M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: Febi Guibo on May 09, 2006, 10:37:04 PM
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Hey, tomorrow AM I head off on my multi-state odyssey to pick up my new engine and have it installed. I leave from manhattan and will be headed to, well, sort of the middle of nowhere (south central missouri).
I'll try to post pics from my drive, and hopefully meet up with sheepdog in St. Louis for a beer (I guess a bud... or a busch).
Um, so, if anyone has any recommendations for things to see en route from new york to st. louis (I'm taking the most direct route, through columbus, OH and indianapolis) lemme know.
And watch this thread for updates... it's going to be a wild ride!
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Hey, tomorrow AM I head off on my multi-state odyssey to pick up my new engine and have it installed. I leave from manhattan and will be headed to, well, sort of the middle of nowhere (south central missouri).
I'll try to post pics from my drive, and hopefully meet up with sheepdog in St. Louis for a beer (I guess a bud... or a busch).
Um, so, if anyone has any recommendations for things to see en route from new york to st. louis (I'm taking the most direct route, through columbus, OH and indianapolis) lemme know.
And watch this thread for updates... it's going to be a wild ride!
Go to strip clubs, they're better outside of new york.
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Have a safe trip.
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Go to strip clubs, they're better outside of new york.
I like the way you think! :cool:
Good luck with the trip... I take it the trip home will go much quicker! Just watch out as lots of radar traps in Ohio. Cincinnati is a nice town. If you go through Cleveland, you can check out the Rock n' Roll hall of fame.
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Watch out for cops in NJ (if you pass through NJ), drive safe on your way back and best of luck.
When I lived in NJ, I made the drive from OH to NJ a few times, at night I would be on 80 and flat out FLY through PA and luckily never got nabbed :D
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(http://ee1394.com/bmw/fotomat/060510/bad_news.jpg)
well... i got as far as everett, PA
(100 miles east of pittsburgh)
I'll know some more tomorrow, but, uh, the adventure is apparently just beginning... ugh!
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Oh noes. What happened?
I don't think AAA will tow all the way to Missouri.
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Argh...what happened?
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(http://www.lactnews.com/e30tech/febi.jpg)
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:confused:
Details stat.
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sam blew a crankshaft seal, or at least he thinks so, tomorrow he's going to get a better look at it.
he's trying to find out a way to get there!! if anyone has any suggestions, im sure sam would love to hear em.
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If you had or if you can make it a little further west I could help as I live in Athens, OH; but it looks like you are prolly closer to NYC than here.
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Febi, I'm about an hour or so from Everett and your welcome here if need be. For repairs you may want to check out CR's BMW wholesale near Carlisle, PA. I've talked with them before and seem to be nice legitimate people.
Let me know and I'll PM you directions.
Good luck, Dan.
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Ouch...
That's my nightmare scenario, getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, car broken down.
I just checked the map... You're only about 90 minutes -2 hours from State College. LMK if I can do anything to help. Might be limited, because I have to be here for the ROTC spring commissioning ceremonies, but I have the weekend free if you're still stuck. Summer classes start on Monday also.
The worst news is that you're really out in the middle of nowhere. There really isn't much in the way of BMW service out here. I'd check out the shop that Twinpop recommended.
Good luck, and keep us updated.
Brian
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It will make a good story, at least.
someday, after the expense and annoyance has been forgotten
We are all waiting for the gory details, man.
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dang sorry to see that Sam, reminds me of when my crank sensor went out :(
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ah....adventures in driving. i remember the time when i was driving down....
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well... I'm still here... this AM, we tried to prime the oil pump with some thick oil and see if the engine would at least make oil pressure... no such luck... so... onto plan B... double ugh.
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Hey D.Clay that was too funny .;)
A little cruel but as they say ,
COMEDY IS NOT PRETTY !!!! :cool:
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Been there done that.
Isuzu Amigo (not mine), Rear main seal, Flagstaff Arizona, 4:45pm Friday in winter.
Yeah, right...
The dealer would not even be open untill monday, and we had to pay extra because it was after hours, for everything, towwing, storage, you name it.
Monday morning we rented a Uhaul, and a trailer and hauled it back to California. That was a looong trip.
Stories like that suck at the time, but looking back at them, it helps define you and your willingness to drive, often forgetting just how bad things got.
Oh, did I forget to mention it was footbal championships that weekend, hosted in Flagstaff? First hotel we checked had 1 room. we checked 4 more, all booked, called the first again, they were now booked. We ended up staying in the biggest shithole of a hotel for over $90 a night. This was 9 years ago, you could get a decent hotel for $40. Motel 6 for $29.
How bad was this hotel, lets just say it was right on Route 66 through town, probably as old as Route 66, and had a hole a foot in diameter in the bathroom door. It also had unclean sheets and the blankets had holes in them. Teh shower curtain did not work, toilet barely did. Far as I know, the hotel is still there. We worried about rats eating us, honestly, it was that bad.
We could not even get a cab, it was raining, we had luggage, which we could not leave in the car, and there were no cabs.
Yep, fun night.
I sorta liked Flagstaff, untill that weekend.
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Monday morning we rented a Uhaul, and a trailer and hauled it back to California. That was a looong trip.
That's not a bad idea... especially if it's going to cost a good amount to diagnose and fix the issues with the current engine (seeing as you're just going to rip it out anyways).
Sam, did you know you had engine problems before you started the trip? How many miles on the engine?
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damn hoping for the best sam!
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edit: thanks to Twinpop and M42 fan for offering to help out... it's going to be okay... but it's nice to know I've got M42 peeps in the area.... actually I kind of like it here, and did some growing up in pittsburgh so I'm used to the accent...
sandwich = Sangwich
radiator = Rahd-e-ator
you guys = yinz
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well... uhaul is $1600 for a truck and a trailer, so that's been ruled out... we're on to plan C, so we'll see how we do....
I'm still in it!! The adventure is just beginning!
The engine was doing fine before the crank gear / oil pump / crank seal decided to depart... when it went, I had been pushing the car pretty hard for a while... the lure of the road got me...
the engine has about 172,000 miles...
what's interesting is that right now, the engine isn't really leaking a ton of oil... it kind of burped up a bit at first... it's just now we can't get any oil pressure at all...
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edit: thanks to Twinpop and M42 fan for offering to help out... it's going to be okay... but it's nice to know I've got M42 peeps in the area.... actually I kind of like it here, and did some growing up in pittsburgh so I'm used to the accent...
No problem at all Sam. Sent you a PM.
Good luck, Dan.
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I had to get a frankenstein set of adapters to put a cheap oil pressure guage on mine.
Febi Guibo, hope you get it going and on with the adventure and it doesn't takes up too much time.
In Texas, the plural of "Y'all" is "All Y'all"
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If I remember right, he should be rolling again.
In a truck with the e30 behind it, but heading towards his destination no less.
The company doing the swap is helping him out.
Hopefully we will have an update later tonight or so.
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good to see things working out. oh and in north carolina we also say "ya'll" but that is already plural so we don't say "all ya'll" we just say "ya'll" again if we need to get attention!
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At least you have a fresh stroker waiting at the destination! Good luck!
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What is going in the E30 that started this excellent adventure. Sorry If I missed the point but that's nothing new around here. And Febi, thanks for directing me here in the first place. My own car is in the driveway with the back end up in the air like a cat in heat with the entire rear suspension spread around on the ground. My wife walked by the other day and said, "Well at least it's a BMW up on blocks!"
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We made it!
well... it's almost 5:00 am (4:00 am central time) and we're here. cliffs notes:
- I left NYC, heading to missouri to install a new M42 engine
- Lost oil pressure about 100 miles east of pittsburgh
- Unsucessfully tried some various stopgap fixes
- The engine builder sent their transmission and differential guy in a borrowed dodge ram 3500 truck w/uhaul trailer 850 (!) miles to pick me and my oil depressurized car up
- I drove said dodge ram diesel most of the 13+ plus hours from breezewood PA to STL. I never knew double clutching would come in so handy...
I will have more details soon... but a HUGE SHOUT OUT to metric mechanic, Jim Rowe, and esp his guy Court for driving a grand total of 26 out of the last 30 hours (1700 miles round trip) to get me here... unbelievably fantastically generous and I'm welling up a little writing this.
so, on to the next step of the adventure...!! more details soon... now to sleep!
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Geez, I leave the forums for a few days to play with my new toy (Daytona) and sell my beloved older toy (my 1996 Impala SS has found a good home), and look what happens!
:)
Sam - I'm glad to hear you made it.
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Glad to hear you finally made your destination. Keep us posted on Phase 2 of the excellent adventure.
Dan.
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Great news! Glad to hear you made it safely. Good luck with the rest of your project.
Brian
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Dam Sam, glad to see you made it. Sounds like you chose the right people to build the engine for you. Don't know too many guys that would go out of their way like that, but thank god there's a few out there.
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Great news! Glad to hear you made it safely. Good luck with the rest of your project.
Brian
:)
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Glad you made it.
You need to buy those guys some beer... After they finish the car.
