M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
FAQ / REFERENCE => M42 Reference => Topic started by: RIPDOTCOM on November 24, 2007, 07:29:56 AM
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Picked up a 91 318 2 days ago. Had a bad fuel pump but the previous owner pulled apart the IAC system and any hoses that go to the intake boot as well as the pcv hose. I can tell you where everything goes on an M20 with my eyes closed but this is my first M42. Does anyone have a basic diagram showing how the system is plummed up? If you have a pic send it to ripdotcom@comcast.net or post a link here. Also , if there is anything not required to be hooked up please note it.
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Do a search. It has been covered many times. I think D Clay posted a good drawing recently.
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Grossly simplistic, but. . . valve cover breather connects to throttle body, and icv connects to intake air boot -- and there's a whole mess of other things in between! :)
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From the stolen file...................Hope it helps
good luck
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)
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(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)
I would love to have 5 minutes of one on one time with an aluminum bat and the person that designed that crap.
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I would love to have 5 minutes of one on one time with an aluminum bat and the person that designed that crap.
Some people say it's simplistic .:eek:
" I dunno about that"
Once again , gl
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It's been so long that I forgot where I found that image.
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Some people say it's simplistic .:eek:
" I dunno about that"
Once again , gl
I didn't mean the system was simple lol. Just my explanation of it.
It is actually really simple -- BMW just used about 10 too many parts to put it together lol.
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Why does the crankcase ventilation or the idle air need to be preheated with coolant? Who the hell thought that was a good idea? I'm surprised they didn't preheat the preheat. On a volvo for example that whole preheat mess is contained in 1 component. In the intake to the airbox there is a trap door that rotates between cold air from the grill (on th left) and hot air from near the exhaust manifold (right). It tries to maintain a minimum 70f intake temp.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2250/2045568968_598dc6f8d5.jpg)
Mind you its not perfect either. After 10 years or so the thermostat always fails on the hot air side so most of the old non turbo volvos you see driving around are actually sucking down 180f intake air through a straw. And people wonder why volvos are slow. But at least it can be fixed with some pliers and ball of aluminum foil.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/2044777539_8d9dd44d7d.jpg?v=0)
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I did a search after I posted (a little overzealous) anyway, capped the 2 ports and re routed the pcv and IAC. Runs rough but its getting there.
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Well, I like to improve/simplify things so here are the thoughts going through my head:
Things that need to connect to the vacuum port behind the throttle:
1. Fuel pressure regulator, to compensate for intake vacuum
2. Idle air control valve, for a faster idle during warm-up
3. Crankcase vent, to create a vacuum in crankcase/burn vapors
So why not do this? Any thoughts or opinions?
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/proposedsetupsm.jpg)
as opposed to this mess
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)
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Yeah my engine is in pieces right now. An answer to this would be great before I put it all back together again...
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Yeah my engine is in pieces right now. An answer to this would be great before I put it all back together again...
I wish I had my 318is right now, but unfortunately I won't have easy access to it for the next few months so I can't experiment and give you a straight answer right now.:(
The concept of everything is pretty simple as shown in my diagram that needed only 3 lines. BMW just made things more complex by adding additional tubing to preheat various things with the coolant and so on. In general, the factory setup and routing of vacuum lines is the safest route to follow at this time.
Hopefully in the future I could test the other options and have a clear response.
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The idle control valve needs to connect before the throttle, the other two need vacuum.
That's what the barb on the intake tube is for.
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The idle control valve needs to connect before the throttle, the other two need vacuum.
That's what the barb on the intake tube is for.
Ahh, I was initially kinda confused by that statement but understand it now. The confusion/problem is just from the not so good drawings, so I've decided to redo them. I appreciate the input, thanks.
RED: Intake Boot to Idle Air Control Input
GREEN: Idle Air Control Output to Throttle Body Vacuum Port
BLUE: Engine Vent to Throttle Body Vacuum Port
YELLOW: Fuel Pressure Regulator to Throttle Body Vacuum Port
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/proposedsetuprevision1b.jpg)
Any problems or confusions with this setup?
And, which ports specifically on the throttle body have vacuum and which don't(if any)?
