M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: Appletree IS supercharged on December 20, 2008, 05:45:44 AM
-
Hi just thought i'd add this to the forum, its tacken from the e30zone so some of you will have seen it already but for the otheres here it is.
Some of it might not make sense as its copyied and may have answeres to other peoples questions.
Well with the coming of winter comes another project how ever this time the targets alot higher than it was before and this time the engine is going to be rebuilt low comp by Ant to make sure its capable of handaling the large amount of boost needed to reach my BHP goal.
What is the goal??? well if VAG 20v T's can get to 300bhp with not much in the way of major tuning then i can 't see why with alot of work, due to it being a older engine, i cant get mine to 280-300 brake.
Heres a Current pic of the car for anyone who's intrested :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00026.jpg)
I'm still going to be sticking to the Superchargers and not swopping to turbos as i love the whine and the way theres instant boost with the superchargers.
So far i've been gathering a few bits togeather ready to start doing things when i take the car off the road in winter, so far ive bought two iner coolers, one saab and one Volvo type, both simular but with different porting.
Unfortunatly neither of them will be able to satnd the high boost pressure with out balloning and then blowing the end atnks off so i'm going to use them to mock up the set up and then get an ally one made to the sime size so i know it will fit in with out having to modify the carsfront pannels.
Been busy at work to making a stainless swedish style inlet plenum although it would be better made of ally i dont have access to a ally welder or ally for that matter. i'll get some pics up when i can,
I've also bought all the pullys to swop the M42 "V" belts to M43 flat belts this means if i needed to i could use the same belt to run the charger as other ancillerys, wether this is a good idea or not i dont know as least if i had two belts if the supercharger belt snapped the water pump and alternator would still be working if in needed to say limp the car to the next service station.
The two next big things to sort out are the lower compression ratio and the supercharge trim.
ive been speaking to a company called TTS performance who are the distibutor for Rotex chargers in the UK and they have suggested i go for the biggest one they do in the C30 range the -94 size as this will do 250-400 bhp range , alittle larger than the one i thought i'd need the -84 that runs 200-320bhp but the lad i spoke to seamed to realy know his product and also had good knowledge of the other kits and cars that they have charged in he past and what charger they used to get what power.
The same lad suggested i only drop the Cr to 9.5:1 as he use the same setup (-94 trim) on civics running 10:1 however to me this still seams alittle high for me as i was thinkin more along the lines of 8.5:1 however maybe the middle ground of 9:1 would be better?
think i'am going to need to be running around 20psi boost to get to 280-300bhp
Any one got anythoughts? all help and advise welcome
Heres a few pics of the inlet maifold i've started making up
First cut up some3" 45 and 90 degree pipe bend to make half sections using an angle grider and then a flap pad to finish the edge off, heres them just mocked up.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00184.jpg)
next thing was to tack them togeather and stich weld the bottom of the pipe work to a big section of box to make sure it keeps it shape when welding and doesnt distort. then i tacked the middle section in the top to joint the 45 and the 90 bend to geather :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00185.jpg)
And heres a pic of it nearly ready for welding, just got to tack in the other plate. Making the top and bottom plates was a pain in the ass but i think the patiants has pain off as they fit realy well and will make welding them in easyer :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00187.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00186.jpg)
look what turned up at work when i got back from site today!
Looks a a realy nice bit of kit, only thing that i would change on it is to have bigger bolts than 4 M6's to hold it on to the bracket.
heres the pics, very compact, its a c30-94 the biggest they do in the c30 range 250-400bhp
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00200.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00202.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00204.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00203.jpg)
the two intercoolers i bought off ebay also came ones from a saab and has 45degree doward inlet and outlets and the others a Volvo one with 90degree inlet and outlets.
The Volvo one
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00205.jpg)
The Saab one, larger flow channels ( if thats what there called) but smaller in depth and has slightly smaller inlets.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00206.jpg)
Lastly the two togeather the Saab one in front.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00207.jpg)
:cool:
Done a bit more to the plenum at the weekend and managed to get it welded up, had to cut the large opening of it to make it fit correctly as the angle was all wrong and made the inlet point to the fop of theinner wing, it alot better now but i still think it could do with a 45d bend pionting down to make it line through :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00006.jpg)
A rough idea as to how the inlet will fit and were the supercharger will go :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00004.jpg)
-
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00007.jpg)
had abit of spare time to day so set up a "work bench" much to the girlfreinds dislike :evil: and stripped the housing off the charger to rotate it as the oil in-out has to be at the top of the gearbox.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00017.jpg)
Inside the rotrex
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00016.jpg)
With a bit of space to draw things out and work on another spare IS engine ( i now have 4, cheers Kedge) i was able to start making a mock up of the mount from ply-wood.
