M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: m44power on September 16, 2008, 02:50:12 PM
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Single Row Chain anyone knows something about this modification ? maybe a chain of M30 can do the job ? or from a new N43 ? does it worth the trouble ?? any opinions?
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I do know MM has single row chains and sprockets for M42 but no sure how much it cost though. IMHO, single chain will reduce parasitic drag a little and should able to increase HP a little.
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MM uses original machined sprockets and some single chain i can see the benefits of this mod but it worth ?
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im sure its not more than 1hp, i think MM does it to extend the life for high revving engines.
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and what about parasitic drag ?
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Reduces rotating mass more rpm
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im think its verry easy conversion some machining and N4x chain
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I'd like to see someone attempt it and see if it's worth it. Could be another little job to add to my "to do" list. I'd give it a go myself, but if I balls it up then I'll be walking to work...
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I don't think the performance gain is worth the risk a of single chain, the twin chain is alot stronger and a safe gard if one breaks.
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there are a lot of things that can do to this engine before than that... :D
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I don't think the performance gain is worth the risk a of single chain, the twin chain is alot stronger and a safe gard if one breaks.
if you think about it...the fact that BMW have gone to the effort of developing a single row chain for the N4x series engine (we'll assume its safe) should be saying something.
And given it is a newer design, if it does fit???? it will also be most likely somewhat stronger than even our double row timing chains.
Don't forget that BMW was quite happy running the single row on the m30's and they even ran a single row chain on the euro version of the m88/3 in m635CSi's ;)
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if you think about it...the fact that BMW have gone to the effort of developing a single row chain for the N4x series engine (we'll assume its safe) should be saying something.
And given it is a newer design, if it does fit???? it will also be most likely somewhat stronger than even our double row timing chains.
Don't forget that BMW was quite happy running the single row on the m30's and they even ran a single row chain on the euro version of the m88/3 in m635CSi's ;)
+1 are m635csi a single row chain ?
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http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=5531&mospid=47202&btnr=11_0425&hg=11&fg=25
yes it is....
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there are a lot of things that can do to this engine before than that... :D
yes but this one it cost nothing...
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391g for the N42 chain and 894g for the M44 ;) that's some nice weight loss!
M43 (8v) sprocket is for single chain, do you think that two of the can fit on our engines with N42 chain?
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+1 are m635csi a single row chain ?
only the euro ones are, the US market M6 timing case and rocker cover are 6mm longer in order to fit a dual row timing chain. The desing process behind that is unknown to me.
Wow the n42 chain is quite a bit lighter, but how long is it? What about pitch?
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Wow the n42 chain is quite a bit lighter, but how long is it? What about pitch?
the only way to know is: "Who want to be the guinea pig?" :D
no way to know those info without buy parts...:confused:
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i prefer to machine m42 original sprockets than use some m43 ones also im gone be the guinea pig :p im working in a BMW service the first one N4x chain i can get from a broken motor im gone compare with my old m42 chain... stay tuned
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you will not need to wait until a n42 broke!
I've found a lot of chain specification ;) will post the data later in the day! there are some candidates, but there isn't a chain with ALL the exact sizes but single rows... there are some that are exact pitch, pin diameter... but near to our chain's length, not exact, and they are not only from BMW :)
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if they are the same pitch and are longer they can be made to our length ;)
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so here is what I found... after a bit of time and effort I found that there is ONE manufacture that do chains for BMW. Its name is IWIS. I searched and I found its website and its catalogue :)
- first read these references to understand chain names and chain attributes.
http://www.iwis.com/index.php?id=674
Then you search the catalogue what model is your stock chain and you search in the reference other models with same specs, but single row and same length or longer than your stock:
- CATALOGUE WITH OEM PART NUMBERS, MODEL OF CHAIN AND LENGHT
http://www.iwis.com/index.php?id=669
I searched and I found some candidates, I'll leave it to you to do the same analysis.
Have fun cross searching! They use some old part numbers.
now who will do this mod for first? :)
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I'm willing to do it in the track car engine if someone donates good condition sprockets! Mine are stuffed and will need replacememnt before i go racing :(
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so here is what I found... after a bit of time and effort I found that there is ONE manufacture that do chains for BMW. Its name is IWIS. I searched and I found its website and its catalogue :)
- first read these references to understand chain names and chain attributes.
http://www.iwis.com/index.php?id=674
Then you search the catalogue what model is your stock chain and you search in the reference other models with same specs, but single row and same length or longer than your stock:
- CATALOGUE WITH OEM PART NUMBERS, MODEL OF CHAIN AND LENGHT
http://www.iwis.com/index.php?id=669
I searched and I found some candidates, I'll leave it to you to do the same analysis.
Have fun cross searching! They use some old part numbers.
now who will do this mod for first? :)
Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm having a hard time understanding when one of those chains would work. What needs to bee the same for a single row chain to work with the M42? Also once you find a chain that would work, what kind of machine work needs to be done on the sprockets? What about the chain guides and tensioner?
I checked MM website, they don't show that they sell the single row chain. I emailed them to ask if they did, but I never got a response. Sucks that they sell just about everything else except the single row chain mod.
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I also wrote them an @mail and it takes some time but I'm sure they will reply your mail.
Have you see that in there engine booklet they say that you have to add $200 to your engine at MM for the single row timing chain?
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Have you see that in there engine booklet they say that you have to add $200 to your engine at MM for the single row timing chain?
Yeah, I saw that, which is why I asked them if they sell this individually.
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Funny, here in the states, "stuffed" is what happens when you eat too much at lunchtime or try to fit large tires into small wheelwells...
if you think about it...the fact that BMW have gone to the effort of developing a single row chain for the N4x series engine (we'll assume its safe) should be saying something.
