M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine management => Topic started by: ClodKing on May 23, 2008, 07:24:38 PM
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So my car idled badly before, and decided to do the coolant/vacuum line cleanup dealy. I got it all back together again today, and the idle imporved, but now I can barely get the engine to rev past 3000 rpm...
And it still wants to die if you rev it up and take your foot off the gas.
And I don't know if it made a ticking sound before but it does now....
What the hell???
Any help would be great.
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As for ticking, make sure all your spark plugs are tight.
Dunno for sure on the other issue. I'd check fuel pressure though -- should be 3 bar.
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how would i go about doing that?
I'll check the spark plugs.
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Which way is the arrow supposed to point on that valve thing?? Towards the upper intake, or towards the rubber bellows portion of the air intake?
Also the engine shudders at 1200-1000 rpm when the throttle drop.
Any help would great. I would really like to have this car drivable by my birthday...
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Could be an Intake manifold leak. Are the bolts tight? Did you replace the gasket?
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I replaced both gaskets, but two nuts dropped between the cracks in my porch... So I have to find some place that has M7 nuts, and washers.
Could that be what my problem is??
All nuts are tight otherwise.
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Yep, if you want your car to idle, then you need to eliminate vacuum leaks by reproducing the stock set-up. That means replacing the shit that fell under your porch...
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Hahaha, yeah I know. I have been to a few places, and they only carry even number metric nuts (ie: 4,6,8,10,12,14). No M7's though. It really burns me up....
So I gotta contact a fasteners company. I know Fastenall a few towns over, but I don't have a car, and they close at 5, so I gotta co-ordinate it with a day off, or some other way...
Either way, it'll get done, I just gotta find a way to get the nuts home.
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Hell, I got a Fastenall down the street from my house. If they have em I'll priority mail them to ya. Probably have by Monday.
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I'll see what I can get together. I think I can arrange something for a pick up on monday...
But yeah If I cannot get the nuts picked up, it would be really cool if you could do that for me. I'll let you know on monday. Thanks vonkamp.
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So I got some 7mm nuts, and washers from a mechanic that works on my step dads mercedes.
I'll post up the results after I put them on tomorrow night (when I get back home).
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Okay so the two nuts, and washers were just installed, and it didn't change the idle at all....
So I did pumping of the pedal, and got a 1222. I tried to find a reliable source for the diagnostic codes, and found one saying that it meant "oxygen sensor regulation". Is that correct?
And if so what could be done to correct that problem.
Oh, and does the car put itself into "limp mode" if it has no brakes. I am in the process of replacing all brake lines, and the back end has no lines, or calipers, or pads... But that never came through as a fault code...
I don't even think these cars have a "limp mode"....
I hope some of the M42 maniacs can give me a hand, because am literally at your mercy:(:D
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these links may help you out:
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5385
http://ee1394.com/bmw/docs/bmwDTCodes.pdf
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If I were you, I would finish your brake job before tackling the idle. Sounds like you are trying to run the car on jackstands which is not very safe.
You have the same code I had and what fixed mine was sealing all the vacuum leaks... I would bet that will fix your problem. Keep us posted
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The car is on it's tires. I can't leave it on jack stands because my driveway is gravel, uneven, and sloped. I can only jack it up in the lot behind my house, but cannot leave it there because it public property.
I geuss I should do the brake lines before I tackle the motor... But I have to drive the car to the back lot (it's a 3 second drive), and would like to get it running reliably for that particular task.
What part is the ICV? I think it's the part nearest the firewall that I had to splice a vacuum line for, but I am not 100% sure...
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the ICV is the Idle control Valve , and most Idle issues come from it...Take it out and clean it with Carb cleaner ( or brake cleaner )
Also check the AFM ( temp sesor - and other parts )
edit : yes it is the part that connects the main hose ( from the afm - intake ) to the plennum intake though this silver round part..
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yep. check the ICV.. sometimes i have the same thing... i think i have to get a new ICV.. :(
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I got a little confused because my service manual calls it an IAC. I wanted verify before I went spraying solvents into that part, ya know??
Another question for you guys. Did you use heater hose as a vacuum hose for that run (intake to ICV to rubber boot)?? Or did you have problems, and needing to get real vacumm hose.
Maybe I should just run some 5/8 steel or aluminum tubing along the longer sections...
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I picked up a 2' length of 5/8 steel tubing. The small wall thickness they had was .049.... I know it's really thick for this application, but I want to see whether it will improve anything.
I'll post pictures, and results when I get the chance to bend, and install the tubing.