The motor mount
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00021.jpg)
Afew pics of how it will al sit, the mount will be made of two parts which will be bolted togeather at the 90d bend.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00020.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00019.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00018.jpg)
Ya its a good idea as its easyer to work with, costs less and means you get a realy good idea were things will fit :D
Ive had to re-think the outlet position/direction as it ment the pipe work would be very close to the power steering pump.
origanaly i had planned to run the pipe work streight down to below the PAS pump then through a 90 bend forward then a 90 right to get to the driverside of the car then a 90 in to the intercooler.
With the new position with the new positon pointing upwards i need a 135d bend streight after the charger pointing diagonaly down to the bottom front of the drivers side then through a 45d bend to the intercooler which i think will be better and will also mean i have more space to work. all this means is i will have to heat wrap the pipe work as it will be passing were the viscous fan used to be behind the rad.
Heres some pics of the final mounting position using the wood mock up, hopefully ill get some 10mm plate at the week end and start on the final metal one.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00035.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00034.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00033.jpg)
Going to be nice to swop back to the original resivours for the pass and the brakes as i had to swop them for the first set up, think they're off a Cav turbo
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00032.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00031.jpg)
Heres two pick of the bracket/mount this will be made from two peices of mild steel welded at the corner and then a gusset made to brace from the front to the back of the mount to reinforce it and then maybe a pair of ribs under neath.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00041.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00040.jpg)
Also got my 540 v8 throttle body today, post some picks up later its massive! maybe to big! :?
Little bit more progress today, managed to get a belt from halfords that fitted perfectaly, its lucky its the right size as the only other 6V belts were twice as long.
Heres the picture to show the belt run and were tensioner will go althought the tensioner will be adjustable and will be mounted on the outside of the belt with the roller inboard :D
-
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00051.jpg)
Not sure wether to use the standard power steering belt or keep the flat belt i'am running at the minute as the standard belt gives more space
Few pics of the progress ive made this week and last weekend.
A pic of the charger on the wooden mount with my new silicone bends showing the rough path of the pipeing as its got to get to the otherside of the car.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000592.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000602.jpg)
After the wooden template showed the mount would work ok i set too and started to make it out of metal.
had to use the big lathe at work as dads was to small at home.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000642.jpg)
fare sized chuck as you can see! nearly gave my self a hernia lifting it on!
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00066.jpg)
A few pics of the mount made up, i decided to bolt the mount togeather as i realy didnt want it to distort throught the heat of being welded.
Just dropped a square over it and its as square as a square thing!
Just need to drill the holes for the charger to bolt to it now as i need to check the angle of the charger as they have to sit level within 15degrees :D
The pics
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000702.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000722.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000752.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000762.jpg)
:cool:
.
A quick pic of the metal bracket mounted to the engine, ive had to use so 30mm spacers between the block and the plate to make the plate miss the oil filter housing.
But here it is anyway,
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00078.jpg)
No this is bolted on ive been able to work out were 15degrees off level is and drill the mounting holes for the charger, so thats another little bit done :D
Ive been working away on site again and had a nice suprise when i got back! shainey bits :cool:
My intercooler i orderd from the link "e30 turbo" posted had come as well as a very nice turbosmart BOV
The BOV was quite dear and once i bought it i did think how much better could this be than a forge or bailey item?? well the answer is alot better you realy can see the difference in quality :D i also managed to get the 25mm fitting kit for the valve which will help the flow of boosted air better.
Only thing i do want for it is another trumpet instead of the part recirc port. :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00080.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00083.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00082.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00081.jpg)
-
Been working on the car all day and ive got the front valance cut to suit the intercooler and the intercooler mounted. to say its tight is an understatement!
i tryed to fit it the other way up but the problem is theres not enough gap to fit the 3" deep core in, you might gataway with a 2.5" one, so i had to fit it the other way round!
ive had to remove the inside head lights, does any one have any ideas how i can run a all in one head light in the out side slot??
Do you need them both for an MOT????
Anyway heres a few pics :cool:
heres the bracket for the bottom made from a bit of stain less angle.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000962-2.jpg)
The front pannel cut primed, painted and waxoyled
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00095-1.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000942-1.jpg)
As You will see from the pics got some good work done. proved some bits i made fitted and made some more
heres make shift work shop at my dads house as its been raining all day! not that i made much difference it was still freezing :D Cant wait till i get my gararge built at my house. :cool:
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00105.jpg)
Got my 3" to 2 1/2" reducers in the post on friday so i cut them down and they fit great! bit tight but then a miss is a miss .
