M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Swaps, Turbos, Buildups => Topic started by: HaNasich on December 15, 2007, 10:47:46 AM
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So today i started my M40 to M42 conversion.
what i thought that should not take more than a couple of day turned to require some more learning and fittings than i thought.
The DISA and generally newer M42 turned to have a lot more advanced management system than the E30 M42.
when i compared the engine harnesses it looked like the M42 is one step above the M40 but the later DISA M42 is a huge step from the M42.
The engine is a 1996 E36 from Japan. i got it yesterday and i started today by taking the intake off, to make sure that the M42 harness i have wil fit to the engine.
As far as for the electrical part - the main differences from the older M42 are the variable length intake and the Coils system.
the coils on the later M42 are four-in-one type with a round connected (5 pins type) while on the earlier model the engine has four separate coils - this will require me to get an older coil pack or to convert my current harness to work with the four-in-one coil i now have.
the other difference - and apparently the more crucial one is the variable length intake mani.
this system works with conjunction of the engine management (electrical) and vacuum hoses from the intake (mechanical)
now while on the mechanical side all issues are bearable, the older M42 harness and ECU simply does not support this part.
current status of the conversion is that im learning - what should go where, and once i got all the info i will get on with the conversion and will update some more pics and info.
So here are some pics and info:
The Engine:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/IMG_5558.jpg)
Automatic Flywheel (Any1 interested?)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/IMG_5631.jpg)
Some sensors: Note that the yellow circled ones are and Knock sensors (can i plug them to the E30 M42 harness? ECU?) the red and green connectors come from the camshaft and engine location sensors)
- any ideas what the blue and black one stands for?
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/sesors.jpg)
The vacuum / electro parts of the variable length intake: (also - can i connect those to the M42 E30 harness / ECU?)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/IMG_5609g.jpg)
To be continued
Ron.
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Th blue sensor is for the ECU water temp and the black one is for your instrument cluster temp gauge.
By the looks if them i think your knock sensors are toast. Measure them.
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just use some m42 e36 wiring and ecu or forget disa and knock sensors and beleve me DISA make a Diferrent!!
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just use some m42 e36 wiring and ecu or forget disa and knock sensors and beleve me DISA make a Diferrent!!
can u tell about the difference between the harnesses of the non-DISA and the DISA engine harness's?
Ron.
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first off good luck with the project. hope it works out for you. ive been wondering if this was a simple swap myself..
but there may be another problem. if you use the ecu from the newer m43, youll most likely need another o2 sensor after the cat to accomodate the obd2 system. just a thought...
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So...
been looking and comparing electrical scheme's of the 1991 M42 E30, 1993 M42 DISA E36:
Engine harness's are almost identical, main difference are fuel injector control pins in the ECU's are oposite (on the E30:pin 32 in ECU stands for cylinders 2 and 4, pin 3 for cylinders 1 and 3, on the E36 ECU its the other way around) and offcourse - the use of pins:
11 - transmission control module
15 - knock sensor for cyl 1-2
18 - air intake changeover valve (DISA control ?)
28 - Ground for some sensors
42 - knock sensor for cyl 3-4
48 - A/C cut-out control
64 - Ignition timing intervention
65 - Drive range P/N
81 - Drive-away protection signal (code)
that are not in use in the E30 M42 non-DISA ECU.
now, adding the wires to my current E30 M42 harness should not be a problem, yet, i need some help finding out the use of the pins i mentioned above in order to connect the properly.
furthermore - pins 11 and 64 connects to the EGS / Transmission control module which i have no idead what that is...
and the best thing - Does this model has any EWS / EMS issues i should be aware of? i'd hate doing all that work to find out that the car wont start coz i lack the ECU code or some security module.... (im talking about the Motronic 1.7.2 from a 1993-1994 car)
Ron.
-ps, since im going to go DASC after the engine is in place, i really dont mind living with for a while without DISA letting the engine work all time with the shorter runner, but from that specific reason i want the knock sensors to work - and they are the reason for all that hassle-
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The trannie control module is for the auto gearbox.
Also, measure the knock sensors on the engine, i see their plastic cases are in bits...
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The trannie control module is for the auto gearbox.
Also, measure the knock sensors on the engine, i see their plastic cases are in bits...
Hi Vladi,
so according to you i can skip the wiring that are related to the EGS / Transmission control module.
what about any security or protection i might come across? is the 1993 E36 ECU (Motronic 1.7.2) support any security and will give me a hard time bypassing it?
