M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Suspension => Topic started by: nomad on June 23, 2008, 12:30:03 PM
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I'm trying to make this car handle a little better for autocross use (occasional daily) and to make it more fun. I'd like to hear some suggestions on the direction I'm going. Small budget of course.
I have Billy sport front shock inserts and offset front CABs ready to go, and should be picking up some used vogtland springs soon. I plan on finding a front cabby sway and a rear M3 sway. I currently have stock basketweaves but plan on finding some 15x7 to use with 205/50/15 Azenis that I have in the garage.
This seems like an ok starting point as I can't seem to afford IE3 or H&R Race springs for a good price. I was wondering about cosmo coilovers but decided I'd like to be able to go back to stock if needed.
I'm also thinking of getting new balljoints pressed in locally and getting new upper shock mounts and rear trailing arm mounts. I'm sure I need new rear shocks so I was thinking of getting KYB till I find some billy sports.
Any suggestions? recommendations? Oil pan warnings?
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Should I get the eccentric rear trailing arm bushings for a few $ more? Or is that a waste for what I'm doing?
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what ever bushings you are getting get them from akg. and eccentric would be very nice. Vogtland springs aver very low and i hear pretty soft. You might want to wait for some ie stage 3s. I have a set of vogtlands new in box if you need them.
glad to see you decided to keep your car
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I went the standard Billy/HR sport/ ST Sway route and am very happy. I refreshed with all new bushings and in hindsight should have used the eccentric RTA bushings. It was a bigger job than I expectied but this was due to doing the subframe bushings. Springs and shocks were easy. The sways pretty easy as the subframe was out.
The change in ride quality is excellent although I was coming from a stock 318i suspension.
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Just picked up some Bilein rear shocks from the JY today. Woohoo!
I think they are the HD ones but should work fine for a little while at least.
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I would go with IE3's or H&R Race. The Vogtlands are (F)225---(R)360 Stock is around (F)118---(R)265, where as IE3's are (F)315---(R)570 and they are about the same drop rate. If you do go with Vogtlands just be more careful with potholes and anything that can make you car "Dip" down. Overall that looks like a pretty good setup, although I've never been in anything other than stock. I'm sure you'll be happy with it if you go that route.
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I may install it all with all the spring pads in place and then judge where I want to go from there. I'd love to be able to test out a bunch of different options before settling, but we'll see how it goes.
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I may install it all with all the spring pads in place and then judge where I want to go from there. I'd love to be able to test out a bunch of different options before settling, but we'll see how it goes.
I would seriously recommend Ireland Stage 3's. Their an awesome spring and aren't a progressive spring like the H&R Race's which means that their firm from the start and don't have the softness to begin with. Better for Autox applications. I would save up and go GC coilovers and avoid cosmo. I thought about it also but saw that their rates are soft but talked w/ someone who had them and they said they were really firm, therefore I don't trust their numbers and don't think that the springs are any quality. Good call on testing first w/ all spring pads in. Set a benchmark altho it won't have a difference really on anything except aesthetics to have the pads in or not.
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yeah, for spring pads i was referring to the "danger zone" of the oil pan. If I ever see a deal for IE3 I'll try to jump on it, right now they are too expensive for my little budget.
Once I sell the wheels from my other car maybe I'll have some $
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I ended up getting the eccentric RTABs
So should I be able to install and align these myself or should a regular alignment shop do it better? I'm willing to give it a shot and want to set my front toe myself.
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Alignment cost me $100 - not much to be sure of what you have but too much given the minimal adjustments they can make.
You need to realize that we are talking amount very fine measurements having a pretty big impact, so for $100 or less its worth it in my opinion.
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Definitely get a professional alignment, and be sure to tell them what mods you've done. If you can find a BMW shop or a track-setup shop, that would be the way to go.
BTW IE3 and H&R races are exactly the same, but the IE3's tend to have a bit of positive rake. From a performace standpoint this is fine, but it looks funney to have the front of the car slightly higher than the rear. Races are a bit lower at the front.
What class do you autocross in? If you're in STS (that's what I'm in, so this is all STS-legal) I'd save some money up and get some GC coilovers. You can get the adusters and custom rate springs for $400 and get them welded on the front struts. The rears require no welding. This means you get adjustable spring rates (a pair of springs is around $50, they are availiable all over the place) for track or street, as well as adjustable ride height. Races, IE3s, and Vogtlands are all very low, and Vogtlands are too soft for their ride height. For some reason, the GC kit seems to ride smoother, is significantly more predictable, and almost negates the need for swaybars. The progressive rate springs are only as stiff as their rate in the last inch of travel, so they are still very soft for autocross use.
I'm also on a very tight budget, and this is the most cost-effective way to get a good, adjustable suspension that I have seen. Of course, this is all my personal preference :)
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dont install the bushings till you do all your other suspension work, that way you can get it all aligned at the same time
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I think I may swap out the shocks now (so it rides better) and save for some adjustable height coilover parts.
I "know" that I need to do everything right the first time (learned this years ago) but I'm so tempted to cheap out just to get "anything". The adjustable height stiffer GC setup is where I truly want to be. It's always more cost effective to do it once!
I'm going to research some of the circle track swap meets for adjustable collars and hardware. I may be able to put together an adjustable setup for much cheaper than $400.
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Well, cosmo coilovers are only $200, but I really can't say too much about the quality. IE also has adjusters for 130 front and 120 rear iirc, but I don't know about the quality there, either.
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I should have a cabby front sway getting here soon. I should probably go ahead and get a ball joint set so I can get them pressed in so I do all the work once. I hear some leave the rear bar off or soft for autocross. May not be a good setup for the street but i think I still want the M3 rear bar.
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OK, I'm getting really close to a complete suspension redo.
I've got Billy sports for front and rear, Vogtland springs, to compensate for the softer springs I'm going with Cabby front sway and M3 rear sway sitting here, I also have offset CABs, eccentric RTABs, JT heavy duty RSM with reinforcing plate, and I should have all new balljoints to press in shortly.
Can't wait to get this thing on the road again. I've just done new waterpump and clutch fan delete with volvo rad fan, volvo spark plug wires. Tomorrow I may install the volvo front lip and Sable sideskirts.
I really want an Mtech rear wing now.
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I love it when a plan comes together!
1/2 way done. Billy sports (w/heavy duty upper mounts), M3 rear bar, Vogtland springs.
I'll work on the front today.
(http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=13437&stc=1&d=1218897243)
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90% done today.
Installed the front billy and springs, and the cabby sway after painting it a bright red color for kicks and to make it less chipped and rusty looking (Should have done that on the rear bar).
The only thing I have left to do is the front CABs. I didn't want to cut them off and be stuck with no car Monday. I could not get them off and they are toasted. I may attack them with a sawzall but i'm afraid of gouging the CA mount surface. I have offset CABs to go in.
Any suggestions on how to get the CABs off?
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OK, so I jacked up the CA end getting the bushing off.
Stupid me. It's probably for the best as i was trying to cheap out and just reuse the old CA/balljoints etc. I'm now getting a pair of new CA and powerflex offset bushings.
This is what I had planned on before but was trying to save my money.
Now the car is laid up again. Next week should be a good week.
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iv gone with the fill Bilstien B12 kit which is awesome to say the least... influences so much grip!
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6687
then im going to add powerflex to everything