M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: Xtremelylow on November 04, 2008, 03:13:41 PM
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So I have a 1994 318IS that I am boosting. I know a lot of guys say just swap it for a 6 but I want to be different so the build has begun. I am going to start posting pics of progress and details on the build as it continues. Here is a pic of the car before we started. So Far the front bumper & hood have been removed along with A/C, stock fans, and exhaust. Last night the new front bumper was fitted along with the front mounted flexalite fan and we started measuring for intercooler mounting.
(http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/409000-409999/409719_52_full.jpg?364906-297)
(http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v350/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1068096_7722.jpg)
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at 7psi with just a rrfpr my car beats 328s.. Get rid of that big restrictive electric fan and get yourself a smaller ebay cheapy... My m42 actulay runs cooler with the electric fan removed and with the clutch fan runing
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Nice project. Great to see another person going the FI route rather than changing to a 6 potter!!
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at 7psi with just a rrfpr my car beats 328s.. Get rid of that big restrictive electric fan and get yourself a smaller ebay cheapy... My m42 actulay runs cooler with the electric fan removed and with the clutch fan runing
beating 328s thats awesome what kinda tune r you running ?? that is a flexilite cyclone fan seems to work good. There wont be any room for the clutch fan anymore. My car is going upto Azevedo Motor Sports in New Jersey on Feb 20th to get dyno tuned. I am told with a good tune I should be able to run 10 to 12psi. I will keep everyone updated as the build continues.
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beating 328s thats awesome what kinda tune r you running ?? that is a flexilite cyclone fan seems to work good. There wont be any room for the clutch fan anymore. My car is going upto Azevedo Motor Sports in New Jersey on Feb 20th to get dyno tuned. I am told with a good tune I should be able to run 10 to 12psi. I will keep everyone updated as the build continues.
No tune.. Stock computer! ... I use a boost reference rising rate fuel regulator 12:1..
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Keep us updated!
This is pretty interesting sounding :)
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I have to take some new pics but the intercooler is all mounted, and we fabbed up a custom piece below the heater control that holds all 5 gauges.
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how much is this costing?? I did my whole setup for $1500
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I have about $1000 in parts and am doing all the work at my buddys shop after hours
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nice! im glad your not spending like five grand because it's so not nessary... you will have to come to ottawa and show me this at one of our friday meets next summer
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ya man sounds good to me.
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how much psi do you plan on running and what kind of tune? Buddy of mine hooked me up with some volvo turbo spark plug's and they made a hudge diffrence at 1deg cooler
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Enough talk! More pics! ;)
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Enough talk! More pics! ;)
Hoho.... More pics!! and.... dyno results!! I am eager to see what power you are getting out from your turbo M42!!
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mine is very well estimated to be 205 crank at 7psi ... I will be running 12 psi with bigger injectors... buddy down here did the Qmile in 14.1@12psi without LSD and a bad shift into 3rd... I was surprized! ... Mind you that was a e30 body
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I am taking the car to Azevedo Motorsports in New Jersey Feb 20th to get dyno tuned at 10 to 12psi. I will have some more pics this week.
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what size of injectors are you using?
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I dont know forsure yet. I was told that stock ones would handle 10-12psi with a proper tune ??
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I get pre Ignition at 10 psi with the fuel rail at 90psi in boost...stock injectors can handle 8 psi MAx!! Do not use stock injectors or you will cook that motor... I have been down the pre Ign road and it's not a healthy one... Im just lucky I have tuned ears or I would have blown the motor
Depending on what intake manifold you have ... you will need special adapters for new injectors
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my car is a 94, what injectors would I need and where do you get the adapters ?
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310cc 30Lb injectors & the only place I know where you can get the adapters is http://www.techniquetuning.com/contact.htm you have to call or email them to confirm they still sell them
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So I finally took some new pics.
First here is my buddys E30 that we just finished
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122900_9722.jpg)
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122901_9952.jpg)
(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122902_176.jpg)
And back to the Turbo Build pics
Intercooler
(http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122906_1085.jpg)
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122907_1322.jpg)
Custom Gauge Pod made of metal
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122904_631.jpg)
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122905_857.jpg)
Hmmm lots of room I wonder whats going in there ??
