M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: swiss318is on January 25, 2008, 03:41:21 AM
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well..!!sometimes it is boring so i decided to start a new thread about building up my racecar!its a freetime project and every idea about the suspension, brakes, engine (m42b18) and stuff are welcome. there are no limits.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/24012008006.jpg)
on the red car i already removed the engine, drivetrain, the interieur and the suspension
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on this pic you see a bit of the main problem of the car..! somebody crashed into the car, so the back is nearly destroyed and the truck is a bit shorter. also a small damage in the front on the left side
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/240120080082.jpg)
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i found a few pictures long time ago in the internet... i have the same idea: replace the back, the doors and the front with fiberglass. have a look... its gonna be a big project:
first i will make a aerodynamic shape out of foam
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/Foto_003.jpg)
with the help of this shape i can make a fiberglassbody
then, i will cut the sheetmetals on the back
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/achter-las-r.jpg)
at the end it will look like that
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/achter-spat-r-2.jpg)
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what ideas do you have for a car like that? what do you think about? i will post pics of the heavy damages.
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perhaps a turbo engine and a bodywork like an old racecar?
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/4b3076a8f6.gif)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/02r_group5.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/320T_1.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/320lT.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/1972bmwdtmgrp5turbo.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/1053033333pg.jpg)
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the solution for the front end ot the car
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/untitled.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/untitledjj.jpg)
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the solution for the front end ot the car
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/untitled.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/untitledjj.jpg)
DAMN, this engine is only 2 inches off the ground :eek: Are you really going to do this or something like it?
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well. if i look to my m42b18 engine and the gearbox...?? im not sure if i can put the engine that low...?! even with drysump i am not sure! i am planning to lower the engine as much as possible, thats for sure but at the moment i have no plan how to!?and how low
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post your ideas about a racecar on basis of an e30 318is with an m42b18 engine! please dont talk about m3 or m5 engine swaps... thats not the idea!
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how the front suspension will look like...like an dtm e30 m3
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/1193409873_IMG_0005.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/pic-4.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/vorderachse-1.jpg)
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wow! thats a cool project!! i want more. for the body work i'd say an old WTCC style would do nice
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Put the driver as far back and to the right side as you can. Extend the pedals and steering column to compensate. Make a dash that covers it all up. Put the battery in right rear and as much stuff as you can on the right side of the car. Make everything on the left side such as steering shafts, pedals, gauges, etc. as light as possible. Try for 52% rear weight and as close to 50/50 side weight as you can get. Then use ballast if needed where you think it will do the most good. Move the engine and trans to the rear and to the right as in post 7 above. Driveshaft, and differential to the right a few inches. Use corresponding longer and shorter axles and modify the suspension crossmember accordingly. This will give even more room to get the driver toward the center of the car. No limits? You asked.
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It is amazing how they can mount the engine so low and far back like that. Aerodynamics are also another area where you could find huge performance improvements. Maybe use modern day DTM cars as an example... huge splitter, flat bottom, rear diffusor, front dive planes, fender vents, big rear wing, and those flaps behind the rear wheels. They even sculpt special mirrors.
http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/040805/header2.jpg
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some pics of the damages of the car.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/26012008005.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/26012008004.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/26012008002.jpg)
the back is folded on the side because of the impact
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/26012008001.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/26012008003.jpg)
the damages dont look so bad on the pics, but you have problems with closing the trunk lid.. and i had some problems removing the spare tire...!!
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i hope to be able to weld a rollcage like in the picture..! with some nice sidepipes!
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/10_04.jpg)
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I would also try to build the car to be easily convertible to run in as many classes as possible. I don't really know what series you could shoot for in Switzerland but the proposed body modifications would put you in a class over here where you would probably be running against all out tube frame cars here.
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i am planning to use the car for hillclimbing...!! and to make a few rounds on the "Nordschleife". i have to talk with the guy who is modifying my cylinder head. they build some very fast m3e30 for race series in germany. i need a reglement and then i can see whats allowed or not.
but the major problem we have in switzerland is that we dont have any racecircuit!!!allowed are slaloms, hillclimbing... thats it!! due to a heavy crash in le-mans back in the 50s-60s where a couple of people died, the government stopped racing in switzerland!
