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DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: gsxrcop on January 02, 2009, 11:17:42 AM

Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: gsxrcop on January 02, 2009, 11:17:42 AM
Hi, have a project going on a 1991 318IC. I have so far a t3/t4 hybrid turbo, good & tight manifold, 12:1 FMU, FMIC. I plan on running between 5-8 psi with this setup. My question is this...I have heard that running a AFM on this setup that I don't run a blow off valve. Is this true? Any help or advice would be great.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: ludiagsm on January 02, 2009, 11:27:30 AM
Quote from: gsxrcop;63879
Hi, have a project going on a 1991 318IC. I have so far a t3/t4 hybrid turbo, good & tight manifold, 12:1 FMU, FMIC. I plan on running between 5-8 psi with this setup. My question is this...I have heard that running a AFM on this setup that I don't run a blow off valve. Is this true? Any help or advice would be great.


 Hi ,if you make turbo car you must use blow off valve.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: gsxrcop on January 02, 2009, 11:58:00 AM
So the plan is to just take the cone filter off the intake side and install it on the turbo inlet. Take the intercooler piping right off the AFM and install the blow off valve right after that. Will that work ok? Most all of the pics I see of M42 turbo set up's must be using standalone, because they have no AFM.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: bearsbmw on January 02, 2009, 12:09:40 PM
Quote from: gsxrcop;63881
So the plan is to just take the cone filter off the intake side and install it on the turbo inlet. Take the intercooler piping right off the AFM and install the blow off valve right after that. Will that work ok? Most all of the pics I see of M42 turbo set up's must be using standalone, because they have no AFM.


Blow off valve befor the AFM allways assuming you have the afm after the turbo ... if you are good with components you can even do a crude tune with the AFM if you open it up and play with the door flaper...Unfortanly when your using the Rising rate regulator there is a dead spot (Lean out) from 1-3 psi and playing with the AFM can almost eliminate the dead spot but only do this if your realy confident with your work... You can run 8psi safely with the 12:1 ... 9psi was starting to lean and 10psi I hit engine knock... good luck
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: gsxrcop on January 02, 2009, 12:21:42 PM
So right out of the intake do the BOV and then the AFM? What do you mean assuming AFM after the turbo? The turbo is on the other side of the engine.



Quote from: bearsbmw;63883
Blow off valve befor the AFM allways assuming you have the afm after the turbo ... if you are good with components you can even do a crude tune with the AFM if you open it up and play with the door flaper...Unfortanly when your using the Rising rate regulator there is a dead spot (Lean out) from 1-3 psi and playing with the AFM can almost eliminate the dead spot but only do this if your realy confident with your work
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: bearsbmw on January 02, 2009, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: gsxrcop;63884
So right out of the intake do the BOV and then the AFM? What do you mean assuming AFM after the turbo? The turbo is on the other side of the engine.


some people rewire the AFM and put it on the induction side of the turbo...In your case you will keep the AFM in the same spot it came factory and you will place the blow off valve befor the AFM between the turbo + side and AFM
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: gsxrcop on January 02, 2009, 07:48:25 PM
Does anyone have a pic of this set up for me to see? All of the ones I have seen have a custom intake manifold.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 03, 2009, 09:06:26 AM
Quote from: ludiagsm;63880
Hi ,if you make turbo car you must use blow off valve.


No, thats not true. You dont need it. You need it only if you want blow off dust under hood. Toys for kids...
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: Boosted E30 on January 03, 2009, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;63944
No, thats not true. You dont need it. You need it only if you want blow off dust under hood. Toys for kids...



if you want your turbo to last you definatly need it.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 03, 2009, 01:49:12 PM
Quote from: Boosted E30;63962
if you want your turbo to last you definatly need it.


Ok, please tell me how much it will last longer?
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: bearsbmw on January 03, 2009, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;63966
Ok, please tell me how much it will last longer?