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1122903_401.jpg)
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Hmmm lovin that guage setup!! can't wait to see the finished project in the summer :)
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That e30 looks nice. A buddy of mine did the same thing to the hood, except that he put stripe on each end of the center part to devide the black from the rest of the car. As for the e36, maybe this will convince me to stick to the M42 and not swap for a s52....:D
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I just talked to Nick @ Technique Tuning and they still sell the Injector adapters. They are going for $96 + s&h. I am going to order up a set tomorrow.
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I just talked to Nick @ Technique Tuning and they still sell the Injector adapters. They are going for $96 + s&h. I am going to order up a set tomorrow.
Perfect!! great investment !! just find some high impodence 30lb injectors and you will be on a roll...12PSI will run perfect with those and the tune ... good luck!~
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So we mounted the turbo today what do you think ?? Sorry for the cellphone pics.
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1132559_7002.jpg)
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v376/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1132560_7301.jpg)
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looks great!
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Don't mean to be a ass and love the hard work setup but 90% sure with 600+deg heat you will eat belt's, eat your coolant line, Cam pos sensor line will melt... I had a O2 signal wire a half a foot away from the down pipe on my setup and it melted and grounded out and I'm runing a bottom mount and it run's colder then any top mount setup by far... your going to have a heat over lap effect with that setup almost 100% sure
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ya that coolant line to the rad is rated for 300 deg max! I can tell you for sure the turbo hot side will reach in the 500 deg befor boost ... verified on my setup with laser
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I have no place to talk here, but I think the turbo should be relocated to the right a little so it could be put back and not so close to the front?
Just what came to my mind, perhaps bear can provide input?
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I have no place to talk here, but I think the turbo should be relocated to the right a little so it could be put back and not so close to the front?
Just what came to my mind, perhaps bear can provide input?
I know how hot these turbo's get.. I have burns from not even touching the damn thing
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Why would you put it there?
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Instead of being directly in front of the engine, there would no doubt be more ambient airflow on the sides (below the intake on the right side or some place) and not be heating up stuff up front?
Bear is correct, here is a example.
http://www.gurneyflap.com/bmwturbof1engine.html
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I totaly don't mean to be a damper on your project but I don't want you to blow this up and when you get into boost happy mode... no amount of guages will stop you from shifting from 2nd to third while in boost while showing off for a friend with a half melted coolant line ready to give way at any point and without coolant for 3ird to 4th shift you will pop your motor
Im not allways right by any mean's but I think alot of people will agree with me on this one
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I certainly do. I don't know much about turbo-ing, but damn they get extremely hot and I don't think it is a good idea to have that there!
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definatly would move the turbo down beside the block make a nice bottom mount like bears said hose's belts everything will melt and plus your gonna push all the hot air from the turbo over your engine which is just gonna increase engine temp just a thought
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Just wrap the pipe w/exhaust wrap and it will be fine. Hey it's different but with some good heat shielding it will work.
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Just wrap the pipe w/exhaust wrap and it will be fine. Hey it's different but with some good heat shielding it will work.
exhaust wrap will not stop that rad hose from geting soft or the belt for that matter ... the hotside of the turbo is just too close to thing's that can't handle that sorta heat
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thanks for concerns guys I appreciate the input. It looks alot closer in the pics then it is. We did a lot planning before putting the turbo where it is and I think that it is going to work. We are going to be using a different rad hose that gives more clearance and we are going to fab up a heatshield. I am also going to have the pipes ceramic coated.
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if this end's up working and all the power to ya! ... you better come to ottawa and show this off... defently unique ... good luck and keep the pix coming!
PS. can you PM me a price on the steller guage pod you made and shiped to ottawa
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I will definately be interested to see how it goes.
Hope all goes well, don't loose a finger :)
Cheers!
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thanks for concerns guys I appreciate the input. It looks alot closer in the pics then it is. We did a lot planning before putting the turbo where it is and I think that it is going to work. We are going to be using a different rad hose that gives more clearance and we are going to fab up a heatshield. I am also going to have the pipes ceramic coated.
IMHO, the heat should be OK if you are using a heat shield. One of the best heat sheild would be ceramic tape. Coating is good but I think you could coat and add another layer of tape. This will bring the heat down to manageable levels.
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if this end's up working and all the power to ya! ... you better come to ottawa and show this off... defently unique ... good luck and keep the pix coming!
