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DISCUSSION => General Topics => Topic started by: P Zero on October 10, 2007, 03:28:07 PM

Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: P Zero on October 10, 2007, 03:28:07 PM
Hi guys. This is my first post, but unfortunately it might not be a good start :(

I bought a 318is the other day with a view to stripping it out and rebuilding it as a track car. When I was on the way home after collecting it, I stopped for petrol. When I got out the sun hit the roof in a way which showed up some odd paintwork. I put it to the back of my brain and got on with the journey.

A couple of days later I started stripping out the interior, worrying I was going to find something I didn't want to...

(http://www.bitblender.com/images/e30zone/wrinkles_nearside_01.jpg)
(http://www.bitblender.com/images/e30zone/wrinkles_nearside_02.jpg)
(http://www.bitblender.com/images/e30zone/wrinkles_offside_01.jpg)
(http://www.bitblender.com/images/e30zone/wrinkles_offside_02.jpg)

I found these wrinkles and decided I needed to investigate further. I also found evidence that there may have been work done at the front of the car, perhaps a new crossmember and slam panel, etc.

Does this look like crash damage to you guys?

Thanks.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: christophbmw on October 10, 2007, 03:53:46 PM
possibly, both E30's ive owned didnt look like that. maybe a slightly twisted chassis, or someone might have overloaded it at one point in time.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: ak96ss on October 10, 2007, 04:33:46 PM
I would definitely cast my vote for crash damage. That's on both sides?  Not easy to crumple the metal there...
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: D. Clay on October 10, 2007, 06:28:23 PM
The car is put together by welding the panels, applying a white seam sealer, and then painting. When the body is crunched the seam sealer splits and shows white inside. After the panels are straightened and realigned the seam sealer is still split and only the best shops replace it if it's covered by trim. Pull the carpet and look for welded seams where the car may have been "clipped". An unwrecked rear tail section consisting of the rear quarters and any necessary inner structure is called a rear clip by the rebuilders. I'm guessing a hit from the rear as the damage is the same on each side. Just look real close at all the seams including those on the outside. There may be spray can undercoating somewhere underneath. It's possible and even more likely the car was jacked up with a floor jack right underneath the wrinkles or raised on a lift with the lift arms inside the rockers. There's some real clueless people in cheapy muffler shops, etc.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: vitesse on October 10, 2007, 06:53:11 PM
It does look a bit like crash damage...im surprised it is on both sides of the vehicle, I bet that was a hard hit if it is indeed from an accident.  Did you run a carfax before purchasing it?
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: P Zero on October 10, 2007, 07:32:48 PM
I'm based in the UK so I ran what I'm guessing is our equivalent of carfax, HPI. It came back totally clean.

I've posted a similar thread over on e30zone.net (http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=81259). Most of the members who replied are saying its more likely to be a manufacturing flaw due to the difficulty of the shape in that area and the fact it's usually hidden from view.

I've had a look around but I can't say I noticed any cracked seam sealer. I'll have a better look in the light again tomorrow.

I'm going to see a rolling shell on Saturday so I may use that as the basis for my track car and use the current car as a parts donor. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: sheepdog on October 10, 2007, 08:14:49 PM
Quote from: D. Clay;35439
I'm guessing a hit from the rear as the damage is the same on each side.
My thoughts exactly. Definite damage.

They did a good job repairing it from the looks of it.

Get a Carfax on it, I am betting this happened very early in the cars life otherwise it would have been totaled, being as such, it was probably dealer repaired back to near new condition.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: gearheadE30 on October 10, 2007, 08:33:16 PM
I would say crash damage, as my car doesn't have that. What is wierd is that the damage is roughly symmetrical.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: ducatipaso on October 12, 2007, 09:22:12 PM
I'll pitch in for crash damage from the rear too
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: D. Clay on October 12, 2007, 09:34:37 PM
Before you do anything hasty, check it out for being jacked up in those spots. I had a car once that was jacked up with a big hydraulic floor jack and it was similar damage. If that's the case the unibody is still sound. Hard to believe that there are still people that don't know what the reinforced areas of the rocker panels are for.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: P Zero on October 13, 2007, 09:24:39 AM
I went to see the other IS shell today and it has the same 'wrinkled' effect in the same area, so it must be something to do with the manufacturing process. It looks almost exactly the same.

Either way, I took the shell because its much cleaner than the one I have. I found a couple of hidden rust patches on my existing one, so I'm going to transfer the mechanicals and bin the old shell.

Thanks for all your help though. I'm guessing the US E30's were manufactured in the US and perhaps that production line didn't produce the wrinkles.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: christophbmw on October 13, 2007, 02:13:45 PM
Quote from: P Zero;35650
I went to see the other IS shell today and it has the same 'wrinkled' effect in the same area, so it must be something to do with the manufacturing process. It looks almost exactly the same.

Either way, I took the shell because its much cleaner than the one I have. I found a couple of hidden rust patches on my existing one, so I'm going to transfer the mechanicals and bin the old shell.

Thanks for all your help though. I'm guessing the US E30's were manufactured in the US and perhaps that production line didn't produce the wrinkles.

you had me wondering so i went and took a look at my car. it looks the same! its not as bad as P zero's but there is slight wrinkling, which makes me wonder if it was indeed caused from manufacturing (i only checked on side). Anybody else have this?

mine is wrinkled on the second step vertical part.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: romkasponka on October 13, 2007, 03:22:11 PM
http://romkasponka.blogspot.com/2007/09/skutam.html
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: 318iSdaniel on October 13, 2007, 07:34:29 PM
Quote from: P Zero;35650

Thanks for all your help though. I'm guessing the US E30's were manufactured in the US and perhaps that production line didn't produce the wrinkles.


weren't all E30's made in Germany?
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: P Zero on October 14, 2007, 06:03:42 AM
Quote from: 318iSdaniel;35683
weren't all E30's made in Germany?

No idea mate. If they were maybe it was something that only affected some cars.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: P Zero on October 14, 2007, 06:04:37 AM
Quote from: romkasponka;35668
http://romkasponka.blogspot.com/2007/09/skutam.html


Thanks buddy. It seems to be something thats quite normal.
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: sports.racer on October 14, 2007, 02:22:29 PM
Quote from: 318iSdaniel;35683
weren't all E30's made in Germany?


According to this they didn't break ground on the US factory until 1992.  

http://bmwusfactory.com/media_center/milestones/
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: ak96ss on October 14, 2007, 08:26:00 PM
Well, it looks like I was wrong - I went out and looked at mine and, although it is not as bad and I have sound deadener applied all over the area, it is still wrinkled a bit there.

Who'da thunk it.


[Gilda Radner Voice]
Nevermind.
[/Gilda Radner Voice]
Title: Is this crash damage?
Post by: christophbmw on October 15, 2007, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: 318iSdaniel;35683
weren't all E30's made in Germany?

you are correct (the e36 318 was made in germany also until the late '90s).