Put a turbo with no BOV on your 318is and report back with results
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 04, 2009, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: bearsbmw;63970
Put a turbo with no BOV on your 318is and report back with results


I know few guys which are racing in Lithuanian open class championship with high boost numbers about 1.7bar without BOV and without ANY turbocompressor problems. 1000km in racing is it enough?
Nobody prooved that turbocompressor last longer with BOV.

WRC cars runs without WG ;)
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: Boosted E30 on January 04, 2009, 01:34:03 PM
good but those are race cars! this is a street car probably daily driver. my buddy didnt have bov on his turbo car and his brand new turbo was done in 2months
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: nuvolarossa on January 04, 2009, 02:48:34 PM
Quote from: romkasponka;64038
I know few guys which are racing in Lithuanian open class championship with high boost numbers about 1.7bar without BOV and without ANY turbocompressor problems. 1000km in racing is it enough?
I think that 1000km in racing doesn't mean that a stock engine and turbo without bov will last enough... :confused:
 
Quote from: romkasponka;64038
WRC cars runs without WG ;)

Yes, but they have this ;)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1650384
 
 
 
If you don't want to use a BOV venting to atmosphere and making noise, place a BPV (aka diverter, aka recirc-valve, the ones that bosch make for stock turbo cars like Porsche TT, VAG 1.8T...) they are quiet and they do fine their work.
like this:
(http://www.performance-cafe.com/images/06a145710n.JPG)
 
:rolleyes:
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: gsxrcop on January 04, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
Thanks for the comments. I'm going to use a BOV, it's a HKS. What I still need is a picture or more info on where to place it when running a AFM. Any help?
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 05, 2009, 03:10:00 AM
Quote from: Boosted E30;64056
good but those are race cars! this is a street car probably daily driver. my buddy didnt have bov on his turbo car and his brand new turbo was done in 2months


Made in China? Why do you think the couse was BOV?
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 05, 2009, 03:18:55 AM
Quote from: nuvolarossa;64066
I think that 1000km in racing doesn't mean that a stock engine and turbo without bov will last enough... :confused:


I mean one 1000km races and stops only for draivers changes and refueling. And after that another 2h races. This is not short 10 min races. Including training and qualification. I think that is more than enough to prove that system will work if you gona use this for daily car.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: ludiagsm on January 05, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: romkasponka;64127
I mean one 1000km races and stops only for draivers changes and refueling. And after that another 2h races. This is not short 10 min races. Including training and qualification. I think that is more than enough to prove that system will work if you gona use this for daily car.

That is possible only with performance turbocharger ballbearings or 360 degrees bearings but evan than the life on turbocharger will be much longer if blow off valve is used.  

problem is axial forces on turbocharger bearings beacouse of  pressure peak when closing drossel

 If you run with normal turbocharger garett t3 or similar china t3 from ebay cheap kits  run it without blow off and see what will happen. Much more lag  on shiftering,short life ,and bad sound :p


sorry my einglish ,I hope people uderstand what i mean
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 05, 2009, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: ludiagsm;64143
That is possible only with performance turbocharger ballbearings or 360 degrees bearings but evan than the life on turbocharger will be much longer if blow off valve is used.  

problem is axial forces on turbocharger bearings beacouse of  pressure peak when closing drossel

 If you run with normal turbocharger garett t3 or similar china t3 from ebay cheap kits  run it without blow off and see what will happen. Much more lag  on shiftering,short life ,and bad sound :p


sorry my einglish ,I hope people uderstand what i mean


Turbocharger is hybrid k22+Holstet(cold side) (I am not sure about the numbers). I understand that there is axial forces, it have axial forces all the time, but nobody proved that turbocharger (not made in china) live 10% or more with BOV. I do not agree with you about lag. All acumulated (high pressure) air between turbocompressor ant drosel will be suplayed to the engine. Or you shifting very long? :) Few years ago in WRC cars was special tanks 20-40 liters for that purpose to increase effect . After tanks was banned.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: bearsbmw on January 05, 2009, 12:28:09 PM
This thread is becoming a joke...Do what you wan't with your setup but if you wan't to play safe spend $100 and use a BOV.. goodluck!
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 05, 2009, 02:42:17 PM
Why do you think that this is safe with BOV? ;)
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: ludiagsm on January 05, 2009, 05:00:36 PM
Quote from: bearsbmw;64164
This thread is becoming a joke...Do what you wan't with your setup but if you wan't to play safe spend $100 and use a BOV.. goodluck!