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00102.jpg)
Started working on the boost pipe work to get the boost to the drivers side of the car, lucky i got some bends from work on friday!
Taped them togeather tightly with electrical tape then cut a hole in the tape and made a mark incase they moved, its also nice to get a few tacks on the pipe while its still held in place. the tape is suprisingly strong and works well, did my exhaust the same.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00101.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000982.jpg)
Ignore the blue top hose this was just to stop the coolent running out when i undid the pipe so i could work out how to run the boost pipe.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC000972.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00104.jpg)
Heres the pipe all tacked up by me ready to be welded by some one who knows what there doing :D
I was thinking of polishing all the pipe work up but i think due to the position of the pipe i might heat rap it or use some of that reflective tape they use on the jap stuff when its all packed in, we'll see...
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00112.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00113.jpg)
I was even able to fit the origonal top hose with the new pipe work although it is quite close so i might just add an "S" bend near the thermostat housing to give a little room.
You can also see a possble position for the airfilter its low down and in the bay but requires next to no pipework leaves lots of room for the chargers oil pump and filter but it wont have the best coole air flow.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00111.jpg)
And this is the other possible location more "conventional" but requires some difficult pipe work to keep the bonnet able to shut and not reub on the inner wing :?
This is the way i'd like to do it i just hope i can make it look good and not foul anything :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00110.jpg)
Think if i add another 45d bend after the 90 it will get the filter pointin down nicely, if it does pipe up ok i think ill do that pipein black crackel paint :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00106.jpg)
-
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00108.jpg)
Well, i decided to change the angle of the chrager as i was no longer needed to run the boost to the lower corner and would give a better oil supply to the charger due to the angle.
Problem was this then changed the length of the pipe work on the top run so i cut a section out of it and then re tacked it up.
When i went to work to tack it up i rang one of the welders and he talked me through how to purge it and weld it properly. what do you think to the results?? winkeye
just ran round this with a soft polishing wheel to remove the heat marking.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00125.jpg)
this is the result of purging a pipe, you dont get it coking up.
And its not a blocked bog as my dad thought its the inside of the pipe
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00121.jpg)
Finished welded pipework. :D
Induction to the charger
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00124.jpg)
Charger to intercooler
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00123.jpg)
both togeather
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00122.jpg)
Bought my self a new throttle body, it from a m30 b30 from a 7series, just need to make an adaptor plate so it can take the new style throttle POT.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00130.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00131.jpg)
The pipes fitted on the car tonight. :cool: Once ive decided where the other pipes need to go in to the pipes i'll have a go at welding them on and then polish all the pipes and see how they look. :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00128-1.jpg)
-
I love you and your friends building the tvr ;) damn, I must go out because it's late... tomorrow will watch closely all your pics!
great work! I'm subscribed! ;)
-
This looks so awesome. How much boost are you going to be running? Good Luck!
-
I'm curious about the runners you are using with the intake plenum and about how you decided on the dimensions and volume of the plenum...
It looks like you are using the stock bottom runners from the OEM manifold, do you have any pics of the plenum where it meets the runners? I'm curious about how you plan to assemble it.
I'd also like to know what were the factors you considered in the actual plenum lay out. Did you consider runner diameter to and the distance to the top and bottom walls, total voulme, etc.?
-
Sorry rob but the plenums the only bit i havent put much thought in to yet other than to make it 4ltrs which i did alittle research about and found some info on the design of it for a N/A build, other than that ive been making it from pictures of prefesional builds.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/yhst-54168318875339_2015_1860790.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/h1.jpg)
i will be using the lower part of the manifold and making some sort of trumpet inside of it for each runner before i bolt the plenum over that.
Still not sure of how to do that yet but i'll think of something or make a new one.
To be honest ive been realy struggling to find any infomation on building a plenum for a boosted M42. Or plenum building in general. if you have any ideas or suggestion then please post up
What are you running any pics??
-Cheers Nuvolarossa
- looking to be running around 15-18psi
Ive got another bottom end thats currenly being built up lower comp 8.8CR IIRC with forged rods pistons and a slight over bore although i'am trying to keep things strong and keep the meat on them rather than bore everything out to the limit and make weak spots.
-
I'm running a 1.95L turbo M42 in BMW Club Racing. More info can be found here:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2980038
I'm using A. Graham Bell's "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" book for most of the math on the plenum design. I highly recommend it.