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fasten your seatbelts....!!!!
hillclimbing in switzerland looks like that:
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/th_2005AnzereFleury.jpg) (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/?action=view¤t=2005AnzereFleury.flv)
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Put the driver as far back and to the right side as you can. Extend the pedals and steering column to compensate. Make a dash that covers it all up. Put the battery in right rear and as much stuff as you can on the right side of the car. Make everything on the left side such as steering shafts, pedals, gauges, etc. as light as possible. Try for 52% rear weight and as close to 50/50 side weight as you can get. Then use ballast if needed where you think it will do the most good. Move the engine and trans to the rear and to the right as in post 7 above. Driveshaft, and differential to the right a few inches. Use corresponding longer and shorter axles and modify the suspension crossmember accordingly. This will give even more room to get the driver toward the center of the car. No limits? You asked.
wow!!!! YEARS of work!!!! i was thinking pretty much the same... i think i have to cut the firewall and the transmission tunnel, then i have to relocate(put upwards) the rear mounting points for the rear crossmember.. and the same in the front. so i can lower the car. they do the same with the wtcc cars. the suspension stays on the same place only the body is lowered.
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pics of an older opel astra
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/opel-4.jpg)
the seat is near the rear axle
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/opel-3.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/00_Opel_Cockpit_Modena.jpg)
puuu...! what a sick idea to build an extreme racecar! ;-)
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puuu...! what a sick idea to build an extreme racecar! ;-)
you're so right! makes me want to find an old e21 and build a race car too... maybe (probably) as a long term project
here's a link that might interest you
http://www.davidmcintyre.org/
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yep, i found that site long time ago!but thanks anyway!cool things there
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does anybody have some fiberglass or carbon doors?hood?lid?fenders? or other stuff on his car? if so, what brands do you have?
has somebody a rollcage welded in his 318is? pics?
what steel quality is used to build a rollcage?
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here you will find some carbon fiber parts, at least the hood for e30, the rest is for 2002tii i think, shipping might be a little too much though
http://bmw2002.com/
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has somebody a rollcage welded in his 318is? pics?
what steel quality is used to build a rollcage?
The blue one is mine, the red one belongs to my friend:
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3639/p2072175rv0.th.jpg) (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072175rv0.jpg) (http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/7739/p2072176qm2.th.jpg) (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072176qm2.jpg) (http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2508/p2072179sg9.th.jpg) (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072179sg9.jpg) (http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/2858/p2072180dd9.th.jpg) (http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072180dd9.jpg) (http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2688/p2072188qk8.th.jpg) (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072188qk8.jpg)(http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/60/p2072173xr2.th.jpg) (http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072173xr2.jpg)
(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4217/p2082197id0.th.jpg) (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2082197id0.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5056/p2082198so5.th.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2082198so5.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9258/p2072194vd5.th.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072194vd5.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3055/p2072195dq7.th.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2072195dq7.jpg)(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/1553/p2082199hg6.th.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2082199hg6.jpg)
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7561/dsc00204yb0.th.jpg) (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00204yb0.jpg)(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7376/dsc00206ca5.th.jpg) (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00206ca5.jpg)(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4324/dsc00207qo2.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00207qo2.jpg)(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2548/zdj281cie017df0rd8.th.jpg) (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zdj281cie017df0rd8.jpg)(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1347/zdj281cie016pb3ug5.th.jpg) (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zdj281cie016pb3ug5.jpg)
I can take some more pictures of the blue one if you want.
Both the rollcages are made according to Appendix J of FIA regulations, which means the material is a cold drawn, seamless, unalloyed carbon steel (max. 0,3% of carbon)
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YES!!!thats what i am talking about!next thing will be to buy some kilometers of steel!! how did you bend the tubes??popeye?
hows the trunk looking? what about the sunroof? do you replace it with something?
by the way, good job!! cool pics! thanks!
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what about the weight of the rollcage?? +/-?
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No idea how the pipes have been bended. I've had the rollcage done by a workshop.
My sunroof has been cut out and welded.
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4566/dscf2438jd4.th.jpg) (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf2438jd4.jpg)(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1430/szyberwzmocnionycobyblamp9.th.jpg) (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=szyberwzmocnionycobyblamp9.jpg)(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9089/wgniotynadachuzjechanend0.th.jpg) (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wgniotynadachuzjechanend0.jpg)
My friend did it different way. He had cut out part of a roof from a non-sunroof E30 and glued it on the top with car-window glue. It stick properly.
