M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: pifane on July 06, 2008, 10:43:14 PM
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:eek:
There's a moment in our life where you dont know if you will survive or not. This is what happen here. At 20:06 GMT -5. I was running under this beautifull july sun..
Everything was okay. I was cruising a little road and was having fun, slowly, 60MPH, everything ok, no weird sound from the engine. Oil was okay, water was okay. No leak, no gasket problems.....Engine temp ok...
Suddenly, down shifting at 4500 RPM the 5th gear, i heard a little "cling" sound from the front of the car, loosing power and torque and "check engine light" appears.
I stop the car on the side of the road, parking brake on. Open the hood to see what's wrong. It's doen't sounds good.....Engine make a a sound like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU2OBsRMS8g
Try to give more gaz, the engine stop....Trying to restart. Ignition and....No fire........Engine try to start but have no fire.......it souds terrible.....
Do you have an idea someone? Ive read about Crankshaft position sensor acting like a protection, but I have absolutely no advanced knowledge with engine, only a good brain and a good mecanical ready for me, but this one is come back only next week-end from working far away........
So, is my bimmer's dead?
:( :eek:
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Sounds like the timing chain tensioner went bad. Get a new one, only oem.
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Really? It have been changed on february with a new one when fixing profile gasket... http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4810
Ive replaced it with a new one and a new one timing chain....I mean, not "me" but me with my mecanical.....
But how I can be sure it's okay?
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It have start to do that, but a little bit more violent and....but now it wont start..... http://youtube.com/watch?v=SWIny3cKHrg&feature=related
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OK, this will most likely be a Fuel Injection/Engine Management problem because you said the engine light came on. See if you can get the code/s to appear using the engine light and accelerator pedal trick or if you have fault scanning tool, you can check it that way.
Are you getting fuel? Check the fuel pump relay. Then if that is ok, check your spark plugs, maybe you've fouled the plugs. Then if plugs are ok, check the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor. Do these things and then post back.
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But like kenika65 said also check out your timing system. Maybe something is not right there as well.
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Your engine sounds bad. Timing chain and also I faintly here some knocking around in there somewhere.
Mechanic Kitty disagrees though:
(http://www.knitemare.org/cats/mechanic.jpg)
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Pull the valve cover and have a look at the timing gear, rails and cam gears. Check to see if the 2 cams are still in alignment to each other. Pull spark plugs and check for unusual oil/fuel deposits on one or more of the cyls.
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Okay, a little reply to told you that the video from youtube are not mine!! It's just an exemple to describe the sound make my car...And the difference here is easy to make because my car wont start......
But, I will take a short video to show you what happening tomorrow, Thanks for your interest! I want to drive my E30 again :(, i didnt like my brother's e36.....
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When you say it will not start - when you turn the key, does the engine at least turn over like it's going to start, or will it not rotate at all?
Turn the key to the "on" position and then pump the gas pedal 5 times consecutively... after the fifth pump of the gas pedal, your checl engine light should start to blink - once it starts blinking, make a note of the blinks - because those blinks will reference an error code.
If you heard a distinct noise prior to the engine light coming on, my guess will be the timing tensioner gave out, or the chain possibly jumped. Was the timing chain or any of the timing components replaced when you had the profile gasket serviced? If not, how many miles are on the parts?
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This is what happening, I take this video last hour : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0nB1Vttr3s
When the car had stop, ive loose all power in one shot and had noticed a litle "cling" sound from the engine..
I had open the hood and the engine was acting like have a rock in it. I push the gaz a little bit and the engine turn off..now I cant restart it!
Tensionner have 10 000 KM (6200 miles) and chain have 35 000 (21000miles)
Car have 340 000 (220 000 miles) and a lot of parts have been changed,water pump is new, profile gasket problem have been fixed on february, oil change is made every (3000 miles)...But, Lask week I have push the car at 6500 rpm, its was the first time. I think it dont like this.....
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I'd rule out the big problems first, do a compression test on all cylinders. If that comes back ok, it's either spark or fuel prob. Good luck!
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+1 on the compression test, something sounds wrong internally. Like hard parts, not management.
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Yeah i agree, not sure about my earlier view on the engine management issue, that crank seemed very weak, almost like the crank turning but not the cams (hence no compression). Pull off the valve cover and timing covers and check out what happened.
