M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: e30Andym42 on March 18, 2008, 02:46:45 PM
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Hey, I'm Andy, I recently bought my 1991 BMW 318is with 98,000 miles on it. It is in extremely good shape aside from a very minute engine oil leak (one drop may hit the ground once a week or less). When I got it, quite a few hoses were cracked and worn, and I have replaced the ones I have noticed in the air intake system, which include the large rubber air intake hose that goes from the mass air flow sensor to the intake manifold, the hose that is connected to that one that travels under the intake manifold (which didn't hook up correctly at first because I didn't realize I had re-installed the air filter housing incorrectly after I replaced the filter.....and made an idiot decision to attempt to improvise to make it connect, and ran the car 2 times before I fixed the air filter housing's placement. Before I did fixed this, my car ran like crap and couldn't hold a steady idle, but the second time I started it with a new improvisation, the idle seemed fine, so i drove it around the block and it basically died every time i stepped on the clutch long enough to return to idle), and one that connects from the front of the engine to under the intake manifold. Their part numbers are 13-71-1-734-385, 13-41-1-721-909, and 11-15-1-717-858. Now the car runs perfect, or so I think, except for this noise that the engine makes which I believe to be coming out from under the valve cover. Unfortunately, I can't remember if the car made this noise before I bought it or not. I made a video of the car making this noise, which it does at all times, regardless of temperature. Any help is greatly appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWIny3cKHrg
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I would consider the timing chain tensioner... that is always a possibility.
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thats the timing chain tensioner. I know , I just changed mine last tues and she made the same sound for about a minute. sounds like a diesel right? you need to replace it as soon as possible. try bavarian autosport http://www.bavauto.com ok. they have all the parts you need. good luck!
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thx alot
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ok now I have a problem...I called up the dealer and told them I need a timing chain tensioner, they said, "which one?"....So thats my question, do I need the rail or the cylindrical type thing? This is beyond me >.<
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You want the chain tensioner piston: 11311743187
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ok thank god...thats what i got...thx
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replaced the tensioner now...but after reading some topics, i fear for my timing chain. i definitely dnt want it to cause any problems. i didn't take the valve cover off or anything during the tensioner job, so i have no clue what condition my timing chain parts are in. during my next oil change in about 3,000 miles...roughly a year maybe, i'm going to pull the pan to check for loose bolts, etc. i'll check for bits of the chain in the pan at that time, but at 99,600 miles, what risk do i run of replacing the tensioner and not doing anything to the timing chain components. in other words, is replacing the timing chain tensioner on a 17 year old, 99,600 mile timing chain a problem?
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Had the same noise a week ago show up, did the research and concluded that it was the tensioner. Replaced the tensioner and the sound stopped briefly and then was back again, I tried to get the car home and I did not make it. I have the car at the shop, but am assuming the top end is $#%^@$. So it may be the end of my 318IC days.....It sounded eaxactly like the video clip....I got rid of my 325ic because I drive a lot and was always worried about the timing belt....did have faith in the chain....but got me in the end. The car only has 120K on it....so I guess it may have been neglected before I bought it!
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Ok now I'm scared sh1tl3ss. The noise has come back as far as i can tell. The car has been sitting for somewhere around a month now, the last time I drove it I got 2 tickets, and then it sat in my driveway, and was started here and there to move it about the garage in the past week. The valence job is finally done, and I started it to put it back in its spot, and I did so, and let it run for a bit to charge the battery a small amount and to get rid of some of the carbon deposits. I came back outside and sat in my car, and revved it a few times mainly because i missed the joy of driving it. Not sure at which point the noise started, but the car was now warmed up for a while, and I could tell the timing chain was noisy again. I don't know what to think at this point, possibly due to the fact that my brain doesn't want to consider the expense and the large, complicated chore of replacing the timing chain, guide rails, etc. Please tell me this is not the next repair I'll be doing on the car :(. Just as I get a taste of a completely fixed car......
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maybe its not chain related? hydrolifters? bearings?
i dont want to scare you, but maybe you could post another video so we can hear that sound? or is it exactly the same sound as your original post?
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I'll try to snag the camera and post another video, oh and after another startup to help identify the situation with the noise, I've come up with that it only sounds if the engine is warmed up. When the engine is started cold, it sounds completely normal, as far as I know what that sounds like, and the noise gradually becomes more noticeable and louder as the engine warms up. When fully warmed up, the noise sounds fairly similar if not exactly the same as before I changed the tensioner, but a fair amount quieter. I can't tell exactly, I haven't had a large amount of experience with any engine, and I've had no experience with engines that consist of a timing chain. I'll try to take a video of the engine when cold and when its warmed up.