PS. can you PM me a price on the steller guage pod you made and shiped to ottawa
Sounds good man I will keep everyone updated with the progress. I will ask my buddy that built that gauge pod if he is interested in fabbing up another one.
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Hey guys where do you guys have MAF sensor on the turbo cold air side or do you have it on the charge pipe ?? Also are you running BOV's into the atmosphere or recirculating them back into the intake ??
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I atmosphere dump and AFM is after the turbo...
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atmosphere dump no need to recirc AFM can go before or after up to you where ever you have more room
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That is really quite a stupid place to mount a turbo imo, for numerous reasons.
It will generate much more heat than the surrounding parts can handle, as mentioned above.
Think about your radiator and thermo also.
Turbo blanket is a must, if you leave it there.
What exhaust manifold design/shape/length are you using?
The thing will take 500rpm longer to spool than a turbo mounted closer to the exhaust. Maybe longer, if thats just a long tube from the standard extractors!
Heat wrap the entire exhaust manifold to retain heat.
The intake is going to be so long, and the route doesnt flow well, and by the time you pass the hot air through your intercooler and back infront of the engine bay itll be hot again!
Or is the hot pipe passing around to the r/h side of cooler first?
This will create more heat into the engine bay. And still be longer than necessary.
Dont place an intake pod filter anywhere near that engine bay because it will be sucking in air so hot that intake temperature will still be nasty, even after ic.
Aesthetically speaking, its ugly as fuck!
Good luck chief.:cool:
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Dude, props to you for the FI choice, but heaps of -ve points for Turbo location.
It is possible to mount the turbo at the exhaust manifold itself...
For example:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ts295/bmw/DSC_0914.jpg)
^hawt
EDIT: A C.O.P kit from Rob_E30 will allow you more room; deleting the coil pack mounted on the wheel arch area. This way, you can jam a tubby in where it used to be.
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What are you using for exhaust and intake manifolds?
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That is really quite a stupid place to mount a turbo imo, for numerous reasons.
Aesthetically speaking, its ugly as fuck!
Good luck chief.:cool:
mate no need to be rude hes giving it a go and i cants see any problems with it.
most fwd cars have turbo in the same spot and are alot tighter fit , with head sheilds and wrap it wont be a issue at all.
good luck looks good sumthing different to the usual.
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For example:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/ts295/bmw/DSC_0914.jpg
^hawt
can you tell me who is the owner of that car? He is on a web forum? Links? I would like more pics and info, can you send me a pm with details on that car?;)
thanks
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mate no need to be rude hes giving it a go and i cants see any problems with it.
most fwd cars have turbo in the same spot and are alot tighter fit , with head sheilds and wrap it wont be a issue at all.
good luck looks good sumthing different to the usual.
Hi fellow aussie, was just my opinion, better to be harsh and realistic than have him listen to a sweetened version. He needs to rethink the design.
With factory turbo ff cars the turbo is mounted lower and heat shielded.
Being an east-west design there are less meltable parts along the block.
The exhaust header is directly over turbine housing-quick spool up.
They generally run top mount intercoolers or side mounts so the inlet path isnt 10 feet long.
I suggested a turbo blanket and heat wrap if he wants to persist, but the inlet and exhaust routes are terrible and unfixable with turbo in that location.
Remove the washer bottle and coilpacks. Mount it near the shock tower.
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can you tell me who is the owner of that car? He is on a web forum? Links? I would like more pics and info, can you send me a pm with details on that car?;)
thanks
That is (another) ;) swedish BMW turbo build. The guy who built it has sold the engine and the new owner has some engine pics here --> http://www.e30.se/Fredrik/Motorn/Motorn.htm
Some info on the engine can be found here --> http://www.e30.se/Fredrik/Fredrik318is.htm although it's in swedish..
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That is (another) ;) swedish BMW turbo build. The guy who built it has sold the engine and the new owner has some engine pics here --> http://www.e30.se/Fredrik/Motorn/Motorn.htm
Some info on the engine can be found here --> http://www.e30.se/Fredrik/Fredrik318is.htm although it's in swedish..
Thank you! I forgotten PPF forum:D Had a great read this morning.. crazy guys I need to learn swedish to make my holidays in there:)
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Intrested to see these injector adapters... could you post a picture?? I might get these for mysetup also
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Intrested to see these injector adapters... could you post a picture?? I might get these for mysetup also
here is it.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/host/injbung.jpg)
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where did you buy those from?
