M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS

DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: Jtuner on December 02, 2007, 09:41:13 AM

Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Jtuner on December 02, 2007, 09:41:13 AM
SO,, when I got my m42, it had a horrible rapping/chatter/rattle.. I searched the forums, read up a little bit and figured out it was my timing chain tensioner.. I order the tensioner and r&r it.. the rapping sound went away, but chatter/rattle still existed from 2k-3.2k... I was then told it was my chain guide rails.. SO about 6 months later i finally get to change them, which brings us to yesterday...  I got everything done, rails are sitting nice, everything is in time, so I reassmble and put coolant in it etc... It sounds WORSE than before!! the chatter/rattle is STILL there, but now it starts at like 1500rpm.........
So needless to say I'm pretty pissed because that was a bit of a job to do... Does anyone know WTF is going on here? could the tensioner have gone bad from being with the old worn rails? What about the idler pulley in there? it seemed a little worn when I spun it, but I didn't think it was make a sound like that....
ANY suggestions would help a ton! As it goes, I put a new Tstat in the damn thing yesterday and the bastard won't open up when I try bleeding the system.... *sigh*.. I just spent 5 hours on my car for it to work worse than before! lol thanks ya'll
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Jtuner on December 02, 2007, 09:42:58 AM
oh yeah, the main driver side rail (the one that you have to take the chain out to replace) had an adjustment screw on the top mounting point.. I didn't really know what to do with this, so I just adjusted it with a flat screwdriver until the rail sat evenly all the way down..? it was just my best guess,, could this be doing it?
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Febi Guibo on December 02, 2007, 10:00:47 AM
where are you on long island?
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: gearheadE30 on December 02, 2007, 11:36:08 AM
Well, I thing that the adjustable rail should be pressing up evenly against the chain. If yours isn't (its hard to tell w/o pics) that's a possibility. Also, did you replace the chain or the gears? If you just did one or the other, that might do it. I replaced everything in the whole timing system and there is still a little bit of a deisel-ish sound when it is really cold, but I'm beginning to think that a little bit of a rattle is just normal vehicle operation.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: sheepdog on December 02, 2007, 11:37:22 AM
Whoever said the rails has it backwards.
You needed a chain and sprockets. Rails will help keep it quiet, but if the chain is slapping around, it will always make noise no matter what it rubs.

Unfortunately, while just a guess, I would say within the next 5-10k expect things to go south unless you do this. A few of us have gone through this.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: DZick on December 02, 2007, 12:20:23 PM
I agree with Doug (sheepdog) on this one...

I just did my whole thing minus new timing sprockets and it sounds great! but depending on the wear of the sprockets (mine looked almost like new) you might want to change them.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Jtuner on December 02, 2007, 01:44:12 PM
well I guess I'll have to go there next.. Its allright I suppose since I'll know exactly what to do this time around LOL That was a learning experience to say the least.. A bit of advise,, don't use an air ratchet to tighten the small 10mm head bolts that hold the cover on... 4 words, tap, blow, helicoil, repeat :(

When I got back to the shop today, I rebled the system and everything worked just fine! The car seems to even stay a bit cooler now! :D

Febi, I'm in the huntington area,, I live in East Northport and work at Audi of Huntington,, just started my first tech job there :) where you at? I remember watching a video about a certain badass m42 stroker you put together :D :D
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Jtuner on December 02, 2007, 01:45:19 PM
Thank you everyone for your quick replies btw!
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Febi Guibo on December 02, 2007, 01:55:38 PM
I'm in Bay Shore... denis and i can come look at your car if you want... i'm starting a new project also...
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: bmwpower on December 02, 2007, 02:48:11 PM
Don't replace just the sprockets or just the chain.  They need to be replaced all at the same time.  Each components wears to the others.  If you replace one, you will quickly wear out the new component.

The guides could be replaced separately, though.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Jtuner on December 02, 2007, 07:14:29 PM
Febi that would rock! I've worked on my car, but I'm seriously inexperienced with this engine.. It'd be nice to have someone with a bit more experience check it out and see if the noise is just normal... Let me know when you're free!
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: sheepdog on December 02, 2007, 07:24:05 PM
Quote from: bmwpower;38761
Don't replace just the sprockets or just the chain.  They need to be replaced all at the same time.  Each components wears to the others.  If you replace one, you will quickly wear out the new component.

The guides could be replaced separately, though.