EDIT: And the tubing has GERMANY stamped on the side... so I geuss it was meant to be, hahaha
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I use high pressure oil hose ( 200 bar ) for any case of problems...
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Well I bent up the steel tubing, and shot brake cleaner through the ICV, and nothing changed.
So I started pulling spark plug wire while the engine was running.
#4-pulled wire, engine laboured then recovered, but idled badly.
#3-pulled wire, engine laboured then recovered, but idled badly.
#2-no noticeable difference in idle quality.
#1-pulled wire, engine laboured then recovered, but idled badly.
I heard sparking whenever I pulled a spark wire. And I saw sparking when I pulled the boot from the coil for #2.
I pulled the #2 spark plug from the head, and saw it was covered in fuel (it smelled like fuel atleast) and soot. Not a huge coating of soot either. It was covered in a film of fuel that was darker colored.
I did a compression test on the #2 cylinder, and it scored a 170-175. I didn't think that score was too bad considering the car has 266,000 kms... BUt maybe I'm wrong.
I am thinking maybe the #2 fuel injector is bad, or fouled (but I cleaned out the upper and lower intake when doing the vacuum/coolant mod).
Any ideas??
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I am thinking maybe the #2 fuel injector is bad, or fouled
That would concur with the engine code 1222. I would change it.
From the Motronic pedal fault code:
1222 Lambda Control 1 This code is stored when the DME detects excessive
deviations in the air-fuel mixture (too rich or too lean) for longer
than 10 seconds. Possible causes: Fuel tank ran empty,
Incorrect Fuel Pressure, Injector valve defective or coked,
Engine Temperature Sensor defective, Secondary air leak,
Fuel evaporation control system defective, Air Flow Meter
defective and/or the combustion is being disturbed by
mechanical failure (Spark plugs,, compression,
intake/exhaust valves, ...etc.)
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Okay well I have my coils coming in for the COP bracket. I will install that before I go for the injectors. Just so I don't go throwing money at the engine.
I went that route before, and ended up with an all new top end, dual exhaust, headers, and bunch of other crapola... Granted that would be nice, but I really need a car again.
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My 91 318is had the same problem when I got it. As for the rough running, I replaced, which may sound a bit much, every single hose in the engine bay. I also did a valve cover gasket job because oil was getting in the plugs and the car was only running on three plugs. I also did a full air plenum gasket replacement and every other place where an air leak could take place. Finally, for the idling problem if that doesn't work, replace the throttle cable. My car did run bad and stalled after revved and letting off the pedal. This I did before the hoses and the car ran fine.
Good Luck
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The throttle cable seems pretty loose... I geuss I should replace it.
I have replaced the intake plenum gaskets with new, and replaced all hoses (both vacuum, and coolant).
I really think that the #2 plug wire is shorting out on the block. I think that's where the ticking sound is coming from. And my coils should be at my house in a about a week or two. So we'll see if that helps the problem.
I am really starting to think it's a sparking problem. I can smeel un burnt fuel in the exhaust.
I mean I can smell fuel comoing from the suburban exhaust, but that's an 89' V8. I'd expect that a 91' 4 cyl from BMW would naturally burn most, if not all fuel in the cylinders.
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Okay, so I received my coils, and found out that they didn't come with the boots to bring spark to the plugs...
So I went and ordered the boots, an O2 sensor, air filter, and fuel filter.
I figure the O2 sensor will help bring down the richness of the afm, and plus at 266,000km, the car probably needs a replacement anyways.... same goes for the air filter.
The fuel filter should be changed as it is. I mean the lines are gonna get replaced, so the filter will need replacement aswell.
So I'll let you guys know how the coils, and O2, and air filter swap affect the engine idle. You just gotta wait until I get the parts. And I ordered those yesterday so it could be a while.
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What is the ideal idle speed? 1k?
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I see where BMWManiac is going. I just encountered the same problem wednesday when I put the car on the road. Here is the solution...
Next to the throttle cable where it connects to the mount on the plenum is a small nut surrounding a screw like bolt. This is the idle speed control screw. Loosen the nut (7 or 8mm) and turn to the right for a higher idle speed and to the left for a lower idle speed. I had the same ticking problem but have not gotten that fixed yet.
This will definately fix your idle problem. Be sparring with the turns as 1 turn is about 250 rpm.
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Okay so I got my parts in today.
I installed the boots only, and the engine runs much better with the COP on there.
The check engine light is off now, and the car idles around 1000rpm.
I am not installing the other parts, because it is raining here, and I don't feel like getting on the ground.