And given it is a newer design, if it does fit???? it will also be most likely somewhat stronger than even our double row timing chains.
Don't forget that BMW was quite happy running the single row on the m30's and they even ran a single row chain on the euro version of the m88/3 in m635CSi's ;)
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Funny, here in the states, "stuffed" is what happens when you eat too much at lunchtime or try to fit large tires into small wheelwells...
I like how you quoted the wrong reply :) i said stuffed in a different post i think....stuffed, screwed, f***ed all the same
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whats the word on these single row chains? nuvolarossa says he found some possible candidates, anybody else try searching that list in his link?
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Watching this keenly now, I think my timing setup is in dire need of a refresh, so I may as well do this if it's worthwhile!
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hello.. new member here (with an M44).
I just ordered the single timing chain conversion from MM.
its $250 - but I did send them my old chain + cam sprockets + crank sprocket as cores - so I'm hoping to get a discount.
Its a family business - mother answers the phones & email, while the father & son are in the shop - so there is a delay in getting answers... Calling them is the best (ask for Teddy).
other item purchased:
MM's M44 Cyl head (stock cams)
M42 Turbo piston & rod set (in order to maintain the 10:1 compression ratio @ 2.0L)
360 degree main bearing oiling system (sent them my main caps for retrofit)
soon to be ordered as well:
MM's lightweight flywheel + M3 clutch
let you know how it turns out :)
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I just ordered the single timing chain conversion from MM.
its $250 - but I did send them my old chain + cam sprockets + crank sprocket as cores - so I'm hoping to get a discount.
Nice, thanks. $250 isn't that much more than it would cost to buy stock replacements for the chain and sprockets.
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yes, correct, it is not so bad... $250 is a long drinking weekend, sometimes :)
Nice, thanks. $250 isn't that much more than it would cost to buy stock replacements for the chain and sprockets.
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Here is an email I got back from MM, just a confirmation of what marko told us.
Hi JP - gosh we appreciate your email inquiry but sure do regret this delay.
Jim looked your message over and said that we could do this conversion kit for you
BUT - you'd have to send us your sprocket. Price would $250.
Let us know if you have other quesions.
Sincerely, Mary Rowe
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here is complete catalog of goodies from metric - as well as their price list on the bottom...
its soooo hard to keep your money in your pocket - when there is so much good stuff there.. I'm into them for about 4K already. :D
http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metric-mechanic-m42-and-m44-engine-booklet.pdf
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I've done a bit more digging an this subject, the BMW chain is a european duplex standard chain spec is 06B-2, 06B=3/8" pitch, -2=duplex chain. Based on this being a standard chain then you can go to most engineering suppliers and order a simplex (single row) version of the same thing. The IWIS catalogues suggests that it is a 120link chain, but I need to count this to be sure. I called a local distributor and the most expensive, durable and strongest chain on the market today is a Renold Synergy chain, which would outlast any OEM chain, a Synergy Simplex 06B-1 Chain in the UK comes in at £42.53+VAT @ 15% which is expensive, but not a huge amount, and I'm sure it could be found cheaper... This is made and riveted to length, not using a removable link (although emold claim their removable link is ok) You should be able to get one made locally in the US too.
http://www.renold.com/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.asp?lID=426&sID=942
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wow thanks for the great info Odbod. Will have to see what i can source locally, atleast now i know what to order :)
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one thing to keep in mind (after speaking with MM) is that the chain is not going to cause a problem - i.e. it will not break, however, MM told me that once my motor is installed with the STC conversion, I WILL have to keep a keen eye on the chain tensioner (checking it at least every 6 months) - making sure that the tension is optimal at all times.
appeareantly the chain will last fine providing there is no slack...
I'm getting my MM motor end of this month, & will let you guys know how it works out.
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I'm getting my MM motor end of this month, & will let you guys knwo how it works out.
OT: Marko: Maybe you covered this elsewhere, but what are you going to do with your DASC?
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keeping it... DASC is going on the MM motor.
somewhat like in the thread below, but with MUCH less boost :D
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24635
OT: Marko: Maybe you covered this elsewhere, but what are you going to do with your DASC?
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keeping it... DASC is going on the MM motor.
somewhat like in the thread below, but with MUCH less boost:D
nice! I'm jealous - but you should consider putting the setup into an E30 :cool:.
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there's a DASC kit on sale in te UK for £600 at the moment on http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/886244.htm
I've not got enough money to buy sadly, too much spent on a 2.0l build
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get it man... that is a steal! I paid 3.3K for mine...
it will enhance any other additional work on your motor... not too much boost & so you do not need any crazy mods like for a turbo (i.e. designed to work with stock internals - stock ecu, etc).
there's a DASC kit on sale in te UK for £600 at the moment on http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/886244.htm
I've not got enough money to buy sadly, too much spent on a 2.0l build
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yes, I should - you are right. :)
I absolutelly love E30s.. they have a special place in my heart, just like the 87-92 Gti 16Vs.
nice! I'm jealous - but you should consider putting the setup into an E30 :cool:.
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The early mercedes 2.3-16v motors used a single row timing chain, but they upgraded to the dual in the later model because of durability issues. I don't see a snapped timing chain thread in this forum, so maybe BMW got it right from the factory
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as promised - here are the pix of my upcoming MM motor with a single timing chain conversion... the guys from Metric have been kind enough to send me some pix from the build, to salivate over.
more pix of the entire thing here:
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25646
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/4-1.jpg?t=1235140841)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/11.jpg?t=1235140870)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/14.jpg?t=1235140895)