M42club.com - Home of the BMW E30/E36 318i/iS
DISCUSSION => Engine + Driveline => Topic started by: gearheadE30 on November 01, 2007, 02:18:28 PM
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I just got an electric main fan off of a 1994 volvo 840 turbo. The shoud obviously needs to be cut down to fit, but what is the best way to attach the fan to the radiator. Are the stock shroud mounts strong enough to hold the fan? I know I also need to get the aux switch from an m44 car and update the fuses, but is there anything else I need to do? Also, are shot (i.e. empty) stock fan clutches worth anything?
Jordan
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I'm not sure how the 850 shroud looks (was it an FWD 850 or RWD 940?). The 940 fan is easy enough to cut down and make fit. I just used a couple of nuts and bots on the existing top lip of the radiator. Now that I think about it I realize that I completely forgot to attach it at the bottom. OOPS! The 850 shroud is slightly different shape but I'm sure you can make it fit. The fan itself is exactly the same.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2100/1816061896_9b6d5245b8_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/1816061692_3c508ce85d_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2009/1816062066_aea8a02328_o.jpg)
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Actually, the fan I have is the exact same as that one except the shroud shape is different. Mine also has a lip that should fit into the bottom mount of the stock shroud, so that should be good. Now I just need to figure out where to get the temp switch...
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With this fan you can eliminate of electric aux fan in front of the radiator and run this fan off the existing relays. The low and high speed control are built into the fan motor (much more reliable than the bmw design) so you can just splice the wires together and it'll work. You will have to upgrade the low speed fuse to 10 or 15a and get the E36 switch.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=BE36§ion=ELgage&page=4&bookmark=24&part_number=61-31-8-361-787-M85
61-31-8-361-787-M85
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Sounds good. I already upgraded the fuse, and i think the dealer has the switch for a reasonable price (amazing, I know.) I'll be taking the OE aux fan off, but how do you get to it without removing the whole font valence? Can you just slide it out from under the car?
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I'm not sure if you can slide it out from under the car because part of the bracket holding it in place blocks it. Theres also a plastic cover that needs to be removed. I'm sure theres an easy way to get it done, I just don't know it. My solution was a bit ehhh... medieval.
(http://www.heavydutystore.com/db/thumbs/t_20963_01.jpg)
I chopped it up and took it out through the grill piece by piece. You'll be surprised how heavy it is for such a small fan. The shroud is made of cast iron. Make sure you have the Volvo fan running reliably first.
When swapping temp switch, don't worry about draining the radiator. As long as you keep the radiator cap on and the engine is completely cold, the coolant will drip out slowly.
On the volvo fan:
Green = low speed +
Red = high speed +
Black = ground
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I'm not sure if you can slide it out from under the car because part of the bracket holding it in place blocks it. Theres also a plastic cover that needs to be removed. I'm sure theres an easy way to get it done, I just don't know it. My solution was a bit ehhh... medieval.
(http://www.heavydutystore.com/db/thumbs/t_20963_01.jpg)
I chopped it up and took it out through the grill piece by piece. You'll be surprised how heavy it is for such a small fan. The shroud is made of cast iron. Make sure you have the Volvo fan running reliably first.
When swapping temp switch, don't worry about draining the radiator. As long as you keep the radiator cap on and the engine is completely cold, the coolant will drip out slowly.
On the volvo fan:
Green = low speed +
Red = high speed +
Black = ground
Hey, sorry to bring this back from the dead, but I have an m44 fan and I bought the switch that you mention above.
So here's my problem...
The temp switch has three prongs, one for high, one for low, and the other is a ground or power?
If the third one is a ground, then where does the fan get power?
Do I need to route power into each individual high/low wire?
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The 3 wires are low, high, ground. Connect the low or the high to the ground and it should turn on. Does the fan run off the existing AUX fan wiring?
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http://www.m42club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1558&d=1190689822
Wiring diagram for existing fan. It has the temp switch and relay circuits laid out. I'm currently installing an electric puller to replace the fan clutch, shroud, and blade. I'm using the 80/88 temp switch to trigger a relay for the new fan. Also using the A/C low speed circuit to trigger a relay so that the A/C fan is on high speed when the A/C is on. My main consideration is moving a lot of air over the A/C condenser for hot Texas summers.
