M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Exterior => Topic started by: Royalratch on August 13, 2008, 05:28:02 PM
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I've taken a deep breath and decided to attack the rust lurking in my sunroof.
Some background on the car. I've owned it for over 9 years and am very attached to it. It's very clean and I'm the second owner.
(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6434/img0217nl8.jpg)
(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/641/img0223jn6.jpg)
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2445/img0278nf0.jpg)
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5523/img0296ii5.jpg)
(http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9089/img0281hb1.jpg)
I've known about these bubbles for a while but just kind of buried my head in the sand about it as I know it spells big trouble. Especially if the rust seeps past the roof and eats into the a/b/c pillar- then you may well have to trash it.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6062/img0858an7.jpg)
So I took a deep breath and hacked back the roof-lining (it will get a new one anyway) and covered my head for the deluge of metal. The door seams and pillars are fine.
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9383/img0860gj1.jpg)
This is the trouble - it's localised and hasn't reached the gutter/door frames yet. Looks like I'm just in time. The windscreen would be on your right - ahead is the passenger side window.
(http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/5858/img0861fp7.jpg)
Yuk - right where the tray meets the roofskin. Blocked drainage no doubt but BMW's original protection here is non-existent and that don't help. The rest of the roof is perfect, which is why this is so annoying.
Passenger side rear.
(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7006/img0864lj8.jpg)
Drivers Side Rear
(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4218/img0863mn5.jpg)
Front drivers side
(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/507/img0865ev2.jpg)
One side note, those copper tubes from the motor/winder panel are just asking to be corroded.
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6067/img0867vj3.jpg)
Why BMW used UNTREATED copper tubing here I'll never know. I have a new drive panel with new tubes and hardware and they are again untreated from new. They'll need sealing/painting or coating in something.
So. I have a new roofskin ordered at the princely sum of £405 INC Vat ($800 or so)
Item 1:
(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NTIxNF9w.png)
There was another repair section that is no longer available which was a whole roof complete with A and C pillar and what looks like the scuttle area:
(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NTIxM19w.png)
Anyway, that second repair section is not available, despite calls to BMW Holland, Germany, France, Spain and Poland, to find 'old new stock' that doesn't always show up on their database.
Also had to get a new motor housing /drive panel at £45 or so and all new sound insulation, drainage hoses and seals at another £100 or so. Some of the original stuff was re-useable but had fine powdered surface corrosion on it and there's no way that was going back in a new roof.
Once it's all back together this very clean lining and power roof panel will go over it all, along with all new sound deadening.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/2664079196_bddc70bbf2_o.jpg)
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wow........i would have left it lol
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wow........i would have left it lol
After nine years i think id end up replacing it too....
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Some new parts arrived:
New draining tubes, sunroof panel seals and new fixing hardware:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2767004579_5413d3a372_o.jpg)
New motor drive panel (This is a motor drive specific one as I'm converting to power roof)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2767850444_e29f73f5bc_b.jpg)
Along with a mint sunroof drive motor, relay, switch and complete loom - all for £12!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/2767001685_a778e8d897_b.jpg)
So, took all that along to the bodyshop where the monster piece had arrived:
New original roofskin with sunroof tray bonded in:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/2767847398_c0cfef7d19_b.jpg)
Here you can see the sunroof tray - I now have a sunroof tray surplus to this as I didn't know it came with one already - I hope BMW will exchange it for something else.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2767846114_03957d46ff_b.jpg)
So, the next step is to remove the old roofskin and weld the new one in, brazed at the A & C pillar joins for a filler-free repair.
As mentioned before, BMW's original rust protection inside is pretty poor, as are most cars of this age. The bodyshop
had a 993 Turbo undergoing a full respray and rust repair stripped down and that also had a just a single coat of primer
on the inside of the shelll in cavity / roof areas.
This time they will etch-prime, then perhaps a another coat or two of zinc primer then 2 coats paint and then flood the
roof/cavity areas with waxoil. Hopefully it will never come back - have learnt my lesson and will blow out the drainage tubes
every couple of months which is what I should have done in the first place - Take notice people!
They will take photos as they go which I will post up in the next week or so.
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Great looking parts, good luck with work. Do post pics of the progress.
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Nice job, I am planing to replace the roof on my E30 so please do post pics of the progress.
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That is an AWESOME project... I don't know that many guys that would sink that kind of money into an E30, but yours is ceratinly a very NICE E30!!! Thanks for the pics too! Had you seen any evidence of leaking before you discovered the rot? Well Done
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Wow that is too cool. If there was one person who took this good of care of there cars for every five e30 owners, there might actually be a few nice ones around when I get out of college to tinker with.