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where did you buy those from?
I don't have them, it's only a picture that I saved time ago because I was thinking to buy them.
The picture is about the ones from Technique Tuning, only picture I have about them.
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intresting! it almost looks like the oposite of what is needed ... it looks like those adapters accept bigger orings then the big stock injectors...odd!
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intresting! it almost looks like the oposite of what is needed ... it looks like those adapters accept bigger orings then the big stock injectors...odd!
I never saw the other side :D but is not like it seems...
TT done that bigger diameter part to have a great fit in the injector hole in the manifold, just like the stock injectors form is.
They're easy to replicate if you have the right tools without paying 100usd for 4 small pieces of SSteel or alu or what they are ;)
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I never saw the other side :D but is not like it seems...
TT done that bigger diameter part to have a great fit in the injector hole in the manifold, just like the stock injectors form is.
They're easy to replicate if you have the right tools without paying 100usd for 4 small pieces of SSteel or alu or what they are ;)
$120 shiped is a little much for something like that... kind of a piss off
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I know, so for the half of that price I bought one entire E36 M42 manifold with standard injectors and I'll use it with turbo ;)
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realy ?? e36 what year??
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I don't know what year is in there, but here in Europe from the start to 12/1993 they had standard injectors ;)
I have the M44 and this swap is more complicated because of DISA (M42 is vacuum actuated, M44 is electric). I hope to have all parts before christmas so I can see how it will fit and if there will be problems. I see that the bracket that hold the M42 manifold is different from the M44 one, so I'll have to fab a new bracket :D
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Here are some more pics that I took on the weekend
(http://photos-b.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v1660/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1230649_6532.jpg)
(http://photos-c.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v1660/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1230650_6774.jpg)
(http://photos-d.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v1660/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1230651_7015.jpg)
(http://photos-e.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v1660/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1230652_7273.jpg)
(http://photos-f.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v1660/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1230653_7512.jpg)
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Looking good!! just a note though, the rubber boot at the throtle body will not hold 12 psi the way it is so just make a wire frame that conforms to the boot and wrap it up with hockey tap or whatever you prefer and you will have no problems... can't wait to see this go !
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Looking good!! just a note though, the rubber boot at the throtle body will not hold 12 psi the way it is so just make a wire frame that conforms to the boot and wrap it up with hockey tap or whatever you prefer and you will have no problems... can't wait to see this go !
Cool man sounds good how do you like the 3" exhaust off of turbo ?? looks pretty beefy eh ?
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Cool man sounds good how do you like the 3" exhaust off of turbo ?? looks pretty beefy eh ?
looks good haha no turbo choke with that sucker ... did you clamp everything under the first half of your intake manifold? what size injectors did you end up going with?
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no I haven't clamped them all down yet still gotta do that. I didn't get injectors yet I called tuning guy again and he is telling me to go 45lb injectors still.
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thats pretty sweet cool set up man looks good. definaltly go with 42lbs injectors bosch type lime green top they are more than enough. you bettter heat wrap the upper rad hose really good just to be safe.
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thats pretty sweet cool set up man looks good. definaltly go with 42lbs injectors bosch type lime green top they are more than enough. you bettter heat wrap the upper rad hose really good just to be safe.
I agree 45lb is overkill! ... 12 psi and 42lb is plenty and if you decide to upgrade the head gasket, studs and you will still have room to push more fuel and 15 psi in the future ... actulay a MLS head gasket is only $145 and you can get high strength studs at ottawa fastener for a good price
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thats pretty sweet cool set up man looks good. definaltly go with 42lbs injectors bosch type lime green top they are more than enough. you bettter heat wrap the upper rad hose really good just to be safe.
Thanks man. Do you have any parts #s for the lime green top injectors ? Actually we made a upper rad hose out of rollcage tubing so there wont be any heat issues with it
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I will check at work tomorrow if i have the part # i will get it one way or another. i know that VW guys are using them for turbo 2.0L thats how i found them i think they were around 90-100$ a peice brand new.