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After watching your video I would suggest that it could be the fuel pump. It sounds like it is not getting any fuel.
Get someone to try and start the car while you hit the underside of the fuel tank hard at the same time (try this for about 30 seconds). Often if the fuel pump is faulty this will get it going temporarily. If the car starts then you need to replace the fuel pump.
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Going off what john318isau said, also check the fuel pump relay. (common)
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Ignition coil make fire......Compression test result = no compression
Chain is okay, tensionner is okay......
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Shit, so you tested for compression and you got nothing. This is a strange one. What were your compression test results for each cylinder? Did you check for fuel as well? Have your checked spark plugs for any fouling?
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No compression on all cylinder...My mecanical said its impossible, so I got a timing problems.....or something else...
Sparks plug are ok.....
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I can tell you what happened. You ignored the original noise which was the old original stamped steel chain guide breaking apart.
Step one, guide breaks apart. Owner ignores noise, big chunk get caught between chain and gear, timing chain slips over teeth. See the teeth marks in the big square piece.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/peerless/Ernest%20M42/DSCN0286.jpg)
Step two, with the chain now slipped and timing way off you now bend every single intake, or exhaust valve resulting in no compression.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/peerless/Ernest%20M42/DSCN0292.jpg)
Your engine now requires a full rebuild, anything less and your just cheating yourself. I can help with advise and technical support when your ready to rebuild it.
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So, im now thinking of I dont want to put another big lot of money on that. The engine have 340 000 km. Instead, I want to buy another less mileage engine. If it's cost me 1500-2000$, I will prefere that. And the car will be more reliable.
So, did im obligated to put another m42b18 engine or I can put a m44? What's the difference? It's because im not able to find another low mileage m42......or I can check at metricmecanic, but fully rebuilt engine cost 7000$..........
Do you have place where I can check for m42 or m44? Im living in quebec, canada, i can't import engine from germany :P
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car-part.com
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Thanks for car-part, I will check. Anybody have an idea about fitting an m44 instead of an m42
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Did you end up removing the timing covers and inspecting the destruction?
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The fact is that the engine have 340 000 km and I just dont want to open it! It's because I dont have time to do this,Im a business owner and im working everyday,and If I pay someone to do this, he will told me that my engine is to rebuilt or something, and that will cost me 200$ just to know that....and I already know its an old engine at end of life....BUT! Im looking for a low mileage M42, and if I find one (I have no choice to find one, I want to keep my old school E30), at this moment I will open the old one to see what happening.
So, for the moment, Im driving a E36 with climate control still working, and I really enjoy it on july :P
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Hi all!
I think I have find one. That have been very hard. I find one with 192 000 K (120 000) for 1000$ + 300$ shipping.
1300$. Now im just asking if its better to me, once the new old one arrived, to replace : chain guide, timing chain, tensionner and water pump ?
I think its what I have to do to have a reliable engine....no? What other thing I must change before swap on the other one?
(I want to have somekind of peace....)
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I would give the engine a major service - meaning replace air, fuel & oil filters. Replace oil and spark plugs as well.
I would replace the following
- valve cover gasket and spark plug seals
- timing chain
- cam sprockets
- crank sprocket
- idler sprocket
- all 4 guides
- tensioner piston
- front crank seal
- thermostat
- water pump
- all 3 drive belts if worn
- relevant gaskets and gasket sealer (use sealer on timing covers not paper gaskets - they're crap)
The parts above is what I replaced when I did my timing chain.
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Okay. After calculating what I have to replace, Im not sure anymore....
New old engine with 192 000 KM:
-If the engine have not running since 3 years, that will be pain.....
-1300$ right to my door and 500$ parts (maybe more) and 5-600$ labour...
-Job will be do by a good mecanical but.....im not sure he know everything about bmw....
My old engine:
Engine Block is still good, new water pump, new thermostat...
Finally, im not sure about what to do here...lol....Tomorrow im going to a specialised imported car shop and the owner look to be very nice with bmw (He repair and rebuilt bmw, mercedes, porsche, maserrati car since 25 years)
He said to my brother of a well rebuilt bmw engine can be still good to another 350 000 KM with no trouble.....and he can make a warranty on that!
I will keep you informed my friends!