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They are now well on the way to becoming classics so better do it now whilst parts are still available. I wouldn't have gone to this trouble for just any E30 tho as it is a lot expense and it's not a Sport or M3 etc. But I'm very attached to it.
It's back from the bodyshop now and the interior is at the trimmers so will post more pix immediately.
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Great project. I can understand you very well. I have owned my other hobby car, a 1988 Porsche 951 almost ten years now. Current E30 was purhased a year ago for 100€ :) When Porsche is finshed i plan to make some major improvements to my E30. Engine wil be changed to S14, just bought that engine with gearbox.
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Okay. So here is the new roof fitted and painted and motor drive panel temporarily bolted in.
On the inside you can see where it has been heavily seam sealed and coated everywhere with waxoil.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2878863512_3b71960a1d_b.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2878862700_7cf9bb7bb9_b.jpg)
And on the outside. This is where it's welded in at the A-Pillar
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/2878863870_fedb4c37cd_b.jpg)
And on top.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/2878030521_2bc8442fb0_b.jpg)
New motor drive panel fitted, was manual before. You can see the threaded drive tubes that the motor cog gear simply drives left or right. Really is a very easy conversion to do when you see it all exposed.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3225/2878862538_7ab80de08f_b.jpg)
This is the spot where the rust was breaking the surface as shown in previous pix. Nice new sunroof panel seals too.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2878030189_cfdb13e52d_b.jpg)
And whilst all the trim was out I gave the wheel arches and doors a good dose of waxoil - it's been 3 years or so.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2878864422_e9c6313311_b.jpg)
Next job is to bolt the sunroof motor in and run the wiring down the A-Pillar to the special equipment supply behind the glovebox.
Will also give me a chance to tidy up the loom route for the maplight mirror.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3073/2663924878_e86b1220ee_o.jpg)
Will relocate the Bluetooth hands free kit too, make it more hidden. At the moment it the controller is hidden in the ashtray
but the CPU bit is a mess of wires in the glovebox.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2665559578_77e107c5f8.jpg)
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cool, I was wondering about your bluetooth. Have you considered putting the mic behind the little knob on the hvac panel (bottom left corner)?
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The best place for it to pick up mine and a passengers voice (though it's a directional mic) is on the rear view mirror.
This is because it has far less vibration than when attached to the dash and also is more in line with where your voice throws I guess.
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Looks good.
You were smart and got the rust before it got to bad.
Must be nice to own a car like that for 9 years.
That car definetly worth saving. Horizontal stiched grey sport leather interior, mtech 2 wheel, 2 owner car
Does it have 15" wheels?
Hunter
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Wow!!!!!!!
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Looks good.
You were smart and got the rust before it got to bad.
Must be nice to own a car like that for 9 years.
That car definetly worth saving. Horizontal stiched grey sport leather interior, mtech 2 wheel, 2 owner car
Does it have 15" wheels?
Hunter
Yeah it has the 15's. But it doesn't have grey leather. It has heated Indigo Blue leather sports leather. Check my other thread in Interiors as it's getting a full renovation too:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5258
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Damn, that is badass. You get all kinds of respect for this project. (http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/embeer.gif)
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nice job!
Just curious - what is the "waxoil" you are referring to above (you've mentioned it a few times)? Can you elaborate more about this product, how to apply it and what it does? What color is it?
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Waxoil is the E30's best friend. It's a an oil that when cools forms a wax. You spray it in every cavity you can find and it neutralizes water / moisture so that even though the water may stay it cannot form rust.
Spray it EVERYWHERE you can see inside the car with the trim removed - common areas are:
Interior wheel arches - deep inside.
Inside the front speaker cavities.
Inside all holes in engine bay.
Wiper motor cavities.
Inside the front wings.
In the trunks area under the carpet.
Inside the doors.
Because it's an oily wax it won't affect any electro-mechanical bits.
It comes as a spray or tin of oil. Heat it up in warm water and pour/spray/pump it into places.
(http://www.stevestyres.com/images/waxoyl.jpg)
is available on online or most good auto shops.
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Waxoil is the E30's best friend. It's a an oil that when cools forms a wax. You spray it in every cavity you can find and it neutralizes water / moisture so that even though the water may stay it cannot form rust.
Spray it EVERYWHERE you can see inside the car with the trim removed - common areas are:
Interior wheel arches - deep inside.
Inside the front speaker cavities.
Inside all holes in engine bay.
Wiper motor cavities.
Inside the front wings.
In the trunks area under the carpet.
Inside the doors.
Because it's an oily wax it won't affect any electro-mechanical bits.
It comes as a spray or tin of oil. Heat it up in warm water and pour/spray/pump it into places.