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What motor is going into the e30? If you want to take a break on your trip back, assuming you make it more than 200 miles, in in Cbus [ohio] and wouldnt mind letting you stay in our spare room or go out for a bite to eat.
No sexual favors to speak of, but as you are from R3V im sure something homosexual would have to happen. :eek:
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What motor is going into the e30? If you want to take a break on your trip back, assuming you make it more than 200 miles, in in Cbus [ohio] and wouldnt mind letting you stay in our spare room or go out for a bite to eat.
No sexual favors to speak of, but as you are from R3V im sure something homosexual would have to happen. :eek:
It is getting a stroked m42.
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To sleep, to sleep....
Hooray for your dedicated mechanic. What a REAL humanitarian. I sure hope he gets all the business he obviously deserves. Does he sell parts?
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Some beer at this point I think it would be a keg thats one hell of a place for them to come out and get him makes you wish more people would be that helpfull Glade things are looking up for ya
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Some beer at this point I think it would be a keg thats one hell of a place for them to come out and get him makes you wish more people would be that helpfull Glade things are looking up for ya
To many ex-military a keg is only "a little" beer. :D
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I didn't realize you had contracted with Metric Mechanic to build your motor. Glad to hear that even despite the problems, they stand behind thier work. Hope they get everything fixed soon and you get your car back!
Looking forward to hearing about Febi's excellent adventure volume 2.
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I didn't realize you had contracted with Metric Mechanic to build your motor. Glad to hear that even despite the problems, they stand behind thier work.
Unless I am mistaken, the motor that blew up was not their work-the new engine is.
Pretty impressive customer service. Febi, when all is said and done, and you are (hopefully) fully satisfied, contact info for them would be appreciated.
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yeh thats correct, the motor that took a shit was the original motor, not the one he was going to pick up!
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dude, an engine swap takes like a day
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dude, an engine swap takes like a day
I look at the flat rate and double or triple it. That's worked out pretty well for me. Rusted and broken bolts, plastic clips, two extra trips to the parts store or the wrecking yard, taking the hoist back, $ for hoses, belts, coolant oil, filters, fluids, motor mounts, cleaning up the mess in the shop and on me, taking cores back ad nauseum. I have swapped an Accord motor in four hours and driven it home and changed engines at the track in 2 hours with a crew. The Accord motor had all the accessories on it and I didn't even degrease it or change the oil. The problems start if it's a car I care about like my 318is. I get into the "while I'm at it I may as well" mood and do all this other stuff that it's needed forever and of course it needs to look good too. The worst case scenario is a short block and separate head. And let's not forget the next day being a total waste for anything productive, nursing sore muscles, scuffed and chafed hands, and dirt in you eyes. Well for me anyway. Like that country song, Old enough to know better and too young to care!
All of that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I was just thinking of Febi having MetricMechanic turning wrenches. I'm sure they will be certain everything is max for their motorand it will take as long as it does to do it right! Otherwise they could have put the motor on a truck to NY.
Febi, inquiring minds want to know.
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yeh thats correct, the motor that took a shit was the original motor, not the one he was going to pick up!
Timing is everything. Looks like that one was on it's last leg. Glad it was the old motor and not the new one! I was thinking this was the fresh motor you had just picked up and had puked 100 miles into the return trip. :eek:
Glad you made it back and keep us informed when the motor swap is complete.
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lol dude, im not febi guibo..but i did speak to him once he got there. haven't heard from him since!
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call him or something!!!
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I spoke to him over aim a few times and I figure I'll let him tell you guys how everything is. But he is doing well.
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If nothing else, I will post an update tomorow, I am heading down to the shop to check it out.
I will try to get you guys butt dyno results.
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still here.... engine is in, dealing with some other stuff, pix soon... thanks all!
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wow, what an epic. can't wait to see the spec list of yours when its all done!
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.... actually I kind of like it here, and did some growing up in pittsburgh so I'm used to the accent...
sandwich = Sangwich
radiator = Rahd-e-ator
you guys = yinz
I'm still in it!! The adventure is just beginning!
hey man, good to hear you're back on track...
i grew up about 30mins from everett near a town called Altoona, PA. went to school in Pittsburgh, so I'm used to the "accents"
yinz still makes me cringe when i hear someone say it...makes absolutely no sense to me.
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can't wait for pics!
sam you better stop by when your coming back!!
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YAYERS!
You can stop by my place too while your at it, good way to break it in :D
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I saw the new engine today, all I can say is DAMN! :eek:
Based on the M3 I rode in with a similar power to weight ratio, that car will be a monster. The m3 (e36) did 120mph like most cars do 60, and got there just as fast.
The shop and people there are impressive, know their stuff and nice as hell. I will be going back for sure. I would definately trust them with my car, and I do not trust other people working on my stuff. They even took time out to take us for a ride in a modded car and show us around the shop. It felt like you were at a buddies house, who just happens to have every tool you could want for messing with your engine. Mills, welders, lifts, lathes, flowbenches, etc... All very nice people.
That motor is a work of art. Jim Rowe (sp?) (nice as hell guy) has spent so much time and thought on that engine. He probably took an hour explaining to me and my brother all he did to it and why. Which is A TON. They went as far as lightening the valvetrain and tweaking the intake manifold's design. A lot of thought and experimentation went into that motor.
I also am having douts about the balancer exploding myth we have heard about. There is simply nothing there to really explode. After looking at it and talking to Jim, I have serious doubts it is true. Funny thing though, BMW put a dual weight steel flywheel, yet an aluminum balancer... WHY?
We also found out the previous motors problem... Guys, next time you change your oil, drop the lower pan, look up inside, Pull all 6 or so bolts you see and re-install with locktite. What I saw today scared me, as well as everyone there I think.
We immediately found one bolt in the pan (not uncommon), which was being pounded into the pickup. 3 more were missing. The pan gasket was pushing out the front of the engine, not a big deal except that gasket also seals the pickup to the oil pump. When it slipped it allowed the pump to suck air from the pan area. Also his upper pan had bolts barely finger tight, which explains why the bots were pounding into the pickup.
Pull the lower pan, pull each bolt one by one, locktite and re-torque. Then re-torque the entire upper pan.
Hopefully Febi can get pics of what it looks like inside. My pan comes off within a month.
After thinking about it, I can see why these pans come loose. Every m42 pan I have seen has some signs of scraping the ground. This alone would loosen them up over time.
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do they know how much power its making?
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do they know how much power its making?
Estimates are about 210 I think.
Based on what I was told by Jim, I plugged it into a desktop dyno and got almost exactly what he expected, so this should be pretty close to accurate.
(By the way, best launch for a stock 318IS is a clutch dump at about 3400-3600rpm. )
I do not remember specific numbers but this should work.
STANDING START ACCELERATION RESULTS
Starting vehicle speed: 0 mph
Starting engine speed: 1700 rpm
Starting gear: 1st
Redline Shift Points:
1st 8000 rpm @ 35 mph
2nd 8000 rpm @ 64 mph
3rd 8000 rpm @ 99 mph
4th 8000 rpm @ 132 mph
Time to Speed:
0- 30 mph............ 1.8 sec.
0- 40 mph............ 3.3 sec.
0- 50 mph............ 4.4 sec.
0- 60 mph............ 5.6 sec.
0- 70 mph............ 8.0 sec.
0- 80 mph............ 9.9 sec.
0- 90 mph............ 12.1 sec.
0-100 mph............ 16.0 sec.
Time to Distance:
0- 100 ft............ 2.9 sec.
0- 500 ft............ 7.9 sec.
0-1320 ft.(1/4 mile). 14.4 sec.
@ 97.9 mph
Top Speed............. 145.5 mph
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Slightly revised.
Allowed it to shift at max rpm and it dropped 1/4mile and raised trap speeds.
This is also with stock BBS, rather than the 15in. Ronals he has, and with stock suspension height.
The height will help, the Ronals could help or hurt.
This is only a good approximation anyhow.
Good results though.
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wow! that was an absolutely awesome read. sounds like this place is just flat out amazing! i really wish i could have gone with Sam, but these damn finals!!! UGH.
Anyways, keep us updated with your visits...hopefully Sam will chime in tomorrow!
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Depending on how things go, I may go back Friday (400+ mile round trip so...), if I do I will try to remember to take my camera (DOH!).
Well worth the drive for me though.
I wish they were closer, I would be there a lot.
I am sure Sam can add a lot more info though. I was only there 4 hours or so, he will have been there a week.
Funny though, that place has almost no Bimmers other than them. The entire town thought they were nuts moving there from Kansas City. I kept joking that we "drive them funny lookin' foreign cars".
No joke at one gas station on the way there, my car stood out like a sore thumb, mine was not only the only red car, it was also the only foreign car and nice looking. One car driving around did not even have a hood. Damn city slickers...
Oh, and you guys think I joke when I say there are no other e30's around me, I saw one yesterday, and 2 today, I was shocked. I will probably not get to see another one for 3 months now. Think about that, I went 450 miles today and saw 2. I had one of them shocked to see me, and one cop I passed slowed down to look as well, and not because I was speeding.
I do not count the shop, or shows since they are supposed to be there, but even the last BMW show/get together, there was 3, counting mine.