It looks like the stock runners are a good diameter for the valve size and application. I want to shorten them up to improve the high end and plan to use the stock lower half too. It looks like your TB is a good diameter, but I think 3L is a good size for the plenum. The recommendation in the book is to have the plenum walls no close than 1.5 times the runner diameter. I am planning to have the far cylinder (#4) at 1.5 times and taper out to 2X at the throttle body. Something slightly conical in shape would be ideal, but I don't see that as practical.
-
Thanks for the info rob (nice page you got there), ive got the corkey bell book "supercharged" and another one by him but i can't remember one buy graham, think i will have to buy it and see.
My main thought is that just with abit of common sense you can make an manifold that flows better than using the stock one purly because of the change of directon and then splitting of the boost to each cylinder. Think another important factor is not to come in to soon at a tight angle or you can "blow past" a cylinder and that one runs rich.
Could you PM me what PSI and what BHP your getting please i would be intrested to see what youve got at what boost as there seams to be alot of difference whith what people run and the power they get.
i was hoping 15-18psi would make around 300bhp according to my calculations.
A freinds got a MR2 turbo runninf 13psi and he's getting 275bhp with out a remap.
Cheers Matt
-
Fun project :)
-
very nice job ;) , i did't uderstand what happen with alternator?
wish you luck with your projekt:)
-
Hi forgot to say it was swopped to the otherside and runs now were the aircon pump would normaly go. still uses the same belt, and bracket just with a plate to lower it and make it run inline
-
very nice build man! post some pics of the way its set up now.
-
Hi forgot to say it was swopped to the otherside and runs now were the aircon pump would normaly go. still uses the same belt, and bracket just with a plate to lower it and make it run inline
ok 10x , and keep us updated
-
Its not finished yet mate,but i will keep posting pics as i go.
-
Looks great so far... i really like the fact that you are able to fab up everything by yourself.
Since your SC and intake manifold sits on the same side of the engine bay. You could have used an intercooler with in and out ports on the same side to eliminate having to run IC piping across the engine bay.
I found this on Ebay as an example (The large one - just mount it sidways):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___86-87-Grand-National-Thunder-Fab-Intercooler_W0QQitemZ160305023722QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item160305023722&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Or this (you have to cut the bottom piece and re-weld it so the ports are both on the same side):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Pro-Charger-Intercooler-And-Piping-Mustang_W0QQitemZ260333050600QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRace_Car_Parts?hash=item260333050600&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
-
Nice!! Any dyno numbers?
-
Depending on your displacement ,and of course the dyno, your boost range should get you the power you're looking for.
We put down 319 RWHP on a DynoDynamics at 18psi.
-
Wow thats great rob! and at the wheels to that most be a quick machine! how did you get to 1.95ltrs have you used the standard M42 crank or swopped it for an M47 one? Ive just bought a rover one from the 2ltr 75 car which uses the sane crank or so info on here suggests, it was only £75 so if it doesnt fit its not the end of the world.
If you have swopped to th M47 have you kept the rods the standard length and just fitted lower comp custom pistons? this is what i'd like to do if its possible, although i do have some forged H beam conrods to go in.
What Cr are you running people have been advising me to run around 9:1cr so its still got low down torque.
Cheers Matt, thanks for you input, nice to talk to some one whos done it and i willing to share information.
-
awsome project man looks great hope it will perform as good as it looks. im running forged 8.5:1 pistons in my car and 3.25lsd diff and i have no issue with the low end torque. turbo is at full boost @ 3500rpm its definatly not slugish off the line even with the longer diff.
-
Wow thats great rob! and at the wheels to that most be a quick machine! how did you get to 1.95ltrs have you used the standard M42 crank or swopped it for an M47 one? Ive just bought a rover one from the 2ltr 75 car which uses the sane crank or so info on here suggests, it was only £75 so if it doesnt fit its not the end of the world.
If you have swopped to th M47 have you kept the rods the standard length and just fitted lower comp custom pistons? this is what i'd like to do if its possible, although i do have some forged H beam conrods to go in.
What Cr are you running people have been advising me to run around 9:1cr so its still got low down torque.
Cheers Matt, thanks for you input, nice to talk to some one whos done it and i willing to share information.
I have talk to a couple of mechanics and they too recommend 9:1 for decent low end torque and good boost capability.
-
Bit of progress on the plenum i thought you might be intrested in Rob, been making the plate that attaches to the lower inlet manifold. i'm going to be bolting the stainless plenum to this ally sheet with a gasket and bolts all round.