I have a question. The temp switch in the radiator comes on at 80C. Also at 88C. When the temp reaches 88C., does the 80C. side switch off? I ask because if that is how the switch works, I would need two relays. I wouldn't want a puller fan to come on at 80C and if the temp reached 88C., turn off.
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The way these things are usually set up, is 80c relay turns on and stays on all the way through 88c. When the 88c relay is also on, it over rides the 80c automatically so the fan just speeds up at that temp.
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The 3 wires are low, high, ground. Connect the low or the high to the ground and it should turn on. Does the fan run off the existing AUX fan wiring?
Actually no...I will take some pics of whats going on in there.
The only wiring going to the switch is the wiring coming from the m44 fan.
Brown, Blue, Black Blue...
AND PICS:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2058/2057233565_b29876b836_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2058/2057233591_7cd9b96a3f_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/2058018800_8987f20ae0_o.jpg)
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pics attached.
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how easy is this to do then,
so i need one times volvo 940 fan mount it behind the rad
what else do i need do i also need a temp or coolent sensor, do i already have one ?
do i need to change it or just re wire the coolent temp to the volvo fan ?
how do i remove the fan thats on the engine what pully do i remove aswell
basicall i ned a step by step giud pretty pretty please and a shopping list
thanks guys
and hello from engand
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I'm not sure how the 850 shroud looks (was it an FWD 850 or RWD 940?). The 940 fan is easy enough to cut down and make fit. I just used a couple of nuts and bots on the existing top lip of the radiator. Now that I think about it I realize that I completely forgot to attach it at the bottom. OOPS! The 850 shroud is slightly different shape but I'm sure you can make it fit. The fan itself is exactly the same.
lets see come pictures of that valve cover and the manifold i wanna do taht how did u get the stripes was it hard
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It's not that fan a bit bigger ?And olso eats to much power and it's also too heavy ,much heavyer then your thermal clutch.From what I Know the plug for the fan it in left side somewere under de hi beam and behind the plastic cover,I mean in engine bay,and the colour are:brown =negative,Blue with black first speed and the third one it second speed
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dude8383
From what I can tell from your pics, you have the fan running directly off the temp switch which isn't ideal and potentially dangerous. The temp switch on the side of the radiator should be used to activate a relay which activates the fan. Its hard to describe in words. My suggestion would be have someone look at the car that has some electrical experience.
It's not that fan a bit bigger ?And olso eats to much power and it's also too heavy ,much heavyer then your thermal clutch.From what I Know the plug for the fan it in left side somewere under de hi beam and behind the plastic cover,I mean in engine bay,and the colour are:brown =negative,Blue with black first speed and the third one it second speed
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27468&postcount=84
lets see come pictures of that valve cover and the manifold i wanna do taht how did u get the stripes was it hard
Are you drunk?
http://www.m42club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27243&postcount=78
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Now I see ,Why didn't you used the car's electrical functions,you have everything you need,Relay for both speeds and you used that volvo relay?.I know very well that fan because even if I am a 200% BMW guy where I work ,80% I'm repairing Volvo's.
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Sorry ,now I read everything and I saw that you actually used the car's wires and relay.
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;)
The only reason I picked this fan is because I'm familiar with it. We have 3 Volvos (240 now dead, 850 and 960) in the family. I did the same swap to the 240. But there are many other fans out there that will work just as well. They probably even have the appropriate size shroud. As you mentioned, the existing BMW relays and wiring are already perfectly adapted for this electric fan conversion. Once you have an electric main fan, the aux fan becomes dead weight.
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You're right,but that way I asked if it's not too heavy, to not become a inertia weight.
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If you have A/C you need to leave the aux fan in there. It comes on with the A/C clutch. Without it, if the radiator fan isn't on, the A/C head pressure will build up. There's a high pressure shut off in the A/C system but it's still not good for it. It will gradually weaken the seals in the compressor and shorten it's life. If you don't have A/C - no problem. If you do it will not blow as cold as it should in addition to the possible damage. The A/c needs even more air than the OEM fan provides to achieve maximum cooling. As I mentioned, that's my reason for putting in an electric fan and modifying the aux fan to run on high with the A/C.