(http://www.stevestyres.com/images/waxoyl.jpg)
is available on online or most good auto shops.
very interesting - I've never heard of such a product here in the States!
Thanks for the info!
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gay...the us distributor for waxol does not sell to individuals. It has to be applied by a "business"
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Buy that shizzle on eBay dude!
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True! So waxoyl dries to a waxlike state? Wondering because what if you need to work on the car and the underside is covered in oil? How difficult is it to remove?
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That's the point - it's all the properties of oil (which is the best rust prevention and lubrication) with none of the mess as it forms a wax coating and it does not interfere with electrical stuff as far as I know.
I wouldn't put underneath the car - you should use underseal or hammerite there.
It's for all the cavity / areas of metal you cannot see / reach. Then when it warms up in the summer or in your garage etc it 'drips' into the very narrowest of crevices and only then fully infiltrates all the areas it needs to be, which also happen to be the E30 trouble areas.
So once you've done it, let it sit for a few days somewhere warm if you can.
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Right!
Got some engine work going on - am doing a full timing case overhaul and some cam adjustment as I have the
2-3000rpm rattle which is super loud. I'm also replacing the ICV which very rarely causes stalling if it is stuck cold
or dirty - the valve won't open. I secured a refurbed one as new one's are quite pricey. Makes a big difference to smooth idle
apparently.
Here's my $700+ package of parts from BMW - all original of course. Basically, everything on this page:
(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NjM1X3A=.png)
And this gaskets / bolts from here (using original timing case, no need to renew that)
(http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/MzAxNTlfcA==.png)
Assorted gaskets and seals.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3439/3179772336_ed686dd239.jpg?v=0)
Chains, nylon guides sprockets etc...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/3179770864_daf37d78b8.jpg?v=0)
Various bolts, tiny bits tensioners etc...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/3178934747_28e8054ed7.jpg?v=0)
Also important to change the water pump and thermostat whilst you're there.
BMW water pump is over 3 times the price of OEM or copy but I don't think you can skimp on such an important part.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3531/3178934799_897e6d31ee.jpg?v=0)
This is booked in and will be done in a weeks time or so. Then I will throw my new interior in along with some modest ICE,
a new headlining and then this thing will be finally finished and I can get driving - my current drive is an E46 but it bores me to tears.
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I will say - when doing the timing cover gaskets, use a small amount of sealant on them, otherwise you may experience oil seepage or leaks through the new gaskets.
My M42 was rebuilt using all brand new gaskets and we have to tear down the front timing cover assembly, because the new gaskets have been leaking oil since the engine was reinstalled & running... I don't know if the issue is poor gasket quality OR if there was to be sealant used during reassembly (no manuals had stated to use sealant on those gaskets and when the engine was initially taken apart for the rebuild, no sealant was there on the original gaskets or areas)... All of the front timing cover bolts were and are all torqued to factory spec per the Bentley and any online manuals... Like I said, we are going to be tearing down my whole front timing assembly to install new gaskets AND will be using sealant this time around... To do it twice is a PIA and I don't intend on doing it a third time.
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My garage is doing it and they have been doing them for 11 years so I know they'll do a good job - I would love to have a go but living in Central London I neither have the space, time or special cam timing tools.
You probably know all this guy but for others, this is a good resource for this job:
http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/318ismaintenance.html#timingchain
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I will say - when doing the timing cover gaskets, use a small amount of sealant on them, otherwise you may experience oil seepage or leaks through the new gaskets.
My M42 was rebuilt using all brand new gaskets and we have to tear down the front timing cover assembly, because the new gaskets have been leaking oil since the engine was reinstalled & running... I don't know if the issue is poor gasket quality OR if there was to be sealant used during reassembly (no manuals had stated to use sealant on those gaskets and when the engine was initially taken apart for the rebuild, no sealant was there on the original gaskets or areas)... All of the front timing cover bolts were and are all torqued to factory spec per the Bentley and any online manuals... Like I said, we are going to be tearing down my whole front timing assembly to install new gaskets AND will be using sealant this time around... To do it twice is a PIA and I don't intend on doing it a third time.
Sure you don't have facing issues between head / block / timing case etc?
As I wasn't aware of sealant to be used either, leaks usualy mean cracks or
warped surfaces from overheating engines.
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This is done and I'll post pics of the interior going back in as well as some newly painted bits.
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glad your taking care of it
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Follow the rest of the restoration here - lot of progress since:
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=143472&highlight=
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The door got slammed in my face when I tried to follow the link.
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You need to create account on the website. It is free.
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Lots o cool stuff been done so sign up it's worth it as that website is huuuuuuuuuuuuuge and seriously useful.