Heres the ally plate bolted to the inlet mainfold.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00150.jpg)
After bolting the ally plate to inlet i holesaw'd through it in line with the runners with a slightly smaller holesaw and the used a rotory burr in a drill to open them out.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00151.jpg)
To start the Trumpet shapped radius of the runner i used a de-burrer, this gave a radius of around 6-7mm
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00152.jpg)
Been Practising my welding again, Not quite as pritty i must say, had to use quite alot of wire as it was quite hard to get the head of the tourch in to the corner of the plenum as there was a much larger plate when i welded it to try and spread the heat and stop it warping which it did quite well with only a corner warping which i bent back with a big adjustable.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00161.jpg)
Just marked out were the ports will be all though i'm going to be cutting the holelot out of the inside and just bolting it around the outside. :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00164.jpg)
This is how the finished plenum will bolt up but with rounded edges to keep it looking neat. then i'am going to cut the excess off both the ally sheet and the stainless plenum and drill all the holes to bolt it all togeather tomorrow so they'll probly be an update tomorrow :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00163.jpg)
-
sweet build!
-
Thanks, I love the pics. I only wish I had those fabrication skills.
-
More progress today on the plenum, got a big hole saw and cut two 55mm holes in the base plate.
The little bit i left at the side of the holes is for a M8 bolt to thread in to the back of the plate of the plenum from the back.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00165.jpg)
Then joind them up with the slitting disc in the grinder.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00166-1.jpg)
the view with the plate cut out, the bolts on the inside will be bolted on first before the plenum bolts over the job lot and lock tighted in place, i might even use longer bolts and even up some nylocks on the bits that poke out.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00168-1.jpg)
Next clamped all the way round with mole grips ready to drill the holes and keep everything aligned :D :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00167.jpg)
Holes drilled and a slight downward pointing bend welded on to the plenum, not that neat as when i weled the two joining halfs of the plenum togeather and must have slightly miss judged how big a half was as its ended up at just over 3".
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00176.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC001742.jpg)
All trimmed on the edge of the stainless and ally sheet, just need to make a gasket.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00175.jpg)
Bolted it on to the car which ment i could weld up a boost pipe for the IC to TB leg of the pipework just need to work out were i want to put the dump valve. :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00172.jpg)
need to make up the plate that the TB will bolt to next, got a peice of 10mm stainless flat bar which i will be able to cut out and then grind/polish it to match it to the plenum and the TB as there very slightly different sizes probly 3" and 2 3/4" or maybe even less :cool:
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00171-1.jpg)
-
great! what can you tell me about emerald? you like it? problems? your opinion!
thanks
-
great realy easy to use, great support from dave there who always gets back to you with out fail, 3 maps which are switchable on the move! closed loop, great.
what more can i say.
Anything perticular you want to know?
-
turned this up this morning, ready to be welded on to the boost pipe to mount the dump valve.
As i bought the dump valve with the 38mm fitting kit i made a new stub out of 1 1/2" dairy pipe and machined a grove for the grub screws to lock in to :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00183.jpg)
Filed the bottom to make it but up to the boost pipe :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00184-1.jpg)
Hole sawd the middle out and then welded the pipe on.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00185-1.jpg)
Polished up with the dump valve ftted :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00193.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00192.jpg)
Next machiuned out the stainless plate to weld to the manifold for the throttle to mount on to, as the throttle was just alittle bit smaller than the 3" bore of the manifold, hopefully it will make it flow well :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00179.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00178.jpg)
Welded the plate on along with a small plate to work as a mount for the throttle cable to pull against just need to round off the plate and polish it up :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00189.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00187-1.jpg)
Also welded this plate on to work as the pressure/vacume take off for all the various sensors.
Dump valve
FPR
IVC
MAP sensor
Temp sensor
Boost gauge
an some more i forgot....
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00186-1.jpg)
Here it is all bolted up and polished, still think i'm going to crackle black it.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00191.jpg)
-
Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big fan of your fab work. Good luck with the rest of the build it seems a great project
-
We really need one of these for the race car...
-
Have you see the 666 fabrication ally one? quite expensive but it does look alot better than mine and its bound to be loads lighter.
http://store.666fabrication.com/m42-short-runner-intake-manifo.html
O/T rob could you give me the part number of the rubber bits that plug on to the spark plug and he coil on the coil on plug adaptors you use??
Ive bought 8 new ones from a rangerover V8 (BMW engine) with the same bremi part number for the coils and tha same bmw part number but i'm not sure the "pencil" bit is the same as the BMW one you use.