Moral of the story, if you ever rob a bank in Missouri, do not use an e30. There is no way you will get away with it. Use a Pontiac!
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wow 8000rpm. I am doing this! now we just need full engine specs
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wow, sounds like its quite something, you know the complete spec yet?
I also am having douts about the balancer exploding myth we have heard about. There is simply nothing there to really explode. After looking at it and talking to Jim, I have serious doubts it is true
This is how i felt about it (and have been telling everyone who will listen!). I can see that the rubber for the VR pickup can perish, in fact my original balancer shows some signs of wear on the rubber (i've fitted a replacement), but other than this i think the design is strong enough for high rpms. It's not my favourite BMW design, but i don't think its liable to exploding. I think if I was running 8k rpm i'd change it though just as a matter of course really.
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wow, sounds like its quite something, you know the complete spec yet?
This is how i felt about it (and have been telling everyone who will listen!). I can see that the rubber for the VR pickup can perish, in fact my original balancer shows some signs of wear on the rubber (i've fitted a replacement), but other than this i think the design is strong enough for high rpms. It's not my favourite BMW design, but i don't think its liable to exploding. I think if I was running 8k rpm i'd change it though just as a matter of course really.
Most balancers weigh several pounds, that, is less than 2.
Even at 8k, it shoudl not generate enough force to have an issue, at least that was Jim's and my thoughts on it.
I guess we will find out though.
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wow 8000rpm. I am doing this! now we just need full engine specs
About the only thing I was not told was the exact cam profile and that is about all he did not share. However there is a lot of little tricks he uses to make the engine hit 8k.
I honestly do not know how much Jim would be happy with me posting on a board like this, as I know enough about engines to understand and replicate a lot of what he does, knowing this, I know another shop could use it to do something very similar if I could. He spent A LOT of time engineering this. I will say this, there is a ton of work on that motor in places you would not expect. It is overbuilt. More or less, it is a fully built race engine, minus the compression (Jim used to do circle track race engines).
Jim does have plans for another cheaper version that will simply be an overbore with the other mods. Works out to a 2.0 liter. While cheaper it is by no means a cheap rebuild, but you get what you pay for. I would guess power on that will be around 180-190 hp.
If you are honestly interested, talk to them. He is very open and took the time to show me everything while there. I just do not want to hand out a lot of the info about what all he does to just anyone who reads this place.
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If you are honestly interested, talk to them. He is very open and took the time to show me everything while there. I just do not want to hand out a lot of the info about what all he does to just anyone who reads this place.
Does he have a website? I'm guessing not, but if he did he would prolly get lots of interest.
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Does he have a website? I'm guessing not, but if he did he would prolly get lots of interest.
Or a lot of people bothering him.
Typically it seems to be a case of most serious engine builders spending most of their time in ths shop and not answering a bazillion e-mails from "wannabe" buyers.
They would guage buyer interest and seriousness better over the phone or can actually communicate better for that way. My 2 cents
The reality of the true engine builder seems to be one where their reputation sells their business and typically they are small outfits. Turner Motorsports, Dinan etc take the whole marketing thing to another level
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Does he have a website? I'm guessing not, but if he did he would prolly get lots of interest.
It is lacking but they do have a site.
http://www.metricmechanic.com/ (http://www.metricmechanic.com/)
Jim is not the cheapest builder, but he does it right.
He is quite well known.
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Ok, I went back to Metric Mechanic again today.
I got some pics I will post once they are edited, just got home a bit ago, I need to eat and shower first.
I talked to Jim about what I can tell you guys. I will work on that later tonight, got some pics of that as well however some of it I will leave for Febi as it is his car, I will just cover some of the finer mechanical details of the motor, they did much more than that to his car while he was there.
I also got some good pics of Febi's old motor and how/why what happened did, expect a complete write up soon explaining what happens or happened and how to prevent it from happening to you.
As for now, I did get a ride in the up and running car today, while not running perfect, they are still tuning and we think it has a vacuum leak, I would say it was pulling like a low to mid 15 second 1/4 mile car.
Way FAST for a 318is. It feels like an older Mustang GT (say 1991 best way I can describe it), and remember this is not running correct. And torque, wow does it have torque. Bottom end and midrange is unreal.
I talked with Jim, and I am probably going back to get a chip and an intake similar to Febi's. Once done he intends to market the combo. It improves low to midrange power. This will be a couple months away most likely. May also do a cam. Basically my car may become the guiney pig for some of his creations. He will not sell it if it does not actually produce results though.
Looks like we have an e30 m42 performance marketer finally!
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SWEET! I took a look at the website and i want to get some stuff from him! They had prices of exhausts on there, except im not sure if its for our engines..price was around $300 or so. Im interested in that chip that you mentioned...i'd love to get a little bit more in the low and mid range.
::Anxiously awaiting pictures and explainations!!::
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So, to ask a stupid question, is this an M42 that he is doing? 'Cause I don't see diddly about M42s at his website...
Ballpark cost on this?
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If you know, what comparison could you make between his chip and, say the Jim C or Mark D chip? I'm curious as to any differences.
Brian
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We bought engines for circle track and road racing in the late 80's and early 90's from some guys who would only build new engines to their spec. These were small block chevrolets and cost $22,000 each. They always said that there were a hundred builders that could make that much power and a lot of guys that said they could build the same motor for half of that. They blew up a couple every season. At the end of the year we sold ours for $18,000. The good old days = sponsors - nothing like racing on other peoples money!.
Sounds like Febi Guibo may be tooling around with that engine 100,000 miles from now. I have 200,000 on my M42 and am curious about what happened to that oil pump thingie and how to prevent it.
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Sory guys, been busy, I will try to get the info up later.
There is nothing on the website for M42 because this is the first one he has done.
Right now, he has plans to peice out nearly everything used on Fibi's car.
Chip/intake combo (just a guess, but expect around $1200-$1500, but remember, these are real gains)
cam
Heads
2.0 liter built motor (overbore with other power mods) probably available as a bottom end as well if you ask.
2.1 stroker, same as above, only stroked and bored.
In order to do 8k, you will need a built motor as everything gets modded.
I doubt he will do just a chip by itself, kind of pointless, as we have seen, what is out there does only a little, but ithat market is plenty full. That small of a gain is not really worth doing as far as he is concerned.
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I have 200,000 on my M42 and am curious about what happened to that oil pump thingie and how to prevent it.
If you read further back, I tell what happenned and how to prevent it, but the full write up with pics, and more detail is coming.
You should be able to do what is needed just from what I wrote though.
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Sorry, I am 62 years old and have early onset Alzheimer's. It started when I was about 14.
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I also got some good pics of Febi's old motor and how/why what happened did, expect a complete write up soon explaining what happens or happened and how to prevent it from happening to you.
VERY NICE! Thanks!
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Sorry, I am 62 years old and have early onset Alzheimer's. It started when I was about 14.
Ha Ha, not a problem.
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Thread is now up in the How-To section regarding what happened, includes pics and how to prevent it.
Here (http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594)
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More stuff.
Febi's motor
Yeah, I am a tease :D
(http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/teaser.jpg)
As for the motor and things done to it...
Febi will probably give the basics and some extra. Here are some of the finer things. I will add more as it comes to me, and probably more after Febi as posted. I do not want to spoil the fun too much.
Oiling has been tweaked to live at 8k. Stock oiling, will not cut it. This is not just a pump, there is machine work done to the block itself, as well as bearings.
Pistons are specially cut for extra cooling and non-interference, should the timing chain snap, no valves will be damaged.
The lifters/springs...
Something I had not thought of, Jim did. When you change the spring pressure, you need to adjust it to live with the cam (of course), as well as the lifter. Too much pressure and you will collapse the bucket. Too little and you can get valve float. it is a delicate balance, especially at 8k rpm. Even oil viscosity will need to be adjusted to compensate for all of it.
The head
Hard to tell, but each valve now has a brass guide, as well as a smaller diameter and shorter length valve stem. A brass valve seat sits in the recessed pocket, a shorter lighter spring is on that, ti keepers and lighter hydraulic buckets are also fitted. All in the name of RPM. Also the head has turbulence enhancements which makes the fuel mix better. This particular head did not have them.
(http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/head.jpg)
Febis car while undergoing tuning.
(http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/febicar.jpg)
Metric Mechanic
This is only a small portion of it. To the right is a bay, and behind me is another bay and a lift. Above us is the core storage. To the left is offices.
Yes it is a bit messy, they have been busy as hell. Their work however is impecable. I only wish they were closer.
(http://www.m42club.com/images/pumpsuck/metric.jpg)
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wow
im at a loss of words.
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As always, guys are always looking for more thinsg to do. Jim has some more ideas for even more weight savings if someone were game to give it a shot.
He also thinks it may be possible to get it to run on 13:1 compression due to what he does with the head..
If Febi's can hit 210hp (flywheel) I would imagine the higher compression, and lower weight could possibly get the car another 20-30hp.
Jim also has some ideas for a trans rear end combo, which after I played with it on the desktop dyno, the trans/rear will knock about 1/2 second off the 1/4 and 0-60, it also leaves you with a killer close ratio trans for the track.