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NEW PROPOSED ROUTING BY mkodama:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/proposedsetuprevision1b.jpg)
ORIGINAL BMW ROUTING:
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)
Hmmm... very interesting! I'm also wondering if this could be another possible "delete" mod and how it would work?
What someone should do too (especially those of you creative w/ CAD or Photoshop) - use the one of the above diagrams and do the common M42 "hose delete" under the intake THEN add in the proposed new vacuum routing, so we can see what it would really look like. I think some of the hoses and related parts in the original BMW diagram above are already deleted when the M42 hose delete mod is accomplished....
mkodama - just curious, have you attempted it?
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NEW PROPOSED ROUTING BY mkodama:
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/proposedsetuprevision1b.jpg
ORIGINAL BMW ROUTING:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg
Hmmm... very interesting! I'm also wondering if this could be another possible "delete" mod and how it would work?
What someone should do too (especially those of you creative w/ CAD or Photoshop) - use the one of the above diagrams and do the common M42 "hose delete" under the intake THEN add in the proposed new vacuum routing, so we can see what it would really look like. I think some of the hoses and related parts in the original BMW diagram above are already deleted when the M42 hose delete mod is accomplished....
mkodama - just curious, have you attempted it?
I'm confused about what specifically you are suggesting by "adding" the new vacuum routing to the hose delete.
The picture that I made doesn't utilize the cooling system like the stock setup. In my version, I erased a few things like that throttle body heater and some of the tubing that would normally attach to the idle control valve.
And just in case you want to see, here is the coolant hose delete that goes along with the vacuum line delete. It removes the crankcase vent post-heating, and throttle body heater.
stock:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/stocksetup.jpg)
my version:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/proposesedsetup.jpg)
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Are you going to cap off the nipples from the head and the plastic outlet pipe? Or run a bypass hose?
Can the vacuum hoses that are still needed, be supported by only one source outlet?
Would the fluctuation caused by the ICV movement cause problems with the FPR vacuum needs. Maybe there is a reason the ICV hose hooks up further upstream than the other 2 hoses.
I don't see what is gained by re-locating the source for these 3 hoses.
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Are you going to cap off the nipples from the head and the plastic outlet pipe? Or run a bypass hose?
Can the vacuum hoses that are still needed, be supported by only one source outlet?
Would the fluctuation caused by the ICV movement cause problems with the FPR vacuum needs. Maybe there is a reason the ICV hose hooks up further upstream than the other 2 hoses.
I don't see what is gained by re-locating the source for these 3 hoses.
All very good questions and points.
-The nipples on the head and the plastic pipe can be done either way. It has been shown that it is not necessary for coolant to flow out of the nipple on the side of the cylinder head so it can simply be capped off. Alternatively, bypassing from the output on the head to the plastic pipe also works.
-Concerning vacuum fluctuations and which vacuum ports each line should connect to, I simply just don't know how many vacuum connections there are on the throttle body and which are used for each purpose. If I had my car in hand(or even a good picture), I would be able to draw a much more precise routing. The fuel pressure regulator should probably be connected to a different source than the other two.
-I was never trying to change the source of the vacuum lines, just the complicated mess between the source and whatever device that needed vacuum.
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-The nipples on the head and the plastic pipe can be done either way. It has been shown that it is not necessary for coolant to flow out of the nipple on the side of the cylinder head so it can simply be capped off. Alternatively, bypassing from the output on the head to the plastic pipe also works.
I just did this and was going for the bypass option but changed my mind.
The water outlet at the head (#12 on the drawing) is 3/8 hose (or metric equiv.) and the inlet at the plastic pipe (#20 on drawing) is 5/8 hose. I could not find a quality 3/8 to 5/8 hose barb so I went with the capoff option. been driving every day with no problems.
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I just did this and was going for the bypass option but changed my mind.
The water outlet at the head (#12 on the drawing) is 3/8 hose (or metric equiv.) and the inlet at the plastic pipe (#20 on drawing) is 5/8 hose. I could not find a quality 3/8 to 5/8 hose barb so I went with the capoff option. been driving every day with no problems.
