M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine management => Topic started by: nofear3544 on October 19, 2008, 09:33:50 PM
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Okay so his problem began a few months ago when the idle started to fluctuate and when I started the car cold, the idle would drop (sometimes stalling) and i had to give it gas until the car warmed up. After driving if I stopped at a light the car would rev normal but a check engine light would pop up for the afm. The car felt like it was using a bit more gas than normal as well.
I recently replaced the afm with a brand new re manufactured one and now the idle does the same thing but its pulling a code for the o2 sensor. Now though when I stop at a light the idle does not want to come back down, it sits over 1100 rpms and just stays there until i take off again. could it be a bad o2 or is there another problem that could be triggering the sensor. I feel like there could be more gas being forced into the engine.
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Is the throttle stuck open? When it's idling fast open the hood and try to manually close the throttle by hand. If it does, somethings not right with the throttle body.
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Does it still do the initial start fluctuation problem? If you are lucky your o2 went bad and replacing it will fix your problem. If you are unlucky like so many others on this board, you'll replace the o2. Car will run dreamy for a few hours or longer (depending on how you drive). Then you'll be back where you started. That's what happened to me anyway.
If you figure it out plz post the culprit.
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i have messed with the throttle when it seems stuck and there is no difference everything is working as it should. I am planning on taking it down to a shop tom to have a friend look at it. I do believe i may have a bad o2 along with faulty houses under my intake manifold. As soon as It is fixed or the problem is diagnosed I will post it.
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I have my money on massive vacuum leaks in the hoses below the intake manifold.
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I have my money on massive vacuum leaks in the hoses below the intake manifold.
You would, haha. It seems the TB heater delete and subsequent vacuum hose replacement is more of a maintainance step these days. Everyone is doing it, you sir are a trend setter.
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What can I say. I stick with what works.
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Might be the valve cover breather hose.
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What can I say. I stick with what works.
Didn't work for mine :) Though it did make the engine bay a whole lot tidier.
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okay so the task of deleting the mess of hoses is complete but there is still no change in my idle.. actually its kinda worse even though I found a giant hole in a hose. I checked my codes and it was pulling a code for emissions (its code c9 using the peake tool). Im not sure what this means exactly but I just had my O2 sensor replaced today and the CE light is only coming on if the car idles for a while. Im going to try and clear the code and see if it comes back. it might just need to be cleared since the new O2 was installed.
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icv
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icv
EXACTLY.
When the ICV starts to go bad, the symptoms you describe is only ONE of MANY for a bad or fouled ICV valve.
Do this - start the car, once it gets to normal operating temp and while the car is at idle - get a small hammer and tap the metal exterior of the ICV valve... upon doing this, you should experience an immediate idle fluctuation - it could go higher, lower or stall...
Now, remove the ICV from the vehicle. Get some electrical cleaner (available at most parts stores and I think it's manufactured by CRC - red & white can, black top). Turn the ICV upside down, squirt the cleaner into the ICV until it starts to flow out of it or it overflows... Prop the ICV up against something so the cleaner won't leak out. Let it sit for roughly 10-15 REAL minutes. Pick up the ICV after it has sat, cap both holes to the ICV w/ your fingers and shake it vigoriously, then dump out all of the liquid cleaner. Repeat the soak & shake process one more time, only this time, take a hammer and tap around the entire exterior casing of the ICV. This tapping will dislodge any other carbon particles from the interior (you can tap it pretty hard - but not too hard to dent or break anything). After tapping the case, cap the holes, shake and pour out the cleaner. Let the ICV sit to dry for about 5-10 REAL minutes, then reinstall. After reinstalling you SHOULD experience better idle, better drivability and smoother operating ICV.
If after reinstalling if you don't experience ANY changes at all - time to buy a new ICV (which runs about $130.00+ depending on what vendor you buy it from).
I've been able to bring my ICV back from the "dead" multiple times so far - just needs a few taps & a cleaning and it's good to go for months at a time.
The issue is, an ICV that's never been cleaned has a ton of carbon build up inside of it, which hampers the internal spring/valve operation and causes it to stick (when it sticks, it could stick closed which would create a non-start or stall issue, it could stick partially open which would cause low idle and idle problems or it could stick wide open which would cause very high idle). Once an ICV is cleaned, it usually works normal again.