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Drop your lower oil pan. Its quick and easy to check the bolts. Don't wait a year. Also, stop buying parts from the dealer. Ur paying too much.
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How on earth am I supposed to obtain a timing chain tensioner for my 318is without going to the dealer? And clips for the front lip? And some hoses? Don't quite follow you there...anyways, I noticed that I have a problem getting a couple videos and something that really frustrates me. I am on a tight time schedule right now, and whenever I am in this scenario I am doomed to extreme frustration (when I can't find something in a small amount of time). The point is, I can't find the camera and HOW FORTUNATE that nobody in the family knows where it is. :mad: I have the crappy piece of crap camera that sucks and cant make videos, a camera that is o.k. in quality, but no cord to connect it to the computer, and the cord to connect the good camera I can't find. I am growing increasingly irritated with the lack of organization around here!
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http://bmaparts.com/
Talk to Patrick, and make sure to get your m42club.com discount ;)
There are other parts places on the web and elsewhere as well.
From what I remember, you were getting really bad chain noise. Tensioner is probably not going to cut it, you'll probably have to do the same thing. Did you pull the valve cover to check the sprockets and/or drop the pan to look for carnage?
Edit: meant whole thing, not same thing.
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Cheaper
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/catalog/shopcart/BE30/POR_BE30_ENGcam_pg3.htm
cheaper still
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?gkw=BMW+318IS+Timing+Chain+Tensioner+Piston&gad=CPvVo5gCEgiM5kBgtQXq4Rjtn_T8AyCXvNMT&makeid=800003@BMW&modelid=1011407@318IS&year=1994&cid=20@Engine%20Parts,%20Seals%20%26%20Gaskets&gid=5727@Timing%20Chain%20Tensioner%20Piston
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Thanks for the sites, I'll definitely check them out next time I need something, like fog lenses, or.....whatever fixes this current problem. And no, I haven't pulled the pan or removed the valve cover. I've heard the valve cover is a pain to remove? Also, it's not like I would know what on earth to look for. I just noticed it two nights ago, and I am in no technical hurry to define and fix the problem, as it just sits in my driveway, but I cannot stand the thought that there is something wrong with it. I fix the problems that come along as I have time to do so, but would like to know what they are as soon as possible so I can get the parts and get working on it whenever I have spare time.
If you think pulling the lower pan and removing the valve cover and inspecting the sprockets, etc., then I will do so, but keep in mind as of right now I don't have a clue how to do either of them, nor what to look for, except in the pan which shouldn't contain bolts or pieces of timing chain. All I know is:
Removing the Lower Pan:
- drain oil
- jack up the car
- look for bolts that hold the pan on
- remove and inspect
- tighten loose bolts
- put lower pan back
- bolt it on
- lower car
Removing the Valve Cover:
- remove plastic piece with "BMW" on it
- look for bolts holding valve cover on
- remove and inspect timing chain components (what's good, what's bad...pictures would be great)
- put valve cover back
- bolt on
- put plastic piece back on
Am I close? I have no idea where the bolts are/how many, though.
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These should help
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/my318is_pic_oilfailure.php
http://bmw.e30tuner.com/articles_vchc.php
Good luck
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Hey guys. If you're looking for parts you may want to try Northside Imports in Lincolnwood, IL - 800.247.2491 - They'll ship. I used to work there (delivered parts to the southside) so if you want say Paul sent you. Dial Danny x1232 or Greg x1242. The chain tensioner 11311743187 is $28. They also have locations in New Jersey and So Cal, but I don't have info on those.
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O.k. found the camera, which my sister said she didn't have BUT WAS A LIE as it was in her car. Anyways, heres the video of the cold start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDwRWFa7gFY
And heres the video when the car was warmed up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTLgCFCHQRQ
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Hey man i had that same problem about 3 weeks ago. My oil ws crazy low and that same noise came. It was my timming chain. It broke on my way to work, it mashed my valves up real bad and i am doing a complete rebuild of my engine. http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5533 There is a copy of where my car is now. I would def do what it takes to fix the problem before it gets real bad. Look around here and try to locate the threads with the info you need to fix it. Good Luck man. I am sure everyone here will be a big help to you as they were to me.
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that does sound like a very noisy chain.
Also just out of interest - what is up with your engine fan - is it just me or does it seem like it's spinning pretty slowly. If it is spinning real slow, then maybe you have bad water pump bearings.
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It's the camera, I noticed that too as I recorded it, looking at the screen. The camera doesn't record fast enough on its current setting to pick up the fast rotation of the fan.
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i've experienced it b4.... changed the tensioner as well as other related parts...including the chain.....i was told that m44 tensioner is more reliable... but sorry bro... i dun have the part no.
....i was a bit frustrated when i found out that there was another noise after i changed the timing chain.....guess what??? it was my m40 gb!!!...changed the front section and the noise dissapear...
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i've experienced it b4.... changed the tensioner as well as other related parts...including the chain.....i was told that m44 tensioner is more reliable... but sorry bro... i dun have the part no.
....i was a bit frustrated when i found out that there was another noise after i changed the timing chain.....guess what??? it was my m40 gb!!!...changed the front section and the noise dissapear...
You can't get the M42 tensioner anymore...it was replaced with the M44 tensioner.
I personally would start taking things apart to get a better look at the chain and gears. If you're chain is worn enough no tensioner will fix the issue - you'll need a new chain and all the gears. PITA job for a newbie, but if you trash the head you will easily spend 3x as much on repairs.
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O.k. what is a "gb", and what does PITA mean? My guess is something along the lines of complicated. But I sure do realize that the job would be very complex and such, but if the chain and components need to be replaced, what other choice do I have? I'm not going to pay a million dollars to have somebody else do it, besides the fact that I am running out of money.... Also, I have seen plenty of tutorials and links to the process and if I run into trouble, I feel confident there are plenty of knowledgeable people on this site, and I'm sure I could work my way through it. But of course, I wouldn't attempt it without my father by my side due to the job's complexity.
My parents are going out of town for a week, so I'm not going to attempt anything like this. If I become bored enough and there is a good tutorial out there on removing the valve cover, as I think somebody told me it was complicated? then I will check how it looks in there. It will take more boredom to get me to pull the oil pan and check what pieces are in there, hopefully nothing! If removing the valve cover requires or recommends draining the oil, then if I attempt that I will do the oil pan at the same time. If I don't have much free time, the next time I will be able to check out what's going on is probably Saturday May 17.
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Yeah dude... I know NOTHING about timing chains and such on this car... but I do know that this car uses a fan clutch. The fan clutch should engage more as the temp increases (warmed up), so (asking the experts here), is it not possible that at least some of the noise is from from the clutch trying to engage the fan? It would be consistent with it being noisier when warm, right? Even if not, it's probably worth while to check the clutch engagement (roleld up newspaper thing)... if it don't shred, then you will have to check/replace the clutch anyway. Get that squared away and see where it stands, maybe?
PS:
gb = ?
PITA=pain in the arse
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Taking off the valve cover is super easy man =) Removing the plug wires is the hardest part, just have some tape and a Sharpie on hand so you get the wires back on the right plugs.... You need one of these me thinks:
http://www.amazon.com/BMW-E30-Service-Manual-1984-1990/dp/0837603250/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210346133&sr=8-1
And more importantly for these specific m42 problems, download this!
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182
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I personally would pull the oil pan NOW and see if there are any:
1) loose bolts (common issue for most)
2) any bits or pieces of timing chain guide rails, chain parts or metal fragments
The timing chain guide rails wear down over time and if the chain or components has never been serviced, I'm sure it's now time to service those items.
Like others have said above, it's better to open up the timing cover and check those components underneath rather than just "thinking about it" and then having to deal with a blown head (again common on these M42's if other related maintenance items are not dealt with). If let go and the chain breaks, you will be looking at a major expense depending on how severe the valves will crash into the pistons from a timing chain breakage...
Pulling the valve cover is simple - you can do that in about 30 mins (or less depending on tools, etc). Pull off the BMW cover plate, pull out the spark plug wires, pull the spark plugs and then remove outer valve cover bolts going around the outside edge of the valve cover.
Pulling the oil pan is simple as well - you could easily do this in about 20 mins (or less again depending on tools, if car is on ramps, etc).
The timing cover removal will require the removal of other surrounding parts on the front of the engine, so just look for threads regarding head removal or timing cover/chain removal and these will help you through.