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i hate to bring this up again but with my future plans to turbo i hate to see this done so wrong. the turbo in that lo ation WILL NOT give you anything near satisfactory results. the turbo lag with it sitting that far away will be tremendous. also as was said before, heat will be a major problem. not necessarily just for those hoses and belts but the air in the entire engine bay will be extremely hot and could mean suicide on your cooling system. with the combination of heat and the length your pipes will be apart, the recirculating air will be far from ideal as well. to be honest, mounting the turbo on the manifold or at least way closer would be just plain easier as well. i really really strongly urge you to reconsider the placement for optimum performance and driveability, but hey its your car and your money, just tryin to help out.
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Here are some new pics. Exhaust is all fabbed and off of the car for final welding.
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436219_4182.jpg)
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436220_4458.jpg)
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436221_4731.jpg)
(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436222_5001.jpg)
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436223_5285.jpg)
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436224_5558.jpg)
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436225_5836.jpg)
(http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436226_6120.jpg)
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436227_6400.jpg)
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436228_6685.jpg)
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436229_6971.jpg)
(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436230_7279.jpg)
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436231_7576.jpg)
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I have a e36 94 318is aswell and i pulled my injectors and found that my injectors are the same ones as the m44 there the ones with the vacume T to them. now my question is what are my options for bigger injectors?
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I got the injector adapters from technique tuning in florida so then u can run standard injectors again. I got a set of Accell 44lbers
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hey what are you planning on using for a/f control? some sort of piggy back module or a stand alone?
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The car is booked in for a dyno tune at Azevedo Motorsports in NJ on Feb 20th, they are going to burn the factory ecu
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Holy shit thats a lot of pipework. At that point I would just mount the turbo under the car where the muffler sits or in the back. But its not my project. Nice work. Can't wait to see the dyno.
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The car is booked in for a dyno tune at Azevedo Motorsports in NJ on Feb 20th, they are going to burn the factory ecu
cool...i didn't realize that there's support for burning dme chip for e36 m42 engines. i'm currently debating on if i should buy a smt7 or the map-ecu2 to get rid of my afm & get larger injectors to run my dasc correctly. i'm tired of my fmu wasting gas by running rich most of the time.
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UPDATE
We got the 44lb injectors installed tonight and the car fired right up with no tune. It smoked alot and the car did idle by itself but was alittle off. We took the car for a quick test drive came back and the computer seemed to compinsate for the bigger injectors and the car actually idled fairly normal with minimal smoke. So with this done the car is now ready for the dyno day on Feb 20th. I will let everyone know how that goes and will try to get some dyno videos too.
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UPDATE
We got the 44lb injectors installed tonight and the car fired right up with no tune. It smoked alot and the car did idle by itself but was alittle off. We took the car for a quick test drive came back and the computer seemed to compinsate for the bigger injectors and the car actually idled fairly normal with minimal smoke. So with this done the car is now ready for the dyno day on Feb 20th. I will let everyone know how that goes and will try to get some dyno videos too.
nice , if you can make shots on afr too :)
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The Car is getting Dyno Tuned I forgot to mention that in the last post.
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Where are you buying your turbo set up for only $1500 i haven't been able to find anything that cheap. i get quotes for $5000 engine rebuild and $3000 turbo. I'm not made of money, so if you can tell me where to find a kit that cheap ill be turboing my E36 318iS as well.
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Also, is there a need to rebuild the engine? will the gaskets and seals be able to handle the pressure of boost? I don't want to blow up a perfectly good engine with stupidity. your input is greatly appreciated. thank you.
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UPDATE
The car is done and loaded on the trailer. We are heading out Friday at 3am for Philly, PA to drop it off at Vac Motorsports for a Dyno Tune.
(http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2241/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1516138_5550.jpg)
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2241/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1516140_6238.jpg)
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Did you do something with DISA?? Will it work OK when boost comes?
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Cant believe that exhaust. Thats the funniest shit ever!
That is actually the standard headers, which being 4-2-1 extractors are quite long for a factory car, then the connecting pipe does a 180 turn and up into the engine bay about eleventybillion miles away!
I thought my comments months ago may have set you on the right path to correct research. Wrong.
Thanks though, i laughed hard
Newbies, dont do anything like this, read about successful conversions on m42's and rwd turbos in general.
Al
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do you think this rubber boot is going to hold your FI ?
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2078/55/58/514335885/n514335885_1436220_4458.jpg)
from my car (i have a 95 M42 engine in my car) this crappy piece of rubber tends to die really soon.
the DASC kit i've got just removes it completely from that reason (among others)
...
Ron.
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Probably wont make 3psi till 8grand anyhow:D