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Wow, this will be one hell of a car!!
Is it a sin to be jealous?:D
Keep us all schooled, this is good stuff.
Dan.
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question:
is sam going to be using the stock flywheel?
what ratio will the rear end be?
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hey, I live...
I'm posting this from a motel 6 near washington, PA.
It's been a wild ride; BIG THANKS to doug / sheepdog and his bro for making the 2.5 hour drive TWICE down to see me.
I wanna say right away that this isn't some BS infomercial type thing for Jim Rowe, and his son teddy and court... they are really phenomenal people and treated me like family. If I were to say everything good about them that I experienced in the week (!) I was out there... it would be 10+ pages of posts and you still might not get the whole picture... let's just say they are on the approved vendor list.
Jim's operation is a little unusual... but so are his results.
I've been away from home and work for awhile, and I really had to get back to new york... unfortunately I could not spend another day out to finish tuning the car... sad, I know.
so right now:
- the engine is running on essentially a stock chip. Mark D. made some minor timing adjustments, raised the idle, disabled the O2 sensor, and raised the rev limit to around 7600 rpm or so.
- the engine is also technically, still in it's break-in phase... although...
- our test runs were made on 89 octane gas
- my original AFM was screwed... court was able to source one on a saturday night in this tiny town of 1805 people. Ernest is a hillbilly with a semi-non-running 318iS who lives on the outskirts of richland, MO. What are the odds?
While court was removing the AFM, ernest was shooting at turtles with a rifle. They sneak into his pond and eat the minnows and other fish he breeds.
- And finally... the fuel regulator was upgraded to 3.5 bar with 24# injectors (btw, the 4 pintle injectors aren't really meant for our cars, more on that later)
so, we did some test runs.
All I can say is that the overall performance is phenomenal. Doug drove the car friday night and the results we got saturday with a working AFM were even better.
While doing data capture and driving the thing flat out, all I can say is that the thing feels like it revs instantly and could keep revving forever... it makes solid accelleration from 3500 rpm clear up to around 7600 rpm ...the powerband is crazy wide.
Shifting the car at 7600 while doing 120+ down a twisty country road cost me some underpants.
They don't have a dyno on premises, and the dyno they use in town was closed at the time... we g-tech'd the car, and our best run looked almost exactly like doug's figures:
1/4 mile: 14.4 seconds at 98 mph.
(this is on a real road (not a track), 89 octane gas, street tires, with basically a STOCK chip and a barn-door teeny weeny M42 AFM)
Honestly, I personally don't really give a hoot about the 1/4 mile time and speed, but hopefully it helps keep things in perspective.
The craziest thing is that after driving all day yesterday (MO to PA) ...even with my oxygen sensor disabled... with this engine (larger displacement, more fuel pressure, larger injectors)
MY GAS MILEAGE WENT UP about 15-20%.
Driving 80 mph (4000 rpm in 5th) in my old car, I would get around 27-28... now, 80 mph I'm getting like... 32-33 mpg.
I'll try to post more deets as soon as I am back in NYC.
thanks everyone for your interest and support. All I can say is that even naturally aspirated, the M42 has tremendous potential. I think with some additional tuning and related bits... a 14 second / 100 mph car isn't so far off.
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question:
is sam going to be using the stock flywheel?
what ratio will the rear end be?
the flywheel is a custom machined, balanced steel flywheel that weighs about 10 lbs or so.
I'm using the 4.10 lsd I bought of your parts car!
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This sounds fantastic! Sounds like a real epic, we need more pics! I don't believe you're still running the m40 flappy AFM, surely it must be maxed out now? i'd love some more details on the engine, especially the head and the oil system. What size inlet/exh valves are you running?
your experience with fuel economy is interesting - I'm sure a lot of it was due to the broken AFM, but I must admit my 2.1 does pretty well for economy too.
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question:
is sam going to be using the stock flywheel?
what ratio will the rear end be?
When is Sam coming back? I wanna see this badf bitch already.
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I'm still in friggin PA... I should be back tonight...
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I'm still in friggin PA... I should be back tonight...
Aye man, what time you gonna be arriving in NYC. Jonas and I will be eagerly awaiting ur arrival outside my house. Dennis, if you can break away from studying, you should come by too.
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jesus. how much did you drop on that thing
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Aye man, what time you gonna be arriving in NYC. Jonas and I will be eagerly awaiting ur arrival outside my house. Dennis, if you can break away from studying, you should come by too.
depends what time he comes back...im pretty sure ill head out REGARDLESS!!!
have you called him up man? ask him what time he'll be in the area!
i just took my first final of the day, economics...shit was tough. english is @ 6. hopefully i can make it back in time to meet up with you guys.
oh and sam, i completely forgot you were using the 4.10lsd...LOL
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jesus. how much did you drop on that thing
I doubt he will post a number.
I have a decent idea, and lets just say it is expensive. Worth it, but expensive.
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hey, I live...
I'm posting this from a motel 6 near washington, PA.
It's been a wild ride; BIG THANKS to doug / sheepdog and his bro for making the 2.5 hour drive TWICE down to see me.
I wanna say right away that this isn't some BS infomercial type thing for Jim Rowe, and his son teddy and court... they are really phenomenal people and treated me like family. If I were to say everything good about them that I experienced in the week (!) I was out there... it would be 10+ pages of posts and you still might not get the whole picture... let's just say they are on the approved vendor list.
Jim's operation is a little unusual... but so are his results.
I've been away from home and work for awhile, and I really had to get back to new york... unfortunately I could not spend another day out to finish tuning the car... sad, I know.
so right now:
- the engine is running on essentially a stock chip. Mark D. made some minor timing adjustments, raised the idle, disabled the O2 sensor, and raised the rev limit to around 7600 rpm or so.
- the engine is also technically, still in it's break-in phase... although...
- our test runs were made on 89 octane gas
- my original AFM was screwed... court was able to source one on a saturday night in this tiny town of 1805 people. Ernest is a hillbilly with a semi-non-running 318iS who lives on the outskirts of richland, MO. What are the odds?
While court was removing the AFM, ernest was shooting at turtles with a rifle. They sneak into his pond and eat the minnows and other fish he breeds.
- And finally... the fuel regulator was upgraded to 3.5 bar with 24# injectors (btw, the 4 pintle injectors aren't really meant for our cars, more on that later)
so, we did some test runs.
All I can say is that the overall performance is phenomenal. Doug drove the car friday night and the results we got saturday with a working AFM were even better.
While doing data capture and driving the thing flat out, all I can say is that the thing feels like it revs instantly and could keep revving forever... it makes solid accelleration from 3500 rpm clear up to around 7600 rpm ...the powerband is crazy wide.
Shifting the car at 7600 while doing 120+ down a twisty country road cost me some underpants.
They don't have a dyno on premises, and the dyno they use in town was closed at the time... we g-tech'd the car, and our best run looked almost exactly like doug's figures:
1/4 mile: 14.4 seconds at 98 mph.
(this is on a real road (not a track), 89 octane gas, street tires, with basically a STOCK chip and a barn-door teeny weeny M42 AFM)
Honestly, I personally don't really give a hoot about the 1/4 mile time and speed, but hopefully it helps keep things in perspective.
The craziest thing is that after driving all day yesterday (MO to PA) ...even with my oxygen sensor disabled... with this engine (larger displacement, more fuel pressure, larger injectors)
MY GAS MILEAGE WENT UP about 15-20%.
Driving 80 mph (4000 rpm in 5th) in my old car, I would get around 27-28... now, 80 mph I'm getting like... 32-33 mpg.
I'll try to post more deets as soon as I am back in NYC.
thanks everyone for your interest and support. All I can say is that even naturally aspirated, the M42 has tremendous potential. I think with some additional tuning and related bits... a 14 second / 100 mph car isn't so far off.
No prob on coming down. It was great to finally meet and check things out.
While I got a ride, I never actually drove it, my brother did.
I have a darn good ideas though as I have driven cars that fast. Somehow I just missed doing it. A lot goes on at that place. I agree with you about the place, a bit odd, but great people and results.
By the way, the trans rear end swap would kick you into the 13's, and while I know you are not concerned with q-mile times they are good for comparisons.
Glad you are almost home, as I am sure you are.
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By the way guys, I have been really watching how my car drives mpg and speed-wise.
It seems there is almost a wall at about 80 mph. When you cross it, the mileage drops about 3%. Granted Febi's with its better power it probably shifted that point up a few more mph.
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the mileage of the car only appeared to drop because much bigger injectors are being used
and what was it like $15k
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No joke, my motor just shit the gasket like Febi's.
1/8 mile from home, I coasted to within 500 feet of my driveway, and pushed it the rest. While I have not pulled the pan, I know this is what it was, I did catch it as soon as it happenned though.
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No joke, my motor just shit the gasket like Febi's.
1/8 mile from home, I coasted to within 500 feet of my driveway, and pushed it the rest. While I have not pulled the pan, I know this is what it was, I did catch it as soon as it happenned though.
:eek: wtf is this a conspiracy?