The trunk:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7571/p3110116xp7.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6392/p3110118st2.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5294/p3110121ie1.jpg
Some more pictures of the cage:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3987/p1212159ps7.th.jpg) (http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1212159ps7.jpg) (http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/253/p1212161rw0.th.jpg) (http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1212161rw0.jpg) (http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4241/p1212162sn7.th.jpg) (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1212162sn7.jpg) (http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/773/p1212165sw0.th.jpg) (http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1212165sw0.jpg)
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/808/p3110139yb6.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5606/p3110138kt7.jpg
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Weight is ~50kg I suppose
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nice, nice!! i am thinking about to make a carbon air-inlet on the roof instead of the sunroof! to save some weight! go to "s42 race engine" i took this pics last week! i have a lot of ideas for a rollcage, but i have never seen one in an 318is e30.
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does anybody have some fiberglass or carbon doors?hood?lid?fenders? or other stuff on his car? if so, what brands do you have?
has somebody a rollcage welded in his 318is? pics?
what steel quality is used to build a rollcage?
http://www.pesch.cz/bmw/bmw-e30 Check this out! A guy from Bulgaria ordered these from the CZ and they are dirt cheap!
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WOW!!! Prices?!?!? but what about the quality?? does it fit perfect? damn language i cant read and i dont understand a word... i only see pictures!
thanks anyway!!
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Well the quality, I don't know yet, but as soon as they get to Bulgaria I'll let you know. As for prices:
1 x M3 E30 front hood (80 euro) 80
1 x M3 E30 front fenders (left,right) (130 euro) 130
1 x E30 back (70 euro) 70
something like that!
You could write them an e-mail, they should speak English I guess!
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thanks!i hope the quality isnt as low as the price ... ;-)
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The blue one is mine, the red one belongs to my friend:
I can take some more pictures of the blue one if you want.
Both the rollcages are made according to Appendix J of FIA regulations, which means the material is a cold drawn, seamless, unalloyed carbon steel (max. 0,3% of carbon)
what about the suspension? wheels? fiberglass parts?
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what about the suspension? wheels? fiberglass parts?
Suspension depends on the setup.
Mine is fitted with Bilstein B8 shocks and H&R springs at it's going to stay so for some time. I think at the moment the red one has Bilstein B6 and springs from e30 325 for gravel rallies. For tarmac he also uses H&R springs and different shocks I suppose.
We use various wheels depending on the occasion, mostly stock bmw/bbs 14'' and 15''. No fibreglass parts planned so far. I'm not even sure if the technical requirements allow that.
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ok, mostly stock in this case...
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the 5 points of the car
NR1: turbo m42b18 engine as close to the s42 as possible!
NR2: M3E30 DTM suspension setup front and rear
NR3: full rollcage
NR4: bodywork e21 group 5 '80 style
NR5: bbs rims single nut
what do you think about this setup?
more or less like the picture below...
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thats going to be a crazy nice car!
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i will invite you to switzerland to touch the car... :-)
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does anybody have some clean shots of this old racing cars? from the side, front, back, upside, downside...??
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i dont think that anybody have construction plans of this old racing cars??? other drawings???
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http://www.tunerzine.com/view_article/car_feature/race-bred-bmw
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WOW!!thats cool...!! BUT the exhaust??!!have a look on that... ridiculous !!!!
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the 5 points of the car
NR1: turbo m42b18 engine as close to the s42 as possible!
NR2: M3E30 DTM suspension setup front and rear
NR3: full rollcage
NR4: bodywork e21 group 5 '80 style
NR5: bbs rims single nut
what do you think about this setup?
more or less like the picture below...
What are your plans for aerodynamics? Any lightweight panels or components?
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What are your plans for aerodynamics? Any lightweight panels or components?
of course every bodypiece is made of fiberglass and where it makes sense of carbon (interior, covers etc.) aerodynamics?? hm..?!i think i will begin with the rollcage... its a long way to the aerodynamics...
not more then 1000kg fully wet and with driver.
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proper rims for you: http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewlisting.php?view=15467
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yep. some rims like that. but a lot wider for the rear..!
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did anybody stitch weld his car?? i have started with that... cool job. :-(
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/stitching.gif)
the pic is from a honda, i think..
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some pictures of a french guy who has welded his e30
(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3520/dscn0167zb0.jpg)
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8425/dscn0165kd0.jpg)
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6268/dscn0170nc8.jpg)
(http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6653/dscn0171qk1.jpg)
I have planed to do the same in mine
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thanks for the pics!
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/15022008009.jpg)
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what about driftcar modifications???
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I would urge caution and studying up on unibody welding and repair before doing this. The sheet metal is heat treated and improper welding - especially putting too much heat into a large area or all the way along a seam - can result in a structure that is actually weaker than before. There is a heat effected zone around a weld that can make the metal very brittle. It can lose it's flexibility and crack. The reason unibodys are built using spot welds is to minimize the heat effected zone.