And my car will not go over the 3000rpm mark still. My one buddy thinks it's the Throttle Position Sensor. He told me his dads escort had the same problem, and that fixed it. Do you think that changing the TPS is all that's needed??
I'll check out that screw though.
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It seems when i read a thread, I develop those problems! The car ran beautifully until on my way home, the engine sputters like misfiring and then will kick in fine...my idle bounces now....I just replaced the plugs, replaced the intake elbow, replaced the fuel filter, and did all kinds of maintenance....I guess I'll try cleaning the ICV
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It seems when i read a thread, I develop those problems! The car ran beautifully until on my way home, the engine sputters like misfiring and then will kick in fine...my idle bounces now....I just replaced the plugs, replaced the intake elbow, replaced the fuel filter, and did all kinds of maintenance....I guess I'll try cleaning the ICV
I recommend that you do the same "pull the plug wires while running test" to check whether or not you have a dead wire. I had the same issue, where the car ran like crap but would clean up every now and then, and I had a dead cylinder 3 due to a bad wire. Worth a try.
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Mine turned out to be a hold in the coil boot....the metal ring that makes contact with the spark plug was arcing against the valve cover....plugged the hole with JB weld, electrical tape and engine runs like a champ....
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So I was reading some articles on here, and came across a nice little idbit of information.
Your supposed to remove something from the spark plugs before installation?? I don't know what part I am supposed to remove, and i didn't remove anything.
Can somebody clarify this for me??
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Okay so I changed the O2 sensor today. What a job that was...
I also reset the ECM by disconnecting the battery.
When the car first started up it ran better then it did before. The rpm's went up to 4000 and little higher, but it was still sluggish.
After a while the throttle felt squishy, and eventually if I floored the go pedal, the engine would just die. It would idle fine, and i could get the rpms up to 4000, but it took time, and I had to do it with lots of restraint.
That sounds like a dying/dead fuel pump don't it?? The fuel lines are pretty bad too granted. The brake lines burst the second time I applied the brakes, so maybe the fuel lines are allowing gas to trickle out, and I am loosing pressure.
What do you guys think??
Oh, and while I was under there I found out the large cat has a large hole in it... so now I need one of those too...
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My ICV scores 8.6 ohms between the two prongs...
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I believe my ICV was much higher, like 12.7 or something... not sure of the ideal range.
Also, the part about removing something on the spark plug wires, I've never seen anything that needs removing. Only the little cardboard surrounds on the spark plugs :) So I don't think you missed anything on the plugs that would cause a problem.
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ICV should read @ 20 Ohms
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my M42 had horrible issues when it came to going "flat out" as they say on top gear. It turned out i had a dirty ICV that failed (car stop idling), my TPS would dropped to 0 ohms at 75% or higher throttle, my fuel injectors were all covered in carbon. But all that didnt fix my issue of not being able to go "flat out" it turned out my car had been smart enough to learn how to run on 13 psi of fuel pressure. All that and my fuel pump was the source.
All those others odds and ends i replaced helped to make my car alot nicer once it no longer had running issues. Replacing the hoses and ICV made it idle but it wouldnt go fast until i replaced the fuel system :)
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I didn't want to start ordering parts again without some guidence... It feels like I am just throwing money at my car, and it's happily gobbling it up without any paybacks.
The fuel line are getting replaced the same time as the brake lines, so the fuel pump might aswell get changed too.
So I'll order an ICV, a fuel pump, and maybe a TPS if I can find one.
Thanks guys. I am trying to get my car road worthy so I can race my buddy's passat on the local track... Nothing serious it'll be just for fun.
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Will a fuel pump really fix a bad idle problem. My car started having some of these problems again and guess what .... it is making a ticking sound too.. My dad thinks it could be the fuel pump which is getting replaced this weekend but I'm not sure. It will rev happily all day but starts like clodking's did.. wtf!
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So I got my mustang injectors today, and during the installation I noticed the little something that made my engine run like crap...
You guys will probably never believe this but I left the rags I used to stuff the intake ports IN THE INTAKE PORTS!!!!
I noticed some fuzz in the intake runners, and thought, huh? And then I saw a wad of towel in each port. Just balled up, and sitting in there...
I took them out, cleaned up the runners, installed the injectors, and the car shoots up to six grand again like it did before.
I am suprised the car ran, let alone idle on it's own... I swear I took those out, but I geuss I didn't.
The car still bogs a little if I shoot it up from idle, but I still have a new fuel pump to get installed. Hopefully that will fix all my running woes, and I'll have a nice happy car when it's on the road.
Thanks fellas for all the help.