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:eek: wtf is this a conspiracy?
seriously! wtf!! im gonna have to check mine this weekend!
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Post what you find in the other thead. I honestly think we are just scratching the surface on how big this problem is.
This could be another "Profile Gasket" situation.
I am contempating going down to the local racer/machinist and having bolt heads drilled for safety wire so they can never come loose again. That should keep those bolts tight! It is used on raace cars and aircraft.
I am mostly scared of finding the gasket in bad shape and needing to be replaced. Which means, I will have to go rent an engine hoist, or go buy one.
For those wondering, safety wire is twisted wire that pulls the bolt tight by looping through a hole in multiple bolt heads or an anchor point. Basically each bolt pulls the other tight by way of this wire. If you want to try it, read a tutorial, if you do it wrong, you will actually pull the bolts loose. Trust me, I saw many trained guys do this on aircraft (which is why we have a second person double check). It is easy to do it backwards.
Like this:
(http://www.avweb.com/newspics/191176_safety_wire_example.jpg)
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heh, thats pretty cool...can you describe it a little more though..
how does "each bolt pull the other tight by of this wire" ? this wire is looped through several bolts?
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Febi, have you installed those ignition coils you bought yet? I see you have the magnecor ignition wires :).
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heh, thats pretty cool...can you describe it a little more though..
how does "each bolt pull the other tight by of this wire" ? this wire is looped through several bolts?
The wire is wrapped around the bolt in a direction that pulls it tight, then goes to another bolt, and loops around it so that it pulls tight.
The following pictures show it, but to be honest, these would fail an inspection for aircraft. If you look at how the wire is attached, it pulls the bolt in a tightening direction.
The reason these would fail is the second bolts are more or less pulling neutral, not actually tightening.
Link (http://www.rc51.org/wire1.htm)
(http://www.rc51.org/Finished%20Wire%20Pics/fork_bolts.jpg)
(http://www.rc51.org/Finished%20Wire%20Pics/rear_cal.jpg)
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its mainly meant to keep them from falling out
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its mainly meant to keep them from falling out
Depends on the way it is wired, some parts are wired for retention, some is wired to stay tight. If it is a bolt, it is so that it stays tight. No point in using it just to hold a bolt in place, too easy for it to case the bolt to loosen.
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Well, I may have done something closer to what BMWman91 did. Shredded the timing chain and pump assembly..
Only 2 bolts in my pan, the rear most. However there was much more in there. Aluminum, timing chain peices, etc...
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The most commen safety wired parts on race cars are rotor to brake hat allen head cap screws and ring gear to carrier bolts. All drain plugs are safety wired and lots of other stuff. ARP and other companies make a lot of pre drilled fasteners. You'll probably end up using them whenever possible because it's hard to drill those little holes in hardened fasteners.
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The most commen safety wired parts on race cars are rotor to brake hat allen head cap screws and ring gear to carrier bolts. All drain plugs are safety wired and lots of other stuff. ARP and other companies make a lot of pre drilled fasteners. You'll probably end up using them whenever possible because it's hard to drill those little holes in hardened fasteners.
A race or machine shop can do it.
Not for the average home do-it-yourselfer though. Unless you like torture and breaking lots of bits.
I am more concerned right now with the other bits I found in the pan.
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Yo Sam, can u explain the deal with the 4 pintle injectors?
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By the way, the trans rear end swap would kick you into the 13's, and while I know you are not concerned with q-mile times they are good for comparisons.
Glad you are almost home, as I am sure you are.
a bit OT, but am i missing something with this quarter mile estimate? sam's car is putting out an estimated 210bhp, and should be slower than a good m3 s14 (no offence intended - m3 = bigger capacity, bigger valves, superior head design and ITBs for a start). s14 does the quarter in about 15s with a close-ratio dogleg box with a 1:1 5th gear, LSD etc. i dont see how sam is gonna get into the 13s, even s50b32s etc and s50 converted e30s struggle to get those sorts of times over here. one of the best over here, an s50b32 e30 with an astounding spec list only just breaks into the 13s. this car has well over 300bhp and much more torque than sam's car.
would have thought mid 15s would be about the mark?
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well his car has like 20 more HP then a tip top shape s14, and it weighs like 200 or more pounds less
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well his car has like 20 more HP then a tip top shape s14, and it weighs like 200 or more pounds less
I meant BMW S14, not nissan, just to clarify, but i think you meant the same. sure stock weight = 1260kg vs our 1125kg. but power output must be a good bit higher than sam's for obvious reasons, why do you think sam's would be more powerful? the stats dont match up. even if sam were making 20hp more and weighed 200lbs less, that wouldn't mean 13s rather than 15s, and still doesn't explain why a 320+bhp e30 can only just break into the high 13s.
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That sounds like an AWESOME motor! I would be surprised if it were making 210 at the fly though. Metric Mechanic is notorious for inflating performance figures.
I love it though!
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that guy on bimmer forums made like 170whp with stock head and intake
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That sounds like an AWESOME motor! I would be surprised if it were making 210 at the fly though. Metric Mechanic is notorious for inflating performance figures.
I love it though!
G-tech, desktop dynos and 1/4 mile times are pretty close to what they should be for its weight and estimated power.
210hp for a 2.1 liter car is not hard to imagine. Honda has acheived 100hp per liter for quite a while. Even Mark D. (the chip programmer) noticed the engine was far more efficient.
Even compared to other cars of known power it responds exactly as it should. If it is off by more than 15hp, I would be surprised, and there is still more power there to be tapped with more tuning and some internal engine changes. There is more weight to remove and more compression available.
Along with more cubic inches, this motor has a pretty wild cam, lighter parts, flow benched, and has higher compression.
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that guy on bimmer forums made like 170whp with stock head and intake
it was never confirmed though. I think it might have been a slight exaggeration.
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G-tech, desktop dynos and 1/4 mile times are pretty close to what they should be for its weight and estimated power.
210hp for a 2.1 liter car is not hard to imagine. Honda has acheived 100hp per liter for quite a while. Even Mark D. (the chip programmer) noticed the engine was far more efficient.
Even compared to other cars of known power it responds exactly as it should. If it is off by more than 15hp, I would be surprised, and there is still more power there to be tapped with more tuning and some internal engine changes. There is more weight to remove and more compression available.
Along with more cubic inches, this motor has a pretty wild cam, lighter parts, flow benched, and has higher compression.
i reckon 210bhp would be a hopeful figure, but is def possible. seen 20XEs getting close to that figure without ITBs but race cams and custom fuelling. but is def quite a hopeful figure, as would be about the same output per litre as a euro s50 which has almost identical design and ports to the m42, but bigger inlet valves (prob most importantly), throttle bodies (at least 3 times the surface area of m42), stronger valvetrain (solid lifters etc), vanos, MAF, higher fuel pressure and the list goes on. so I think 210bhp would be a high estimate, but is certainly possible. still dont see how a 210bhp e30 will do a 13s quarter mile though. really dont. an evo2 S14 has 215bhp factory, the guy who dyno'd my m42 (before 2.1) at 112bhp atw on MS makes nearly 180bhp atw on the same rollers (in other words s14s do better than factory figures on the rollers). that will do a quarter in 15s. as for the 170bhp at the wheels of the guy on bimmerforums, i think that was a high figure. i have a 2.1 M42 and it probably makes about that figure at the flywheel, which is what you'd expect if you consider the increase in capacity and increase in VE and higher CR etc.
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i reckon 210bhp would be a hopeful figure, but is def possible. seen 20XEs getting close to that figure without ITBs but race cams and custom fuelling. but is def quite a hopeful figure, as would be about the same output per litre as a euro s50 which has almost identical design and ports to the m42, but bigger inlet valves (prob most importantly), throttle bodies (at least 3 times the surface area of m42), stronger valvetrain (solid lifters etc), vanos, MAF, higher fuel pressure and the list goes on. so I think 210bhp would be a high estimate, but is certainly possible. still dont see how a 210bhp e30 will do a 13s quarter mile though. really dont. an evo2 S14 has 215bhp factory, the guy who dyno'd my m42 (before 2.1) at 112bhp atw on MS makes nearly 180bhp atw on the same rollers (in other words s14s do better than factory figures on the rollers). that will do a quarter in 15s.
It is estimated at mid 14's. Not 13's. To hit 13 requires a close ratio transmission, and a rear end gear perfectly mated to it, which is NOT a 4.10. We tried every gear available from BMW in the last 15 years to find the right one to use, then played with tire/wheel size to get it perfect. BMW does not gear for acceleration.
If you play with rear end and tranys on many cars you can find a lot of extra speed tucked away in them. The problem is that they can whine on highways (though not in this case) or cause a dramatic drop in economy. In this case, he would probably loose about 1-3mpg, but he already gets better than stock.
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the bigger injectors just make it seem like better then stock
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ok: recap and some photos:
http://ee1394.com/bmw/fotomat/060529/
Hey, sorry to everybody for seemingly dropping off the face of the earth... it was a long, exhausting trip heading out and back, plus breaking down and the usual work getting the car sorted out.
