is my current favorite race pad, FWIW.
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I'm curious as to whether anyone has anyone tried Ferodo and Axxis and chosen Axxis? The Axxis are looking pretty good, but my buddy swears by Ferodo.... but then again I'd like to pay half as much for the Axxis!
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I'm curious as to whether anyone has anyone tried Ferodo and Axxis and chosen Axxis? The Axxis are looking pretty good, but my buddy swears by Ferodo.... but then again I'd like to pay half as much for the Axxis!
At half price, I would just go Axxis.
I would buy them again, no question, in fact my Miata is getting some once it gets back on the road.
If I can get some, my mom's Toyota Tacoma will be getting some as well.
The Ferodo may be better, but Axxis work perfect for me.
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The Ferodo may be better, but Axxis work perfect for me.
That's a pretty good summation of this conversation. Ferodo is almost certainly better, but I'm not about to pay over 100 bucks for brake pads if I'm not gonna be tracking the car.
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Very sound conclusion. Go with what will, all aspects averaged, be the best.
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I highly reccomend the Ferrodo street pads if you have a street car. Excellent feel and great performance. That pad won European Car's brake pad test as well.
I'm planning on some track use, which is why I chose the Hawk HPS.
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StopTech sells them . . . is there a better (cheaper) place to get them?
At half price, I would just go Axxis.
I would buy them again, no question, in fact my Miata is getting some once it gets back on the road.
If I can get some, my mom's Toyota Tacoma will be getting some as well.
The Ferodo may be better, but Axxis work perfect for me.
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I'm running HPS right now and I like them alot. They are also cheap ($45 for my application)
I think I'll try some Carbotech's for the track and keep the HPS on the street.
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StopTech sells them . . . is there a better (cheaper) place to get them?
I got mine from Chris@DasAutoSport.com: DasAutoSport.com (http://www.dasautosport.com/store/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51G3566424&rnd=9476023&rrc=N&affl=&cip=206.72.88.242&act=&aff=&pg=cat&ref=E30-3Series&catstr=HOME:BMW:3Cars)
I've been really happy with the service and prices I'm getting there on aftermarket and OE stuff for my M3, and since they're in Las Vegas, it's usually really quick shipping to me in SoCal.
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I buy Bendix loaded calipers. They're rebuilt calipers (by Bendix) lubed, with new rubber parts, and Bendix TitaniuMetallic pads installed. They are $75 each and are quick and clean. Just R&R the calipers, bleed and go. I've never had one go bad or be defective out of about 12-15 pairs. Sorry about not using the "best" performance product but my limits these days are a little "spirited" driving on a country road every now and then. The rest of the time I'm cruising the boulevard.
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my porterfield's dusted ugly red and had terrible cold bite on my wrx. however, they stopped well in track usage. my HPS+ streets seem much better with squeal and cold bite for street driving, yet maybe a little less effective for hard braking.
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StopTech sells them . . . is there a better (cheaper) place to get them?
a set of ultimates for all 4 brakes is $126.19 shipped for me, ebay goes for about $106.99 shipped + tax for CA so im guessing its a little cheaper... anyone else know of a better deal?