i am agree with you :)   btw i just look at his blog page take a look nice suspention some brakes and  gues what propan butan gaz injection system hahahaha ,best tuner who  i ever met

 http://romkasponka.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-09-27T08%3A51%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=7

,tomorrow i will remove blow of valves from my turbo beemers and will throll them away bacause romkasponka sayng :D:D:D
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: ludiagsm on January 05, 2009, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: gsxrcop;64101
Thanks for the comments. I'm going to use a BOV, it's a HKS. What I still need is a picture or more info on where to place it when running a AFM. Any help?



here is pictures to my 316 m40 turbo it is not like from magazine but all things works fine :) :

(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6361/06092008287te4.th.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008287te4.jpg)

(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7467/06092008288kp3.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008288kp3.jpg)  


(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5633/06092008290nu1.th.jpg) (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008290nu1.jpg)

(http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8093/06092008291li3.th.jpg) (http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008291li3.jpg)


(http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6766/06092008292cx5.th.jpg) (http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008292cx5.jpg)


(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3233/06092008293rr1.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008293rr1.jpg)


(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3582/06092008294sm4.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008294sm4.jpg)


(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9036/06092008295xt8.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008295xt8.jpg)


(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6640/06092008296dt5.th.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008296dt5.jpg)


(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8817/06092008298ky0.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06092008298ky0.jpg)
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: Boosted E30 on January 05, 2009, 08:02:33 PM
Quote from: gsxrcop;64101
Thanks for the comments. I'm going to use a BOV, it's a HKS. What I still need is a picture or more info on where to place it when running a AFM. Any help?


you can put it on any charge pipe as long as it is before the afm. so the pipe you have coming up from the intercooler to the afm put it right on there that would be best.
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 06, 2009, 02:43:40 AM
Quote from: ludiagsm;64176
i am agree with you :)   btw i just look at his blog page take a look nice suspention some brakes and  gues what propan butan gaz injection system hahahaha ,best tuner who  i ever met

 http://romkasponka.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-09-27T08%3A51%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=7

,tomorrow i will remove blow of valves from my turbo beemers and will throll them away bacause romkasponka sayng :D:D:D


I am not a tuner, that car was for daily drive before suspension was fitted. Are you trying outrage me?
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: ludiagsm on January 06, 2009, 03:21:04 AM
Quote from: romkasponka;64199
I am not a tuner, that car was for daily drive before suspension was fitted. Are you trying outrage me?


you are not a tuner ofcourse , this threat was question for one progect about 318 turbo ,and you tell the guy do not use bov becouse somwere you have seen recе car withot bov and put us on stupid dispute

 next time go on some near CIRCUS and you will be the best joker ;)
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 06, 2009, 08:37:58 AM
Quote from: ludiagsm;64201
you are not a tuner ofcourse , this threat was question for one progect about 318 turbo ,and you tell the guy do not use bov becouse somwere you have seen recе car withot bov and put us on stupid dispute

 next time go on some near CIRCUS and you will be the best joker ;)


I do not see any arguments in your messages, so gess who is joker?
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: ludiagsm on January 07, 2009, 04:26:48 AM
Quote from: romkasponka;64211
I do not see any arguments in your messages, so gess who is joker?


 yes propan-butan tuning master :cool:
Title: Blow off valve ???
Post by: romkasponka on January 08, 2009, 06:02:30 AM
just asked the something about turbocharger in my friend car....
ANN engine
KKK26/Holset HX40 hybrid
600Ag/600Nm with 1.7bar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tynCExHb9YI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqQ67goUezo&feature=related