True.
However, the cam sprockets are sometimes in decent enough shape, post a pic, I can tell you if that is the case, the others forget it, they are so small they wear fast. Keep in mind the amount you save is really not worth leaving them anyhow.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: bmwpower on December 03, 2007, 08:51:13 AM
Quote from: sheepdog;38779
True.
However, the cam sprockets are sometimes in decent enough shape, post a pic, I can tell you if that is the case, the others forget it, they are so small they wear fast. Keep in mind the amount you save is really not worth leaving them anyhow.


Mine has 98k and they look new, but I've got the engine out of the car to do other things, so I may replace everything.





...yikes! I just priced the parts out...$600 to replace all the guides, chain and gears!  I didn't think it was that much.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: sheepdog on December 03, 2007, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: bmwpower;38805
Mine has 98k and they look new, but I've got the engine out of the car to do other things, so I may replace everything.





...yikes! I just priced the parts out...$600 to replace all the guides, chain and gears!  I didn't think it was that much.


Where did you get the prices from? Real-OEM?
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: bmwpower on December 03, 2007, 07:04:36 PM
Quote from: sheepdog;38832
Where did you get the prices from? Real-OEM?


Yea, actually.  Just got a qoute from BMA.  Need to tally things.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: gearheadE30 on December 04, 2007, 04:19:15 PM
I got all of my parts from Pelican, and they had great prices. All said and done with new everything was still under $400.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: sheepdog on December 05, 2007, 12:15:10 PM
Quote from: bmwpower;38840
Yea, actually.  Just got a qoute from BMA.  Need to tally things.


Timing chain parts are way overpriced on there, however, other parts can often be underpriced.

Real-oem is good for a very rough estimate and part numbers only.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: jpod999 on December 05, 2007, 05:01:43 PM
I think I need to do my timing chain.  226.5k miles and I don't know the last time it was done.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: hoevesruperd on December 05, 2007, 08:33:13 PM
Quote from: jpod999;38964
I think I need to do my timing chain.  226.5k miles and I don't know the last time it was done.


me as well... i get that diesel sound which makes me pretty nervous, since the car is no running often while its winter i'll do that in warmer days. does anyone have a good DIY about this? or is it pretty simple anyways?
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Jak318 on December 05, 2007, 09:21:53 PM
Im not sure on the policy here for posting links to other boards but here is my experience with TC replacement.  

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=96062 (http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=96062)
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: jpod999 on December 05, 2007, 11:13:45 PM
Quote from: Jak318;38981
Im not sure on the policy here for posting links to other boards but here is my experience with TC replacement.  

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=96062 (http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=96062)


My feelings on posting links to other boards is that if there is good info at the other place, go for it.  I would rather read and learn than stick to one place and not learn as much.  

That link as an example, I had no idea what a new sprocket looks like and what a used one can look like.  Thanks for posting that up.

BTW, is (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3241/85958092pi8.jpg) the thing i put the square around the tensioner?
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: strad on December 05, 2007, 11:21:10 PM
^^^ yes, and the thing it pushes on is called the tensioner rail.
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: Febi Guibo on December 06, 2007, 03:31:50 AM
Quote from: hoevesruperd;38979
me as well... i get that diesel sound which makes me pretty nervous, since the car is no running often while its winter i'll do that in warmer days. does anyone have a good DIY about this? or is it pretty simple anyways?


http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/318istimingchain.html
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: hoevesruperd on December 06, 2007, 09:19:59 AM
Quote from: Febi Guibo;39005
http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/318istimingchain.html


thanks!
i've also heard there was a major problem with the OEM profile gasket,
what gasket do you guys use?

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/engine/all_m42_profile_gasket_faq.html
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: DaveM-sport on December 06, 2007, 12:09:49 PM
BMW recalled most 318iS' to change the inner profile gasket when th problem arose afaik.

If your engine is still going after 15-17 years you should be safe that it has been replaced.


On the timing chain though...

Whatever you do, don't skimp on it by only replacing th chain.
If your opening the engine at all, do it properly by replacing the lot saving time on doing it again and at least you'll be guaranteed it'll be good for another 100K+ miles
Title: Chain chatter/rattle STILL.....
Post by: hoevesruperd on December 06, 2007, 01:28:52 PM
Quote from: DaveM-sport;39024
BMW recalled most 318iS' to change the inner profile gasket when th problem arose afaik.

If your engine is still going after 15-17 years you should be safe that it has been replaced.


On the timing chain though...

Whatever you do, don't skimp on it by only replacing th chain.
If your opening the engine at all, do it properly by replacing the lot saving time on doing it again and at least you'll be guaranteed it'll be good for another 100K+ miles


thanks, i want to do a proper job, the car has to be good for another few years. so i'm saving money, which is not easy while in university.