:D
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cool thanks for that info, ill def try cleaning it.. I did reset the ce light and and after driving it around town I'm still pulling a code. If you check it with the tool it says emissions and if I check it manually using the gas pedal I get a 1222 for oxygen sensor.
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If the O2 is old w/ many miles on it, or if it may be original - replace it. O2's are really only good for about 40,000-50,000 miles, then they should be replaced, as they are not "lifetime" parts. Some vehicles will throw a code for a bad O2, while others do not, because the DME (or brain) will try to compensate for the bad O2, sometimes causing problems w/ the air to fuel ratio (car may run rich or lean and you'll notice this in your gas mileage).
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I just replaced it because of the code and its still showing 1222 even though the car is running better.
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i need to work on my ICV as well...
but i still need to get my motor put back together before i start a new project :cool:
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I just replaced it because of the code and its still showing 1222 even though the car is running better.
When I got this code, we changed all of the hoses, but nothing seemed to work. It turned out to be a head gasket and a cracked head for me. Hopefully you do not have this problem...
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yea lets hope this isnt my problem.. with only 150k she's still pulling pretty hard.
Okay so get this.. I did like cobra suggested took the icv off and cleaned with electrical cleaner and let it sat and then tapped and repeated. I put everything back together and car starts up fine. i back out of my drive and take off down the street and at the first stop sign when i pushed in the clutch the car just completely stalled out. (now im starting to get a little pissed). I take off and make a few more stops and at each one the car stalled when the clutch was engaged.
I get home turn the car off, go eat, go back out to the car to take it out again and its fine (a little rough idle on cold start along with the ce light that only comes on when idling) and its been that way ever since.
Could the icv be shot and sticking. im really baffled with this thing. anyone in nj that can take a look at it?
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Check the large vaccum hose on the driver's side below the air intake. Mine had the same problem and stalled out on me. It may have come undone. Check, u never know.
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Warm the engine up, then shut it off, disconnect the ICV connector and start the engine back up, still doing it?
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worn AFM spring will throw 1222 ... I ajusted the tension on the door flap in the black box and car has not given me 1222 since( Only move the dial clockwise 5 notches max!)
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I just went out and looked over everything and i noticed that the pressure regulator (#6)http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0308&hg=13&fg=15
has a nozzle on it that I left uncovered and I wasn't sure what I should do with it.. should I use a small hose and just put a screw in it or does this have to be hooked up to something? I think this may just be the answer to my problems.
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Hook it up :)
I took a look where mine goes and it seems to go under the intake / throttle body, its dark out at the moment so I cannot see exactly where it goes.
This should be hooked up by all means!
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The fuel pressure regulator has to be hooked up the the throttle body with a vacuum hose in order to function. Without it the engine is getting way too much fuel at and near idle. Don't put a screw in it.
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ok is this where it goes on the tb. just to make sure. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0578&hg=13&fg=15
right there on the nozzle in the middle.
Thanks for all the help i really appreciate it.
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ok is this where it goes on the tb. just to make sure. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0578&hg=13&fg=15
right there on the nozzle in the middle.
Thanks for all the help i really appreciate it.
After i did my thottlebody heater delete i forgot to remove #7 and it was causing alot of noise under my hood.. TOTALLY OT had to add it though
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I don't see it in the real oem drawing. In this pic, the hose running to the side of the TB in the red circle. Huge pain in the ass to get to.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/3030322777_d28f5806f4_o.jpg)
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Okay, I hooked up that hose and once again cleared the cel. It wasnt bad hooking it up, just used a pair of needle nose pliers.
After clearing the cel, I took it on the highway and the light came back on but only when the gas pedal was kept in the same place for a minute or so doing over 40 mph. When the cel would come on i would give the car more gas or take my foot of the pedal the light would disappear. It was only when the speed was consistent that the light would stay on. I do feel like the car is using more gas than usual though. I think im getting around 26-28 on the highway which isnt the best.
I dont know what else I could replace. I did order new plugs and wires but I dont think that will make that much of an improvement.
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Did you use a used O2 sensor?
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no but i did purchase a cheap one on rmeuropean.com and I had to rewire it to fit. it looked the same as the stock O2 so i figured it would work, it just had a different plug. I do think im gonna purchase a new one and see what happens.