I saw a Datsun 240Z crack along the frame rails in the early 1970's due to this. Entire seams had been welded. The car was salvaged and the tub sold for scrap.
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aha...!!! but that was 38 years ago...!!! the seems are going to be pointed all 2-3cm not entirely welded. a point here, then one on the other side and so long..!! very carefully
my friend, an automotive engineer, is helping me and shows me how it works..
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cool, some new threads about turbo engines..! keep it going! i am gonna do the same on this car..!
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this weekend i started to disasemble my spare engine...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/02032008.jpg)
found an interesting looking clutch... ??
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/01032008.jpg)
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does anybody relocated his engine? some shorter enginemounts? not like on the picture below,but similar???
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/untitledjj.jpg)
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To lower engine is not a problem, dry sump is a problem :)
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yes i was thinking on the oilpan..!drysump will be a must for the racecar..and the ground clearance..
does anybody know a manufacturer who makes drysump-pans for the m42? or complete systems?
if not i have to do that on my own..
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Our sum is olmost dry, you should cut front part and with welding close the hole.. In thread about itb there was link to US company which have dry sump set for M42.
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yep..i found it!!! but a lot of money... for a piece of metal with two holes...!!
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Our sum is olmost dry, you should cut front part and with welding close the hole.. In thread about itb there was link to US company which have dry sump set for M42.
can you make a drawing of your idea???
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I am also interested about the engine mounts. How much work does it take to relocate the engine like this?
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does anybody have a atl or another brand of fuelcell in his trunk??
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Well don't know if you know about this already but there are 3 levels of rollcages. I can't remeber the specifics of it but basically the 1st level is your roll protection which is your half cages and roll bars.
2nd is impact protection which is your full cage. 3rd is what i think you want structular ridge cage. Which offers all the above plus stregthens the car.
you can tell them apart from the rest cos they have the sheet metal between joints that have holes in it it was on the picture of the Astra.
Apparently you really need to get an engineer to look over the car and design up a cage for you its expensive, but it dose improve your handling alot.
Also if you go down this path you shouldn't have to worrie about decreasing the strength in the body with rewelding the sheet metal to the body.
Hope i havn't repeated and that this helps
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i will weld the street car first, because there is only a bolt in rollcage... for the racecar i am planning a 10 or more point rollcage welded in. i am gonna weld there too, because i will remove a lot of sheet metal from the chassis..
i dont need an engineer.. i have a racecar builder who can help me if really necessary.. but thanks anyway
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i dissassembled the spareengine for my S42-2Liter-Turbo engine project...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00795.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00796.jpg)
it was an old engine...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00805.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00804.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00799.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00787.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00801.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00800.jpg)
how do you clean combustion cambers like that??
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyUu83LH_68&feature=related
thats exactly how my car is gonna look like.. ;-)
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:cool: Wow! I have never seen fenders like that on an e30. They look amazing. Looking forward to following your project's development. Please post lots of pics.
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(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00800.jpg)
how do you clean combustion cambers like that??
Disassemble head, tape off water holes, and bead blast. I do this everyday at work (part time engine builder).
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thanks!!
i found some interesting things... 2 different types of pistons.. does anybody have some infos about the different pistons in the m42b18 engines?? i have got 4 and 4...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00812.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00813.jpg)
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(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00814.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00815.jpg)
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(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00818.jpg)
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the E30 and e36 m42 pistons are differents! same bore, same compression height, but different combustion chamber volume...
all sizes are in mm.
KH=compression height
VT=valve recess depth
MT=combustion chamber depth
Mdiam=combustion chamber diameter
GL= total lenght
here are 318is E30 piston specs:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/M4xspecs/e30318ispistons.jpg)
here are 318is E36 last M42 piston specs:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/nuvolarossa/M4xspecs/e36318ispistonsm42.jpg)
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ok. but the above pistons are both from 318is e30 cars!! not e36! one is 89' and the other 90'...
but thanks anyway for the "mahle" pics and infos
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So I can't help! :) on my ETK the 318is e30 '89 and 90 and '91 have always same code of pistons, even in Europe and USA :)
good luck!
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I have E36 M42 (post summer 1992) piston in my hand and it is kind of mix between those E30 pistons. It is very close to piston on left but it does have small piston skirt cutout similar to the one on left.
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the only difference i can see is the lower part of the piston...?! the rest seems to be the same..
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shopping victim...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/28032008007.jpg)
YEEHA...
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(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg19/swiss318is/DSC00553.jpg)
my new brake system