M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: futron.sim on June 04, 2008, 09:22:41 PM
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Assuming the M42 is rebuilt with forged internals (eg. MM parts), 88mm diesel crank and steel head gasket etc, can it withstand 2bar (~28PSI) of boost for short periods? Will the block itself be able hold the pressure or will the cylinders give way?
This is because i estimate that I will need at least 2 bars of boost in order to outrun 135i on straights. I am hoping to build a M42 that could put those sixes to shame.
Couple of my friends have dumped their M42 infavor of a M50/S50 but I have no intention of doing that. Just wanted to prove that the M42 is just as capable, if not better than the inline 6s.
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thats exactly what ill be doing at the end of the year
im all ready running 20~22Psi boost
with just forged pistons and cometic steal headgasket the res is bone stock (fully rebuilt/balanced)
i cant see why the motor wont take it
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Someone on Youtube was running 1.5bar on stock internals with ground down pistons. He was putting 333rwhp! I'm pretty sure that that would put you pretty close to 135i territory, but why do you want to beat a 135i?
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bahhhhhh
NA>boost
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sorry. my post is off topic…
people say NA is bettAR than boost because when someone typically builds an engine with a turbo in mind, they make the CR around 8.5 or lower. This results in little or no low-end grunt. that and just so they can brag on the forums that they can drink beer out of their pistons. :P (I've seen it more than twice.)
you can build a great engine that has 11.5 CR with a turbo and still produce great power. you just have to have someone that knows a lot about engine mechanics and thermal efficiency to help you accomplish the task. people have done this in the past. it's not an impossible task, and if you do it right, you won't destroy your engine.
You still get the low-end grunt that makes driving a car in the canyons and through traffic fun without having to be near redline.
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Someone on Youtube was running 1.5bar on stock internals with ground down pistons. He was putting 333rwhp! I'm pretty sure that that would put you pretty close to 135i territory, but why do you want to beat a 135i?
I am using the 135i as a benchmark because I saw videos that the 135i is as fast as the new M3 on 1/4 mile test. Thus, if I can make my car as fast as the 135i, I will be as fast as the M3.
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We had a problem with the plumbing on our downpipe and were seeing 27psi. We ran this way for a race day through practice, qualifying, and a race distance without blowing a headgasket or any other problems. The conditions were right for blowing it up too... we were running the injectors at 110% duty cycle at one point so yes, the motor will take it. Once you get detonation however, you will start going through head gaskets.
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Hope that this thread will help to see more M42 turbo engines in the forum! :)
If only I had time to fit all that I have in my M44... :(
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We had a problem with the plumbing on our downpipe and were seeing 27psi. We ran this way for a race day through practice, qualifying, and a race distance without blowing a headgasket or any other problems. The conditions were right for blowing it up too... we were running the injectors at 110% duty cycle at one point so yes, the motor will take it. Once you get detonation however, you will start going through head gaskets.
Thanks for the info! I am glad to know the motor is able to handle the boost w/o blowing the motor. I think detonation should not be a problem for me because I will be only pumping Shell Ron98 or V-power (supposedly Ron100) gas.
Btw, may I know what are the internals you are using for the motor?
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sorry. my post is off topic…
people say NA is bettAR than boost because when someone typically builds an engine with a turbo in mind, they make the CR around 8.5 or lower. This results in little or no low-end grunt. that and just so they can brag on the forums that they can drink beer out of their pistons. :P (I've seen it more than twice.)
you can build a great engine that has 11.5 CR with a turbo and still produce great power. you just have to have someone that knows a lot about engine mechanics and thermal efficiency to help you accomplish the task. people have done this in the past. it's not an impossible task, and if you do it right, you won't destroy your engine.
You still get the low-end grunt that makes driving a car in the canyons and through traffic fun without having to be near redline.
Actually, I did thought about it. My originally idea was to install a Euro S50B32 motor. However, after much consideration, I decide to keep my M42 motor and turbo charge it instead.
to overcome the poor low-end grunt, I am thinking of dual charging it. Using an Eaton blower to compensate for the low end.
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That's a good news ,but how many psi a stock head gasket with after market bolts of course can handle??
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That's a good news ,but how many psi a stock head gasket with after market bolts of course can handle??
I am not sure but I think 7-8psi should be ok for stock gasket since the DASC kit is already running around that boost.
However, I think its best to go for a steel gasket like cometic ones.
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It must hold much more than that if you have a proper tuning and after market head blots.I'm planing to go 10psi veeeeeery soon,like next week.