I saved a lot of additonal stuff to be dealt with during / post swap, including a rebuilt tranny
(done literally around the corner from Thumper3ld in queens!),
a used 4.10 lsd (purchased from denis / dude8383) and a million other things that make sense to do when the engine is out.
quick thanks / answers:
- twinpop, M42fan: thanks again for the shout-out when I was kinda in my darkest hour. If I ever break down again, I wanna do it in Western PA... yinz are truly great people.
- qship and e9nine: you guys have PM re: metric mechanic. Call them and the owner Jim Rowe will *happily* talk to you at *length* about anything BMW related. The man can spin a yarn... I'm buying shares of his phone company's stock.
- nickmpower: cost estimate re: the engine: it's around 1/2 of your guess, thereabouts. (I got a break on the price because I was the first!)
- various horsepower estimates etc: we timed the car on a g-tech, I posted our best run. Obviously it doesn't mean much compared to a dyno (I am getting to that soon).
- finally: sheepdog: THANK YOU very much for driving out and answering the various questions and generally providing moral support and friendship.
We are extremely lucky to have a man such as yourself running our board. This guy is the real deal folks.
Some bitch hit my car
Okay, so I have kind of been recovering from BMW overload, 10 missed days from work, and (at the end of this message, a real special announcement)... and to make matters worse:
I parked my car on the street after I got home, came out the next day and SOMEONE HIT MY CAR!!! ...so I gotta get a new driver's side door and I'm really pissed about it. Totally crushed the door, the door handle, and god knows what else. It sucks, basically. What is wrong with people?!
We actually caught it on tape (there is a security camera on the bldg. next door) but the friggin angle was off so we couldn't get the plate #. We could, however, see her fat ass, talking on her cell phone, while she backs into my car. Big SUX. Where's CSI in real life??
general comments about metric mechanic:
As I said before... they are truly GREAT PEOPLE. It's a family shop that truly made me feel like part of their family. All of the BMW and engine crap aside, it was a life altering thing. Jim Rowe is one of the most intelligent, interesting people I've ever met (this is saying a lot).
Getting out of NYC and into the midwest for a week or so changed my thinking about a lot of stuff, and Jim, his wife, his son, their guys Courtney and (the other Jim), and basically, the entire friggin' town of Richland, MO helped put things into a different focus. It was a great experience and all I can say is 'BIG THANKS!". Words can't really cover it.
Specifically about the BMW side... it's a great trip. The shop is totally informal; I had complete access to everything and worked alongside them on the installation and the various other stuff.
Jim's son Teddy and their guys Court and the other Jim (Mr. Kempner) really know their stuff and can basically do it all. I had complete access to everything I needed and I learned more in the 7 days than I knew rolling in (not saying much, lol).
It was a 100% positive, zero B/S thing. If you ever wanted to work with a family operation where it was all product quality and knowledge and zero marketing b/s, this is it. They won't kiss your ass, but I realized as I was leaving that they give their customers 100% access because they have absolutely nothing to hide professionally or personally. It's that cool.
Anyway, the engine itself is great. Without a dyno, obviously the numbers situation is an open discussion. I can say this... shifting at 7600 rpm is enough excitement for me. The car has the same balance, handling, everything, except that the power and acceleration is *intense* at 3500 to 7500+ rpms. This thing has a w-i-d-e power band. I had a chance to drive both and the experience at full-throttle is roughly comparable to a 3.2L E36 M3. ("roughly" ... I'm not saying it's a 3.2L E36 M3).
The camming is aggressive with a lot of overlap (at least 288 on the intake and slightly less on the exhaust) and my idle is now around around 1000 rpms... I may actually detune the engine a little as I spend a ton of time in traffic.
I had a magnaflow exhaust put on... it's way too friggin loud so I'm going to put a resonator on it. I had a 19 hour drive to 'get used to it' and it didn't help much. It is free flowing, however.
General notes:
- the final displacement is around 2130 cc; the bore and stroke are almost exactly square and the pistons were set up to make it a non-interference engine.
- The head has 6mm valve stems, M50 lifters, and custom rods, pistons (wiseco) and wrist pins. The M50 lifters are interchangeable with stock, but hold a little more oil. Jim did EVERYTHING possible to reduce recpirocating mass and it really shows.
- The flywheel is a custom machined / lightened M20 flywheel... it drives fine and chatters a teeny bit at idle. I went with a sachs spring-loaded clutch. The lightened flywheel is a BIG MUST DO MOD. Jim can mail order the flywheels btw.
- I had an electric fan put in. Others have commented on it... just DO IT! I will dig up the various part #s for the fan and the relay. If you live in a cold weather climate with mild summers and no bumper to bumper traffic... my opinion, go ahead and remove the clutch fan thing.
- The tuning and AFM issues: this is going to be an ongoing thing. Right now, I'm running a stock chip with a raised idle and rev limit. Empirically, I've seen firsthand how lame the M42's stock partial throttle programming is, both in terms of A/F mgmt. and timing. Full throttle is actually pretty good.
Mark D'sylva was EXTREMELY HELPFUL (holy crap is he a nice guy) in getting me a chip that I could use to safely drive home, so he will probably be picking up the torch as far as getting the engine up to tune.
Obviously, you good M42 folks with ITB and MAF projects are also going to figure into this as well.
- the M42 has really tremendous exhaust headers. Be nice and have your exhaust headers bead-blasted and powdercoated people!
-project cost / benefit:
Well, this is going to be tough. Ironically the June issue of GRM with the E30 DASC arrived the day I was leaving... so, the good news (for everyone but me and Tim_s) is that there's a bolt on M42 supercharger...! I would imagine it's a great mod... there's no getting around the great economics of it.
I can't really comment on the S50 swap from a technical standpoint, but my advice is this: if you want an S50, it comes free with every running E36 M3.
Maybe we can convince Zoso to do a writeup on the swap, as he owns both. :)
All I can say is I have no regrets... my trip was pretty... moving to say the least, and honestly, the engine at this point is more a souvenir of a great experience. But, having said all that... I have a brand new engine that makes great power and revs to forever, and the car is even more of a joy to drive. I always loved my M42 and well... I'll have it for a long, long time.
Final notes:
Hopefully I will be able to get my (friggin) door fixed and get the thing on a dyno, tuned, and ready to roll in the next month. Having said that... the car is kinda the last thing on my mind right now because:
- I turned 35 last sunday (the 21st)
- I proposed to my girlfriend and she said yes!
link to my off topic thread:
the once and future Mrs. Guibo: (http://m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5687)
so, all's well that ends well...
it took all that to get my head straight and start to figure out love, life, and the M42.
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Congrats sam on both the motor and the fiancee. So when and where's the bachelor party? I'll do the research on an e30 m42 stretched limo. If anything, we can make one out of all our cars.
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I love it. Awesome story except for the bashed door.
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question about the flywheels...
jim takes care of sourcing the flywheel and lightening it? how much will it cost to have it shipped to me?
also, more importantly, will this flywheel bolt up to our cars?
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question about the flywheels...
jim takes care of sourcing the flywheel and lightening it? how much will it cost to have it shipped to me?
also, more importantly, will this flywheel bolt up to our cars?
If you get it from Jim, it should be a bolt in affair.
Call them up and ask though. As Febi said they are up font and will hide nothing.
Sorry to hear about the door Febi, and I would have been there more had it been closer.
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Very impressive stuff man, glad everything...for the most part came together smoothly.
Any luck in finding the woman who rammed your door?
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Okay, so, any BDTD's on the flywheel? I have the same flywheel in my car and having problems with getting the starter to turn it. Sounds like it's hitting the flywheel versus turning it.
Does Metric Mechanic have much experience with this mod? Is there anyone I can call there to consult on this??
So, is there any chatter when you engage the clutch?? How light did you go? Mine's right at about 17 lbs on the scale.
Any advice greatly appreciated. Sounds like it's a MUST DO mod from everyone I've heard done it. This is all good news to me.
Hope I have the same results.
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I can't really comment on the S50 swap from a technical standpoint, but my advice is this: if you want an S50, it comes free with every running E36 M3.
Maybe we can convince Zoso to do a writeup on the swap, as he owns both. :)
...
- I turned 35 last sunday (the 21st)
- I proposed to my girlfriend and she said yes!
I'd love to do the swap.. is my M42club sponsered S50 on it's way from the euro depot? :D Unless I find a spare S54 and a wiring kit lying around, the S52 is staying in the M3 :) Drool - S54 in an E36 M3....
Actually I'm interested in hearing/reading more about the E30 M42 supercharger... because I don't think that would overly effect fuel economy. (I love the 30+MPG on my daily 80 mile commute). Blah - who am I kidding. I'll be spending all my car funds to replace the worn suspension/steering bits in the 98 Jeep I just bought.
Glad to hear that things went well with the engine. It sounds like it's a blast. Enjoy it! Also, congrats with the engagement. I was scared to pop the question and I knew for sure that the answer would be a yes. She asked me many times but I reluctant because marriage is a huge change in life.
I finally manned up and asked, eventually got married, and just 6 weeks ago had a son. Crazy... but it's all good. When you find the right girl, it's great to experience life together.