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All your concerns about the AC system are legitimate but thats the beauty of this conversion. The new puller fan does the same job as the AUX fan. Because its running off the existing relays which are still connected to the AC system, the puller fan activates with the AC system as well as the temp sensor in the radiator.
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The only problem is that the fan is not pulling (or in the case of stock, pushing) air directly through the condenser. The air will want to come in through the path of least resistance, which isn't through that radiator. Does it put too much strain on the system to wire the aux fan in parallel to the high-speed wiring of the electric main fan? If it is difficult to get the aux fan out, then might as well use it for something.
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The only problem is that the fan is not pulling (or in the case of stock, pushing) air directly through the condenser. The air will want to come in through the path of least resistance, which isn't through that radiator. Does it put too much strain on the system to wire the aux fan in parallel to the high-speed wiring of the electric main fan? If it is difficult to get the aux fan out, then might as well use it for something.
I don't know what other path the air would take other than through the condenser. Whether you push or pull the air, it doesn't matter. Having the aux fan in front of the radiator reduces the effective surface area of the condenser and radiator. I don't see any advantage to this.
The volvo fan uses a 30a peak on high speed. Not sure how much the aux fan uses but its probably in the are of 15-20a. So when you have both fans going on, you will need a 50a relay and fuse and probably replace all the wiring with something thicker. 12 or 10 gauge. I don't think its worth it. The electric puller fan more than does the job of both the aux fan and the clutch fan.
The aux fan is a pain in the ass to remove. The two options ar either remove the bumper or remove the radiator and condenser. I used some chain cutters to make minced meat out of it and remove it through the grill.
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I finally got the swap done, took me all day to finish the shroud, wire it, and do some other assorted stuff. So far, it works great. After wiring everything to use the original connectors, I discovered that the fan was spinning backwards. took a half hour to discover that the plug can be installed 2 different ways. Spun the plug around, and it works great. There are no vibrations when it is running and you can't even hear it from inside the car. Havn't gotten the aux fan out yet, but I need to remove the valence to bend it back into shape and repaint it. Havn't driven it yet because my parents parked in front of the garage :(. It looks pretty stock from the driver's side, but there is some sheet metal and bracketry on the passenger side that gives it away. Hopefully I'll be able to get pics and a driving impression up tommorrow.
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Excellent! Did you use the E36 temp switch?
Removing the aux fan is a pain. Have fun.
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Yes, I used the e36 switch. That was the easiest part of the whole project!
Anyway, here are some pics:
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/gearheadE30/IM000173.jpg)
I just soldered the new wires onto the old plug to keep the factory wiring and locations:
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/gearheadE30/IM000172.jpg)
Notice how close the fan is to the water pump shaft. Make sure you measure this before you put it all together. The engine doesn't really move forewards or backwareds, just side to side. I ended up having to offset the fan so the rear bearing carrier for the motor was above the pump shaft.
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/gearheadE30/IM000175.jpg)
Heres the done deal. All of the wiring on the passenger side is coiled under the balck cover behind the headlights now, so it looks a bit nicer.
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/gearheadE30/IM000174.jpg)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u169/gearheadE30/IM000176.jpg)
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The 850 shroud looks to be a bit thicker than the 940/960.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/2133648058_3cce69077d_o.jpg
Your auxiliary fan looks completely different from my old one.
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Yes, it is thicker. i got it for $10 though, so I figured I could always get the other shroud later if this one didn't work.
I think my aux fan is stock, although the plug has a little bit of damage from being removed at some point in the past. I guess it may have been changed. The car came from Cali, so the fan was probably running all the time.
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Mine had 5 paddle like blades and a cast iron frame. This is how it looked after i removed it with chain cutters.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2012/2133051277_d78db60693_o.jpg
Urs looks like it came out of an E36. It might be valuable on Ebay or somewhere.
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Cool, guess I won't cut it up with those chain cutters then :)