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If you do all the modifications you listed above, the m42 should have no problem with 2 bar. There was a guy who turbocharged his m10 with stock internals and ran about 30 psi for I think 2 years before it finally blew. I am not sure if I have all the details correct but I think he was making around 330rwhp with hardly any other mods besides the turbo.
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If you do all the modifications you listed above, the m42 should have no problem with 2 bar. There was a guy who turbocharged his m10 with stock internals and ran about 30 psi for I think 2 years before it finally blew. I am not sure if I have all the details correct but I think he was making around 330rwhp with hardly any other mods besides the turbo.
Wow! 30PSI on stock internals!
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It must hold much more than that if you have a proper tuning and after market head blots.I'm planing to go 10psi veeeeeery soon,like next week.
Thats nice! Do tell us your results.
Btw, are you using standalone ECU or a piggyback. This is because I am trying to save some cash by using a piggyback like unichip instead of a standalone ecu.
Thanks!
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I'm using the original bolts and headgasket with 1 bar boost (14.5 psi) and no problems so far. And that guy on youtube is also still using the original headgasket with 1.5 bar, dunno about bolts though. Like someone said, it isn't a problem if your tuning is good, detonations however will kill it fast.
I bet it can handle about 400 engine hp with ARP bolts before cylinder pressures becomes too high.
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to overcome the poor low-end grunt, I am thinking of dual charging it. Using an Eaton blower to compensate for the low end.
I have been trying to plan this one out for a little while now (like a week).
I was trying to figure out how one could make the turbo take over where the supercharger stops, with out much over lap...
Plus there's plumbing, engine management, and where to put it all....
But still I've been thinking about it.
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Whay don't you use two turbos,one small and one big,if you whant to go that BIG
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i'm using emanage blue for fuel and spark with boost pressure sensor
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Whay don't you use two turbos,one small and one big,if you whant to go that BIG
I did thought about having twin turbos but my car is RHD so there isn't much space on the exhaust side. How I wish I could saw that @#$% steering column off lol.......
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I have been trying to plan this one out for a little while now (like a week).
I was trying to figure out how one could make the turbo take over where the supercharger stops, with out much over lap...
Plus there's plumbing, engine management, and where to put it all....
But still I've been thinking about it.
I have also been planning for quite a while and trying to solve the issue of over lap. After some consulation etc, I think the best solution is to use a throttlebody. The intake will split into 2, 1 going to the blower and the other directly to the intake manifold (the TB will sit on this pipe).
The ECU will monitor the pressure in the pipe. once is has reach certain pressure. The TB will go WOT so air will bypass the blower.
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i have been talking with a man in greece , who has a m42 engine installed in a E36 and uses it for Dragster , he is working with 2,2 bar pressure with only pistons - crank changed , arp head studs and produses 520 hp....he told me that M42 is very good engine for turbo applications and can handle much pressure and much abuse....
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Wow! 30PSI on stock internals!
Yes, it was actually 27 psi and 359rwhp.
Here is the video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=PRvJQIMnPuM
And his dyno sheet and some build info: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=567849
He is now building a turbo m30.
With your modifications 2 bar will be no problem. Who knows how high you will be able to go. 22 years ago bmw got up to 5.5 bar!
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That's a good news ,but how many psi a stock head gasket with after market bolts of course can handle??
At least 14-15psi which is what we were running at the track last weekend.
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sorry. my post is off topic…
people say NA is bettAR than boost because when someone typically builds an engine with a turbo in mind, they make the CR around 8.5 or lower. This results in little or no low-end grunt. that and just so they can brag on the forums that they can drink beer out of their pistons. :P (I've seen it more than twice.)
you can build a great engine that has 11.5 CR with a turbo and still produce great power. you just have to have someone that knows a lot about engine mechanics and thermal efficiency to help you accomplish the task. people have done this in the past. it's not an impossible task, and if you do it right, you won't destroy your engine.
You still get the low-end grunt that makes driving a car in the canyons and through traffic fun without having to be near redline.
I have been thinking about what you mentioned and I think I may decide to go for a high compression engine and install a blower running at lower boost (say around 0.5-1 bar). This way, I can still get reasonable power and fuel consumption won't go too high.
Fuel prices have been going up like nobody business in my country. Now 1L of Shell V-power (that ~0.22 gallon) cost USD1.65. That means 1 gallon cost USD7.50
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Now 1L of Shell V-power (that ~0.22 gallon) cost USD1.65. That means 1 gallon cost USD7.50
Thats pretty cheap :) here - 0.22 gallon = $2.18 thats more then 10$ a gallon :mad: