M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine management => Topic started by: velomech on February 17, 2008, 11:05:14 AM
-
I have never chipped anything before so I was pleasantly surpised. I bought a chip on ebay. I got in a discussion with a guy named James who does the chips.
Pro formance is the brand, and I asked him if he could could squeeze me more than the 18-20 his chip was claiiming. It would have been possible if I had removed the cat and o2s.
In the end, I decided safe reliable 10-20 HP would be better. I didnt want to start tearing stuff off. I know from experience that the HP to reliability ratio will bite me in the ass if I press my luck.
I like my car because it starts, runs, and gets great gas mileage.
I'm no idiot, I know chip claims are usually bogus, so for the price I was willing to take a chance.
It arrived in a day or two, and it took less than 15 minutes to install. I have a spare DME "Just in case"
I followed the sparce directions, I mean sparce as in just what I needed, which means less that I would ignore. :)
If I had gotten 10 HP I would be able to tell an improvement by the seat of the pants dyno, but I could tell a more than significan difference. From 3k to 6.5k it pulls like a feind. It definelty goes through the gears a good bit faster. Revs much smoother and took a noticable "powerband" and smoothed it out. I have to say, Im a little shocked about how quickly it goes from 3-6500rpm.
If anyone wants a link to the ebay auction, I will gladly give it to them or post it if it doesnt violate any rules. To me, it is quite possibly the best $50.00 i have ever spent on a car.
Just thought I would share some feedback...
Gas mileage is better. Runs moother, revs a lot faster, Power increase was more than noticable.
Cheers and beers
Hodge
-
Interesting. I've seen this guy's auctions on ebay before. Is this a 91 or 93 octane chip? Maybe I'll give it a try some time.
-
Yeah, it stated 91 or higher octane, Im GA, and we have 93 for premium. Since I noticed better gas mileage with that than regular or mid grade, It's what I was using anyway. Im also thinking of a high flow cat, and K&N airfilter, if anyone has some feedback on those.
My wifes car is a 94 325 auto, mine is faster now...:)
Cheers and beers
Hodge
-
hey velo if they make this for E36s plz shoot a pm over my way :P
-
It arrived in a day or two, and it took less than 15 minutes to install. I have a spare DME "Just in case"
I thought Motronic units are car specific and you could not always swap them around? Maybe that is only for motronics that work with immobilizer units and earlier models can be swapped freely?
-
I thought Motronic units are car specific and you could not always swap them around? Maybe that is only for motronics that work with immobilizer units and earlier models can be swapped freely?
E30 dme's are only engine specific, in that you can put them in any car that has the specific engine it was designed for.
-
Actually mine is a 92 318I, E36.
As long as they have the DME model number, I think it can only be one 6 or 7 out there.
Later
Hodge
-
E30 dme's are only engine specific, in that you can put them in any car that has the specific engine it was designed for.
Great information, thanks! :)
-
I have never chipped anything before so I was pleasantly surpised. I bought a chip on ebay. I got in a discussion with a guy named James who does the chips.
Pro formance is the brand, and I asked him if he could could squeeze me more than the 18-20 his chip was claiiming. It would have been possible if I had removed the cat and o2s.
In the end, I decided safe reliable 10-20 HP would be better. I didnt want to start tearing stuff off. I know from experience that the HP to reliability ratio will bite me in the ass if I press my luck.
I like my car because it starts, runs, and gets great gas mileage.
I'm no idiot, I know chip claims are usually bogus, so for the price I was willing to take a chance.
It arrived in a day or two, and it took less than 15 minutes to install. I have a spare DME "Just in case"
I followed the sparce directions, I mean sparce as in just what I needed, which means less that I would ignore. :)
If I had gotten 10 HP I would be able to tell an improvement by the seat of the pants dyno, but I could tell a more than significan difference. From 3k to 6.5k it pulls like a feind. It definelty goes through the gears a good bit faster. Revs much smoother and took a noticable "powerband" and smoothed it out. I have to say, Im a little shocked about how quickly it goes from 3-6500rpm.
If anyone wants a link to the ebay auction, I will gladly give it to them or post it if it doesnt violate any rules. To me, it is quite possibly the best $50.00 i have ever spent on a car.
Just thought I would share some feedback...
Gas mileage is better. Runs moother, revs a lot faster, Power increase was more than noticable.
Cheers and bee
Hodge
Sorry to say but ButtDyno (tm) usually is not showing correct results since the driver is expecting better results that they are in reality (plasebooo). No pun intended.
I going to test 2 chips on April, so we will se actual results.
-
im ordering one next week and then if i have enough money i will dyno it to see the actual Hp gain. :o
-
This one made enough of a difference, little things are hard to tell, but I think it was closer to the advertised 18-20 Hp increase than I expected.
I have a dyno thats an hour away, he charges $50 for 3 runs on thursday nights...so maybe this thursday night I will have some numbers to back up my butt...
Cheers and beers
Hodge
-
Is this reversible?
-
Yeah, It's really simple. you open up your DME, via the torx screws, then unplug the chip. Plug in the new Higher HP chip, srew it back together, hook up the battery and gun it. Im really happy with the results given the $ I spent.
I suppose you can just replace it with the stock chip if you want to, for emessions or stuff.
I would imagine since my mileage went up a bit, it actually runs more efficiently, but thats not always the case...
Cheers
Hodge
-
This one made enough of a difference, little things are hard to tell, but I think it was closer to the advertised 18-20 Hp increase than I expected.
I have a dyno thats an hour away, he charges $50 for 3 runs on thursday nights...so maybe this thursday night I will have some numbers to back up my butt...
Cheers and beers
Hodge
If you think a chip will give 18-20hp i'm sorry to say but you're off the hook. Maybe 5-10hp max from a cip.
-
This one made enough of a difference, little things are hard to tell, but I think it was closer to the advertised 18-20 Hp increase than I expected.
I have a dyno thats an hour away, he charges $50 for 3 runs on thursday nights...so maybe this thursday night I will have some numbers to back up my butt...
Cheers and beers
Hodge
I agree that 18-20 bhp would be very optimistic. But as you mentioned before, even a 5 bhp gain would be worth the $50 that the chips costs, compared to Turner Motorsport's Conforti tuning that supposedly gives you 12bhp for $250.
I'll be awaiting your dyno result tomorrow before I buy. It would ofcourse be best to have a dyno run before you put the chip in too. With a higher mileage car I guess you'll have some effect loss, and drivetrain. So if you'd get around 120 bhp on the rear wheels that would be good?
-
Im really excited about this. Here is my plan. I have the original stock DME, I plan on doing the first run on it, it only takes about 1 minute to switch them.
I will swap the "Chipped" DME for the second and third runs. That will give all of us some info that we would like to see. A real, concrete, accurate test.
Or I could just do the first and second runs on the new chip, and the last on the stock, that would probablly work out better....
First one I have ever been able to do, so I'm pretty excited. My a$$ says I got an good 10+ HP, so this wil tell me if my senses have been correct my whole life or if Im one of "Those" guys who gets More HP from an oil change!LOL!
The place Im going is Dyno Lab in Marietta GA. Arthur is a nice guy and has thursday night specials 5-10pm. 3 runs for $50...you cant beat that.
So, Ill head out after work.
I will post the results as soon as I get back home, I will have to figure out how to scan the results and then post them, which I have nevver been able to do.
CHeers and beers
Hodge
-
If you think a chip will give 18-20hp i'm sorry to say but you're off the hook. Maybe 5-10hp max from a cip.
I would actually be surprised to see consistent, reliable dyno results showing more than 3-4 peak hp over an M42 powered car that is already properly tuned. Chips are a great upgrade that improve drivability, raise the rev limit, and show gains across the top half of the powerband, but the hp gain is minimal at best.
-
I would actually be surprised to see consistent, reliable dyno results showing more than 3-4 peak hp over an M42 powered car that is already properly tuned. Chips are a great upgrade that improve drivability, raise the rev limit, and show gains across the top half of the powerband, but the hp gain is minimal at best.
Man, from experience, I agree. HP claims are always BS. Thats why I was happy to notice "something". Like homeboy said, and I agree, "Even a 5 HP increase is worth $50". I would be happy with 5, but I really think it's a little more.
I would be REALLY suprised if it was what it claimed, I knew going into a chip to realistically expect 1/4 or so of the claimed HP.
Is there anyone on the board who has chipped their car? have any results to back up any claims? I cant be the first?
Tomorrow nights the test of truth!
Cheers and beers
Hodge
-
I'm definitely interested to see the results. And I do agree that chips are a must (unless you're racing in a class that rules it out) for these cars. I just view it as the last step of a major tune-up -- not a source of major horsepower gains. I installed Mark D 93 octane chip last month and feel it was worth every penny.
-
What do you consider a major tune up? Like I said earlier, This is my first computerized car, I'm used to a "tune" actually squeezing more hp, like on my old 530, I had plugs, jets(webers), timing, adjustabe cam sprocket...all stuff I could fiddle with to get another HP.
BUT, Now I own a computerized E36, aside from a chip and trying out some different plugs and stuff, what else can I do? What else is there that I can fine tune?
Any advice would be great....
peace and grease
Hodge
-
What do you consider a major tune up? Like I said earlier, This is my first computerized car, I'm used to a "tune" actually squeezing more hp, like on my old 530, I had plugs, jets(webers), timing, adjustabe cam sprocket...all stuff I could fiddle with to get another HP.
BUT, Now I own a computerized E36, aside from a chip and trying out some different plugs and stuff, what else can I do? What else is there that I can fine tune?
Any advice would be great....
peace and grease
Hodge
I purchased my car a couple of months ago. It ran very well, but I went ahead and did the following: fuel filter, new plugs, Magnecor wires, K&N drop in air filter, synthetic oil. Then I added the chip. I should also put synthetic ATF in the tranny and syn. in the diff*. I didn't change the 02 sensor as the car runs well and gets good gas mileage.
*Grassroots Motorsports did a project series on a then-new 318ti in the late 90s. They switched out all of the fluids for synthetics. Although they gained less than 1 hp peak, they picked up 5 hp at 4200 rpm. A good investment in my opinion. They also picked up 1.5 hp by switching to Magnecor wires (remember, the wires they replaced were new). More recently they did a 318is project series and picked up 6hp just by switching out the wires (obviously the wires they discarded were not functioning well). That article can be found here:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/images/bmw_pdfs/may06_318is.pdf
-
Thats the kind of info I need. Right now Im using some "questionable plug wires" and dino oil. I was thinking of going to syn. I have a 94 low mileage motor I just put in it.
As for the tranny, you stated ATF, are you running an auto? Is there a recomdation for 5 speed gearbox? I just put new dif oil in, so Im good there.
In a fairlane, when you have a 390/406 with dual quads and 390HP, 10-20 hp and better wires dont do much, and I could care less, but in 140 HP car, where the options are limited as far as cheap reliable HP, I'll take every single little HP I can get...
peace and grease
Hodge
-
The 5 speed manual also takes ATF. To be sure theres a big sticker under the bell housing indicating what kind of oil to use.
-
I purchased my car a couple of months ago. It ran very well, but I went ahead and did the following: fuel filter, new plugs, Magnecor wires, K&N drop in air filter, synthetic oil. Then I added the chip. I should also put synthetic ATF in the tranny and syn. in the diff*. I didn't change the 02 sensor as the car runs well and gets good gas mileage.
*Grassroots Motorsports did a project series on a then-new 318ti in the late 90s. They switched out all of the fluids for synthetics. Although they gained less than 1 hp peak, they picked up 5 hp at 4200 rpm. A good investment in my opinion. They also picked up 1.5 hp by switching to Magnecor wires (remember, the wires they replaced were new). More recently they did a 318is project series and picked up 6hp just by switching out the wires (obviously the wires they discarded were not functioning well). That article can be found here:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/images/bmw_pdfs/may06_318is.pdf
I'm very pleasantly surprised to hear hp gains from wires. I've always thought this was BS. But now thinking back to my other interest, hifi, I certainly know that wires have a huge impact on sound, so why not spark. Seems like wires have been added to the list :)
Can't wait to hear the results tomorrow!
-
I am really curious to see the results of the dino as well. In addition to the Pro Formance chip there are several others on eBay (search "e30 chip") that are unbelievably inexpensive. I am more interested in looking at how the torque/hp curves compare to stock than the max HP gain.
Do you guys think these guys are selling Dinan/MarkD/Conforti/BMP clones or do you think they have created their own chip?
-
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Oh man, what a shock!
1st, can I email someone a file so they can resize it and post it, seeing as how I cant figure it out?
2nd, I have just got beck from the DYNO. Im impressed with this car, but not so much the chip.
I decided to run the first two runs with the chipped DME, then the last one with the stock DME...
First Run, 121.3 at 6000RPM, I didnt want to rev the shit out of it.
Second Run, 122.4 at 6300 RPM, I didnt want rev the shit out of it.
Third Run and this is the kicker, stock DME, 118.9 at 6900 RPM, I revved the shit out of it looking for the rev limiter...
MAx torque was 109.6
So, the chip got me around four HP. Im defiently gonna let James know, maybe he can do something. We'll see. HArd to believe that much HP makes the car feel a little quicker though.
Cheers and Beers
Hodge
-
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2134/2282712587_87a8e5c6d6_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2015/2283532000_344c4776c3_o.jpg)
I thought stock redline was at 6500rpm. Seems odd that it let you rev all the way to 6900. I wouldn't be disappointed in this chip. It moved peak HP down in the rev range to a more usable 6300rpm. If we had both before and after graphs we would probably see a nice torque increase throughout the rev range. To me mid range torque is far more important than peak power.
-
thanks! Check yer mail...
Cheers
hodge
-
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Oh man, what a shock!
1st, can I email someone a file so they can resize it and post it, seeing as how I cant figure it out?
2nd, I have just got beck from the DYNO. Im impressed with this car, but not so much the chip.
I decided to run the first two runs with the chipped DME, then the last one with the stock DME...
First Run, 121.3 at 6000RPM, I didnt want to rev the shit out of it.
Second Run, 122.4 at 6300 RPM, I didnt want rev the shit out of it.
Third Run and this is the kicker, stock DME, 118.9 at 6900 RPM, I revved the shit out of it looking for the rev limiter...
MAx torque was 109.6
So, the chip got me around four HP. Im defiently gonna let James know, maybe he can do something. We'll see. HArd to believe that much HP makes the car feel a little quicker though.
Cheers and Beers
Hodge
Thanks for posting these numbers. Looks like the chip did what it was supposed to do. Overall, the numbers look pretty good. If you account for a 15 percent driveline loss, you're making 140.76 hp at the crank (using your dyno best of 122.4 hp). Not bad considering a stock, but brand new e36 with an m42 was rated at 138hp from the factory.
-
IM happy, the cars scoots!
It's one of those cars that you can drive the shit out of! I was hoping the final printout would have all three runs on it, but it didnt. So, I might be off by a small bit on that info,I had to look at the readout a from a few feet away and squint, and remember it.
Im still happy with how it runs, and I still wan to email James with the info, just to see hwat his take is on it. I lost my laptop at the house to a virus or something so my access is spotty right now...
The guy in the photo is Hari, a guys from bimmerforums testing his 92 535, it made 188 rwhp, and it was built to the hilt. At one time he was making 199 to the wheels. He was impresse with the m42's performance.
CHeers
Hodge
-
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/Stefplus/Banc%20de%20puissance/IMG_1874.jpg)
318is with 210.000km's, chipped by Belgian tuner PowerPlus Engineering:
148,72bhp @ 5834 rpm ( std : 136bhp @ 6000 rpm )
187,8Nm @ 5312 rpm ( std: 175Nm @ 4600 rpm )
I would like to see some results from the MarkD chip, as I'm doubting between this chip and MarkD's chip.
-
Very nice. Do you have the chart so we could take a look at the curve? Also, what octane fuel is the chip tuned for?
-
148,72bhp @ 5834 rpm ( std : 136bhp @ 6000 rpm )
187,8Nm @ 5312 rpm ( std: 175Nm @ 4600 rpm )
WOW! Is that unadjusted wheel HP? If so my hat is off to you.
-
no wheelhp, crankhp. The test rig defines how big the hp loss from the gearbox and such is, by letting the car freewheelin when comming back from 6000rpm, clutch pressed in.
I can ask for a chart, but I doubt I can find one. I think it's tuned for mainly 93 us octane
-
144 hp, just a cat-back mod