This is the point I am at right now in the coolant hose delete mod. I am still trying to figure out which route would best.
Typically our summers aren't too hot. But on occasion we will get a week or two of 40+ degree humid as hell weather...
But just like you said I couldn't find a good fitting to make the splice with. I even went to a hydraulic hose shop and their idea for an adapter would measure out to atleast 4-5" long...
I may just end up capping off the hose barbs.
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This is the point I am at right now in the coolant hose delete mod. I am still trying to figure out which route would best.
Typically our summers aren't too hot. But on occasion we will get a week or two of 40+ degree humid as hell weather...
But just like you said I couldn't find a good fitting to make the splice with. I even went to a hydraulic hose shop and their idea for an adapter would measure out to atleast 4-5" long...
I may just end up capping off the hose barbs.
Yeah, if you want, I could find the posts of other people that have capped this nipple off and had no problems and even gave an update a few months later.
If that is not enough proof for you, a member of bimmerforums.com did a stroker kit on his M42 so he had about 2.1 liters of displacement and 11.6:1 compression ratio. He also had performance software and I think a higher redline and he never had a single problem either. I think he just put a bolt in the nipple and welded it or something simple like that.
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I've noticed a while ago... I have no throttle body heater! :|
I'm going to install my cleaned injectors in a few weeks and will check then how it looks under the inlet, will take some pics also, I'm keen to know how it looks, my other M42 does have the throttle body heater.
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I've noticed a while ago... I have no throttle body heater! :|
I'm going to install my cleaned injectors in a few weeks and will check then how it looks under the inlet, will take some pics also, I'm keen to know how it looks, my other M42 does have the throttle body heater.
Yeah, it was an emissions requirement thing to my knowledge, and also prevented ice forming which could freeze the idle control valve open causing the idle to stay really high.
Just out of curiosity, what year and model is the car without the throttle body heater?
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it's a European (Belgian) 318is from september 1990.
The other Is'es I've seen over here are with throttle body heather. I'm really curious about the routing of the cooling tubes. First I want to know if the car came this way from the factory or it happened on a certain point in it's life
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Yeah, if you look in the BMW ETK, it shows an option for both a non heated and heated throttle body. I wonder what determines whether the car gets a throttle heather or not.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/Picture2-5.png)
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Yeah I ran a bypass, but I wish I didn't...
It didn't turn out as nice as I planned it to be. The adapter I had to use was too long, and the bends that hoses had to do made them kink. So I am going to cap them off after I get the car safetied, and E-tested. Not because I think a mechanic will freak out if those nipples are capped off, but because I don't want to tear the intake apart again.... hahaha.
Does anyone know of a good place to order pipe caps from??
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Yeah, it was an emissions requirement thing to my knowledge, and also prevented ice forming which could freeze the idle control valve open causing the idle to stay really high.
Just out of curiosity, what year and model is the car without the throttle body heater?
It appears my 91 M42 does not have the throttle body heater plate, but the cooling hoses still route through the bottom of my throttle body itself. :cool:
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From the stolen file...................Hope it helps
good luck
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/bogeyman700/318is-hose-nightmare.jpg)
Since this image has disappeared (grrrr), here it is from my Flickr account:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5294/5496902419_5315d39e72_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blalor/5496902419/)
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I'm confused about what specifically you are suggesting by "adding" the new vacuum routing to the hose delete.
The picture that I made doesn't utilize the cooling system like the stock setup. In my version, I erased a few things like that throttle body heater and some of the tubing that would normally attach to the idle control valve.
And just in case you want to see, here is the coolant hose delete that goes along with the vacuum line delete. It removes the crankcase vent post-heating, and throttle body heater.
stock:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/stocksetup.jpg)
my version:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x115/mkodama/proposesedsetup.jpg)
Can anybody identify #17 in the stock diagram? I have no idea where to get that hose from!
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#17 is 11 15 1 739 266. You can get it at various places online, in many places it will be a URO part. But if you need to replace it I really suggest reading the mess under the intake thread and deleting a bunch of that junk under the intake.
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:) thanks so much! you just made my day