Cheers, matt
-
Bit more progress over the last two weeks or so firstly i finished off making the tesioner, ive used an E36 m43 idler pully which also donated its crank pully to make the charger pully so its should be rated at the same sort of rpm/power.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00286.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00325.jpg)
Trail fitted the inlet manifold today and worked out were the FPR will fit, fingers crossed it wont be need after its mapped and it will run fine on the 3bar reg but it gives me the option to play about if needed.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00320.jpg)
Made this plate to bolt up to old air box mounts so that i can mount the supercharger oil resivour of it, it right next to the charger so the pipe length to the supercharger oil pump is kept to a minimum which is good.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00321.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00322.jpg)
Made a plate to mount on the old throttle pot bolt holes with the large plug and now fitted the newer smaller throttle pot with the now normal plug on it.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00323.jpg)
Nothing realy major but i decided to paint the charger bracket silver just to stop it going rusty and looking crap. need to sort out the wiring for the oil temp and pressure sensors to now i can get there. :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00324.jpg)
Somthing that i was never realy happy was the old oil resivour i fitted from the suzuki swift, it did a job but mountd off the strut brace it looked naff and the pipes were in the way.
Found my old origonal one cleaned it and refitted it and replaced the low fluid level switch, always nice to know youve got brakes :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00326.jpg)
Mark, that inlet looks great in the other pics you sent, keep emailing you back but 3 days later i get a Email not sent warning! god knows why. Any more news on it by the way?
Would a 540 throttle be any good to you? its around 82mm, fits over a 3" pipe anyway with alittle to spare.
-
Just done a little more, got my injectors back from being cleaned at Emerald and fitted them to the inlet manifold.
They were £30 and are from a rover 620i but they are also fitted to other rover trubos like the 220.
Cleaning From emerald with new lilters, tips and o-rings was £15 each
For any one intrested there 440cc at 3bar or 460 at 4bar fuel pressure.
Part numbers on the injectors are
MJY100460
D3184GB
0646
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00327.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00328.jpg)
Few bay shots for you Rich.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00332.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00331.jpg)
Little more progress, got the bracket for the resivour mounted on the plate i made, used some rubber mounts to holed the plate to the airbox mounts so that i can pick up on the other stud to make a flexible mount for the inlet pipe so it can rock with the engine.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00333.jpg)
Also got these hose tails fitted today, the inlet is now fitted all sealed up and ready to go! :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00334.jpg)
TB pics for you, it mahooosive! think the palte bit could be machined down easy to make it more managable. its actualy two Tb's one normaly open and one normaly closed, is one the traction control? you dont need both for it to work, its a 540 one ya E39
what size trumpets do you need?
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00337.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00338.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00339.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00340.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00343.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00342.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00341.jpg)
-
Ignor the throttle pics they were for a freind whos doing turbo 325inlet.
Well another good bit done to the project, been realy busy at work but mangaed to get a few bits done.
After all my questions on the m20 clutch swop ive managed to get someware at last.
thanks chris w, town325i and odbod especialy.
Heres a few pic of the m20 b23 flywheel compared to the m40 one which most uk IS's seam to come with. bit of a weight differance.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00384.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00383.jpg)
Only 1mm differane from the crank face to the back of the flywheel, nothing to worry about.
Had to use a m30 starter in the end an mahine the back of the pinion gear down where the spring sit.
you can see where i had to turn the shamfer back on to the back of the pinion, also had to put the groove back in were the spring clip clamps to holed the spring on the shaft. :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00378.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00381.jpg)
Now i can run an m20 b25 clutch which should take the torque.
i just have to use the e21 323 release bearing whih was £70! £20 cheaper than the sach clutch kit that came with a 325 release bearing which unfortuanly is the wrong size which is why i need the e21 one
The thing is that the m20 has all the weight near the centre of the wheel which helps more than the weight loss its self. :D
Bought these off ebay last week, Supertech valves with a nitrid coating. there designed for boosted aplications and are solid rather than the sodium filled so there shouldnt be any trouble with them when they start to work hard and get hot in my set up :D
coatinghttp://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/supertech/valvetrain.html
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00399.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00398.jpg)
Also bought the retainers, seats and dual springs that the guy was selling. pics to follow
Only problem i can see is that the supertech valves are 1mm thinner on the stem than the standard ones so i will have to get some guides/seals to suit. any ideas?
-
im excited to hear how this comes out, i was intrested in a super charger kit also. i just dont know what to do when it comes to the ecu, do u run a standalown
-
Got some progress on the flywheel swop, got another engine and gear box bolted up upside down and bolted all the flywheel assembly on to it with the modified starter, connected a set of jump leads up and and it burst in to "life"/ turned over :D
No i know it all works i can get it properly bolted up.
i had to turn it upside down as there was no way of sitting it on the floor with the sump still on.