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not a bad idea, just to make sure you can scratch it off the checklist :)
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yeah hopefully something this simple is my problem.
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Don't want to seem like the dark cloud here... but I'll be very surprised if the o2 fixes it. I can't figure out what's throwing my 1222 code either. Causes crappy idle issues upon initial start... usually about a minutes worth. Then she drives like a new car, engine only has 36,000 miles on it. Here's the list of what I've replaced so far:
1. ICV (replaced)
2. Vacuum Leaks (did TB heater delete and replaced hoses)
3. o2 Sensor (replaced)
4. Plugs & Wires (replaced as part of maintenance)
5. Fuel Injectors (mustang 19#)
6. Exhaust Header Gasket (had a leak)
7. AFM (replaced)
8. Engine Temp Sensor (replaced)
9. Throttle Position Sensor (replaced)
10. ECU (swapped known good)
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Double post...
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added the new O2 sensor and figured i might as well add a new icv. unplugged the battery and installed both items and 30 min later hooked everything back up. I started the car to let it idle and recalibrate and the ce light came up again (code 1222). I dont think there is anything else left to replace except my ecu. car still feels like its dumping more fuel than it needs. any ideas left?
To date this is the list of what was done:
new O2 sensor
new icv
new afm
new hoses and tb delete
new spark plugs and wires
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i had a code in a ECU that seriously did not go away (even after removing battery power) until a tool reset it.
It was a similar code (main O2 sensor) from a spare ECU i bought off ebay.
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Fuel pump?
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reset the ce light with a tool (peake search tool) and unhooked the battery.. no luck. Is there any way to spot a bad pump? i feel like the fuel pump is fine, in fact i think that the problem is too much fuel. I mean the light only comes one when traveling at a consistent rate of speed on the highway.
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anyone ever seen a TPS wig out when driving on the highway like that?
that could be having x ammount of air going in and the TPS telling the ECU that y ammount is going in instead?
just noodling
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any way to tell? i have been noticing that every once in a while i feel like the throttle sticks a little between shifts.
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Well have you done a visual on the TB to make sure its working right mechanically?
Flipping it open and closed kinda quick with your thumb while watching it, about the speed of a high speed shift?
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i did mess around with it but i wasnt really sure what i was looking for. im going to pull it off again and replace the tb gaskets and also the switch i figured it couldnt hurt. ive already spent way too much money trying to fix this. I dont know if this helps at all either but when i start the car cold it makes a wine sound and it feels like the throttle sticks for a few seconds only on startup. then when shifting as soon as i depress the clutch the tack will stay at the current rpms for 1/2 a second before dropping (def more than normal you can feel a difference). I dont know if this helps at all but i figured more info cant hurt.
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Interesting, do you have a broken spring on your TB assembly?
Definately a visual (DO IT WHILE ITS STILL REALLY COLD!!!!)
and might even lube your throttle cable a little, I did mine the other day and it moves better now when I push on the pedal, not as much hesistation.
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hmm ill def give it a look.
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So i decided to order new gaskets and take everything apart again to make sure i did everything correctly. I put it back together and installed a new tb switch. I started it up and she purred like a kitten but after idling steady for about five min the ce light came on again same code 1222. She's idling like a champ and pulling like a champ but im getting awful gas mileage and this code will not go away. What would be responsible for dumping too much fuel in the system. could my ecu be shot? Also could my timing be off slightly?
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Swapping your ECU is a good idea, as the O2 sensor you swapped isnt causing the problem, changing out the ECU would be worth the time / trouble it takes :)
Aside from that, the fuel delivery system is probably what we need to start looking at next?
Also, what about your engine temp sensor?
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hmm. I dont if or when the engine temp sensor was changed and I will see if I can find another ecu to swap. I just think its weird how this problem just came out of nowhere. its starting to become very frustrating.
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I would imagine, I have had a couple really annoying things happen that took a while to run down, don't give up :)
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hi guys i m Fir from Malaysia.Driving a e36 318is.i had the same problem as well.n i did replace like what our friend did.i get really bad fume smell.but the driving is fine.only i hate the high idling n the smell.performance was fine..i got the o2 sensor fault too.very upset..
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Bad fume smells?
Do they change over the time when the car is warming up?