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the second mechanic is right. if the engine is rebuilt right, its as good as a new engine.
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I very hate the fact I don't own a garage....I have to pay the big price to rebuilt my engine. It will cost me 2500-3000$. 50% of the price is for labbour.
If everything alright, I will have my car in 3 week....."I miss you getrag 265 :("
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Im following up the thread to help people in the future with this kind of problem......
Engine have been open today!!! :D
peerless : You got 50% of the problems.
The timing chain guide was still okay.....But one the bolt who the retaining it have been not tightened correctly...so the screw have make a bad timing by get caught between chain and gear, timing chain slips over teeth and result in a total mass destruction........BUT!!!
Intake valve are over. Exhaust valve are still great but will be changed (Im not taking any chance with a little degree..;)...)
My bmw specialist told me : " This is another exemple of how tough bmw engine are!!! You broke the intake valve and piston are still in good condition..."
I will post again tomorrow or next week to keep you informed!
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Damn thats good the entire engine didnt blow up on you! My engine recently had its timing chain and valves done.. lucky me! Best of luck to your pocket book :rolleyes:
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Im just coming back from the bmw shop. Head is out. Also, I will try to take picture tomorrow morning to show you what happenning! My baby look like a injured solider on the battlefield....I think she will be ready next week!
I'll keep you informed...
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23:27 GMT -5 here!
As I said, Im keeping you informed. Im going to the bmw shop tomorrow morning.
My pocket told me this aftertoon : " WTF? You will empty me for this fuc****g stupid car? Are you crazy? You put another 2300$ on this old 1991 shit? Are you okay? In one years, you put 2500$ for the car, and 5000$ in repair and maintenance, you can have a brand new hyundai accent for this price"
I said to my pocket : " Yeah but......What's about the "ultimate driving machine"? With a hyundai, I will not have the feeling that im driving a tank! I will not feel the smooth bilstein suspension! I will not be able to drift all the winter simply by pushing the gaz to the floor, I will not be able to take turn at 80 MPH where the other car are not able to.....and other hyundai driver will not comment my car in a parking lot at the shopping mal, only BMW driver do that"
And my pocket finaly said : " And wtf are you doing right now, ur are talking to your pocket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did im crazy? No, I like my german Tiger tank! :D
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There's some sig material in that post ;)
Way to save the car, I dont know if I would do the same.
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:p
The infernal machine is back! I have to run at max 3000 rpm for the next 500-1000 KM.
This is the first time I have this great feeling when running with it! The engine is running very smooth and make a little funny sound!
I think I have more power than before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kos6p81WnVY
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Well there you go, its good to see the car is running again. Long live your bimmer!
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Did you get any pictures of the internal destruction?
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Noo, im really sorry! When I go to the bmw shop Ive forgot my camera...But, the 8 intake valve were completely bend. But, the two one who caused the engine stop were really bad to see! lolll.....
I think my reaction have been good. Engine were not totaly destroy.
Now, my engine is running really smooth and have a little funny sound like a turbo, I dont know how to describe this.
But now, other bmw problems get on my nerve : STUPID TOMATO JUICE CAN SOUND UNDER THE CAR AT 1500-1800 RPM......
I will try to fixe this soon!
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There have been a few people on M42club that I know, including peerless and me that have had that same whine noise after replacing the entire timing chain system or after an engine rebuild. I heard it on your video link above. I've ordered a new chain tensioner piston which arrives already compressed so hopefully that will fix it. If it does I'll let you know.
Not sure about the can noise though?
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I will take a short video to let you see what kind of noise is just happenning.
Also, I will take a family picture of the bended intake valve...its beautifull!
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Here the picture I promised to you. Finaly, the thing hapen is the same of peerless.My brother missunderstood....!
LOOK AT THE FIRST ONE..LOL:
(http://e-nergia.ca/temp/1.JPG)
A family picture :
(http://e-nergia.ca/temp/2.JPG)
OMG! The worst one have been found in the oil pan
(http://e-nergia.ca/temp/3.JPG)
Look here, there a little "S"...its terrible lol! Can you believe my engine piston are okay?
(http://e-nergia.ca/temp/4.JPG)
1991 and 2005...just for the eyes...!
(http://e-nergia.ca/temp/5.JPG)