Congrats and don't let anything destroy your buzz - including that bitch that backed into your car. Karma is a bitch. She'll get ovarian cancer or something.
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actaully sounds like a pretty good deal for what you got. isnt the engine not broken in yet!?!? maybe you should take it a little easier.
the e36 head comes with 6mm stems
was anything done about the dampner?
could you give us specs on the pistons?
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actaully sounds like a pretty good deal for what you got. isnt the engine not broken in yet!?!? maybe you should take it a little easier.
the e36 head comes with 6mm stems
was anything done about the dampner?
could you give us specs on the pistons?
A good well built engine can be treated a bit worse on break in.Manufacturers are easier on them because they are basically slapped together with loose tolerances and unknown variables.
This is not to say you should beat the hell out of it right away, but you do not need to be as carefull.
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hey thanks all for the kind sentiments...
the pistons are custom from wiseco... they are around 88mm, with custom work for the valve cut-outs, and some additional work to help cool the things. Sorry for the lack of detail here, but wiseco was pretty mum on the deets, aside from certifying they met the supplied spec and qualified for their warranty.
This is the best pic of the bottom end stuff is attached.
re: the flywheel... it's custom, steel, and it's a direct bolt-on. It comes balanced, resurfaced, dressed, etc. I watched them machine mine and it was pretty cool!
You can call the shop and ask for Jim, Teddy or Court. It weighs around 10+ pounds or so. There is a little more noise at idle, but it starts fine and there's no clutch chatter; although I did put in a new sachs clutch as well.
It's not quite as light as an aluminium flywheel, but I saw a couple of relatively low mileage aluminium flywheels at the shop and folks: they don't look so hot after 20-30k miles.
The mod get's you into the M42s sweet spot a LOT faster... I was expecting good results but was still suprised at the difference.
The harmonic balancer dampener thing... it's been covered before... honestly... the engine has been tested at WOT, shifting at around 7600 rpms and so far, so good. If something goes south with it, you guys will be the first to know.
Provided you use a new balancer, I'm pretty confident we can file this one under the 'myth' category --although when I'm wrong... I tend to be spectacularly wrong. lol.
re: engine break-in: this was a really tight build and everybody involved was confident that we would basically go out and flog it immediately!
I drove relatively slowly back to NYC... so it's got about 1100 highway miles at 3000 rpm or so. We'll see how it goes. I'm switching to synthetic oil before going nuts with it.
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Febi, congratulations on EVERYTHING (except for the fat bitch door issue).
It's always good to travel and see how others live. Different perspectives on life can be invaluable. I've come to realize that fate is everything in life whether good or bad. Everything happens for a reason to make us better people as long as we're smart enough to learn from it. Sounds like you had a great 2 weeks even with the problems.
Glad to offer you the help and place to stay if you needed it. Any time you need to come to western PA you've got a room.
Happy birthday too.
Dan.
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hey thanks all for the kind sentiments...
the pistons are custom from wiseco... they are around 88mm, with custom work for the valve cut-outs, and some additional work to help cool the things. Sorry for the lack of detail here, but wiseco was pretty mum on the deets, aside from certifying they met the supplied spec and qualified for their warranty.
This is the best pic of the bottom end stuff is attached.
re: the flywheel... it's custom, steel, and it's a direct bolt-on. It comes balanced, resurfaced, dressed, etc. I watched them machine mine and it was pretty cool!
You can call the shop and ask for Jim, Teddy or Court. It weighs around 10+ pounds or so. There is a little more noise at idle, but it starts fine and there's no clutch chatter; although I did put in a new sachs clutch as well.
It's not quite as light as an aluminium flywheel, but I saw a couple of relatively low mileage aluminium flywheels at the shop and folks: they don't look so hot after 20-30k miles.
The mod get's you into the M42s sweet spot a LOT faster... I was expecting good results but was still suprised at the difference.
The harmonic balancer dampener thing... it's been covered before... honestly... the engine has been tested at WOT, shifting at around 7600 rpms and so far, so good. If something goes south with it, you guys will be the first to know.
Provided you use a new balancer, I'm pretty confident we can file this one under the 'myth' category --although when I'm wrong... I tend to be spectacularly wrong. lol.
re: engine break-in: this was a really tight build and everybody involved was confident that we would basically go out and flog it immediately!
I drove relatively slowly back to NYC... so it's got about 1100 highway miles at 3000 rpm or so. We'll see how it goes. I'm switching to synthetic oil before going nuts with it.
Aye man, still waiting for you to explain the whole 4 pintle injector thing and why it maybe bad for our cars.
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hey thanks all for the kind sentiments...
re: the flywheel... it's custom, steel, and it's a direct bolt-on. It comes balanced, resurfaced, dressed, etc. I watched them machine mine and it was pretty cool!
You can call the shop and ask for Jim, Teddy or Court. It weighs around 10+ pounds or so. There is a little more noise at idle, but it starts fine and there's no clutch chatter; although I did put in a new sachs clutch as well.
It's not quite as light as an aluminium flywheel, but I saw a couple of relatively low mileage aluminium flywheels at the shop and folks: they don't look so hot after 20-30k miles.
I called and spoke with Jim. Wow, those guys definately know thier stuff when it comes to building BMW motors. He was telling me about your conversion and most of the stuff was going right over my head. :rolleyes:
So, if you didn't know already, your flywheel is an M20 flywheel that's been lightened. They then shaved down the outer surface and stamped on the stock M42 ring gear. That way you can use the stock M42 starter and there aren't problems with the spacing or hitting the oil pan.
I think he used some sort of modified E36 throw-out bearing, but I'm not sure exactly.
This sounds like the best option out there. He said a stock M20 flywheel is about 23 lbs, and when resurfaced you might be sitting at 20-22 lbs, but not the quoted 17 lbs.
Actually, Febi... your flywheel is about 10.5 lbs, which is real close to the weight of an aluminum flywheel. I think he's using an E30 Sachs clutch, but not the stock M20 one. Maybe you can elaborate?
Sounds like this is the ultimate setup. If you want this flywheel, convince them to make a drop in kit and sell it! :D They can make you the flywheel, however. Just call and ask for Jim.
Wish I'd known about this before I tried to do this in-depth M20 flywheel conversion. Now my car doesn't start! :mad:
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so the dampner is new? damn, those are like $600 arent they?
also did you get the crank new?
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so the dampner is new? damn, those are like $600 arent they?
also did you get the crank new?
$600?
That is steep for what it is.
Honestly, for that much, I would just give it a good looking over and call it done. Especially after seeing what it is made of and what it looks like.
I really hesitate to call it a balancer, or a dampner. It does not weigh enough. It is more of a timing indicator and pulley more than anything else. Not ebnough mass there to explode.
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Couple things regarding Alum. flywheels.
Some race organizations have banned them. While you may not care if you do not race in those sanctions, they banned them for good reason. They have atendency to come apart. Hot flying aluminum does not appeal to me.
Also many aluminum flywheels cannot handle high spring pressure loads. Which may have been what lead to what's above.
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Aye man, still waiting for you to explain the whole 4 pintle injector thing and why it maybe bad for our cars.
Yea...I was kind of waiting for this answer also....
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Hey Febi Guibo, I just signed up to this forum guz of your whole story. What an adventure man. I was just wondering if the crank your using is an offset ground OEM crank or is it custom job. Also are you going to continue to use your stock AFM or a custom MAF setup oh and one more thing are you using the stock BMW header or a Superprint 4 into 1. I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions but I'm a detail freak I've been waiting for somone to do this conversion for a long time. I always loved the M42. I think its a well made motor that deserves way more R & D than it gets compared to its big brother the M50. Congrats on the engagement also........
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Hey Febi Guibo, I just signed up to this forum guz of your whole story. What an adventure man. I was just wondering if the crank your using is an offset ground OEM crank or is it custom job. Also are you going to continue to use your stock AFM or a custom MAF setup oh and one more thing are you using the stock BMW header or a Superprint 4 into 1. I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions but I'm a detail freak I've been waiting for somone to do this conversion for a long time. I always loved the M42. I think its a well made motor that deserves way more R & D than it gets compared to its big brother the M50. Congrats on the engagement also........
hey man, thanks for signing up...
- the crank is OEM... the end of the crank was shaved about 1mm, and a woodruff was cut for the crank gear
- I have the stock AFM now, and am trying to figure out which way to go in the future
- the exhaust header is stock... it's a very highly quality header, for OEM headers anyway
- thanks for your congrats, Mrs. Guibo is a nice lady for putting up with all this car stuff...
Yeah, truly, when we started this forum, the general consensus was that the M42 had no potential and that our cars were basically econoboxes...
I think the problem is that the M42 looks really small (it is a tiny engine), it's relatively rare for E30s, ergo, very few people trying stuff out or making aftermarket parts, and also american style stoplight-to-stoplight drag racing (I mean, driving) doesn't really put us in the best light.
But, make no mistake, these are real sports cars (in the european sense), and the M42 is a real sports car engine.