The knock sensors will be replaced - they're in a horribly condition, one of them is broken and the other one has its wires ripped...
Ron.
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Hey!we have the same engine swap happening man(and from japan too....auto box too!better change the knock sensors while you can.and yes u will run into ews issue.if u have a complete half cut then u are set, look fir the antenna on the ignition key(plus Key), a box under the dash with a silver body and a yellow top.
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Hey!we have the same engine swap happening man(and from japan too....auto box too!better change the knock sensors while you can.and yes u will run into ews issue.if u have a complete half cut then u are set, look fir the antenna on the ignition key(plus Key), a box under the dash with a silver body and a yellow top.
Great to here it :)
do u have more details about those engines?
did the clutch swap went OK?
im thinking about skipping the whole EWS, i have no half-cut but an E30 M42 harness, and i can get an E36 ECU, but that would be it, no antenna or key-ring...
Ron.
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Engine harness's are almost identical, main difference are fuel injector control pins in the ECU's are oposite (on the E30:pin 32 in ECU stands for cylinders 2 and 4, pin 3 for cylinders 1 and 3, on the E36 ECU its the other way around) and offcourse - the use of pins:
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May I ask where you did find the info for this?
Because I have put a E30 M42 i my car, it has knock sensors from a E36 M42 and then I have cutted up a E36 wiring harness to get the wiring for the knock sensors, so far so good....
But then I heard about the difference in the injector control pins, but havent gotten any useful info on his.
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May I ask where you did find the info for this?
Because I have put a E30 M42 i my car, it has knock sensors from a E36 M42 and then I have cutted up a E36 wiring harness to get the wiring for the knock sensors, so far so good....
But then I heard about the difference in the injector control pins, but havent gotten any useful info on his.
So you just added the wires to the knock sensors and used a newer ECU? what ECU did u use? from what model?
can you write up the serial number?
My conclusion came from comparing the E30 wiring diagrams and the wiring index of the E36 ECU (Below) :
E30:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E30%20M42%20wiring%20diagrams/injectione301.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E30%20M42%20wiring%20diagrams/injectione302.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E30%20M42%20wiring%20diagrams/injectione303.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E30%20M42%20wiring%20diagrams/injectione304.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E30%20M42%20wiring%20diagrams/injectione305.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E30%20M42%20wiring%20diagrams/injectione306.gif)
and E36 Wiring Index:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E36%20M42%20Wiring%20index/injectione361.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E36%20M42%20Wiring%20index/injectione362.gif)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E36%20M42%20Wiring%20index/injectione363.gif)
BTW - i verifed the whole thing - and the wire number's are acurate.
Ron.
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its a mess don't mess with wiring i have already modify a m43 wiring for my m44 engine and it was really a PITA (identical engine wiring) the pinout it is completely different just drop an m42 wiring, m40 wiring does not have wires for DISA solinoids and knock sensors the tps wires IAC are too sort it have not support for cranksensor and cam sensors and m42 wiring it is a plug an play with the rest wiring you have just to plug the socket near the fusebox
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The box is from a E36 318iS 9/1992 Bosch number is 0 261 200 950 BMW part no 1739679. It has been tried on the engine and it will run with this box, but of course the injector timing is not correct until some changes has been made in the wiring.
About the knock sensors I simply cutted up the E36 wiring harness and pulled the wires for the sensors, clicked the pins in posistion 15 and 42 in the ECU connector.
Heres a layout of the E36 wiring, all I needed was a layout of the E30 to be sure, havent been able to find one official from BMW, thanks!
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9388/e36dme172kp5.gif)
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So i continue,
despite already buying a coil pack and O2 sensor prior to buying the engine, the engine came with a E36 new coil pack (round one plug instead of four square ones)
looking at the electrical schemes showed that i can convert my 4 wire coil plugs to one round plug as in the newer coil.
so here' the round plug came with the cutted harness of my engine:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/E36%20M42%20Engine/IMG_5735.jpg)
later on today i will upload the images for wiring up the E30 M42 engine harness to fit this plug.
Ron.
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m40 gearbox and flywheel swap to e36m42 no sweat coz everything bolts up direct.
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So, after some long delay, here's the rest of the project
AS I left last update – it was in the middle of updating the engine harness, originally from a 1990 IS for adopting the 1994 and on coil pack which uses one piece coilpack that contains the 4 coils instead of four separate coils.
So first u have to mark the coil wires coming from the engine harness, than cut up each connector to reveal the wires themselves.
The system I built so each coil gets a steady +, a steady – and a signal from the DME to spark each one at its correct timing.
Here's the engine harness side after cutting and marking the wires:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/Engine%20Swap/4%20to%201%20coilpack/IMG_5736.jpg)
You can see the brown and green wires that are folded to the back of the bundle – these are the + and – as they are shared for all the coils in the new connecter, the only wires that are really separated and insolated are the command wires
Here are the command wires ready for soldering:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/Engine%20Swap/4%20to%201%20coilpack/IMG_5744.jpg)
On the new plug side the situation is the same:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/Engine%20Swap/4%20to%201%20coilpack/IMG_5744.jpg)
And
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/Engine%20Swap/4%20to%201%20coilpack/IMG_5754.jpg)
And this is how it looks like after initial soldering…
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/Ron1999/Engine%20Swap/4%20to%201%20coilpack/IMG_5756.jpg)
than we sould solder the green to green and brown to brown - to have the - and + for the spark's running and than wraping and insolating the wires is actually the most important part…
And that’s it – we're ready to use new coil-pack model
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need help on how to wire back the m42 temp sensor to the m40 gauge cluster,and also the tachometer....HELP!!!!pics please!
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need help on how to wire back the m42 temp sensor to the m40 gauge cluster,and also the tachometer....HELP!!!!pics please!
send me a pm - i can help you with that
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http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e30convpins.html
HANASICH..would this be useful to me??
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http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e30convpins.html
HANASICH..would this be useful to me??
im not sure, this should work with the M50 / M52 engines.
im not sure if the M40 / M42 harness's goes the same way.
i will try to find the schematics and upload it here soon.
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Hey guys.
If I had a jap M42 and wish to swap it into my M40 318i, would it be possible to use everything else from an e36 318i(m42 ZA spec)? The ecu, harnes, key and transponder (to keep ews) everything, the question i have is would my guage cluster work i.e. temp and tacho. I will be posting this same q in the other similar thread. Thank you
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like i did, you will have to adapt that original harness to the C101 connector so that the gauge cluster will work.
in addition, im not certain how a E36 EWS system will work in with a E30 cluster, as i remember that the EWS has also something ot do with the display.
best thing to do is to use <1994 ECU and harness along with any year M42 engine
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why not just get an E30 M42 harness then just do whatever u need to do with the C101?
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Please forgive me if I'm hi-jacking, its just that there aint alota info on M42 swaps.
The South African spec E30's never came with an M42 so I'm forced to use the E36 harness.
I don't understand why more people won't swap M42's into there M40 powered 316i and 318i's.
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Here in Israel, M42 E30 was never sold officialy.
beside one or two cars brought by tourists, no M42 E30 are available, neither the oficial BMW dealer will agree to provide parts / service to those cars
so basically, we shared the same problem.
my way to solve this issue was to use E30 M42 harness and modify its C101 connector.
another friend to whom i've helped swapping an M42 in used and E36 harness, but pre 1994, earning the DISA system along with stock knocking sensors (which is great if you want to boost your engine)
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Is it possible to keep the aircon and power steering? It gets very hot here in summer so I need an AC, the ladies like that anyway too so I'd be happy if I can.
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Anyone got any detailed information on using an e36 loom for an e30 m42 swap?
Im seriously considering doing the exact same swap.
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it is totally possible to use E36 M42 loom, but make sure it is pre 1996 one, as the EWS become standard in 1996, adding another level of complexity to the swap.
basically, you everything should plug in ok, the only differences is the EGR that E36 supports and E30 doesnt, plus - you may also need to do more accurate E30 to E36 routing of the electrical lines in order to connect the C101 conector ok.
i think al of this is covered here in M42club...
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Ive looked but can't seem to find. So if i got a 1995 engine loom and ecu it would be pretty straight forward with everything like the wiring?
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I can write a small guide if anyone is still interested?
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i recently did an m42 swap to an m40b16 engined e30,
everything works good,
except im stuck in AC idle bump,
couldnt figure out wire, as i checked the WDS e30 and e36 have a totally different way of doing the ac idle bump, plus theres an AC compressor cut off in E36 M42
any idea on this
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ok my swap is complete i can say like upto 90%
i currently have only 2 issues left
1. like week after the swap instrument cluster rpm and fuel consumption needles started to work erratic (tried to a different instrument cluster from a another m40 still the same issue)
2. when i connect the icom it doesnt detected, so i dont have any diagnostic capabilities