The head was already off when i got the engine off kedge and someones glued the sump plug up so its still pritty full of oil to.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00404.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00403.jpg)
Bit rough but it proved a point :D
Got it running to day, the first vid, running with the trottle set up wrong.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/DziUacOQJPM[/youtube]
This is later tonight once it had been idling for a bit and the enigne was up to temp, still got a 3000rpm limit for the first 60miles to run the charger in.
First i forgot to reset the throttle limits so the ecu thought the throttle was open but it was shut so it was over fueling, anyway heres the vid of it running properly. need to tidy the bay up now i know it all works ok.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/GCW9VSA4EpA[/youtube]
-
Be intrested in purchasing a intake off you if you ever decide you wan't to fab more ... PM me if you decide to do some ... thanks!
-
Breakthrough with the lights!!!
It would appear that the kind people at BMW made the bracket for the smiley light just then right size for the new head lights ive got to fit streight in to!!
I'll let the pics do the talking but this seams like its now going to be a case of a few self tapper in to the bmw frame from the frame of my new lights and a loom plug :D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00415.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00413.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00416.jpg)
Only thing i need to check is how far back they sit behind the grill but i'am sure its going to be pritty close!
Time for a small up date.
Got the lights finaly working after a small problem, copied the diagram with the relay from rix313s thread to turn the dip feed off when the main beam came on so as not to burn the bulb out.
Worked fine with the lights on but it ment that because the mains were relying one feed from the dips to supply the mains when the main feed switched the relay if you didnt have the lights on you would couldnt flash any one, say at junctions or what ever.
so spoke to rich to see if he's managed to work out away round it which he had, running the mains off the switch of the relay (main feed> relay coil> lights> earth)
It worked but on my lights anyway it made them dim, probly the coil acting like resistor. So anyway i linked the main feed to the coil to the + for the light and meaning you could flash some one but if you had the dips on you wouldnt be able to turn them off.
nearly there, the main was feeding back through the relay and keeping the main on so.... i disconnected the pin from number 87 on the relay so when the relay switched from the main feed it turned the dips off but didnt turn anything else on as the mains feed was linked to the main beem light directly, hope that makes sence :D :D
So heres the finished look.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00487.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00486.jpg)
Also got the car booked in to go and get remapped at emerald on the 3rd of april to get a rough map to run the new engine in when its built up :D should also get a good feel for how its going to go when its done :D
To get the car running and drivable i fitted this copper dip stick tube to make it all work but wasnt relay happy with it.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00481.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00482.jpg)
So borrowed some pipe benders from work to day and bent an origonal dip stick to fit :D just need re painting.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00488.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00489.jpg)
-
As some of you may know i bought some M42 supertech valves, retainers and springs off E-bay from a guy in ireland from an unfinished project.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00399.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00398.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00465.jpg)
These are solid and made of better suited material than the bmw ones for my boosted application.
However, when i got them and measured them the stems were only 6mm not the usual 7mm on and e30 m42, e30 is the important bit here, emailed supertech ot ask how i was supposed to fit then and made out i'd just got them from one of there dealers.
Turns out then never new the m42 was in a E30 and these valves were made for the e36 m42 which had 6mm valves from mid 92 onwards up till the m44 came along. however they did offer to make me a set of new guides so they would fit my e30 7mm head for £8 each plus Vat + shipping
Pure luck would have it i bought a e36 m42 head off kedge last year with a job lot of m42 bits he was selling and the guides look to me good in this so ive have sent this off to be re cut to suit the new valves.
the other problem is that the stem seals are also 6mm and these are also harder to get hold of although ive now been able to get hold of some, and the guides are NLA just so you know.
Before the head went off i stripped it and steam cleaned it, heres the pics.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00467.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00466.jpg)
And whats all this got to do with todays up date?
When i sorted the stem seals it was only a tenner more for a Victor rymes ( eom) head gasket set than bmw wanted for just 16 stem seals and i thought that the other gaskets would probly come in handy at some point, like today, so i orderd one.
I orederd the gasket set thursday and was told it would be here today for me to pickup from parkside bmw.
So woke up early on my day off and started to do the timeing case gasket which has leaked ever since i got the car but has started to get worse of late, thought i'd be able to get to the gasket without taking the thermostat housing off but snapped one of the heads off the case bolts in the removal process and it turns out i wouldn't have been able to change the gasket anyway with the housing on.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00497.jpg)
so a simple job turns in to a major one, draind the coolent and removed the housing, removed the timing case cover which wasnt realy down to the gasket and was sitting proud of the rest of the head at the top( the holes are slotted so it does move during installation) this means the cam cover/gasket was sitting on a small step, removed the snapped bolt stud with mole grips.