Or are they constant?
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so the ecu is on its way but ive notice things are getting worse. when im driving and i go to shift, as soon as i let off the gas the car either will stay at the same rps or give itself gas for a split second. I oiled the springs on the tb and everything looked to be working properly.
Also I dont know if this really matters but when i pulled the mainfold off a couple days ago I noticed that there was a slight oil buildup.
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Interesting, besides your ECU and TPS, I am not sure what else.
If your ECU is wacked, get that swapped out and we can go from there.
If you have access to a spare TPS, that would be worth checking out.
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could one of my injectors be bad and the other three try to be compensating for the faulty one.
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There would be a CEL and OBD code for an injector problem normally. However, stranger things could happen :)
Do you have spares to test with?
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I beleive you can test your TSP with an ohm meter... just unplug and check the resistance as you smoothly move the throttle. i'm not sure for the exact proceedure, but i remember seeing it here somewhere
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i replaced the tsp and i swapped the ecu yest and to no avail. cel came right on while idling. I took it down to a mechanic to get his opinion and he said its my fuel pressure regulator. any thoughts?
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Good to know about the TPS and ECU, FPR could be culprit, but what about your injectors?
How does it idle other than the CEL?
Does it pull well?
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it pulls like a champ and the it idles fine even if the cel comes on, it remains perfect. it only rides high when its cold. the thing thats starting to confuse me is when im on the highway it gives itself gas. ill let of the pedal and it will continue to give itself gas for a split second then the car will slow down. the same is when i press the clutch, u can hear and see it rev slightly by itself. I ordered a fpr so i should have it installed by next weekend.
Also I unplugged the O2 and drove it for about 100 miles to see if there was a difference and it feels the same.
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Interesting that you unplugg the O2 and its the same, did you get the same CEL 1222 with the O2 unplugged?
Is there a way to test the wiring of the TPS?
I have forgotten at this point, you did a visual on your TB and it opens and closes and is at the right places it should be, like being closed when throttle is at idle and open perfectly (not at an angle) when at WOT??
I presume this is how it should be...?
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yes the car is pulling the same code although now the cel is on all the time.
I dont know if this is relative to my situation but i have noticed that sometimes while raining if I go through a puddle and splash the bottom of the passengers side of the car, it seems like everything shorts out and the car almost stalls. All my lights pop up briefly on the dash (the cel,oil, brakes, etc) and then dissapear and the car is fine. I almost think that this problem is due to a broken wire and may have something to due with my 1222 code.
Also after startup when I take off and start driving, I will get a bell (the same bell for the door being ajar) but it will only ring once and will not sound again during the duration of trip.
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Do you have the ability to perform continuity tests on circuits down in the engine bay?
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haha i have no idea what that even means. im guess u mean checking the circuitry for shorts? im not sure how to do any of that and if i did i wouldnt know what to look for.
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If you have the E30 factory wiring documentation for the 318 you have, it will have a section twards the front on the required tools, teaching you how to test, and what each test means.
Yes this bassicly means testing the quality of the connection, shorts, etc.
The O2 sensor wiring, among other things is what we would want to initally test.
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So im not gonna jinx myself just yet but i think i may have fixed my problem and it turns out to be a combo of a faulty ecu and fuel pressure regulator. i drove 250 miles and to my surprise i havent had any codes popping up. i also tried swapping in the old ecu with a performance chip to see what happens and the code came right on. i think im gonna leave everything stock for a while.
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Excellent you are making progress!
Where is your FPR located physically?
I know many other are having idle related issues (somewhat different and perhaps different causes too) and any additional information is great!
The reason I ask about the FPR location is I do not know off the top of my head its location and this being interelated to a component attached to the chassis and not something on the engine itself.
As others have performed engine swaps as test (ACSchnitzer318 to name one)
and have found items other than components on the engine itself could be to blame as well.
Keep us up to date!
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its located right under the intake manifold in the front of the engine. (you can see it clearly without taking anything apart. its connected to the end of the fuel rail. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0308&hg=13&fg=15 (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AF93&mospid=47305&btnr=13_0308&hg=13&fg=15) number 6
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Cool, I figured that was the one, I could not remember if there was another somewhere inline / tank area.
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any updates on this?
Is your car running normally?