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I read about a guy in one of many mags, I think it was Grass Roots, he had an E36M42 with a DASC & a 4 into 1 etc and he used a 3" MAF and tuned it with a piggy back controller like the one sold by BMP and was able to get like 215 WHP. There is always NickG's software tuning. He does all the DASC kits but I'm sure he can do one for your application. Imagine your engine with a DASC with all the goodies. Probably good for 300 WHP. Oh I hope you realise that a bambino is probably next after the fience and that your priorities will change weather you like it or not. Your family will come before the car and the funds for the car get less and less. It'll all be worth it though especially when the little one smiles when ever he or she sees you. Hope I'm not scaring you......
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I just looked at the video of your car on the Metric Mechanic site. WOW very impressive. I've never seen or heard an M42 like that before. Awesome, simply awesome.
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I read about a guy in one of many mags, I think it was Grass Roots, he had an E36M42 with a DASC & a 4 into 1 etc and he used a 3" MAF and tuned it with a piggy back controller like the one sold by BMP and was able to get like 215 WHP. There is always NickG's software tuning. He does all the DASC kits but I'm sure he can do one for your application. Imagine your engine with a DASC with all the goodies. Probably good for 300 WHP. Oh I hope you realise that a bambino is probably next after the fience and that your priorities will change weather you like it or not. Your family will come before the car and the funds for the car get less and less. It'll all be worth it though especially when the little one smiles when ever he or she sees you. Hope I'm not scaring you......
Sam's motor would need new pistons to go witha supercharger at this point. He could possibly push 6 pounds of boost, 9 at the very most, but that would be all. His compresion ratio is pretty high.
I also think that 300 wuld completely destroy the cars charecter. Where Sam is, is awesome and still retains the feel of the car. Putting too much powerin a momentum car, ruins it. His car is what a modded 318is should be. Which is a momentum car that is capable of pulling hard out of corners. On a track, that is a wicked combination.
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I was just wondering if the crank your using is an offset ground OEM crank or is it custom job.
This isn't a topic that really gets brought up in Euro circles, well, BMW at least.
I know some VW guys have done it, and i know of V8 guys that do it. People were doing it to Ford Escorts too.
I have never really looked into it myself, other than researching what it actually is. So Im unsure of what the limits are, and wether many places still practise it.
It would be interesting to see what could be done with the OE crank. wondering if you could take say an m44 crank from 83.5 out to 85-86mm.
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Sam's motor is probably pushing close to what a regular M42 with a DASC is putting out. I'm just saying even with his high compression a DASC with even 6 pounds of boost installed on his motor would be awesome and it wouldn't change the character of the car just magnify it. He'll probably start braking stuff though. Oh and offset grinding a crank is the cheaper way of making a stroker crank cuz a custom made crank cost big money. That stroker 2.1 that Hartge or Alpina made years ago costed a fortune to make as they not only made custom forged crank, rods and pistons they also glued a plate to the top of the block to make it taller, then installed liners just to not upset the precious rod length to crank stroke ratio. This also included installing a longer timing chain. $$$$$$$$$$$.
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the DASC has a much fatter torque curve than my engine... but yeah, who wouldn't love more powaaaah...! maybe supercharge in a couple of years...
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Hey Febi how do you drive your car in Manhattan or better yet where the heck do you park it. I used to live on Long Island, having recentley moved to Florida and I used to drive to the city on weekends sometimes and it just sucked trying to find a park and my driving style progressively changed the closer I got to the city for the worst. Sorry off topic.......
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yeah, NYC sux for cars... I used to park up under the MTA tracks in harlem, there's a parking lot there with a 24 hour attendent, but I'm moving to brooklyn next week and got a spot behind my bldg.
this town is really murder on cars, no joke... the roads here are really terrible, and the traffic neutralizes mods etc. I wanna get out of the 5 boroughs in the worst way, get a real house ...and a tall garage... with a lift!
anyway...
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Has the question ever been answered why 19LB injectors are bad for our motors?
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hi... sorry for the delay... I just read back through my (largely incoherent) posts and the deal was like this (I am not an expert on this, but this is how it was explained to me)
- I upgraded to 24# injectors and 3.5 bar fuel regulator
- There's two different types of injectors... our motronic system wants high impedance, saturation type injectors... the 4 pintle low impedence ones I guess aren't compatible (as was explained to me).
(eg, the issue wasn't the capacity of the injectors, but the impedence)
I may move this to a new thread if someone more knowledgeable can chime in.
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im interested in more details
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febi's spot on, there are high and low impedance injectors and our standard injectors are high impedance, and the motonic will require high impedance injectors if you swap as low impedance ones I expect would require some form of current limiting - resistors, pwm etc.
you can find high impedance 4 pintle injectors, I have 23.7lb 4 pintle high impedance injectors in my 2.1.
Personally I still believe on a standard 1.8 you will not need larger injectors, and that the stockers are the best injector for the job. If anyone wants to post up aftermarket injector p/nos I can check their impedance, flow rate etc.
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I don't think that's true. I calculated max hp the stock injectors could support and I think it was a bit over 140. If they're dirty, not even that much.
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So, what is the deal with the resonance chamber intake manifold? From the pics it looks like the stock upper manifold was chopped & had these custom endcaps welded on? Any info on this thing would be great...looks like a hell of a deal.
The injector thing: the impedance part is correct. Our stockers are 20.5# @ 3BAR correct? I was one of those that mistakenly put in some S50 injectors (4 pintle). Supposedly they are 17.5# ones. Being that the car is not running super lean, that must be at 2.5BAR. At 3BAR they should be right about the same as the M42 stockers. Can anyone confirm?
Anyway sweet project Febi. I am most jealous.
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I don't think that's true. I calculated max hp the stock injectors could support and I think it was a bit over 140. If they're dirty, not even that much.
How did you calculate that? I have the bosch p/nos and flow rates and have done all me sums! They are more than adequate for an M42 by most conventional calculations. Not only did they provide 13:1 AFRs all the way through at WOT on my 1.8 (verified on the rollers and by my LC1 wideband), in fact they were providing 13:1 AFRs on my 2.1 with ITBs without giving up, although the PW was getting pretty long.
bmwman, give me the part nos. for those injectors you have - obv we only get the euro S50 over here so i couldn't tell you their flowrate.
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HAve anyone actually dynoed these strokers?
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HAve anyone actually dynoed these strokers?
It has been G-tech'ed, but that is all I think, but I can assure you it is about what they claim.
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It would be great if someone who has actually done the whole process succesfully would create a list of part needed in order to create a m42 stroker. Also info about prices of the parts and where to get them would be great.
At this stage the it is very difficult to obtain that information. Of course not many projects are finished, but it surely would help others in order to start own stroker project.
Then sticky it.
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It would be great if someone who has actually done the whole process succesfully would create a list of part needed in order to create a m42 stroker. Also info about prices of the parts and where to get them would be great.
At this stage the it is very difficult to obtain that information. Of course not many projects are finished, but it surely would help others in order to start own stroker project.
Then sticky it.
Why not just buy the motor from MM? I know it's more than DIY but then you can be pretty sure it runs correctly. It's not a matter of just getting a bunch of parts from anywhere, MM machines certain parts to improve oil flow also. And you need the software I developed for that motor also, you can't use any other chip.
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Why not just buy the motor from MM? I know it's more than DIY but then you can be pretty sure it runs correctly. It's not a matter of just getting a bunch of parts from anywhere, MM machines certain parts to improve oil flow also. And you need the software I developed for that motor also, you can't use any other chip.
Do MM ship to Finland`? What about guarantee?
And the Ecu can be done by a specialist.
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Do MM ship to Finland`? What about guarantee?
And the Ecu can be done by a specialist.
You would have to talk to them about the warranty and shipping.
I do know they will back up their work, and A LOT of planning and work went into this motor. It is not something you can do on your own. Sure you could stroke and bore it, guess on a good cam, but you will not get that high of rpm reliably, or the faster response that engine has, or the strength, or...
I would honestly say their engine is better than factory. Everything that can be done to ensure a long life has been done. They even fixed some problems that were built into the engine. I doubt they would have let Febi take it fresh and drive half-way across the country right away if they did not believe in it.
I saw how it was made, saw how it performed, and saw how much thought was put into it, it is a work of art. Worth every penny, I just wish I could afford it. I have also seen and dealt with a few people who have the 325/328 strokers they have, they are monsters.
Very few engine builders could pull this engine off like they have. There is no way a backyard mechanic could do it. Maybe if you had the time, a huge supply of M42's, tens of thousands of dollars, and a whole machine shop, just maybe you could do it. Maybe...
The rods are custom, just for them.
The pistons are custom, just for them.
The bearings are custom, just for them.
Many surfaces are coated.
Parts are shortened, lightened, reshaped, drilled for oil passages, unshrouded, ground smooth...
I think EVERY part in the engine, has been modified or custom made.
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well i really do think he can hit 13's with 210hp at the crank. he just needs some slicks or drag radials and a killer launch. if a 260hp mustang GT with 4.56 gears, slicks and exhaust can go 12.8-12.9 (a few guys back in the early 2000's from mustangworld.com were) then a 210hp 2400lb E30 should be able to do high 13's. if you check with a simple E/T calculator the physics work out.