It is actuly quite clean in there although the phones flash has made it look abit more orangey than it is.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00498.jpg)
next stuffed half a roll of kitchen paper down the timing case hole to stop sh1t going down when i cleaned the gasket surfaces (yes i made sure i got it all out again :D ) also borrowed the hoover to catch the crap thas had got in the little gaps.
You can see from the cleaned timing case were the oil had soaked in to the crap on the cover and stopped it from corroding
theres a diagnol line from between the top and 2nd hole on the left hand side to the bottom hole on the right hand side
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00500.jpg)
So with everything cleaned ready to be re assembled rang parkside, no gasket set, ECP/GSF have no 6mm stem seal gasket sets in stock at any store. so its been reordered from some were else for tomorrow.
Moral of the story, never ever do a "small job" when you know you need your car the next day, or when its going 100miles to get remapped on friday, i should no better :mad:
Also got this made at the weekend for my run down to emerald as the cars abit hard to drive as you cant use light throttle openings to much or the AFR leans out, its ok on WOT though winkeye
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00495.jpg)
Well, went down to see Dave Walker yesterday and got the car remapped with the new charger on.
Set off from mine at 12 and got to his for 3ish, i can say that a 3hour 100mile drive in a a car that you cant realy use part throttle on stuck behind lorries on the A17 isn't much fun!
I had to keep dropping back, using half throttle then knock it out of gear and coast for a bit to keep the AFRs from going lean.
The journey back was alot smoother apart from a large foam fire extinguisher i had on the back seat went off whilest exiting a roundabout, the hose was pointing forward and sent foam on to the back of the seats, dash, windscreen and me, then filled up the back seat foot well so i had to stop and clear some of it out, you can just see what i scraped off my arm on to the floor in this pic, luckily it seamed to disolve ok with out damaging anything. :D Sh1t me up abit :lol:
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00501.jpg)
Anyway, heres the results so far, Asked dave to map it up till it made 8psi boost as i didnt what to go much more than what it was running before still on the standard internals.
BHP - Red
Tourque - Blue
AFR - Green
Boost - Purple
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00502.jpg)
And heres the new plot against the first set up.
Supercharger setup #1 - 205bhp@6521rpm 178ftlb@4310rpm
Supercharger setup #2 - 187bhp@5301rpm 185ftlb@5301rpm
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg315/Appletree318is/DSC00503.jpg)
As you can see from the graph the new setup is going to be a much more topend power build and feels as if just starting to get in to its stride past 4.5krpm which is what i missed so much with the Eaton blower making the car much more low down torquey car.
Just looking at the curves and putting a rule next to them if it carries on rising like it appears to be at 6500rpm i think i should be seeing something like 13-14psi boost and 260ish BHP, which int bad but i was hopeing for a little more, so might have to fit a smaller pully at some point although i cant find much info on how the rotrex boost changes as they become more effiecent higher in the RPM.
I also had the pleasure of seeing/hearing the RX7 with the LS? engine in it Dave writes about in his "Walkers World" section in PPC 7ltr 700bhp V8 :drool: :wan:
What a car that thing is, dave took it for a spin and said you can almost feel the chassis twisting under the power
-
love this thread, subscribing right after i post this. im just wondering what you are running as far as a computer because i dont think there are too many tuning shops around me for e30s so i would probably have to self tune, which i dont trust myself on too much :(. and what did you ended up doing to lower the compression. im really new to e30s, i dont even own one yet but im trying to pick one up within the next month, and i love the rotrex! :D
-
I thought the same as you RE tuning but its so easy on these they're fab cars. There are loads or tuners about if you dont feel up to it too.
-
I'am running an Emerald ECU, mapped by dave walker at Emerald
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/
-
is there a reason you didnt put the supercharger where ac used to be?
-
awesome stuff man post some videos on youtube and send us a link
-
is there a reason you didnt put the supercharger where ac used to be?
I looked at it but it became quite apparent it would be very very hard (don't like to say impossible lol) to make work. The inlet to the charger sits right under the exhaust and right infront of the engine mount so no room for pipes.
-
Anymore detail on how the pulley setup is? I've been looking at various SC setups on various cars and one thing people seem to ignore is how they handle the pulleys. Are you still running Ac/ps or did you ditch those?
-
No A/C, the alternator is sitting where the pump would be. He's running PAS. He is running the standard CPS trigger wheel and single V which the alternator runs off of. He then modified an M43 6tooth crank pulley by machining off the trigger teeth and machining a spacer to sit between the M42 crank pulley and the M43 one running the charger. Can't remember his PAS set up.